They are pouring all of their time, effort, and money into fully voice-acting a storyline. Something that is a complete waste of time for an MMO. After you blast through the single player portion of the game (the completely unnecessary voice-acted storyline), you will be left with an average tab-target MMO based on the raped-to-death Star Wars franchise.
They are pouring all of their time, effort, and money into fully voice-acting a storyline. Something that is a complete waste of time for an MMO. After you blast through the single player portion of the game (the completely unnecessary voice-acted storyline), you will be left with an average tab-target MMO based on the raped-to-death Star Wars franchise.
Set for release next year, plenty of things to do in the meantime. It only stands to reason that there are going to be things that can't be talked about in full detail or even some detail in some aspects. I think they have their feet planted pretty firm in that they're releasing information that they know for sure as opposed to making promises they can't keep. I think it's a smart way of going about things. Wouldn't want them to say something and be unsure that it will come to fruition.
All it will take is patience, they'll let us know what is done and ready to go into each build. They'll keep us updated automatically, we don't have to ask, they'll be excited to let us know, I would imagine. So just take it easy (or as easy as you can take it, my heart races when I think of being able to play) and watch.
Hi, I highlighted your key line in yellow. In truth, in pure marketing terms, that's simply not true. There is no reason not to discuss all features - so long as they are presented properly. 'This is stuff that will be in...', 'This is stuff we want to be in...', 'This is stuff that will change as we go...' Releasing this kind of information isn't commercially sensitive or patent protected - this is an industry where technology and features are common.
And the point is, again in pure marketing terms, telling potential consumers about the product in full even as it is under development is actually a strong positive since it builds loyalty and buy-in and it removes confusion and suspicion. Following this policy has made Apple, for example, have super-smash successes with its iPods and iPads. And the reveals are still as powerful as ever because when the product is actually uinveiled, consumers get to see 'in the flesh' what has onloy been talked about 'in abstract'.
They've told us what is already in the current build (the stuff they announced since they actually brought the site up), they hint at what they have planned (mentioned space content being worked on, crafting being worked on and such) and I'm sure that if there are any changes that actually affect us that much it will be announced a good amount of time beforehand.
See, you mentioned being from a marketing standpoint, which would you rather have? Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Both.
Wouldn't we all? That's kind of being naive though, you know? Have your cake and eat it too type of stuff. Yes, I'm sure we would all like to know both the stuff that's 100% sure and the possibilites of what could be in there. Though, I think there were some companies that tried doing that and upped it so far that they couldn't reach that pinnacle. I think, even from a marketing standpoint, it would be a far more sane policy to release the sure things and talk about the possibilities (like when I think it was Vogel that mentioned space content) than to say "yeah, we're going to have this and that and it'll be awesome" only to find it not in any build.
I'm kind of getting impatient as well, but I know that like most good things in life, you have to wait.
The master plan behind this is to get hughe BOX sales. They are to stupid to understand what kind of game the gaming comunity wants that they are trying to get as high a box sale as possible. If they sell a million boxes the first week they would have gotten alot of thier revenue back. They know by now that this is going to be epic fail but they are to late into production to stop now. So they blow smoke screens in our face to make us pick up the BOX.
In the End its not about making a good game but to cash in on the only viable market left on the PC that is the MMO market. all other games get Pirated, so most developers for single player games have gone over to consols. But the MMO is still a market they can Tap and getting hughe sales the first week will help them get the money they spent on development back fast. Also a few dumb F...ks will stay past the first month making a net profit for EA and Bioware..... who cares what happens after that Bioware sure dont... trust me
You realize that it's Bioware right? They've still retained their independence for the most part. EA is obviously not rushing or pressuring them into the releasing the game, so I fail to understand your logic. They've created some of the most celebrated RPGs of all time.
What have the track records of other companys that have made "good" MMOs? Oh that's right, most companys making them these days have no experience.
I have read and heard that red lined statment before. You know what game forum it was on pree release. THE WAR FORUMS. NO EA IS LETTING US HAVE MORE TIME THEY ARNT STRESSING US AT ALL!! says Marc Jacobs CEO of mythic entertainment. What happend? if you dont remember I will fill you in. The game launched with missing content a subpar PvP system and crapy game design.
ho so you know Marc Jacobs also got fired.... that is what happens when you mess things up
EA can't be trusted they are a bunch of suits who know nothing about games.....
Can't agree with that considering EA hands down had the best E3 showing of any publisher. As far as WAR goes that game would have needed another 3 years in dev time to be ready. Mythic lost most of their DAOC core team before WAR. It was a horrible engine to build a game upon in 05. I watched that game literally get nowhere in a year of closed beta. It was always plagued with bugs and poor combat that has nothing to do with EA that has to do with a crappy dev team. If it wasnt for EA they probably wouldnt have gotten that extra dev time they did get.
