Thank you for an excellent article, Jamie! It is refreshing to see someone look at this situation with logic and objectivity without feeling the need to be a condescending jackass, as I feel some other writers have done this week.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Thank you for an excellent article, Jamie! It is refreshing to see someone look at this situation with logic and objectivity without feeling the need to be a condescending jackass, as I feel some other writers have done this week.
Yes, please don't get me wrong people - I appreciate it too.
I love what's going on with DDO... now. But yes, I'm very careful. I know _now_ it's benefitting me. But you know how democracy works - just look what happened to music...
I'm a musician and I know that this shitty music great music companies are offering now is a result of _democracy_ = maximizing income.
If the same happens to DDO, and it doesn't happen in any "bad" way now (imho), then I'll start to worry. But I'm sure some companies will serve us "fast food", and others, more niche ones, will offer us quality. Now I will stand by my opinion - Turbine offers loads of quality and continues to do so, so there' s no reason to worry... yet.
Good article Jaime ! Someone finally saying things as they are.
And to make things clear.
We're not "misinformed". We understand all too well the F2P model. We understand Lotro going "hybrid" and offering something akin to a free trial/demo. We understand that more and more games will use this type of financing form. And so we're indifferent to posts/articles/blogs trying to enlighten us with "The Truth". Go on wasting your time.
Fact is:
WE JUST DON'T LIKE F2P AND WON'T PUMP ANY MONEY ON IT
Go Figure. Simple as that. It's a matter of Free Will; it's a matter of the Consumer's Right to choose how to spend his/her money; it's a matter of we, the consumers, deciding what we want from the industry, not the other way.
And you know ? They need our money more than we need their buggier-and-dumber games. And insulting us, calling us "dinosaurs" of some sort, trying to brainwash us with tons of these "futuristic" assumptions or with various media is only costing them more and more possible customers and damaging the industry as a whole.
Because, you know, most of the suits trying to convince us that "this is the future" have the gaming experience of a potato, have no pride or dream or vision for their product and are just mercenaries oiling their dirty hands with the prospects of profits. More profits. More stock options. Whatever the cost. Whatever the lie and the dirty trick they've to play on you. It's called Greed.
Interesting how most game companies/developers and journalist seem to think F2P is the future and all excited about it where as most gamers seems to be against it. Could it be because the former is to gain from the new model where as us the customers will need to pay more to get what we currently are getting for a subscription fee?
Because that is all this F2P sham is about; for companies to charge more for pretty much the same, under the illusion that it is all free. But you are not fooling anyone...
Nice column, I quite enjoyed reading it.
This does present the tension of the market dynamic. This IS a business, and it IS about profit. But it is also about keeping ones players/customers happy. I suspect much of this hype is due to the nature of the news/business/convention cycle. Also keep in mind that conflict drives page views. The more views that a site has, the more profit potential it has.
Once one gets under all of the hype and hysteria(believe me some of the anti F2P types have much in common with other types of fanatics), its all about choices and opportunities. To me, F2P is simply another business model. Its in its application(and the abuse there of) that I some times object to.
Bottom line, if you don't like/approve of F2P, then don't play games that use that model. Market dynamics will sort these things out over time. Anyone who is paying attention, already knows that F2P aren't really free. If they aren't aware of that, then the old saying "a fool and their money are soon parted" applies. If one isn't a fool, then one doesn't have nearly as much to worry about.
Yes I have read it, and RMT is RMT is RMT no matter how you try to package it.
The fallacy of the LOTRO scenario is that future content will be designed to 'strongly encourage' players to cough up more money, even if they're already paying a subscription. Notice that paying subscribers get an allotment of turbine points every month to "buy" things from the store? That's still RMT.
Not to mention the overall quality of an MMO drops when it has a free option... but that's just a whole new can of worms.
Well, DDO's quality went up very fast, and as I am previewer of new content before it hits like servers, I know that each and every update seems better, richer and more D&Dish. Example is Update 5 - new guild system and realy Roleplaying-type quests.
Yes, I am roleplayer, I really like quality before quantity and trust me, DDO after re-launch started to give me much better experience, better suited to my needs.
If you not us RMT, you don't need to bother with it. If you subcribe you get Turbine Points "in the pack", and so you really never need to buy more if you'd like to use it.
Really people, play to this 10th - 15th level in DDO and I'm sure you'll be relieved to see that quality only got better and that WE choose what we want to see developed next. Like never before.
Important: Some people like ot complain that DDO gets "dumber", when it just gets more accesible to people who don't know D&D rules at all. Some people like to complain that DDO gets "easier", yet their biggest complain about newest Update 5 is that it nerfs most of the game - so, makes the whole game harder...
