80% of threads/posts on here are about how all new games are copying WOW, they're the same, they're boring etc. etc.
My question is, what excactly do you want? You keep saying "Don't they get it? We want something new!" Well, WHAT? What else is there to do? You want a game that is as good as WOW, but not WOW? Do you want a completely different genre? FPS MMO? Driving MMO? FPS MMO? Sci-Fi MMO? What new 'features' do you want?
To me, it seems a bit like what you really want is a time machine to go back in time and be amazed by this new cool type of game called 'MMO'. Where thousands of people all join together in a virtual world.
I do agree with you though, they do suck, but what is it you want? Who knows, maybe some Dev will read this and listen to your ideas/thoughts..
Short answer: What we want is something old.
I think for the most part people just want games to stop shunting us like sheep down a ramp. Or stop dangling a new shinier carrot in front of us and pretending its progression. These games are supposed to add excitement and adventure, not be our Mums.
Everything else is just optional extras.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
1) large seemless world with a variety of environments
2) extensive character creation with nice looking models and life like animations
3) varied gameplay encompassing multiple spheres, such as diplomacy, crafting, combat, social, etc.
4) a deep crafting system that allows a crafter to create unique items
5) a housing and city system such as in precu SWG
6) no more twitch based combat, precu swg combat was good
7) the ability to explore land, air and sea-
8) skill based game without classes and levels
9) i would like a game that doesn't make me wait till the end of the game to get to the cool stuff
10) the ability to turn off/on pvp so we can fight where ever we want whenever we want
It would be interesting to see a game based off of Red Dead Redemption. It would be something different, and I am really loving the game at the moment. But fantasy or sci fi would be okay too.
I want better combat. Tank, spank and heal have been pretty boring for a long time now. First better AI for the mobs, they need to act more like real humans or real animals instead of the old predictable EQ AI.
I also want to get rid of the zillion hitpoints you get as you level. More realistic mechanics for armor also, it is actually rather hard to kill someone in a good armor but someone without is fast, it is easy to one shot someone in a robe IRL.
More realistic rules for weapons, particularly for gunpowder. A gun will penetrate any armor but takes a very long time to reload.
I also want more options besides killing people. Missions/quests where stealth is important, as in the old "Thief" game. And a good system for stealth, AoCs basic idea is really good but it doesn't work as good as it should.
I want a more diverse endgame. Raiding gets boring in the long run and crafting is usually rather crappy. I like the idea AoC have with a guildcity but it can be perfected. Make the guldcity customizable and make it so that the players could build a real city with stores, a castle, people, farms and so on, a kingdom for the players.
Crafting should be more about designing stuff and less about farming crap to make the same useless thing a 100 times. I want to choose how my items look and their effects, of course based on my skill.
PvP also really needs a boost. It is really fun to PvP in FPS games but in MMOs it is just somewhat fun. One thing I would like would be generals, to have a RTS character on each side like in "Natural selection". That would make sieges and similar more interesting.
Some way to implement real battle formations would also be fun but I am not sure exactly how you could do that, maybe with the before mentioned general and glowing points or arrows where he wants you.
I know what I want, things from past MMOs that did work, and I want them because they were fun, not because of some magical nostalgia effect, package them in a shiny new skin with all the standard social/guild/auction mechanics we've come to expect and you would be golden.
You don't know that.
Neither do you. And honestly neither do I. Still that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to formulate and express his own opinion on the subject. But then according to you none of us really know anything. It seems like your perfect MMORPG discussion would be everyone just sitting around in an uncomfortable silence while you make shushing motions like an old time librarian.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Here is the thing on huge seamless worlds, it’s pretty difficult to give them real distinction from one area to the next. Has to do with available variables to the map which if too detailed begins to burn too many client resources. And the other thing is environmental shaders, as large seamless areas you are mostly stuck with one set and any transitions are too dramatic in most cases. I mean where the transitions really stick out when you really don’t want to draw the players attention to that.
This is why I much prefer zone based worlds, as each zone can be completely different, from terrains used, scenery models and to environmental shaders. They don’t need to be small, can take 10 minutes to get from one side to the other, but it’s a lot better than giant seamless areas imo.
