I think it will be better than Aion and have better sub numbers than Aion as well. The WH40K ip is insanely popular so they have a good thing going here. Just don't mess it up like Mythic did which I do not believe will happen this time around.
I just hope that this does not go down the same path as WAR. While WAR did have some great ideas, none of it was implemented very well, and alot of what was promised was never delivered. Or for that fact still is not in the game.
As mentioned before this IP is about fighting,fighting and if you get bored did i mention fighting? A constant battle, not between the "good or bad" but between EVERYONE. Now we all know that there are not going to be 5,6 or 7 factions to choose from. But 2........
Really. Two. For an IP such as this, the best we can do is "Order" and that screams good guys to me. And "Destruction" and hello bad guys....
It seems like a cheap cop out and a run for some fast cash becuase they know damm well that alot of people know the IP and really want it to be great. Hell. I want it to be great, the thoughts running through my head of the possibilitys for this game are mind boggoling.
This game could go in so many directions. I guess my biggest wish is that it is not a cookie cutter clone of some other game that we have all played before.
I understand that there will be similar things to other games, I undstand that not everything will be new. But there is the opertunity for this game to do so many new things that other IP's can only dream of, that i hope, cross my fingers & toes, that they give a thought to and not pump out a pile of you know what.
All of that said, i know nothing about the game yet, so this is all just my rambleings and hopes not facts and i have no real prof or evidance to back up anything i have just said!
you guys need to seriously think about what this game would look like if all of the races were different factions. lets look at the table top game for a moment, around half the different "armys" are various alien races while the other half are varous space marines and guess what, about 75% of players play marines and every other release for the game is something for marines. while some armys wait 10 years for an update marines get updated multiple times a year. 90% of the background storys are about how much better than everyone else the marines are.
they are going to have a hard enough time getting enough players to play the evil side as it is. if all the races were seperate factions the humans would literaly have 10x more players than everyone else. i for one would much rather deal with the two faction thing then have every pvp encounter end with an inevitable flood of marines.
the tps combat, if done well could make this game unique enough to be really awsome. we just have to hope they do it right.
Remains to be seen and will be interesting to watch. As a former GW retailer I'm in no way interested in this title now. I got a taste of the "Order vs. Destruction" format in WAR and I don't like it. The draw for me was picking an army/race and having it battle against all of the other armies. To me the first step is representing each army separately and not as a part of some alliance. Very rarely do you read in the lore and see such things. Heck, even Space Marine Chapters are more than likely to turn on each other after defeating another foe.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I will play this game. Depending on the drop time it may have a chance after SWTOR cools down. But also Fallout online will probably drop before 40k will.
No other game will have the background and universe that 40k will have.
Guys I think you aren't taking into consideration that they have to have Two factions for balance. There in no way that an Imperial Guard is going to take on a marine solo if they are sticking to actual rules and laws of the game.
There is also NO WAY we would be able to play as a tyranid because they are controlled by their queen and are creatures with no humanoid intelligence. They have their own intelligence. Works great in an RTS, not in an mmo.
There are tons of things you guys are not considering at all. They are taking something from a table top JUST LIKE WAR , and having to form it into an MMO which can be hard.
Someone else said in this thread, again, it is WAR ... ALL THE TIME.... for all of you PVE fans, warhammer should scream
P V P!!!
This is also something else that people need to consider. Really, seeing how every MMO is very similar to the original dungeons and Dragons stats system, I don't think you will see much of a difference. Except for maybe controlling some units, this is the only thing I could see different than others.
As far as faction base terms go though - The templars were not in their normal armor. The typical black and white. Maybe this is a successor chapter? Who knows. Maybe they went rogue or something. Who knows. Same thing with the orks. This may be that "blue moon" where they side with chaos. It makes sense because they too are rather... easily influenced if it has to do with destroying and killing.