Yes, it's really that way. People very often see what they want to see, basing on their emotions. They don't see what there really is, if they don't want to see it.
quoting you my friend just because you are the last one and I will start my long rant on you :P
the complain about DDO getting easyer is the fact you will not ahve to read and think to do things and the fact you have to pay to open certain game parts are really troublesome to say the least, also is a real repetitive game you have to repeat the same instance several times to get xp and a lot of then are not worth the time you need to complete then, I play the P&P D&D 2edition a lot even sometime in the 3th but DDO don't make me feel like i'm playing a DDO even games more limited like kotor are a lot more fun then DDO so after more or less 1 month I just leave.
about the green letters> you say they are nerfing a lot of things, well I don't know what they are doing bout a lot of this nerfings I bet is to force people to pay for more RMT that is the issue the dude you quote said, make more "content" to make pay more for less.
I agre with Teala too, if is a sub game nothing in game should be sold via RMT, sever transfer, name change I say ok just because its make more work for your team to make the changes in DB, even thought you can make tools to make it easyer, but i will not keep talking about it.
we are more vocal about the news MMO because a lot of new MMOs are just a copy paste from hold ideas with new shine grafics, in one topic from a dude in our forums he said he heard a dev saying he want to make game to kids and housewifes because they don't complain about what they make, really I think he is just a lazy dev, hey let's change our market scope, we will try to make games for people who or are too new or just never played a game before so they can't bash our old ideas of games.
well jaime I will ask you tell us the truth about the LotRO comunity in a month or 2 and say if its a better game now or worth or even no change at all.
Am i the only one wodnering how much the owners of LOTRO "donated" in order to receive such an influx of interest? They got less coverage when they launched the game the first time. Yay for corporate models, now how about you guys use some of that money to hire a competant web designer to fix the custon features on your game list.
Good article Jaime ! Someone finally saying things as they are.
And to make things clear.
We're not "misinformed". We understand all too well the F2P model. We understand Lotro going "hybrid" and offering something akin to a free trial/demo. We understand that more and more games will use this type of financing form. And so we're indifferent to posts/articles/blogs trying to enlighten us with "The Truth". Go on wasting your time.
Fact is:
WE JUST DON'T LIKE F2P AND WON'T PUMP ANY MONEY ON IT
Go Figure. Simple as that. It's a matter of Free Will; it's a matter of the Consumer's Right to choose how to spend his/her money; it's a matter of we, the consumers, deciding what we want from the industry, not the other way.
And you know ? They need our money more than we need their buggier-and-dumber games. And insulting us, calling us "dinosaurs" of some sort, trying to brainwash us with tons of these "futuristic" assumptions or with various media is only costing them more and more possible customers and damaging the industry as a whole.
Because, you know, most of the suits trying to convince us that "this is the future" have the gaming experience of a potato, have no pride or dream or vision for their product and are just mercenaries oiling their dirty hands with the prospects of profits. More profits. More stock options. Whatever the cost. Whatever the lie and the dirty trick they've to play on you. It's called Greed.
Well, if you don't like F2P, then don't play games that use that business model. Its really just that simple.
You do realize that your last paragraph applies much more to the political process than it does to the game industry as a whole? Instead of profits its power for them. Not to mention that its the pursuit of that 'dirty" profit, that is the motivating factor behind the large number of games we have to choose from today. Given the millions and millions(of other peoples money) that such games cost to create, how could one possibly miss the profit connection?
I'm always amused and amazed by those who rant about "greed", as they almost never have any clear definition of it. Its usually some version of "you have more than I do", or "you have more than I feel that you should". Are you going to be the exception, and provide a non subjective definition of the concept you have used above?
Again, F2P is simply a different business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it. Lets let market dyanmics sort this out.
I honestly never enjoyed one single free play mmo. My first test will be GW2 if FF doesn't steal me away first. The things I enjoy I usually have to pay for, but the one draw from a company stand point I can see would be they can have people come back at any time and start playing the game out of the blue. Saves the reactivation period where someone could back out I guess. For me, I pay to have an environment that is accessable and things that I work for. Item shops and misc costs have been creeping in the main stream over the years and the allure is there for companies to try a new model. I get it, I do. But myself, I just want my game, here is my monthly fee and let's be done with it. I know for a fact, you get what you pay for in games.
I honestly never enjoyed one single free play mmo. My first test will be GW2 if FF doesn't steal me away first. The things I enjoy I usually have to pay for, but the one draw from a company stand point I can see would be they can have people come back at any time and start playing the game out of the blue. Saves the reactivation period where someone could back out I guess. For me, I pay to have an environment that is accessable and things that I work for. Item shops and misc costs have been creeping in the main stream over the years and the allure is there for companies to try a new model. I get it, I do. But myself, I just want my game, here is my monthly fee and let's be done with it. I know for a fact, you get what you pay for in games.
END OF LINE_
~V
Actually, I believe, I could be wrong I haven't played GW in about a year, but GW is truly a free to play game. They do not sell items via a cash shop.
Besides that, there is a difference how F2P features are integrated, F2P as it is in some F2P Asian games is very different from what you can see in a DDO.
I'm gonna rename the 'hybrid F2P' to C2P, because that's what it looks like, the emerging payment model as we slowly start to see with MMO's like DDO and LotrO soon: not the pure F2P where itemshop is dominant, also not the Pay-to-play where there's a monthly fee (and sometimes paid services or an itemshop on top of that), but Choose to Play or Choose to Pay, where you decide if and how you pay for your gaming experience.