Much of what people want can be summed up like this: Nobody knows what they want til they see it.
...doesn't hold true for everything, but think back to before Ultima Online: if you asked a gaming forum "What do you want to see next?" do you honestly think any of them would answer "A massively multiplayer role-playing game"? Of course not.
It's similar with the next "new" game that'll come around the bend and catch people offguard: they'll see it and know it's what they've always wanted.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I want a better combat system. We do this 98% of the time in any mmo and the cookie cutter combat system is getting old.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I want a world that my character lives in along with everyone else and that our actions affect that world and each other. I'd like my characters "life" in that game to have some meaning to me and to everyone else.
Originally posted by GTwander I just want good combat mechanics. ... The gamebreaker for me is the combat. So I am looking forward to a lot of new games that are breaking away from the EQ-set standard.
. WoW has some of the best combat mechanics in the genre. . It's the most responsive and fluid combat I've ever played. . You have tons of combat features, like spell reflect, pets, short range teleports, knockbacks, the ability to remove debuffs, speed enhancements, etc. Every spell means something in WoW, you don't have six keys that do the same thing. There's enough stats to keep the min/max spreadsheet crowds happy. . There's no autofacing in WoW no /stick command. If you as a player are dexterous enough, you can do things like leap at an oppenent, gouge them while in the air, spin a 180 while still in the air land and backstab. . As you flee an oppenent, you can jump, spin a 180, fire an instant attack, continue spining until you've completed the rotation, land and continue running in the same direction. . Yet you don't play it.
I want a game that has no such things as experience points or "levels" and no cookie-cutter classes that were old hat 10 years ago and I ESPECIALLY don't want to see "kill 10 wolves" type of quests rehashed ad nauseum. I don't want a time- and money-sink crafting system where you have to churn out low-level crap that no-one - including me - wants, just to end up making high-level items that no-one else but me can use.
I want an instance-free game with a skill-based character progression system, which I can follow down any path I like, becoming a character that has a unique mix of abilities that grow more powerful as I refine and develop them. I want to craft things that are actually useful, profitable and that other people would want to buy. I want a breathing, functioning world with wars, plagues and even realistic weather and seasons, rather than a static, unchanging game world where every day is the same as every other day. I want a game that allows me to explore huge maps and live off the wilderness, encountering new cultures as well as finding new skills and crafts for my character. I want my decisions and, yes, the actions and decisions of other players, to shape the world around me, for good or ill, grouping up with and/or battling other players in the process if needed.
I just want good combat mechanics. ... The gamebreaker for me is the combat.
So I am looking forward to a lot of new games that are breaking away from the EQ-set standard.
.
WoW has some of the best combat mechanics in the genre.
.
It's the most responsive and fluid combat I've ever played.
.
You have tons of combat features, like spell reflect, pets, short range teleports, knockbacks, the ability to remove debuffs, speed enhancements, etc. Every spell means something in WoW, you don't have six keys that do the same thing. There's enough stats to keep the min/max spreadsheet crowds happy.
.
There's no autofacing in WoW no /stick command. If you as a player are dexterous enough, you can do things like leap at an oppenent, gouge them while in the air, spin a 180 while still in the air land and backstab.
.
As you flee an oppenent, you can jump, spin a 180, fire an instant attack, continue spining until you've completed the rotation, land and continue running in the same direction.
.
Yet you don't play it.
Don't get all butt-hurt. You ever think that maybe I'm sick of that kind of gameplay after rehashing it since 2004?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by uquipu
Originally posted by GTwander I just want good combat mechanics. ... The gamebreaker for me is the combat. So I am looking forward to a lot of new games that are breaking away from the EQ-set standard.
. WoW has some of the best combat mechanics in the genre. . It's the most responsive and fluid combat I've ever played. . You have tons of combat features, like spell reflect, pets, short range teleports, knockbacks, the ability to remove debuffs, speed enhancements, etc. Every spell means something in WoW, you don't have six keys that do the same thing. There's enough stats to keep the min/max spreadsheet crowds happy. . There's no autofacing in WoW no /stick command. If you as a player are dexterous enough, you can do things like leap at an oppenent, gouge them while in the air, spin a 180 while still in the air land and backstab. . As you flee an oppenent, you can jump, spin a 180, fire an instant attack, continue spining until you've completed the rotation, land and continue running in the same direction. . Yet you don't play it.