So again all of this makes sense. And I am more than sure this WILL be a Zerg fest, and I say that with a lighter tone. Because it is a war, it's not a " I'M AN INDIVIDUAL!!! I AM MY OWN CHARACTER!! I ENJOY SMALLER GROUPS!!! OH MY GOSH THEY ARE PKing ME!! MAKE THE HURT STOP!!" If this is you, you have to step away from this game right now because you will ruin it for the rest of us.
It's an armies game. Period, no more , no less. You will stand with your BROTHERS and fight. Brothers as in more than five! ( If you're a marine of course haha ) .
Expect everything I said, it's how MMO's have to work for balance because everyone wants to be that "hero" or "on top".
If you do not expect stuff like this in mmo's, all the balancing etc, you should probably find a new gaming genre.
Here's the thing. The name Warhammer 40k will sale this game regardless of what anyone says. The amount of nerds that argue the fictional lore of this game is astounding. It will succeed, initially at least.
Where this game will sail like a ship or fold is the game play. I'm talking about "Go kill 10 boars and then come tell me about it for 10,000 xp." If that's the case and seeing current trends in today's MMOs it will be HUGE. Another big question in the design that will allow success is, "Is it casual enough?" "Is it simple enough for Timmy's mother to play? Yet challenging enough for Timmy and his friends?" Aside from it running smoothly without bugs and glitches, or just too hardware intensive, these things will most likely be the deciding factors of this game being a huge hit (in the long run) or not.
If they go the hardcore route they will lose a large amount of potential numbers but they'll at least have half of the mmorpg.com community. I prefer this route myself but I wont hold my breathe as just from the trailer alone I see nothing exciting what so ever except for the fact that it has 40k art. If my speculation holds true that it will be a 3rd person shooter and not your typical MMORPG template auto attack, smash some buttons, I may be a little more interested. Otherwise I'll happily stick with the RTS's.
Maybe I'm just old and jaded. Just because an MMO has a fancy name and some cool books doesn't mean it will play well.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
Yes the 2 faction warfare was such a huge failure in WoW. I have no idea why anyone would want to do that. LOL
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
Originally posted by M1sf1t People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
Yes the 2 faction warfare was such a huge failure in WoW. I have no idea why anyone would want to do that. LOL
This IP isn't wow so really your point is moot, especially when you consider the giant failure that is Warhammer Online.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
Yes the 2 faction warfare was such a huge failure in WoW. I have no idea why anyone would want to do that. LOL
The don't. LOL
WoW is about PvE, either leveling or Raiding.
The faction warfare is something to do on the side, when you're not leveling or Raiding.
Unlike DaoC, where RvR and PvP was the main focus of the game.
Originally posted by M1sf1t People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
DAOC had the system which is a proven winner in RvR/PvP when dealing with many factions. A system which would allow for a greater ability to adhere closely to the actual fluff/lore of the game which revolves around absolute and total war.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
DAOC had the system which is a proven winner in RvR/PvP when dealing with many factions.
Ok but I don't think you understand that this is not DAoC and lore wise, there is no way in hell the Imperial guard would side with chaos to kill marines. THQ follows this "lore" very well. You need to provide a solution to your problem.
DAoC was a completely different game, IP in general. RvR will NEVER come back unless it is a NEW IP and possibly made by someone that does not put hatred between factions to the finest point. This is now 2010 where the whiners and criers take priority over the hardcore gamer. You would have thought people would have figured this out by now.
so really, with out the RvR balance, this will not happen. So what is your other solution??
EDIT: This is also of course they don't have the IG go rogue. We don't know the story , so this is hard to assume.
From my experience with working on DarkSpace, three factions is the way to go.
No matter how much work you put into it, you will always have one faction shich is stronger than the other(s), unless they are simple carbon copy supilcates in different skins. Even then, you will rarely have an even number of players on each side.
Going three ways means that there will always be those two factions that can work together, either formally or informally, to take the tough guy down.
Just occasionally you end up with both of the dominant factions beating on the weak guy just for the hell of it, but crap happens and the players still think it is fun (unless you are on the receiving end of the beating).