The master plan behind this is to get hughe BOX sales. They are to stupid to understand what kind of game the gaming comunity wants that they are trying to get as high a box sale as possible. If they sell a million boxes the first week they would have gotten alot of thier revenue back. They know by now that this is going to be epic fail but they are to late into production to stop now. So they blow smoke screens in our face to make us pick up the BOX.
In the End its not about making a good game but to cash in on the only viable market left on the PC that is the MMO market. all other games get Pirated, so most developers for single player games have gone over to consols. But the MMO is still a market they can Tap and getting hughe sales the first week will help them get the money they spent on development back fast. Also a few dumb F...ks will stay past the first month making a net profit for EA and Bioware..... who cares what happens after that Bioware sure dont... trust me
It's going to be an epic fail eh? Let me borrow your crystal ball, so I can discover the winning lottery numbers.
Set for release next year, plenty of things to do in the meantime. It only stands to reason that there are going to be things that can't be talked about in full detail or even some detail in some aspects. I think they have their feet planted pretty firm in that they're releasing information that they know for sure as opposed to making promises they can't keep. I think it's a smart way of going about things. Wouldn't want them to say something and be unsure that it will come to fruition.
All it will take is patience, they'll let us know what is done and ready to go into each build. They'll keep us updated automatically, we don't have to ask, they'll be excited to let us know, I would imagine. So just take it easy (or as easy as you can take it, my heart races when I think of being able to play) and watch.
Hi, I highlighted your key line in yellow. In truth, in pure marketing terms, that's simply not true. There is no reason not to discuss all features - so long as they are presented properly. 'This is stuff that will be in...', 'This is stuff we want to be in...', 'This is stuff that will change as we go...' Releasing this kind of information isn't commercially sensitive or patent protected - this is an industry where technology and features are common.
And the point is, again in pure marketing terms, telling potential consumers about the product in full even as it is under development is actually a strong positive since it builds loyalty and buy-in and it removes confusion and suspicion. Following this policy has made Apple, for example, have super-smash successes with its iPods and iPads. And the reveals are still as powerful as ever because when the product is actually uinveiled, consumers get to see 'in the flesh' what has onloy been talked about 'in abstract'.
They've told us what is already in the current build (the stuff they announced since they actually brought the site up), they hint at what they have planned (mentioned space content being worked on, crafting being worked on and such) and I'm sure that if there are any changes that actually affect us that much it will be announced a good amount of time beforehand.
See, you mentioned being from a marketing standpoint, which would you rather have? Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Both.
Wouldn't we all? That's kind of being naive though, you know? Have your cake and eat it too type of stuff. Yes, I'm sure we would all like to know both the stuff that's 100% sure and the possibilites of what could be in there. Though, I think there were some companies that tried doing that and upped it so far that they couldn't reach that pinnacle. I think, even from a marketing standpoint, it would be a far more sane policy to release the sure things and talk about the possibilities (like when I think it was Vogel that mentioned space content) than to say "yeah, we're going to have this and that and it'll be awesome" only to find it not in any build.
I'm kind of getting impatient as well, but I know that like most good things in life, you have to wait.
Information is not a 'cake' though. It is not consumed in use. And there can be more than one type of information - in thos case, 'things we can be certain will be in the game' and 'things we are hoping to put in the game', See?
They are pouring all of their time, effort, and money into fully voice-acting a storyline. Something that is a complete waste of time for an MMO. After you blast through the single player portion of the game (the completely unnecessary voice-acted storyline), you will be left with an average tab-target MMO based on the raped-to-death Star Wars franchise.
They don't talk, because there's nothing to tell.
Yes because all those non tab targeting games have been a massive success. Voice acting makes things more immersive and a story line adds a whole new level to MMOs. One of my favorite things in LOTRO was the main storyline even though it wasn't on the level of a SP game. So many jaded MMO players on this site that will NEVER be happy with ANY MMO.
The game is still in development. I work in software development myself (not games, but still), it's called managing expectations. You don't promise a feature until it's in. Otherwise it comes back to bite you.
The problem is they can't win either way. If they tell the community about a feature and it changes before release...they get criticized. If they don't release details...they get criticized.
Try giving Apple a call and asking them about details of their next release.
Set for release next year, plenty of things to do in the meantime. It only stands to reason that there are going to be things that can't be talked about in full detail or even some detail in some aspects. I think they have their feet planted pretty firm in that they're releasing information that they know for sure as opposed to making promises they can't keep. I think it's a smart way of going about things. Wouldn't want them to say something and be unsure that it will come to fruition.
All it will take is patience, they'll let us know what is done and ready to go into each build. They'll keep us updated automatically, we don't have to ask, they'll be excited to let us know, I would imagine. So just take it easy (or as easy as you can take it, my heart races when I think of being able to play) and watch.