About time someone did this. What Turbine is doing just isn't F2P. More like an extended demo-mode it seems to me. The F2P people in game won't even have the complete Chat channels so I don't even think they'll effect the RPers.
I honestly never enjoyed one single free play mmo. My first test will be GW2 if FF doesn't steal me away first. The things I enjoy I usually have to pay for, but the one draw from a company stand point I can see would be they can have people come back at any time and start playing the game out of the blue. Saves the reactivation period where someone could back out I guess. For me, I pay to have an environment that is accessable and things that I work for. Item shops and misc costs have been creeping in the main stream over the years and the allure is there for companies to try a new model. I get it, I do. But myself, I just want my game, here is my monthly fee and let's be done with it. I know for a fact, you get what you pay for in games.
END OF LINE_
~V
Actually, I believe, I could be wrong I haven't played GW in about a year, but GW is truly a free to play game. They do not sell items via a cash shop.
I think GW doesn't count since you have to buy the game in order to play, but I'm not sure.
I honestly never enjoyed one single free play mmo. My first test will be GW2 if FF doesn't steal me away first. The things I enjoy I usually have to pay for, but the one draw from a company stand point I can see would be they can have people come back at any time and start playing the game out of the blue. Saves the reactivation period where someone could back out I guess. For me, I pay to have an environment that is accessable and things that I work for. Item shops and misc costs have been creeping in the main stream over the years and the allure is there for companies to try a new model. I get it, I do. But myself, I just want my game, here is my monthly fee and let's be done with it. I know for a fact, you get what you pay for in games.
END OF LINE_
~V
Actually, I believe, I could be wrong I haven't played GW in about a year, but GW is truly a free to play game. They do not sell items via a cash shop.
I just this week downloaded it and am gonna give it a try this. Haven't had a chance to give it a go. Hey maybe it will be the one that breaks the mold for me!
I'm always amused and amazed by those who rant about "greed", as they almost never have any clear definition of it. Its usually some version of "you have more than I do", or "you have more than I feel that you should". Are you going to be the exception, and provide a non subjective definition of the concept you have used above?
Maye my post wasn't weel written. My fault.
Not paying for F2P is the exact thing I'm going to do. No problem. You and others can do otherwise and are free to do as you like. No problem with that too. I would just be happy not to be under the constant bombardment of insults or intellectual dishonesty and lies for my legitimate opinion/choice.
As for your quote: I'm not a socialist nor an egalitarian of any sort with the envy of the rich. Quite the contrary so spare me your 2-cents socio-political analysis. Getting a profit for a game you spent years to develop is a boon for everyone. Trying to milk any cent for a product beyond even its original scope or quality and with no consideration for your actual paying customers is a short-ranged goal that can only be defined is greed. Of course we'll see rights and wrongs only in the next years.
I'm confident in the laws of the market and that this is just the bubble of the moment. Problem is: it will damage the MMO industry for the years to come and it will deliver us shittier and shittier products.
I'm always amused and amazed by those who rant about "greed", as they almost never have any clear definition of it. Its usually some version of "you have more than I do", or "you have more than I feel that you should". Are you going to be the exception, and provide a non subjective definition of the concept you have used above?
Maye my post wasn't weel written. My fault.
Not paying for F2P is the exact thing I'm going to do. No problem. You and others can do otherwise and are free to do as you like. No problem with that too. I would just be happy not to be under the constant bombardment of insults or intellectual dishonesty and lies for my legitimate opinion/choice.
As for your quote: I'm not a socialist nor an egalitarian of any sort with the envy of the rich. Quite the contrary so spare me your 2-cents socio-political analysis. Getting a profit for a game you spent years to develop is a boon for everyone. Trying to milk any cent for a product beyond even its original scope or quality and with no consideration for your actual paying customers is a short-ranged goal that can only be defined is greed. Of course we'll see rights and wrongs only in the next years.
I'm confident in the laws of the market and that this is just the bubble of the moment. Problem is: it will damage the MMO industry for the years to come and it will deliver us shittier and shittier products.
Ok... From your words above (last paragraph) what else would one be lead to believe? That IS the all too typical mentality of those who dispise free enterprise and the profit motive. Given the nature of these types of communication, peoples words are all one has to go by.
But I must disagree with your attempt at a definition for greed. The key points again are subjective. They also mix poor quality customer service(which not considering the impact of ones policies equates to) with the basic principle to be defined. While the word "greed" has many uses in manipulation(and the class warfare that such is a function of). it has rather limited value in an attempt at clear communication.
I must say that all sides of the current conflict over various business models have their extremists. Personally, I really do not care if the model is P2P, F2P or some hybrid. What my focus is on is the entertainment to be had.
Bottom line, if you don't like F2P don't play games that use that business model. Its really that simple.
Personally im a big fan of the hybrid model that Turbine is using for DDO, and is moving LOTRO to. Its a great way to get players to strat playing the game, and they can spend a couple of months trying different areas of it to see if they actually like like. Where as the free trials that only last a week, or 2 at most, dont provide much of a chance for more casual players who have jobs, familys, and other commitments and only get an hour or 2 a day if they are lucky. And it means that if those same players like the game and want to kep playing it, they wont feel they are wasting money if they dont get to log in for a couple of weeks.