Even THREE Factions won't cut it. I believe it HAS to be four:
Space Marines
Chaos
Ork
Eldar
If ANYTHING follow the Dawn of War model for expansion packs: 1st xpac, more content, upgrades. 2nd xpac, Tau/Necron. 3rd xpac, more content, upgrades. 4th xpac Tyranids. You will have us drinking the Kool Aid for YEARS.
Two Factions is FAIL. Please see Age of Reckoning, Warhammer.
Three or more Factions is WIN. Please see Camelot, Dark Age Of.
From my experience with working on DarkSpace, three factions is the way to go.
No matter how much work you put into it, you will always have one faction shich is stronger than the other(s), unless they are simple carbon copy supilcates in different skins. Even then, you will rarely have an even number of players on each side.
Going three ways means that there will always be those two factions that can work together, either formally or informally, to take the tough guy down.
Just occasionally you end up with both of the dominant factions beating on the weak guy just for the hell of it, but crap happens and the players still think it is fun (unless you are on the receiving end of the beating).
Sounds good on paper, and I do like a 3 way conflict better than just two sides.
However, in DAoC, what often happened is once one faction got the upper hand on a server, people just quit playing the other two factions, and rolled a character on the winning side, because players like to Pwn joo!
but some people like playing the under dog, so it does all work out, and it more interesting that two sides.
I think you can look at the Forces of Order and Forces of Destruction in a different perspective.
There are most definitely two kinds of races in 40k. Races that want to fuck everything up, and races that are just trying to reclaim a bit of their former glory. Chaos and Order.
Could that statement not just be a generalization and reference of the different race's in the game and those race's in fact will still fight each other?
And even further still all I saw in the trailer was Space Marines, Fail Guard, Orks, and CSM. When you think about it, this could potentially be a 3 Way between an Imperium, Orks, and CSM scenerio.
There is also the fact that we no jack diddly about this game besides a short trailer, and a couple paragraphs of fluff. Because as 40k players we know that fluff is always a relible source of how the rules of a game playout right?
Until we get a full interview or a couple of walkthrough videos, People need to calm down.
From my experience with working on DarkSpace, three factions is the way to go.
No matter how much work you put into it, you will always have one faction shich is stronger than the other(s), unless they are simple carbon copy supilcates in different skins. Even then, you will rarely have an even number of players on each side.
Going three ways means that there will always be those two factions that can work together, either formally or informally, to take the tough guy down.
Just occasionally you end up with both of the dominant factions beating on the weak guy just for the hell of it, but crap happens and the players still think it is fun (unless you are on the receiving end of the beating).
but like I already said, how do you suppose they do this???? This is a very old IP. they already have rulings where certain races have only loyalties to themselves. I understand what you are saying though, seeing how I also have played DAoC. But this will not work with Warhammer . I could see it if they released tons of different factions.
I guess all you can do is bring it up. But really I don't see things changing like that for multiple factions to team up against one.
Especially seeing how necrons refuse to side with any one, but yet you couldn't really .. make them look any different then others. Basically... no matter what , their would be no real individualism in this game. Which is what people want now a days.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
DAOC had the system which is a proven winner in RvR/PvP when dealing with many factions.
Ok but I don't think you understand that this is not DAoC and lore wise, there is no way in hell the Imperial guard would side with chaos to kill marines. THQ follows this "lore" very well. You need to provide a solution to your problem.
DAoC was a completely different game, IP in general. RvR will NEVER come back unless it is a NEW IP and possibly made by someone that does not put hatred between factions to the finest point. This is now 2010 where the whiners and criers take priority over the hardcore gamer. You would have thought people would have figured this out by now.
so really, with out the RvR balance, this will not happen. So what is your other solution??
EDIT: This is also of course they don't have the IG go rogue. We don't know the story , so this is hard to assume.
The IG may not side with Chaos to kill marines, but the IG OR SM would follow a direct order to eliminate the other if they were told that the other was heretical (whether they were in deed heretical doesn't matter).