Hi, I highlighted your key line in yellow. In truth, in pure marketing terms, that's simply not true. There is no reason not to discuss all features - so long as they are presented properly. 'This is stuff that will be in...', 'This is stuff we want to be in...', 'This is stuff that will change as we go...' Releasing this kind of information isn't commercially sensitive or patent protected - this is an industry where technology and features are common.
And the point is, again in pure marketing terms, telling potential consumers about the product in full even as it is under development is actually a strong positive since it builds loyalty and buy-in and it removes confusion and suspicion. Following this policy has made Apple, for example, have super-smash successes with its iPods and iPads. And the reveals are still as powerful as ever because when the product is actually uinveiled, consumers get to see 'in the flesh' what has onloy been talked about 'in abstract'.
They've told us what is already in the current build (the stuff they announced since they actually brought the site up), they hint at what they have planned (mentioned space content being worked on, crafting being worked on and such) and I'm sure that if there are any changes that actually affect us that much it will be announced a good amount of time beforehand.
See, you mentioned being from a marketing standpoint, which would you rather have? Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Possibili what's done 100%ties that may or may not be in the build that hits shelf (or even beta) or would you prefer them to tell you?
Both.
Wouldn't we all? That's kind of being naive though, you know? Have your cake and eat it too type of stuff. Yes, I'm sure we would all like to know both the stuff that's 100% sure and the possibilites of what could be in there. Though, I think there were some companies that tried doing that and upped it so far that they couldn't reach that pinnacle. I think, even from a marketing standpoint, it would be a far more sane policy to release the sure things and talk about the possibilities (like when I think it was Vogel that mentioned space content) than to say "yeah, we're going to have this and that and it'll be awesome" only to find it not in any build.
I'm kind of getting impatient as well, but I know that like most good things in life, you have to wait.
Information is not a 'cake' though. It is not consumed in use. And there can be more than one type of information - in thos case, 'things we can be certain will be in the game' and 'things we are hoping to put in the game', See?
Information can be 'consumed' by way of learning it's context and yes, I know that there are two types of information being talked about here. That doesn't change the fact that this policy they have been abiding by is not only keeping people up to day (albeit it slowly) it is also keeping a spotlight on the game. Notice how talk about the game has been increasing? Like I've said, I know it would be nice to know it all. I really don't know what else to tell you. They're doing what they're doing because it tells us what they have done and what they are working on. E3 was just the start, we still have a while to go before beta maybe, so that means more updating to be had and more info to come out.
All there is to it. End of story. I don't know why you are wanting them to overstep themselves and say something that doesn't get put in and have egg on their face. I want the game to suceed, I want to have a fun Star Wars game to play, I want to be able to run with my old SWG guild in full swing again. So you see, I don't mind them taking it slow and giving information that's a certainty. On the other hand people would be a little more than pissed if they announced all this stuff and didn't follow through.
If Bioware starts mouthing off about their great features they have in their game. If they go into extreme detail, guess who is going to take those ideas, change them to fit them for their game, and add the little "bit" to it?
WoW will. They may not make it "better" in your eyes, but they would change it so that more people would eat it up in their game, thus holding more people in.
They JUST started beta for Cata. I don't see how they could have gotten so much feedback from the player base about path of the Titans, about guild leveling, and about the new profession, since it was entierly a friends/family Alpha phase that it was in. They took it out for other reasons.
Would I enjoy a lot more information. Hell yes. Would I be pretty freaking pissed off if they told me tommorrow that Space is in, and come two weeks before release, it will be added later? God yes I would be.
If they told me now, that PvP is just CTF/Hold the point/etc with Open world PvP, and then suddenly changed it to only 4v4 instances that you queue for on a certain planet, I would be just as unhappy.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump.
Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process.
Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them.
Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
Chances are, you and most everyone currently playing wow will get the Xpac. Why? Just because the goblins have cool cars and can jump? That's a very silly notion. You buy it because it's a game you have enjoyed, and those gamers have also. They have years of being able to work on the game, and the expansion. They know that if they cancelled goblins/worgen tommorrow, they would still be the #1 MMO in the world. They would not lose 11 million + people. I doubt they'd lose 50,000 people. It's the biggest game out. It's the most well known mmo out. They have you and many others in their bag. I was in that bag at a time. It's a fun bag, don't get me wrong. Blizzard can do basically anything they want, and the players will eat it up.
If TOR were to announce space now, and a few weeks before release say "We can't put it in yet", do you know how many people they would lose over that?