It also means that players like myself, who dont have the spare cash to subscribe to an mmo, or can only afford to subscribe to one mmo at a time, can try out games they have had thier eye on for a while, but never bothered with a trial because they knew they couldnt afford to play it anyway. I just started playing ddo this week because its f2p and hope to be able to subscribe for a month or two later in the year when my finances have stableised. And being unemployed means i can spend 15 hours a day playing mmos, which with turbines hybrid model means i can easily get the TP (Turbine Pionts) i need to purchase some items from the turbine store. I'm currently hoping that Turbine will also move AC to thier hybrid model, so i can try that out as well
Now if I could just get you to throw some potato salad at Mr Aihoshi at the next MMORPG.com picnic
Nicely thought out article, although I wish I shared your belief that the MMO market will actually vote with its' collective wallets. I've seen far too much that leads me to believe the MMO companies ignore their customers because said customers are mostly doormats who will accept whatever is thrown at them.
Now, if we could only get a few people to look past Turbines press releases and realize how badly they have implemented this model with DDO....
Yes, that does mean I have broken my usual trends and played DDO...I got sucked into trying because it is "dungeons and dragons" afterall and I had to see what they had done with it. The game itself is playable and fun in places, the cash shop revenue model is intrusive and really annoying. They promote it constantly at every turn in the game and want to nickel and dime you to death. (even they finally dropped the level-lock items that you had to grind like a lemming for or buy) One of the biggest drawbacks to the game is that it is virtually impossible to tell what content is free - you constantly run into "you can only go here if you pay" BS yet cannot tell until you try and go there.
As others have mentioned, what exactly is wrong with Turbine when in a market where sub models are doing fine for some games, even growing, they can manage to totally wreck two of the largest and most well known IPs in the western market?
I'm excited for this change. I wholeheartedly do not believe LoTRO worth the subscription fee, but am much more inclined to play it if it's free with things to be purchased as I see fit.
Same goes for DDO, I hated it when I first tried and it and recently I have been playing it and totally adore it. If anything it seems more fun than the first two times I had tried it.
Honestly the "F2P" model is basically the equivalent of basically the company wanting to get in tap with players who doesn't want to level or gain items the traditional way and want a quick time killer. If most of you read the comments above a lot of it claims supperiority over "F2P" but what they don't seem to understand is the bred of "P2P" is very rare hence the transaction between "P2P" to "F2P" because the companies would seriously rather make a quick buck out of someone who's lazy and wanna gain the edge faster by spending out of pocket, then a mere 15$ a month small group of players so if you don't like their business model, find another game to play.
First why does everybody feel the need to appoligize for lotro going f2p. I disagree that the future is f2p, there might be some but most I have played have been total crud.
I am sorry there is now way anybody can convince me that turbine being the liars that they are have the vet's best interest at heart.
That was a pure money grab, one I hope blows up in their face.
Have to laugh at those posters that want an example of greed. How about using Perfect World as an example of greed. They have a power up stone for sale this week for $75. It has a one time use. That is 5 months of subscription game to upgrade one weapon one level. If that isn't greed, I don't know what is.
The asian f2p games with their expensive items shops are simply just a blip in the horizon. They represent no future in this genre because they offer no long term content besides the endless purchase of greater power items.
I do not believe that the future is F2P or P2P. I think the future is a hybrid model, which happens to be exactly what Turbine is using. LotRO and DDO are NOT F2P games. They are games that have a F2P option. There is a big difference.
The reason I believe the hybrid model is the future is really basic math.
$15 a month for a subscription seems to be the sweet spot for subscriptions. It's the highest that people are typically willing to pay. So the more people a game has at that $15 price point, the more profitable the game is.
There's just one problem with that: There are a limited number of customers, and most customers are not willing to pay that $15 a month for more than one, maybe two games. Yet there are a large number of quality games out there, and more coming every month or two. This constantly causes the pool of customers to become more and more divided among the games, meaning that each game gets less and less profit. What happens when a new game comes out? Usually, it means a bunch of people cancel their subs at Game A to go play Game B for a while. Some eventually come back to Game A, but some also stay with Game B. Then Game C comes out and gets players from both A and B. Some eventually go back to those first two, while some remain with C. It's a case of diminishing returns. Unless the total player base grows faster than this inter-game spreading, the result is that all games end up making less and less money. And frankly, there are no signs that this is happening. WoW was really the only game that has significantly increased the player base, but even it has hit its limit. Now it's experiencing the same attrition as everyone else.
This means that it's essential for another model to exist. The hybrid model is perfect for this.
The advantage to the hybrid model is that there is the subscription option for those who want it. These are going to be the game's best customers, and so they get the most. But if the game also has a F2P option it will not completely lose customers every time the Next Big Game comes along. Sure, it will lose that $15 a month from a number of people, but many of these people will opt to come back under the F2P model even as they're playing the NBG. So maybe instead of $15 a month, the developer is getting $5 a month. That's $5 more than they would have had without the F2P option, which becomes significant when spread among a lot of players.