Don't get all butt-hurt. You ever think that maybe I'm sick of that kind of gameplay after rehashing it since 2004? . My butt doesn't hurt thank you. . Just odd that you claim to love combat but you just ignore the best combat going? . Fickle much?
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by uquipu
Originally posted by GTwander
Don't get all butt-hurt. You ever think that maybe I'm sick of that kind of gameplay after rehashing it since 2004?
. My butt doesn't hurt thank you. . Just odd that you claim to love combat but you just ignore the best combat going? . Fickle much?
WoW does *not* have the best combat in the genre, it does EQ-style well, but FFS I am over that kind of gameplay. Planetside > WoW DDO > WoW Auto Assault (was) > WoW
There are so many better combat schemes out there, so I don't have to aim for "the best of retro". . I tried DDO, the mouse clicks are constant and steady sounding like a mini-gun. You must have a mouse with a silent mouse button. Spamming mouse clicks is your idea of good combat? . Meh. . Where DDO shines IMO is character generation. All that min maxing and deciding just how many levels of cleric you mix in with the other classes. And don't forget to pick up one level of rogue at the start.
A bit late, but why not....these aren't in any particular order
- I want a game that is willing to *be* what it claims to be and doesn't try to be all things to every potential player
- I want games that are honest about what they are; None is "better" than another but be up front about what it is...a game that claims to be a PvE quest game should have lots of quest content, a "raiding" game had better keep the high end raids coming, pvp game deliver meaningful pvp etc.
- I want persistant worlds; I want events, if a dragon burns down a town in a raid, I want ruins until it is rebuilt.
- I want a stable freaking company and dev team, not one that feels the need to redesign basic game mechanics or change their business plan when the game is only year or three old; somone who will commit to supporting a game for even half as freaking long as SOE supported the original EQ
- I want character options so my barbarian warrior isn't the same and wearing the same gear as 99% of the others out there
- I WANT risk, challenge and loss. I want death to mean more than a >shrug< and a short walk back to what I was doing
- I want a large world that feels large and stays large; I shouldn't be able to get to any zone in the game in less than 15minutes, however the game shouldn't make me cross continents for idiotic delivery quests; if I am going to have a quest to haul some junk across multiple zones over hours it should be an epic adventure with encounters on the way.
- I want the ability for player generated content; shops, houses, outdoor parties, bars and etc. Player generated quests and so on would be even better.
- I want a world with decent (but not cutting edge) graphic effects and a psuedo-realism style...not cartoony pastels
- I want a truely 3-d world, where I can climb things and swim underwater...actually modifying terrain or destructible objects would be even better
9) i would like a game that doesn't make me wait till the end of the game to get to the cool stuff
Ok, this is a PERFECT example.
What makes an item 'cool'? Usually it's the fact that it is rare, i.e hard to get or takes long to get. If any random noob can go into the game and get it quickly then it's NO LONGER COOL, no matter how powerful it is, no matter how cool it LOOKS, it is NOT cool if everyone has it.
So called 'Grind' has to exist to a certain extent, if it didn't then it would be excactly like any FPS Multiplayer game. You need to put time in (i.e grind) for the character to have some 'value'.
Making grind fun and not mindnumbingly boring is a completely different point.
I tried DDO, the mouse clicks are constant and steady sounding like a mini-gun. You must have a mouse with a silent mouse button. Spamming mouse clicks is your idea of good combat?
XD
Next time try holding the mouse button down.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Something new? No, that is how we got into this mess. Something old, but on the path of innovation that fits that, not changing it to something else entirely, a different path. The technology/features path at this point leads to CRPG, not MMO.
Indeed... MMOs were progressing at a good rate, becoming more complex, more involved and more intuitive but without becoming more pampering.
Then WoW came along and the entire industry took a left turn, away from the progression the genre was making.
Many people have said that MMOs were too off-putting.. too big, too complex.. and so forth. I can see where someone could say that, even if I never felt that way. I think the genre could have done well to bring it a little more in the direction they went. The thing is... they went *too* far too quickly in the other direction, to the point where almost everything that made MMORPGs the huge, epic and lasting experiences they were was simplified, neutered and/or demoted to near insignificance.