There was a time, that they were no where near superb in keeping people up to date. Where they talked about changes, but did not do them. Or they added "new icons for this skill" and said it was something worthy of being put into a patch. The FEW "consumers" of Wow who actually pay close attention to the changes in the game are far outnumbered by those who just enjoy PLAYING the game. Because of blizzards position, they need not worry about what they say will be in, and when. Because they still have "loyal consumers" who enjoy playing the game, not worrying about what may or may not be added. They will get what is added when the Xpac releases and will love it.
It's great that you think being on your soap box of "knowing" the economics/market/feelings/etc of a game makes you correct.
SWTOR has to try to make a name for itself. SWTOR has to compete with the constant "lol TOR = wow2.0" or "OMGZ THIS ISNT HOW IT IS IN WOW". If TOR does not come through on something now and at release, guess what? They lose people at release. Guess what that means? Granted, I know you know, since you are Mr. Marketing, but I'll help others out. When you and me leave because a few of the big things we wanted aren't in that they said would be, that affects all those we would have played with. Our friends, our family, our guild, the new people we would have met. The less people that try a game and enjoy it, the less that will. An almost snowball sort of effect. Instead of telling some of our gaming friends, "Omg! come check this out", you play something else. Or maybe you tell them to stay away from it, without going into detail. They have gamed with you before, and believe you.
As I said before, I would love to know everything they are going to put into the game. I am not going to hold my breath, or sit on the forums complaining about not knowing. I will find out eventually over the next year. Now I don't know about you, but they said "Spring" 2011 (Granted, they also said Q2 2011). Spring does not officially end till the 21st. That seems like it could be anywhere from 9 months to over 12 months. And games are never pushed back as they approach the deadline right? :P Beta will start eventually, and there will be tons and tons and tons of information pouring out.
Anybody who played WoW since the beginning knows that Blizz was tightlipped about a ton of things till around the time(just before) they started beta. Last i checked it was thier first MMO too, after only doing a handful of other games.
Bioware started the KOTOR story franchise just as Blizz started warcraft thou different genres, only one was started as a RPG and it wasnt Blizz's.
Blizzard was bought up by a huge french media conglomerate Vivindi (who knew nothing of video games), and then later merged into the activision blizzard group, just as EA (who had been the biggest/successful game company before then) bought up bioware and put them in the same group with mythic. Still seperate entities for the most part...
Do you see where this is going? Its all about business, yes people will whine and complain about every little thing.......god knows how many times things have changed over the last 5 years for Blizz that people were on the forums complaining about. But without even starting into beta people are jumping at every little flaw or thing they dont like in a grand total of 20 mins of actual footage of SWTOR.
I wont even go into what was promised at release of WoW and what we didnt get, and what took easily 6 months to actually get into the game,oh and despite common belief it took nearly a year to hit 1million players. An MMO's success does not hinge on it having 11 million subscribers (even if 6+ million of them have never played WOTLK yet)..Most of the games that came out before WoW are still around, many have had tons of expansions too which arent normally done for free..so they must have been successful.... Its an MMO they arent like regular games so live with it.
If you dont like something just dont play it.
How about waiting a couple weeks to see what happens now that E3 is wrapped up hmmm, a few months maybe? Oh sorry i forgot patience is not a virtue of a gamer, they want instant gratification nowadays..
And to note im NOT a fanboi of SWTOR, I am a fan of MMO's and ive played most of the Major MMO's since Ultima Online, and still play 4 of them including WoW to this day. Tell me an MMO that doesnt have any flaws and i will tell you that you're full of it.
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you sure as F(^%# can't please all of the people all of the time.
Sorry about the length , some reason i had alot to say and this is not attacking anyone just my view on the discussion.
Originally posted by storyless Originally posted by Swanea Thank god it's your personal opinion! If Bioware starts mouthing off about their great features they have in their game. If they go into extreme detail, guess who is going to take those ideas, change them to fit them for their game, and add the little "bit" to it? WoW will. They may not make it "better" in your eyes, but they would change it so that more people would eat it up in their game, thus holding more people in. They JUST started beta for Cata. I don't see how they could have gotten so much feedback from the player base about path of the Titans, about guild leveling, and about the new profession, since it was entierly a friends/family Alpha phase that it was in. They took it out for other reasons. Would I enjoy a lot more information. Hell yes. Would I be pretty freaking pissed off if they told me tommorrow that Space is in, and come two weeks before release, it will be added later? God yes I would be. If they told me now, that PvP is just CTF/Hold the point/etc with Open world PvP, and then suddenly changed it to only 4v4 instances that you queue for on a certain planet, I would be just as unhappy.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump. Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process. Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them. Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat.
And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make.
It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
If Bioware starts mouthing off about their great features they have in their game. If they go into extreme detail, guess who is going to take those ideas, change them to fit them for their game, and add the little "bit" to it?
WoW will. They may not make it "better" in your eyes, but they would change it so that more people would eat it up in their game, thus holding more people in.