It helps the industry as a whole. That same player who would never pay $15 a month on two games might very well spend $15 on one and $5 on each of three others. More companies see stronger revenue, which helps them keep their games strong with new features and content. This also encourages still more developers to come into the picture. Sure, they'll all be hoping to get as many of those full subscribers as possible, but because it's not an all-or-nothing situation they will have a reasonable hope to see at least decent profits in the long term. They won't be so focused on a great starting experience with mediocre to crappy end-game content. (Yes, I'm talking to YOU, Cryptic!)
I know I've been talking about the benefits to developers here, and that's because those benefits are exactly what drives the developers. Customer voice really doesn't go a long way unless it's a huge chunk of the population. But honestly, this scenario does benefit the customer in many ways:
More games coming onto the scene means more options and hopefully more innovation.
You have more freedom because you're not locked into your subscription. You can bounce among games more freely and be able to justify coming back to that change-of-pace game a couple days out of the month.
As this model increasingly catches on, expect to start seeing price wars among the studios. The subscription fee is unlikely to change, but the value of the items in the stores is likely to become a hotly competitive area.
Because each game with a hybrid model is likely to be more profitable than a game with only a subscription model, these games will be able to put out new content faster. They'll have to, actually, in order to keep people wanting to at least spend a few days a month in their world. This means the games you play will stay fresher for you.
The market is more likely to grow under a hybrid model than it ever could under a strictly P2P model. This means that more guys will be able to get their girlfriends to play, even if it's only a few dollars a month rather than a full subscription. It's an opportunity to introduce more people to the genre, and some of them will ultimately convert to subscribers. The worlds will see more people, which will help keep them feeling alive. And you'll have less of that top heaviness that so many of us complain about when we go to roll alts. There will actually be people for those alts to play with!
That last point is actually pretty cool when you think about it. You see, a common complaint with P2P games is that eventually everyone is gathered at the top. The lower level zones become dead, which makes it less fun to play through them a second time while also discouraging new players from sticking around. On the other hand, a common complaint with F2P games is that everyone's at the low levels. Lots of people coming in to check out the game, but not that many willing to shell out the bucks to go to the end. A hybrid model combines the two, so that both the high and low end zones see plenty of action. This actually encourages more people to stick with the game because they have people to play with now and also see a lot happening at the higher end to look forward to. It's a win-win for everyone.
Just my two cents, anyway. I really don't see F2P destroying the P2P market at all. The hybrid model is the one that makes the most sense for the future.
Have to laugh at those posters that want an example of greed. How about using Perfect World as an example of greed. They have a power up stone for sale this week for $75. It has a one time use. That is 5 months of subscription game to upgrade one weapon one level. If that isn't greed, I don't know what is.
The asian f2p games with their expensive items shops are simply just a blip in the horizon. They represent no future in this genre because they offer no long term content besides the endless purchase of greater power items.
BTW excellent article again Jaime.
Well, there is a good sized difference between an example and a definition. I'd consider PW an example of how not to use a cash shop. But Battle of the Immortals(also PW) is even more so. But in neither case would I use the word greedy. Out side of an attempt at emotional manipulation, it doesn't serve much purpose.
But I totally agree that some of the Asian games take the idea of a cash shop to absurd extremes. But thats ok, as I choose not to play those games. Market dynamics will determine the future of the western market. Bottom line, if you don't like F2P games, don't play them.
Comments
From what I read, its a trial, not F2P........have to admit I am getting really tired of mmo companies and their BS and lies
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
Please, try DDO and you'll see you're wrong
. You earn Turbine Points by playing.
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Thank you for an excellent article, Jamie! It is refreshing to see someone look at this situation with logic and objectivity without feeling the need to be a condescending jackass, as I feel some other writers have done this week.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yes, please don't get me wrong people - I appreciate it too.
I love what's going on with DDO... now. But yes, I'm very careful. I know _now_ it's benefitting me. But you know how democracy works - just look what happened to music...
I'm a musician and I know that this shitty music great music companies are offering now is a result of _democracy_ = maximizing income.
If the same happens to DDO, and it doesn't happen in any "bad" way now (imho), then I'll start to worry. But I'm sure some companies will serve us "fast food", and others, more niche ones, will offer us quality. Now I will stand by my opinion - Turbine offers loads of quality and continues to do so, so there' s no reason to worry... yet.
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SwordCoast.pl Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SwordCoastPL/
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Good article Jaime ! Someone finally saying things as they are.
And to make things clear.
We're not "misinformed". We understand all too well the F2P model. We understand Lotro going "hybrid" and offering something akin to a free trial/demo. We understand that more and more games will use this type of financing form. And so we're indifferent to posts/articles/blogs trying to enlighten us with "The Truth". Go on wasting your time.
Fact is:
WE JUST DON'T LIKE F2P AND WON'T PUMP ANY MONEY ON IT
Go Figure. Simple as that. It's a matter of Free Will; it's a matter of the Consumer's Right to choose how to spend his/her money; it's a matter of we, the consumers, deciding what we want from the industry, not the other way.