What's funny is that as people are complaining that "this" or "that" in a given game is still "too difficult" or "too harsh" or "too complex" or "too slow", they're also complaining more and more that the games are becoming more and more boring. It amazes me how obvious the correlation is and that more people aren't speaking out about it.
Players are insisting on systematically simplifying MMOs down to little more than a race for Raids and Phat Lewt. Storyline has been eschewed in favor of faster leveling. Competition over valuable world resources (including raid bosses) has been eliminated in favor of instancing. The importance of group dynamics has been demoted more and more in favor of more soloability.
Everything that made MMORPGs what they were to those who loved them in the first place is being continuously sucked out of them, leaving less and less to do. Of *course* they're going to get boring.
I know some will say "Well those aspects of old MMOs sucked and it's good that they're gone". I think that's an extremely short-sighted mentality. I think those so-called "old school" mechanics could have been refined and very well would have. Not to the point of simplifying or "dumbing them down"... but in terms of making them more accessible and better explained so they would become "easy to learn, hard to master".
But even that wouldn't be enough, I fear, for many who have been weaned on the hyper-gratification reward-fest that is the post WoW mindset. They want it "easy to learn *and* easy to master". The word "hard" - or any of its synonyms - have no place in their vocabulary. If there's not an in-game helper or an online guide they can follow like a cake recipe, there's a problem.
So... to me.. I think we need to see a more parallel track develop. More developers need to start going back to their roots, remembering what it was that made MMOs attractive in the first place. What was it about EQ1 that hooked so many? What was it about that game that inspired the folks at Blizzard to even consider making WoW in the first place? What was the magic that kept people playing other older MMOs like UO, AC1, DAoC and AO... and has them still playing to this day? What kept FFXI's population at ~500,000 players (almost twice what some of the shiny, new AAA titles have managed to hold on to only months after their release) for 7 years, despite it being a long, slow and admittedly difficult game to get into?
I think if some companies dared to get off the WoW bandwagon, delved back into the older MMOs with an open - but still criticial eye - and thought of ways they could improve those game experiences *without* gutting what made them what they were... and then successfully crafted a game after what they learned... I think we could very well see some good quality new MMOs come out that capture some of that "old-school" feel.
I'm not saying the more casual-friendly MMOs need to "go". I'm just saying they are not the "only answer" to the MMO situation. I think some developers need to go back and pick up the MMO genre where it left off before WoW came out. There was still plenty of growth and improvement that could take place without having to go the WoW route.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Short answer: What we want is something old.
I think for the most part people just want games to stop shunting us like sheep down a ramp. Or stop dangling a new shinier carrot in front of us and pretending its progression. These games are supposed to add excitement and adventure, not be our Mums.
Everything else is just optional extras.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
easy:
a virtual world:
instancefree
death matters
economy matters
useful and complex crafting
deep character progression
huge world
no fast travel
deep learncurve
well done housing such as UO
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner !!! Exactly stated above.
That and REALLY awesome mounts. Exploration quests. Freedom. Socialization. Roleplay aspects.
[size=8]PLAYED: TSO, SWG, WOW, EQ2, Vanguard, FFXII, AOC, AION, Guild Wars, Second Life
Waiting: SWTOR, FFXIV
1) large seemless world with a variety of environments
2) extensive character creation with nice looking models and life like animations
3) varied gameplay encompassing multiple spheres, such as diplomacy, crafting, combat, social, etc.
4) a deep crafting system that allows a crafter to create unique items
5) a housing and city system such as in precu SWG
6) no more twitch based combat, precu swg combat was good
7) the ability to explore land, air and sea-
8) skill based game without classes and levels
9) i would like a game that doesn't make me wait till the end of the game to get to the cool stuff
10) the ability to turn off/on pvp so we can fight where ever we want whenever we want
It would be interesting to see a game based off of Red Dead Redemption. It would be something different, and I am really loving the game at the moment. But fantasy or sci fi would be okay too.
Well, there is a lot of things I want in a MMO.