They JUST started beta for Cata. I don't see how they could have gotten so much feedback from the player base about path of the Titans, about guild leveling, and about the new profession, since it was entierly a friends/family Alpha phase that it was in. They took it out for other reasons.
Would I enjoy a lot more information. Hell yes. Would I be pretty freaking pissed off if they told me tommorrow that Space is in, and come two weeks before release, it will be added later? God yes I would be.
If they told me now, that PvP is just CTF/Hold the point/etc with Open world PvP, and then suddenly changed it to only 4v4 instances that you queue for on a certain planet, I would be just as unhappy.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump.
Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process.
Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them.
Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat.
And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make.
It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they restructured 2 features from Cata, pissing off people who only read thread titles.
Remember what happened when a bunch of the stuff they promised wasn't in the game?
Remember that some of those Mythic guys are working at Bioware now?
You think they want to make the same mistake?
We should applaud them.
Pretty much my thoughts, I was all hyped to buy Warhammer Online, got in a premade guild and put a lot of time communicating with it. Warhammer Online announced they were cutting back on some of their release promises. I never picked up the game.
Same thing is happening recently with WOW, as Blizzard has stated several of the new expansion systems won't be in the expansion. I'd rather SW:TOR tell us what they know will be in the game for sure, not for them to act like an immature Mythic telling me their game is better than slice bread because of these 50,000 features.
Remember what happened when a bunch of the stuff they promised wasn't in the game?
Remember that some of those Mythic guys are working at Bioware now?
You think they want to make the same mistake?
We should applaud them.
Same thing is happening recently with WOW, as Blizzard has stated several of the new expansion systems won't be in the expansion.
I like how the words "several" and "many" are used to bloat the actual situation. The systems weren't removed, they were changed because it *gasp* wasn't a fun feature. Guild Talents are still in they just aren't chooseable, rather they are given on a Guild Level basis. The PotT was changed because they didnt feel the implementation of it was that fun so they decided to enhance the glyph system.
If you can't even read that much into those things, no wonder you got wrapped up into Warhammer. BTW, the beta was the funnest part of the game, people actually played the way it was meant to be played. Then retail hit and the game sucked because everyone follows the path of least resistance and greatest reward.
My point is the best course of action for both WAR and WOW would be to not talk about anything thats not 100% in the game yet. Even if it's a good decision to remove the system, consumers may feel a little betrayed because they might be missing out on something.
I don't follow or play WOW so I really don't care if it's many or one feature that was removed. I think it's important to know the one thing I remember hearing about Cataclysm is they are removing previously promised content.
I don't follow or play WOW so I really don't care if it's many or one feature that was removed. I think it's important to know the one thing I remember hearing about Cataclysm is they are removing previously promised content.
You either heard wrong or the thing you "remembered hearing" you didn't actually remember. Remove != change. I think all that happened (since you already placed your stance at not caring about WoW that much) is that you saw a thread title exclaiming "WOW CATA FEATURES REMOVED" or some form and now that's the truth. I don't go around saying lots of things just because I heard them, it makes me look like an idiot if I do. Which brings me to the present.
uhhh it's a year away guys... I'm going to forget about this game for like 8 months or so and then come back and probably hear the same garbage that's going on right now
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... more like 10 months actually if you count May as the last spring month.
Didn't Beavis and Butthead say "uhhhhh" alot?
Just sayin'.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Innovation doesn't necessary equal new classes and new classes don't necessarily equal innovation. NEW THINGS THAT HAVE NOT DONE BEFORE = innovation.
First game to be fully voice-acted dialogue = innovation. And that is the majority of the information we know so far. If this doesn't captivate you, then look elsewhere; Why flame and flame this game as if you paid money for it and are vastly affected by its existence?
Okey this is my main reason for saying the things I do. I said it on the WAR closed Beta forums that the game would not work, I a said it on the OPen forum that the game would not WORK! I said that AOC would not work in the closed beta forums, I said that AOC would not work on the open Beta forums.
HOW COME I ALWAYS GET IT AND THE STUPID DEVELOPERS DON'T. Am I smarter then them? am I smarter then you? I dont know but again and again in my life I can see two steps head of other pleople, I use this to get rich in IRL. But Iv come to the breaking point when it comes to games, again and again you see the same mistake repeat themselfs and you watch in whonder and amazment when the developers are suprised it dident work... And soon you start asking yourself AM I just smarter then other people and can the rest of humanity realy be that dumb?
I ask you when SW TOR Fails will you listen to me next time I say a game wont work and wont successed? I have made a hattrick twize over with fails like Tebula RASA, Vanguard saga of heroes and many others under my belt of predicted failures that also have crashed and burned.