And I'm really tired of the balance crying over it. A lasgun will kill a Space marine. Go as tons of IG players. Strength 3 on a Toughness 4 is a 5+ roll on a 6 sided dice. Nowhere is it written they have to have the exact same damage on weapons. Part of the fun of IG is that you have to group up and use numbers to overwhelm your enemy. Hell, Vigil could even consider giving IG players an NPC squad of 2 or 3 that they could outfit if it makes the whining about a wrongly perceived balance issue go away.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING stops X army from fighting Y army on the table-top. The same applies here. To do different alienates a sizable portion of an already limited target audience (40K players). Many of which who have already tried WAR and found it lacking for many reasons, including the use of 2 factions with an artificial alliance.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
DAOC had the system which is a proven winner in RvR/PvP when dealing with many factions.
Ok but I don't think you understand that this is not DAoC and lore wise, there is no way in hell the Imperial guard would side with chaos to kill marines. THQ follows this "lore" very well. You need to provide a solution to your problem.
DAoC was a completely different game, IP in general. RvR will NEVER come back unless it is a NEW IP and possibly made by someone that does not put hatred between factions to the finest point. This is now 2010 where the whiners and criers take priority over the hardcore gamer. You would have thought people would have figured this out by now.
so really, with out the RvR balance, this will not happen. So what is your other solution??
EDIT: This is also of course they don't have the IG go rogue. We don't know the story , so this is hard to assume.
The IG may not side with Chaos to kill marines, but the IG OR SM would follow a direct order to eliminate the other if they were told that the other was heretical (whether they were in deed heretical doesn't matter).
And I'm really tired of the balance crying over it. A lasgun will kill a Space marine. Go as tons of IG players. Strength 3 on a Toughness 4 is a 5+ roll on a 6 sided dice. Nowhere is it written they have to have the exact same damage on weapons. Part of the fun of IG is that you have to group up and use numbers to overwhelm your enemy. Hell, Vigil could even consider giving IG players an NPC squad of 2 or 3 that they could outfit if it makes the whining about a wrongly perceived balance issue go away.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING stops X army from fighting Y army on the table-top. The same applies here. To do different alienates a sizable portion of an already limited target audience (40K players). Many of which who have already tried WAR and found it lacking for many reasons, including the use of 2 factions with an artificial alliance.
Trust me, I'm tired of the cry as well. It's starting to get really old. I wanted the Warhammer: online fantasy based MMO to turn out LIKE daoc. But that was a fail trash because of "the cry". Those of us here , the majority of us at least are more hard core than other gamers, just for the fact we will sit here and theorize for hours about a game that will not be released for at the least a few years.
But this is also a business, and it's calling for a demand. So they will do what they want to please the majority of people, which is NOT us. Don't get me wrong, I am not against three to even five factions, but I am telling you now this will not happen because we are not the majority. US paying that one $15 a month sub < 10,000 people paying $15 a month sub. Think about it . Being realistic here, they will go where the money is. I don't think people have figured that out yet.
The new thing is to attract millions of people, they really and honestly put that over the game itself. There is no developer that can say otherwise with out feeling some sort of guilt.
Comments
If this game is exactly like WAR except with a different setting and TPS combat, I will play it.
But I doubt it will be as bad as WAR.
I think it will be better than Aion and have better sub numbers than Aion as well. The WH40K ip is insanely popular so they have a good thing going here. Just don't mess it up like Mythic did which I do not believe will happen this time around.
I thought the 3rd person shooting looked cool.
Hopefully the game will be good.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
It boils down if they can capture the combat mechanics well. If they can mix & balance range/cover combat with mechs well, then it will work.
I just hope that this does not go down the same path as WAR. While WAR did have some great ideas, none of it was implemented very well, and alot of what was promised was never delivered. Or for that fact still is not in the game.
As mentioned before this IP is about fighting,fighting and if you get bored did i mention fighting? A constant battle, not between the "good or bad" but between EVERYONE. Now we all know that there are not going to be 5,6 or 7 factions to choose from. But 2........
Really. Two. For an IP such as this, the best we can do is "Order" and that screams good guys to me. And "Destruction" and hello bad guys....
It seems like a cheap cop out and a run for some fast cash becuase they know damm well that alot of people know the IP and really want it to be great. Hell. I want it to be great, the thoughts running through my head of the possibilitys for this game are mind boggoling.
This game could go in so many directions. I guess my biggest wish is that it is not a cookie cutter clone of some other game that we have all played before.
I understand that there will be similar things to other games, I undstand that not everything will be new. But there is the opertunity for this game to do so many new things that other IP's can only dream of, that i hope, cross my fingers & toes, that they give a thought to and not pump out a pile of you know what.
All of that said, i know nothing about the game yet, so this is all just my rambleings and hopes not facts and i have no real prof or evidance to back up anything i have just said!
you guys need to seriously think about what this game would look like if all of the races were different factions. lets look at the table top game for a moment, around half the different "armys" are various alien races while the other half are varous space marines and guess what, about 75% of players play marines and every other release for the game is something for marines. while some armys wait 10 years for an update marines get updated multiple times a year. 90% of the background storys are about how much better than everyone else the marines are.
they are going to have a hard enough time getting enough players to play the evil side as it is. if all the races were seperate factions the humans would literaly have 10x more players than everyone else. i for one would much rather deal with the two faction thing then have every pvp encounter end with an inevitable flood of marines.
the tps combat, if done well could make this game unique enough to be really awsome. we just have to hope they do it right.
Remains to be seen and will be interesting to watch. As a former GW retailer I'm in no way interested in this title now. I got a taste of the "Order vs. Destruction" format in WAR and I don't like it. The draw for me was picking an army/race and having it battle against all of the other armies. To me the first step is representing each army separately and not as a part of some alliance. Very rarely do you read in the lore and see such things. Heck, even Space Marine Chapters are more than likely to turn on each other after defeating another foe.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I will play this game. Depending on the drop time it may have a chance after SWTOR cools down. But also Fallout online will probably drop before 40k will.
No other game will have the background and universe that 40k will have.
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Guys I think you aren't taking into consideration that they have to have Two factions for balance. There in no way that an Imperial Guard is going to take on a marine solo if they are sticking to actual rules and laws of the game.
There is also NO WAY we would be able to play as a tyranid because they are controlled by their queen and are creatures with no humanoid intelligence. They have their own intelligence. Works great in an RTS, not in an mmo.
There are tons of things you guys are not considering at all. They are taking something from a table top JUST LIKE WAR , and having to form it into an MMO which can be hard.
Someone else said in this thread, again, it is WAR ... ALL THE TIME.... for all of you PVE fans, warhammer should scream
P V P!!!
This is also something else that people need to consider. Really, seeing how every MMO is very similar to the original dungeons and Dragons stats system, I don't think you will see much of a difference. Except for maybe controlling some units, this is the only thing I could see different than others.
As far as faction base terms go though - The templars were not in their normal armor. The typical black and white. Maybe this is a successor chapter? Who knows. Maybe they went rogue or something. Who knows. Same thing with the orks. This may be that "blue moon" where they side with chaos. It makes sense because they too are rather... easily influenced if it has to do with destroying and killing.
So again all of this makes sense. And I am more than sure this WILL be a Zerg fest, and I say that with a lighter tone. Because it is a war, it's not a " I'M AN INDIVIDUAL!!! I AM MY OWN CHARACTER!! I ENJOY SMALLER GROUPS!!! OH MY GOSH THEY ARE PKing ME!! MAKE THE HURT STOP!!" If this is you, you have to step away from this game right now because you will ruin it for the rest of us.
It's an armies game. Period, no more , no less. You will stand with your BROTHERS and fight. Brothers as in more than five! ( If you're a marine of course
haha ) .
Expect everything I said, it's how MMO's have to work for balance because everyone wants to be that "hero" or "on top".
If you do not expect stuff like this in mmo's, all the balancing etc, you should probably find a new gaming genre.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
Here's the thing. The name Warhammer 40k will sale this game regardless of what anyone says. The amount of nerds that argue the fictional lore of this game is astounding. It will succeed, initially at least.
Where this game will sail like a ship or fold is the game play. I'm talking about "Go kill 10 boars and then come tell me about it for 10,000 xp." If that's the case and seeing current trends in today's MMOs it will be HUGE. Another big question in the design that will allow success is, "Is it casual enough?" "Is it simple enough for Timmy's mother to play? Yet challenging enough for Timmy and his friends?" Aside from it running smoothly without bugs and glitches, or just too hardware intensive, these things will most likely be the deciding factors of this game being a huge hit (in the long run) or not.
If they go the hardcore route they will lose a large amount of potential numbers but they'll at least have half of the mmorpg.com community. I prefer this route myself but I wont hold my breathe as just from the trailer alone I see nothing exciting what so ever except for the fact that it has 40k art. If my speculation holds true that it will be a 3rd person shooter and not your typical MMORPG template auto attack, smash some buttons, I may be a little more interested. Otherwise I'll happily stick with the RTS's.
Maybe I'm just old and jaded. Just because an MMO has a fancy name and some cool books doesn't mean it will play well.
People keep mentioning how 40K is insanely popular but what they fail to realize is that 40K is popular because of the fluff/lore! When you take the fluff/lore and then proceed to make giant mockery of it by over simplifying it for the drooling masses you basically alienate and push aside fans who were or might have been interested in your game. Then you add a proven loser mechanic such as 2 faction pvp warfare with that over simplification of the background material ("order" vs "destruction") and you further crap on the fans parade.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Yes the 2 faction warfare was such a huge failure in WoW. I have no idea why anyone would want to do that. LOL
so what would you do then to make it not that way???? Also taking into consideration you have to balance all of the races with one another, and you can not control full units, just yourself??? Also knowing the Space marines have a huge following and will over populate the rest.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
This IP isn't wow so really your point is moot, especially when you consider the giant failure that is Warhammer Online.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
The don't. LOL
WoW is about PvE, either leveling or Raiding.
The faction warfare is something to do on the side, when you're not leveling or Raiding.
Unlike DaoC, where RvR and PvP was the main focus of the game.
DAOC had the system which is a proven winner in RvR/PvP when dealing with many factions. A system which would allow for a greater ability to adhere closely to the actual fluff/lore of the game which revolves around absolute and total war.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
If they aim for the Warhammer 40k table top player, they may make some money.If they aim for the general market they will flop.
Every game that is doing well right now was made to be its own game and then people saw how great it was an climbed on board.
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Ok but I don't think you understand that this is not DAoC and lore wise, there is no way in hell the Imperial guard would side with chaos to kill marines. THQ follows this "lore" very well. You need to provide a solution to your problem.
DAoC was a completely different game, IP in general. RvR will NEVER come back unless it is a NEW IP and possibly made by someone that does not put hatred between factions to the finest point. This is now 2010 where the whiners and criers take priority over the hardcore gamer. You would have thought people would have figured this out by now.
so really, with out the RvR balance, this will not happen. So what is your other solution??
EDIT: This is also of course they don't have the IG go rogue. We don't know the story , so this is hard to assume.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
From my experience with working on DarkSpace, three factions is the way to go.
No matter how much work you put into it, you will always have one faction shich is stronger than the other(s), unless they are simple carbon copy supilcates in different skins. Even then, you will rarely have an even number of players on each side.
Going three ways means that there will always be those two factions that can work together, either formally or informally, to take the tough guy down.
Just occasionally you end up with both of the dominant factions beating on the weak guy just for the hell of it, but crap happens and the players still think it is fun (unless you are on the receiving end of the beating).
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IMO, this is the path Vigil needs to be on.
Even THREE Factions won't cut it. I believe it HAS to be four:
Space Marines
Chaos
Ork
Eldar
If ANYTHING follow the Dawn of War model for expansion packs: 1st xpac, more content, upgrades. 2nd xpac, Tau/Necron. 3rd xpac, more content, upgrades. 4th xpac Tyranids. You will have us drinking the Kool Aid for YEARS.
Two Factions is FAIL. Please see Age of Reckoning, Warhammer.
Three or more Factions is WIN. Please see Camelot, Dark Age Of.
Please don't fuck this up.
Sounds good on paper, and I do like a 3 way conflict better than just two sides.
However, in DAoC, what often happened is once one faction got the upper hand on a server, people just quit playing the other two factions, and rolled a character on the winning side, because players like to Pwn joo!
but some people like playing the under dog, so it does all work out, and it more interesting that two sides.
I think you can look at the Forces of Order and Forces of Destruction in a different perspective.
There are most definitely two kinds of races in 40k. Races that want to fuck everything up, and races that are just trying to reclaim a bit of their former glory. Chaos and Order.
Could that statement not just be a generalization and reference of the different race's in the game and those race's in fact will still fight each other?
And even further still all I saw in the trailer was Space Marines, Fail Guard, Orks, and CSM. When you think about it, this could potentially be a 3 Way between an Imperium, Orks, and CSM scenerio.
There is also the fact that we no jack diddly about this game besides a short trailer, and a couple paragraphs of fluff. Because as 40k players we know that fluff is always a relible source of how the rules of a game playout right?
Until we get a full interview or a couple of walkthrough videos, People need to calm down.
but like I already said, how do you suppose they do this???? This is a very old IP. they already have rulings where certain races have only loyalties to themselves. I understand what you are saying though, seeing how I also have played DAoC. But this will not work with Warhammer . I could see it if they released tons of different factions.
I guess all you can do is bring it up. But really I don't see things changing like that for multiple factions to team up against one.
Especially seeing how necrons refuse to side with any one, but yet you couldn't really .. make them look any different then others. Basically... no matter what , their would be no real individualism in this game. Which is what people want now a days.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
The IG may not side with Chaos to kill marines, but the IG OR SM would follow a direct order to eliminate the other if they were told that the other was heretical (whether they were in deed heretical doesn't matter).
And I'm really tired of the balance crying over it. A lasgun will kill a Space marine. Go as tons of IG players. Strength 3 on a Toughness 4 is a 5+ roll on a 6 sided dice. Nowhere is it written they have to have the exact same damage on weapons. Part of the fun of IG is that you have to group up and use numbers to overwhelm your enemy. Hell, Vigil could even consider giving IG players an NPC squad of 2 or 3 that they could outfit if it makes the whining about a wrongly perceived balance issue go away.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING stops X army from fighting Y army on the table-top. The same applies here. To do different alienates a sizable portion of an already limited target audience (40K players). Many of which who have already tried WAR and found it lacking for many reasons, including the use of 2 factions with an artificial alliance.
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Trust me, I'm tired of the cry as well. It's starting to get really old. I wanted the Warhammer: online fantasy based MMO to turn out LIKE daoc. But that was a fail trash because of "the cry". Those of us here , the majority of us at least are more hard core than other gamers, just for the fact we will sit here and theorize for hours about a game that will not be released for at the least a few years.
But this is also a business, and it's calling for a demand. So they will do what they want to please the majority of people, which is NOT us. Don't get me wrong, I am not against three to even five factions, but I am telling you now this will not happen because we are not the majority. US paying that one $15 a month sub < 10,000 people paying $15 a month sub. Think about it . Being realistic here, they will go where the money is. I don't think people have figured that out yet.
The new thing is to attract millions of people, they really and honestly put that over the game itself. There is no developer that can say otherwise with out feeling some sort of guilt.
www.roxstudiodesigns.com