I want better combat. Tank, spank and heal have been pretty boring for a long time now. First better AI for the mobs, they need to act more like real humans or real animals instead of the old predictable EQ AI.
I also want to get rid of the zillion hitpoints you get as you level. More realistic mechanics for armor also, it is actually rather hard to kill someone in a good armor but someone without is fast, it is easy to one shot someone in a robe IRL.
More realistic rules for weapons, particularly for gunpowder. A gun will penetrate any armor but takes a very long time to reload.
I also want more options besides killing people. Missions/quests where stealth is important, as in the old "Thief" game. And a good system for stealth, AoCs basic idea is really good but it doesn't work as good as it should.
I want a more diverse endgame. Raiding gets boring in the long run and crafting is usually rather crappy. I like the idea AoC have with a guildcity but it can be perfected. Make the guldcity customizable and make it so that the players could build a real city with stores, a castle, people, farms and so on, a kingdom for the players.
Crafting should be more about designing stuff and less about farming crap to make the same useless thing a 100 times. I want to choose how my items look and their effects, of course based on my skill.
PvP also really needs a boost. It is really fun to PvP in FPS games but in MMOs it is just somewhat fun. One thing I would like would be generals, to have a RTS character on each side like in "Natural selection". That would make sieges and similar more interesting.
Some way to implement real battle formations would also be fun but I am not sure exactly how you could do that, maybe with the before mentioned general and glowing points or arrows where he wants you.
Neither do you. And honestly neither do I. Still that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to formulate and express his own opinion on the subject. But then according to you none of us really know anything. It seems like your perfect MMORPG discussion would be everyone just sitting around in an uncomfortable silence while you make shushing motions like an old time librarian.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Here is the thing on huge seamless worlds, it’s pretty difficult to give them real distinction from one area to the next. Has to do with available variables to the map which if too detailed begins to burn too many client resources. And the other thing is environmental shaders, as large seamless areas you are mostly stuck with one set and any transitions are too dramatic in most cases. I mean where the transitions really stick out when you really don’t want to draw the players attention to that.
This is why I much prefer zone based worlds, as each zone can be completely different, from terrains used, scenery models and to environmental shaders. They don’t need to be small, can take 10 minutes to get from one side to the other, but it’s a lot better than giant seamless areas imo.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Much of what people want can be summed up like this: Nobody knows what they want til they see it.
...doesn't hold true for everything, but think back to before Ultima Online: if you asked a gaming forum "What do you want to see next?" do you honestly think any of them would answer "A massively multiplayer role-playing game"? Of course not.
It's similar with the next "new" game that'll come around the bend and catch people offguard: they'll see it and know it's what they've always wanted.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I want a survival Zombie MMO.
I don't want Dead Frontier, I want a full on MMO.
I want a better combat system. We do this 98% of the time in any mmo and the cookie cutter combat system is getting old.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I want a world that my character lives in along with everyone else and that our actions affect that world and each other. I'd like my characters "life" in that game to have some meaning to me and to everyone else.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
New Classes instead of the rehashed.
New gameplay ideas-like trying to save a species from extinction or something silly.
A ever changing player controled world with no grinding and a lot a social gaming.
I want WoD.
WoW has some of the best combat mechanics in the genre.
.
It's the most responsive and fluid combat I've ever played.
.
You have tons of combat features, like spell reflect, pets, short range teleports, knockbacks, the ability to remove debuffs, speed enhancements, etc. Every spell means something in WoW, you don't have six keys that do the same thing. There's enough stats to keep the min/max spreadsheet crowds happy.
.
There's no autofacing in WoW no /stick command. If you as a player are dexterous enough, you can do things like leap at an oppenent, gouge them while in the air, spin a 180 while still in the air land and backstab.
.
As you flee an oppenent, you can jump, spin a 180, fire an instant attack, continue spining until you've completed the rotation, land and continue running in the same direction.
.
Yet you don't play it.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I want a game that has no such things as experience points or "levels" and no cookie-cutter classes that were old hat 10 years ago and I ESPECIALLY don't want to see "kill 10 wolves" type of quests rehashed ad nauseum. I don't want a time- and money-sink crafting system where you have to churn out low-level crap that no-one - including me - wants, just to end up making high-level items that no-one else but me can use.