Bottom line is Im SOO F....King tired of BEING RIGHT ALL THE TIME IT HURTS MY BRAIN!
It's standard for gaming companies to keep their mouth shut about half-assed features they have or those features that are not even included.
For example I had no clue how instanced AoC is until I played it.
I had no clue how grindy AION will be (allthough I had my suspicions).
STO, I was expecting limonade MMO but I had no clue it will be THAT bad.
I never played WAR but I believe they were waiting until the last moment to tell gamers that half of the promised features will not be included?
Etc.
Dont believe developers too much.
You either have to learn to read between the lines and draw own logical conclusions or try to enter Beta and see for yourself.
If everything fails you'll get hastled for 50 bucks or so and that's that.
Your failure to realise just how instanced AOC was wasn't because of the devs keeping quiet. They said time and time again that the game was using a modified version of their Dreamworld engine which is used on Anarchy Online and that has the world split into "zones" as well.
As for Aion being "grindy", well that is the nature of many Asian MMO's. The Asians love to grind, whereas we westerners expect something more.
However, its wise to be sceptical about what you hear from devs. Of course, one shouldn't completely disbelieve the devs eithers. So, if you are sceptical but willing to keep an open mind then you learn to manage your expectations. The only true time when you fully understand the full nature of an MMO is when YOU try it.
Unfortunately, some on these forums are so full of their own self importance and hatred for certain MMOs and playstyles, that they will denounce a game long before its launch date, jumping to conclusions and making assumptions based on very little fact.
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They are pouring all of their time, effort, and money into fully voice-acting a storyline. Something that is a complete waste of time for an MMO. After you blast through the single player portion of the game (the completely unnecessary voice-acted storyline), you will be left with an average tab-target MMO based on the raped-to-death Star Wars franchise.
They don't talk, because there's nothing to tell.
Why bother posting your garbage?
If you don't like it, don't play it.
Wouldn't we all? That's kind of being naive though, you know? Have your cake and eat it too type of stuff. Yes, I'm sure we would all like to know both the stuff that's 100% sure and the possibilites of what could be in there. Though, I think there were some companies that tried doing that and upped it so far that they couldn't reach that pinnacle. I think, even from a marketing standpoint, it would be a far more sane policy to release the sure things and talk about the possibilities (like when I think it was Vogel that mentioned space content) than to say "yeah, we're going to have this and that and it'll be awesome" only to find it not in any build.
I'm kind of getting impatient as well, but I know that like most good things in life, you have to wait.
Can't agree with that considering EA hands down had the best E3 showing of any publisher. As far as WAR goes that game would have needed another 3 years in dev time to be ready. Mythic lost most of their DAOC core team before WAR. It was a horrible engine to build a game upon in 05. I watched that game literally get nowhere in a year of closed beta. It was always plagued with bugs and poor combat that has nothing to do with EA that has to do with a crappy dev team. If it wasnt for EA they probably wouldnt have gotten that extra dev time they did get.
It's going to be an epic fail eh? Let me borrow your crystal ball, so I can discover the winning lottery numbers.
Information is not a 'cake' though. It is not consumed in use. And there can be more than one type of information - in thos case, 'things we can be certain will be in the game' and 'things we are hoping to put in the game', See?
Yes because all those non tab targeting games have been a massive success. Voice acting makes things more immersive and a story line adds a whole new level to MMOs. One of my favorite things in LOTRO was the main storyline even though it wasn't on the level of a SP game. So many jaded MMO players on this site that will NEVER be happy with ANY MMO.
The game is still in development. I work in software development myself (not games, but still), it's called managing expectations. You don't promise a feature until it's in. Otherwise it comes back to bite you.
The problem is they can't win either way. If they tell the community about a feature and it changes before release...they get criticized. If they don't release details...they get criticized.
Try giving Apple a call and asking them about details of their next release.
Information can be 'consumed' by way of learning it's context and yes, I know that there are two types of information being talked about here. That doesn't change the fact that this policy they have been abiding by is not only keeping people up to day (albeit it slowly) it is also keeping a spotlight on the game. Notice how talk about the game has been increasing? Like I've said, I know it would be nice to know it all. I really don't know what else to tell you. They're doing what they're doing because it tells us what they have done and what they are working on. E3 was just the start, we still have a while to go before beta maybe, so that means more updating to be had and more info to come out.
All there is to it. End of story. I don't know why you are wanting them to overstep themselves and say something that doesn't get put in and have egg on their face. I want the game to suceed, I want to have a fun Star Wars game to play, I want to be able to run with my old SWG guild in full swing again. So you see, I don't mind them taking it slow and giving information that's a certainty. On the other hand people would be a little more than pissed if they announced all this stuff and didn't follow through.
Chances are, you and most everyone currently playing wow will get the Xpac. Why? Just because the goblins have cool cars and can jump? That's a very silly notion. You buy it because it's a game you have enjoyed, and those gamers have also. They have years of being able to work on the game, and the expansion. They know that if they cancelled goblins/worgen tommorrow, they would still be the #1 MMO in the world. They would not lose 11 million + people. I doubt they'd lose 50,000 people. It's the biggest game out. It's the most well known mmo out. They have you and many others in their bag. I was in that bag at a time. It's a fun bag, don't get me wrong. Blizzard can do basically anything they want, and the players will eat it up.
If TOR were to announce space now, and a few weeks before release say "We can't put it in yet", do you know how many people they would lose over that?
There was a time, that they were no where near superb in keeping people up to date. Where they talked about changes, but did not do them. Or they added "new icons for this skill" and said it was something worthy of being put into a patch. The FEW "consumers" of Wow who actually pay close attention to the changes in the game are far outnumbered by those who just enjoy PLAYING the game. Because of blizzards position, they need not worry about what they say will be in, and when. Because they still have "loyal consumers" who enjoy playing the game, not worrying about what may or may not be added. They will get what is added when the Xpac releases and will love it.
It's great that you think being on your soap box of "knowing" the economics/market/feelings/etc of a game makes you correct.
SWTOR has to try to make a name for itself. SWTOR has to compete with the constant "lol TOR = wow2.0" or "OMGZ THIS ISNT HOW IT IS IN WOW". If TOR does not come through on something now and at release, guess what? They lose people at release. Guess what that means? Granted, I know you know, since you are Mr. Marketing, but I'll help others out. When you and me leave because a few of the big things we wanted aren't in that they said would be, that affects all those we would have played with. Our friends, our family, our guild, the new people we would have met. The less people that try a game and enjoy it, the less that will. An almost snowball sort of effect. Instead of telling some of our gaming friends, "Omg! come check this out", you play something else. Or maybe you tell them to stay away from it, without going into detail. They have gamed with you before, and believe you.
As I said before, I would love to know everything they are going to put into the game. I am not going to hold my breath, or sit on the forums complaining about not knowing. I will find out eventually over the next year. Now I don't know about you, but they said "Spring" 2011 (Granted, they also said Q2 2011). Spring does not officially end till the 21st. That seems like it could be anywhere from 9 months to over 12 months. And games are never pushed back as they approach the deadline right? :P Beta will start eventually, and there will be tons and tons and tons of information pouring out.
Bioware is not bound, in any way, to really say anything. And, I don't understand the self-entitlement shown on the main post.
I think it's great that they share anything with us and I welcome them being forthcoming with new information.
Not sure why i am bothering but.....
Anybody who played WoW since the beginning knows that Blizz was tightlipped about a ton of things till around the time(just before) they started beta. Last i checked it was thier first MMO too, after only doing a handful of other games.
Bioware started the KOTOR story franchise just as Blizz started warcraft thou different genres, only one was started as a RPG and it wasnt Blizz's.
Blizzard was bought up by a huge french media conglomerate Vivindi (who knew nothing of video games), and then later merged into the activision blizzard group, just as EA (who had been the biggest/successful game company before then) bought up bioware and put them in the same group with mythic. Still seperate entities for the most part...
Do you see where this is going? Its all about business, yes people will whine and complain about every little thing.......god knows how many times things have changed over the last 5 years for Blizz that people were on the forums complaining about. But without even starting into beta people are jumping at every little flaw or thing they dont like in a grand total of 20 mins of actual footage of SWTOR.
I wont even go into what was promised at release of WoW and what we didnt get, and what took easily 6 months to actually get into the game,oh and despite common belief it took nearly a year to hit 1million players. An MMO's success does not hinge on it having 11 million subscribers (even if 6+ million of them have never played WOTLK yet)..Most of the games that came out before WoW are still around, many have had tons of expansions too which arent normally done for free..so they must have been successful.... Its an MMO they arent like regular games so live with it.
If you dont like something just dont play it.
How about waiting a couple weeks to see what happens now that E3 is wrapped up hmmm, a few months maybe? Oh sorry i forgot patience is not a virtue of a gamer, they want instant gratification nowadays..
And to note im NOT a fanboi of SWTOR, I am a fan of MMO's and ive played most of the Major MMO's since Ultima Online, and still play 4 of them including WoW to this day. Tell me an MMO that doesnt have any flaws and i will tell you that you're full of it.
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you sure as F(^%# can't please all of the people all of the time.
Sorry about the length , some reason i had alot to say and this is not attacking anyone just my view on the discussion.
Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process.
Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them.
Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat.
And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make.
It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
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LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they restructured 2 features from Cata, pissing off people who only read thread titles.
It's a shame people can't read for themselves.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Remember Warhammer Online?