And you know ? They need our money more than we need their buggier-and-dumber games. And insulting us, calling us "dinosaurs" of some sort, trying to brainwash us with tons of these "futuristic" assumptions or with various media is only costing them more and more possible customers and damaging the industry as a whole.
Because, you know, most of the suits trying to convince us that "this is the future" have the gaming experience of a potato, have no pride or dream or vision for their product and are just mercenaries oiling their dirty hands with the prospects of profits. More profits. More stock options. Whatever the cost. Whatever the lie and the dirty trick they've to play on you. It's called Greed.
Nice column, I quite enjoyed reading it.
This does present the tension of the market dynamic. This IS a business, and it IS about profit. But it is also about keeping ones players/customers happy. I suspect much of this hype is due to the nature of the news/business/convention cycle. Also keep in mind that conflict drives page views. The more views that a site has, the more profit potential it has.
Once one gets under all of the hype and hysteria(believe me some of the anti F2P types have much in common with other types of fanatics), its all about choices and opportunities. To me, F2P is simply another business model. Its in its application(and the abuse there of) that I some times object to.
Bottom line, if you don't like/approve of F2P, then don't play games that use that model. Market dynamics will sort these things out over time. Anyone who is paying attention, already knows that F2P aren't really free. If they aren't aware of that, then the old saying "a fool and their money are soon parted" applies. If one isn't a fool, then one doesn't have nearly as much to worry about.
quoting you my friend just because you are the last one and I will start my long rant on you :P
the complain about DDO getting easyer is the fact you will not ahve to read and think to do things and the fact you have to pay to open certain game parts are really troublesome to say the least, also is a real repetitive game you have to repeat the same instance several times to get xp and a lot of then are not worth the time you need to complete then, I play the P&P D&D 2edition a lot even sometime in the 3th but DDO don't make me feel like i'm playing a DDO even games more limited like kotor are a lot more fun then DDO so after more or less 1 month I just leave.
about the green letters> you say they are nerfing a lot of things, well I don't know what they are doing bout a lot of this nerfings I bet is to force people to pay for more RMT that is the issue the dude you quote said, make more "content" to make pay more for less.
I agre with Teala too, if is a sub game nothing in game should be sold via RMT, sever transfer, name change I say ok just because its make more work for your team to make the changes in DB, even thought you can make tools to make it easyer, but i will not keep talking about it.
we are more vocal about the news MMO because a lot of new MMOs are just a copy paste from hold ideas with new shine grafics, in one topic from a dude in our forums he said he heard a dev saying he want to make game to kids and housewifes because they don't complain about what they make, really I think he is just a lazy dev, hey let's change our market scope, we will try to make games for people who or are too new or just never played a game before so they can't bash our old ideas of games.
well jaime I will ask you tell us the truth about the LotRO comunity in a month or 2 and say if its a better game now or worth or even no change at all.
Am i the only one wodnering how much the owners of LOTRO "donated" in order to receive such an influx of interest? They got less coverage when they launched the game the first time. Yay for corporate models, now how about you guys use some of that money to hire a competant web designer to fix the custon features on your game list.
Well, if you don't like F2P, then don't play games that use that business model. Its really just that simple.
You do realize that your last paragraph applies much more to the political process than it does to the game industry as a whole? Instead of profits its power for them. Not to mention that its the pursuit of that 'dirty" profit, that is the motivating factor behind the large number of games we have to choose from today. Given the millions and millions(of other peoples money) that such games cost to create, how could one possibly miss the profit connection?
I'm always amused and amazed by those who rant about "greed", as they almost never have any clear definition of it. Its usually some version of "you have more than I do", or "you have more than I feel that you should". Are you going to be the exception, and provide a non subjective definition of the concept you have used above?
Again, F2P is simply a different business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it. Lets let market dyanmics sort this out.
I honestly never enjoyed one single free play mmo. My first test will be GW2 if FF doesn't steal me away first. The things I enjoy I usually have to pay for, but the one draw from a company stand point I can see would be they can have people come back at any time and start playing the game out of the blue. Saves the reactivation period where someone could back out I guess. For me, I pay to have an environment that is accessable and things that I work for. Item shops and misc costs have been creeping in the main stream over the years and the allure is there for companies to try a new model. I get it, I do. But myself, I just want my game, here is my monthly fee and let's be done with it. I know for a fact, you get what you pay for in games.
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~V
Actually, I believe, I could be wrong I haven't played GW in about a year, but GW is truly a free to play game. They do not sell items via a cash shop.
About time someone did this. What Turbine is doing just isn't F2P. More like an extended demo-mode it seems to me. The F2P people in game won't even have the complete Chat channels so I don't even think they'll effect the RPers.
I think GW doesn't count since you have to buy the game in order to play, but I'm not sure.
I just this week downloaded it and am gonna give it a try this. Haven't had a chance to give it a go. Hey maybe it will be the one that breaks the mold for me!
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~V
Maye my post wasn't weel written. My fault.
Not paying for F2P is the exact thing I'm going to do. No problem. You and others can do otherwise and are free to do as you like. No problem with that too. I would just be happy not to be under the constant bombardment of insults or intellectual dishonesty and lies for my legitimate opinion/choice.
As for your quote: I'm not a socialist nor an egalitarian of any sort with the envy of the rich. Quite the contrary so spare me your 2-cents socio-political analysis. Getting a profit for a game you spent years to develop is a boon for everyone. Trying to milk any cent for a product beyond even its original scope or quality and with no consideration for your actual paying customers is a short-ranged goal that can only be defined is greed. Of course we'll see rights and wrongs only in the next years.
I'm confident in the laws of the market and that this is just the bubble of the moment. Problem is: it will damage the MMO industry for the years to come and it will deliver us shittier and shittier products.
Ok... From your words above (last paragraph) what else would one be lead to believe? That IS the all too typical mentality of those who dispise free enterprise and the profit motive. Given the nature of these types of communication, peoples words are all one has to go by.
But I must disagree with your attempt at a definition for greed. The key points again are subjective. They also mix poor quality customer service(which not considering the impact of ones policies equates to) with the basic principle to be defined. While the word "greed" has many uses in manipulation(and the class warfare that such is a function of). it has rather limited value in an attempt at clear communication.
I must say that all sides of the current conflict over various business models have their extremists. Personally, I really do not care if the model is P2P, F2P or some hybrid. What my focus is on is the entertainment to be had.
Bottom line, if you don't like F2P don't play games that use that business model. Its really that simple.
Personally im a big fan of the hybrid model that Turbine is using for DDO, and is moving LOTRO to. Its a great way to get players to strat playing the game, and they can spend a couple of months trying different areas of it to see if they actually like like. Where as the free trials that only last a week, or 2 at most, dont provide much of a chance for more casual players who have jobs, familys, and other commitments and only get an hour or 2 a day if they are lucky. And it means that if those same players like the game and want to kep playing it, they wont feel they are wasting money if they dont get to log in for a couple of weeks.
It also means that players like myself, who dont have the spare cash to subscribe to an mmo, or can only afford to subscribe to one mmo at a time, can try out games they have had thier eye on for a while, but never bothered with a trial because they knew they couldnt afford to play it anyway. I just started playing ddo this week because its f2p and hope to be able to subscribe for a month or two later in the year when my finances have stableised. And being unemployed means i can spend 15 hours a day playing mmos, which with turbines hybrid model means i can easily get the TP (Turbine Pionts) i need to purchase some items from the turbine store. I'm currently hoping that Turbine will also move AC to thier hybrid model, so i can try that out as well
**applause**
Now if I could just get you to throw some potato salad at Mr Aihoshi at the next MMORPG.com picnic
Nicely thought out article, although I wish I shared your belief that the MMO market will actually vote with its' collective wallets. I've seen far too much that leads me to believe the MMO companies ignore their customers because said customers are mostly doormats who will accept whatever is thrown at them.
Now, if we could only get a few people to look past Turbines press releases and realize how badly they have implemented this model with DDO....
Yes, that does mean I have broken my usual trends and played DDO...I got sucked into trying because it is "dungeons and dragons" afterall and I had to see what they had done with it. The game itself is playable and fun in places, the cash shop revenue model is intrusive and really annoying. They promote it constantly at every turn in the game and want to nickel and dime you to death. (even they finally dropped the level-lock items that you had to grind like a lemming for or buy) One of the biggest drawbacks to the game is that it is virtually impossible to tell what content is free - you constantly run into "you can only go here if you pay" BS yet cannot tell until you try and go there.
As others have mentioned, what exactly is wrong with Turbine when in a market where sub models are doing fine for some games, even growing, they can manage to totally wreck two of the largest and most well known IPs in the western market?
I'm excited for this change. I wholeheartedly do not believe LoTRO worth the subscription fee, but am much more inclined to play it if it's free with things to be purchased as I see fit.
Same goes for DDO, I hated it when I first tried and it and recently I have been playing it and totally adore it. If anything it seems more fun than the first two times I had tried it.
Honestly the "F2P" model is basically the equivalent of basically the company wanting to get in tap with players who doesn't want to level or gain items the traditional way and want a quick time killer. If most of you read the comments above a lot of it claims supperiority over "F2P" but what they don't seem to understand is the bred of "P2P" is very rare hence the transaction between "P2P" to "F2P" because the companies would seriously rather make a quick buck out of someone who's lazy and wanna gain the edge faster by spending out of pocket, then a mere 15$ a month small group of players so if you don't like their business model, find another game to play.
First why does everybody feel the need to appoligize for lotro going f2p. I disagree that the future is f2p, there might be some but most I have played have been total crud.
I am sorry there is now way anybody can convince me that turbine being the liars that they are have the vet's best interest at heart.
That was a pure money grab, one I hope blows up in their face.
Have to laugh at those posters that want an example of greed. How about using Perfect World as an example of greed. They have a power up stone for sale this week for $75. It has a one time use. That is 5 months of subscription game to upgrade one weapon one level. If that isn't greed, I don't know what is.
The asian f2p games with their expensive items shops are simply just a blip in the horizon. They represent no future in this genre because they offer no long term content besides the endless purchase of greater power items.
BTW excellent article again Jaime.
I do not believe that the future is F2P or P2P. I think the future is a hybrid model, which happens to be exactly what Turbine is using. LotRO and DDO are NOT F2P games. They are games that have a F2P option. There is a big difference.
The reason I believe the hybrid model is the future is really basic math.
$15 a month for a subscription seems to be the sweet spot for subscriptions. It's the highest that people are typically willing to pay. So the more people a game has at that $15 price point, the more profitable the game is.
There's just one problem with that: There are a limited number of customers, and most customers are not willing to pay that $15 a month for more than one, maybe two games. Yet there are a large number of quality games out there, and more coming every month or two. This constantly causes the pool of customers to become more and more divided among the games, meaning that each game gets less and less profit. What happens when a new game comes out? Usually, it means a bunch of people cancel their subs at Game A to go play Game B for a while. Some eventually come back to Game A, but some also stay with Game B. Then Game C comes out and gets players from both A and B. Some eventually go back to those first two, while some remain with C. It's a case of diminishing returns. Unless the total player base grows faster than this inter-game spreading, the result is that all games end up making less and less money. And frankly, there are no signs that this is happening. WoW was really the only game that has significantly increased the player base, but even it has hit its limit. Now it's experiencing the same attrition as everyone else.
This means that it's essential for another model to exist. The hybrid model is perfect for this.
The advantage to the hybrid model is that there is the subscription option for those who want it. These are going to be the game's best customers, and so they get the most. But if the game also has a F2P option it will not completely lose customers every time the Next Big Game comes along. Sure, it will lose that $15 a month from a number of people, but many of these people will opt to come back under the F2P model even as they're playing the NBG. So maybe instead of $15 a month, the developer is getting $5 a month. That's $5 more than they would have had without the F2P option, which becomes significant when spread among a lot of players.
It helps the industry as a whole. That same player who would never pay $15 a month on two games might very well spend $15 on one and $5 on each of three others. More companies see stronger revenue, which helps them keep their games strong with new features and content. This also encourages still more developers to come into the picture. Sure, they'll all be hoping to get as many of those full subscribers as possible, but because it's not an all-or-nothing situation they will have a reasonable hope to see at least decent profits in the long term. They won't be so focused on a great starting experience with mediocre to crappy end-game content. (Yes, I'm talking to YOU, Cryptic!)
I know I've been talking about the benefits to developers here, and that's because those benefits are exactly what drives the developers. Customer voice really doesn't go a long way unless it's a huge chunk of the population. But honestly, this scenario does benefit the customer in many ways:
More games coming onto the scene means more options and hopefully more innovation.
You have more freedom because you're not locked into your subscription. You can bounce among games more freely and be able to justify coming back to that change-of-pace game a couple days out of the month.
As this model increasingly catches on, expect to start seeing price wars among the studios. The subscription fee is unlikely to change, but the value of the items in the stores is likely to become a hotly competitive area.
Because each game with a hybrid model is likely to be more profitable than a game with only a subscription model, these games will be able to put out new content faster. They'll have to, actually, in order to keep people wanting to at least spend a few days a month in their world. This means the games you play will stay fresher for you.
The market is more likely to grow under a hybrid model than it ever could under a strictly P2P model. This means that more guys will be able to get their girlfriends to play, even if it's only a few dollars a month rather than a full subscription. It's an opportunity to introduce more people to the genre, and some of them will ultimately convert to subscribers. The worlds will see more people, which will help keep them feeling alive. And you'll have less of that top heaviness that so many of us complain about when we go to roll alts. There will actually be people for those alts to play with!
That last point is actually pretty cool when you think about it. You see, a common complaint with P2P games is that eventually everyone is gathered at the top. The lower level zones become dead, which makes it less fun to play through them a second time while also discouraging new players from sticking around. On the other hand, a common complaint with F2P games is that everyone's at the low levels. Lots of people coming in to check out the game, but not that many willing to shell out the bucks to go to the end. A hybrid model combines the two, so that both the high and low end zones see plenty of action. This actually encourages more people to stick with the game because they have people to play with now and also see a lot happening at the higher end to look forward to. It's a win-win for everyone.
Just my two cents, anyway. I really don't see F2P destroying the P2P market at all. The hybrid model is the one that makes the most sense for the future.
Is it coincedence that all the columnist here like the F2P model?
Or is there some kind of secret marketing agenda going on in the background here at MMORPG?
Well, there is a good sized difference between an example and a definition. I'd consider PW an example of how not to use a cash shop. But Battle of the Immortals(also PW) is even more so. But in neither case would I use the word greedy. Out side of an attempt at emotional manipulation, it doesn't serve much purpose.
But I totally agree that some of the Asian games take the idea of a cash shop to absurd extremes. But thats ok, as I choose not to play those games. Market dynamics will determine the future of the western market. Bottom line, if you don't like F2P games, don't play them.