I want an instance-free game with a skill-based character progression system, which I can follow down any path I like, becoming a character that has a unique mix of abilities that grow more powerful as I refine and develop them. I want to craft things that are actually useful, profitable and that other people would want to buy. I want a breathing, functioning world with wars, plagues and even realistic weather and seasons, rather than a static, unchanging game world where every day is the same as every other day. I want a game that allows me to explore huge maps and live off the wilderness, encountering new cultures as well as finding new skills and crafts for my character. I want my decisions and, yes, the actions and decisions of other players, to shape the world around me, for good or ill, grouping up with and/or battling other players in the process if needed.
We'll just get another F2P grinder though.
Don't get all butt-hurt. You ever think that maybe I'm sick of that kind of gameplay after rehashing it since 2004?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Oh but then you can just try the plethora of other MMO's with completely different gameplay! There are no such things as WoW clones, after all!
Just because crafting, combat, progression and endgame works the same way as WoW doesn't make it a WoW clone, etc.
(I'm being sarcastic (and wish I wouldn't have to point that out for some..))
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WoW has some of the best combat mechanics in the genre.
.
It's the most responsive and fluid combat I've ever played.
.
You have tons of combat features, like spell reflect, pets, short range teleports, knockbacks, the ability to remove debuffs, speed enhancements, etc. Every spell means something in WoW, you don't have six keys that do the same thing. There's enough stats to keep the min/max spreadsheet crowds happy.
.
There's no autofacing in WoW no /stick command. If you as a player are dexterous enough, you can do things like leap at an oppenent, gouge them while in the air, spin a 180 while still in the air land and backstab.
.
As you flee an oppenent, you can jump, spin a 180, fire an instant attack, continue spining until you've completed the rotation, land and continue running in the same direction.
.
Yet you don't play it.
Don't get all butt-hurt. You ever think that maybe I'm sick of that kind of gameplay after rehashing it since 2004?
.
My butt doesn't hurt thank you.
.
Just odd that you claim to love combat but you just ignore the best combat going?
.
Fickle much?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
WoW does *not* have the best combat in the genre, it does EQ-style well, but FFS I am over that kind of gameplay.
Planetside > WoW
DDO > WoW
Auto Assault (was) > WoW
There are so many better combat schemes out there, so I don't have to aim for "the best of retro".
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
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My butt doesn't hurt thank you.
.
Just odd that you claim to love combat but you just ignore the best combat going?
.
Fickle much?
WoW does *not* have the best combat in the genre, it does EQ-style well, but FFS I am over that kind of gameplay.
Planetside > WoW
DDO > WoW
Auto Assault (was) > WoW
There are so many better combat schemes out there, so I don't have to aim for "the best of retro".
.
I tried DDO, the mouse clicks are constant and steady sounding like a mini-gun. You must have a mouse with a silent mouse button. Spamming mouse clicks is your idea of good combat?
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Meh.
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Where DDO shines IMO is character generation. All that min maxing and deciding just how many levels of cleric you mix in with the other classes. And don't forget to pick up one level of rogue at the start.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
You only have to click once, hold it down, and keep it over the target. Like any basic FPS-game, and still miles ahead of queued combat.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
A bit late, but why not....these aren't in any particular order
- I want a game that is willing to *be* what it claims to be and doesn't try to be all things to every potential player
- I want games that are honest about what they are; None is "better" than another but be up front about what it is...a game that claims to be a PvE quest game should have lots of quest content, a "raiding" game had better keep the high end raids coming, pvp game deliver meaningful pvp etc.
- I want persistant worlds; I want events, if a dragon burns down a town in a raid, I want ruins until it is rebuilt.
- I want a stable freaking company and dev team, not one that feels the need to redesign basic game mechanics or change their business plan when the game is only year or three old; somone who will commit to supporting a game for even half as freaking long as SOE supported the original EQ
- I want character options so my barbarian warrior isn't the same and wearing the same gear as 99% of the others out there
- I WANT risk, challenge and loss. I want death to mean more than a >shrug< and a short walk back to what I was doing
- I want a large world that feels large and stays large; I shouldn't be able to get to any zone in the game in less than 15minutes, however the game shouldn't make me cross continents for idiotic delivery quests; if I am going to have a quest to haul some junk across multiple zones over hours it should be an epic adventure with encounters on the way.