Remember all the promises they made?
Remember what happened when a bunch of the stuff they promised wasn't in the game?
Remember that some of those Mythic guys are working at Bioware now?
You think they want to make the same mistake?
We should applaud them.
Pretty much my thoughts, I was all hyped to buy Warhammer Online, got in a premade guild and put a lot of time communicating with it. Warhammer Online announced they were cutting back on some of their release promises. I never picked up the game.
Same thing is happening recently with WOW, as Blizzard has stated several of the new expansion systems won't be in the expansion. I'd rather SW:TOR tell us what they know will be in the game for sure, not for them to act like an immature Mythic telling me their game is better than slice bread because of these 50,000 features.
I like how the words "several" and "many" are used to bloat the actual situation. The systems weren't removed, they were changed because it *gasp* wasn't a fun feature. Guild Talents are still in they just aren't chooseable, rather they are given on a Guild Level basis. The PotT was changed because they didnt feel the implementation of it was that fun so they decided to enhance the glyph system.
If you can't even read that much into those things, no wonder you got wrapped up into Warhammer. BTW, the beta was the funnest part of the game, people actually played the way it was meant to be played. Then retail hit and the game sucked because everyone follows the path of least resistance and greatest reward.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
My point is the best course of action for both WAR and WOW would be to not talk about anything thats not 100% in the game yet. Even if it's a good decision to remove the system, consumers may feel a little betrayed because they might be missing out on something.
I don't follow or play WOW so I really don't care if it's many or one feature that was removed. I think it's important to know the one thing I remember hearing about Cataclysm is they are removing previously promised content.
You either heard wrong or the thing you "remembered hearing" you didn't actually remember. Remove != change. I think all that happened (since you already placed your stance at not caring about WoW that much) is that you saw a thread title exclaiming "WOW CATA FEATURES REMOVED" or some form and now that's the truth. I don't go around saying lots of things just because I heard them, it makes me look like an idiot if I do. Which brings me to the present.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
sometimes as a buiness you cant tell whats in the secret sauce. or whats the point of another burger joint?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... more like 10 months actually if you count May as the last spring month.
Didn't Beavis and Butthead say "uhhhhh" alot?
Just sayin'.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Okey this is my main reason for saying the things I do. I said it on the WAR closed Beta forums that the game would not work, I a said it on the OPen forum that the game would not WORK! I said that AOC would not work in the closed beta forums, I said that AOC would not work on the open Beta forums.
HOW COME I ALWAYS GET IT AND THE STUPID DEVELOPERS DON'T. Am I smarter then them? am I smarter then you? I dont know but again and again in my life I can see two steps head of other pleople, I use this to get rich in IRL. But Iv come to the breaking point when it comes to games, again and again you see the same mistake repeat themselfs and you watch in whonder and amazment when the developers are suprised it dident work... And soon you start asking yourself AM I just smarter then other people and can the rest of humanity realy be that dumb?
I ask you when SW TOR Fails will you listen to me next time I say a game wont work and wont successed? I have made a hattrick twize over with fails like Tebula RASA, Vanguard saga of heroes and many others under my belt of predicted failures that also have crashed and burned.
Bottom line is Im SOO F....King tired of BEING RIGHT ALL THE TIME IT HURTS MY BRAIN!
The special sauce is always mayonnaise plus thousand island dressing. So much for that eternal secret!
It's standard for gaming companies to keep their mouth shut about half-assed features they have or those features that are not even included.
For example I had no clue how instanced AoC is until I played it.
I had no clue how grindy AION will be (allthough I had my suspicions).
STO, I was expecting limonade MMO but I had no clue it will be THAT bad.
I never played WAR but I believe they were waiting until the last moment to tell gamers that half of the promised features will not be included?
Etc.
Dont believe developers too much.
You either have to learn to read between the lines and draw own logical conclusions or try to enter Beta and see for yourself.
If everything fails you'll get hastled for 50 bucks or so (250ish for STO life-sub suckers lol) and that's that.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Your failure to realise just how instanced AOC was wasn't because of the devs keeping quiet. They said time and time again that the game was using a modified version of their Dreamworld engine which is used on Anarchy Online and that has the world split into "zones" as well.
As for Aion being "grindy", well that is the nature of many Asian MMO's. The Asians love to grind, whereas we westerners expect something more.
However, its wise to be sceptical about what you hear from devs. Of course, one shouldn't completely disbelieve the devs eithers. So, if you are sceptical but willing to keep an open mind then you learn to manage your expectations. The only true time when you fully understand the full nature of an MMO is when YOU try it.
Unfortunately, some on these forums are so full of their own self importance and hatred for certain MMOs and playstyles, that they will denounce a game long before its launch date, jumping to conclusions and making assumptions based on very little fact.
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