- I want the ability for player generated content; shops, houses, outdoor parties, bars and etc. Player generated quests and so on would be even better.
- I want a world with decent (but not cutting edge) graphic effects and a psuedo-realism style...not cartoony pastels
- I want a truely 3-d world, where I can climb things and swim underwater...actually modifying terrain or destructible objects would be even better
Ok, this is a PERFECT example.
What makes an item 'cool'? Usually it's the fact that it is rare, i.e hard to get or takes long to get. If any random noob can go into the game and get it quickly then it's NO LONGER COOL, no matter how powerful it is, no matter how cool it LOOKS, it is NOT cool if everyone has it.
So called 'Grind' has to exist to a certain extent, if it didn't then it would be excactly like any FPS Multiplayer game. You need to put time in (i.e grind) for the character to have some 'value'.
Making grind fun and not mindnumbingly boring is a completely different point.
AW
XD
Next time try holding the mouse button down.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Indeed... MMOs were progressing at a good rate, becoming more complex, more involved and more intuitive but without becoming more pampering.
Then WoW came along and the entire industry took a left turn, away from the progression the genre was making.
Many people have said that MMOs were too off-putting.. too big, too complex.. and so forth. I can see where someone could say that, even if I never felt that way. I think the genre could have done well to bring it a little more in the direction they went. The thing is... they went *too* far too quickly in the other direction, to the point where almost everything that made MMORPGs the huge, epic and lasting experiences they were was simplified, neutered and/or demoted to near insignificance.
What's funny is that as people are complaining that "this" or "that" in a given game is still "too difficult" or "too harsh" or "too complex" or "too slow", they're also complaining more and more that the games are becoming more and more boring. It amazes me how obvious the correlation is and that more people aren't speaking out about it.
Players are insisting on systematically simplifying MMOs down to little more than a race for Raids and Phat Lewt. Storyline has been eschewed in favor of faster leveling. Competition over valuable world resources (including raid bosses) has been eliminated in favor of instancing. The importance of group dynamics has been demoted more and more in favor of more soloability.
Everything that made MMORPGs what they were to those who loved them in the first place is being continuously sucked out of them, leaving less and less to do. Of *course* they're going to get boring.
I know some will say "Well those aspects of old MMOs sucked and it's good that they're gone". I think that's an extremely short-sighted mentality. I think those so-called "old school" mechanics could have been refined and very well would have. Not to the point of simplifying or "dumbing them down"... but in terms of making them more accessible and better explained so they would become "easy to learn, hard to master".
But even that wouldn't be enough, I fear, for many who have been weaned on the hyper-gratification reward-fest that is the post WoW mindset. They want it "easy to learn *and* easy to master". The word "hard" - or any of its synonyms - have no place in their vocabulary. If there's not an in-game helper or an online guide they can follow like a cake recipe, there's a problem.
So... to me.. I think we need to see a more parallel track develop. More developers need to start going back to their roots, remembering what it was that made MMOs attractive in the first place. What was it about EQ1 that hooked so many? What was it about that game that inspired the folks at Blizzard to even consider making WoW in the first place? What was the magic that kept people playing other older MMOs like UO, AC1, DAoC and AO... and has them still playing to this day? What kept FFXI's population at ~500,000 players (almost twice what some of the shiny, new AAA titles have managed to hold on to only months after their release) for 7 years, despite it being a long, slow and admittedly difficult game to get into?
I think if some companies dared to get off the WoW bandwagon, delved back into the older MMOs with an open - but still criticial eye - and thought of ways they could improve those game experiences *without* gutting what made them what they were... and then successfully crafted a game after what they learned... I think we could very well see some good quality new MMOs come out that capture some of that "old-school" feel.
I'm not saying the more casual-friendly MMOs need to "go". I'm just saying they are not the "only answer" to the MMO situation. I think some developers need to go back and pick up the MMO genre where it left off before WoW came out. There was still plenty of growth and improvement that could take place without having to go the WoW route.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops