sometimes as a buiness you cant tell whats in the secret sauce. or whats the point of another burger joint?
On top of that, often the customer himself doesn't really know what he wants! Yes he will yell loud he likes the sauce only with this and that, but is quite surprised when that secret sauce which is entirely different actually is a blast!
Base judgement on experience, not videos, interviews or screenshots. That can be misleading in both ways.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Cause everyone is an Armchair developer, more than half im sure of the people who post on the forums have no idea what it takes to create a computer game like this. They have some preconcieved notion that it is easy to change things on thier whim but not knowing what the actual Engine or anything can do.
As for the fact they cant talk about things yes..its annoying for most, but guess what anything they do say could change on a daily basis, and say they did mention oh yes we have space and you can fly........but then 2 months later they say no you wont be able to we just dont have time to flesh it out. Which is worse? Wasting the time on what they couldnt do or waiting till they know for sure?
The master plan behind this is to get hughe BOX sales. They are to stupid to understand what kind of game the gaming comunity wants that they are trying to get as high a box sale as possible. If they sell a million boxes the first week they would have gotten alot of thier revenue back. They know by now that this is going to be epic fail but they are to late into production to stop now. So they blow smoke screens in our face to make us pick up the BOX.
In the End its not about making a good game but to cash in on the only viable market left on the PC that is the MMO market. all other games get Pirated, so most developers for single player games have gone over to consols. But the MMO is still a market they can Tap and getting hughe sales the first week will help them get the money they spent on development back fast. Also a few dumb F...ks will stay past the first month making a net profit for EA and Bioware..... who cares what happens after that Bioware sure dont... trust me
I have just been convinced you have no clue what you're talking about
Set for release next year, plenty of things to do in the meantime. It only stands to reason that there are going to be things that can't be talked about in full detail or even some detail in some aspects. I think they have their feet planted pretty firm in that they're releasing information that they know for sure as opposed to making promises they can't keep. I think it's a smart way of going about things. Wouldn't want them to say something and be unsure that it will come to fruition.
All it will take is patience, they'll let us know what is done and ready to go into each build. They'll keep us updated automatically, we don't have to ask, they'll be excited to let us know, I would imagine. So just take it easy (or as easy as you can take it, my heart races when I think of being able to play) and watch.
Hi, I highlighted your key line in yellow. In truth, in pure marketing terms, that's simply not true. There is no reason not to discuss all features - so long as they are presented properly. 'This is stuff that will be in...', 'This is stuff we want to be in...', 'This is stuff that will change as we go...' Releasing this kind of information isn't commercially sensitive or patent protected - this is an industry where technology and features are common.
And the point is, again in pure marketing terms, telling potential consumers about the product in full even as it is under development is actually a strong positive since it builds loyalty and buy-in and it removes confusion and suspicion. Following this policy has made Apple, for example, have super-smash successes with its iPods and iPads. And the reveals are still as powerful as ever because when the product is actually uinveiled, consumers get to see 'in the flesh' what has onloy been talked about 'in abstract'.
Im gona go ahead and strongly disagree with you.
Features are added/removed/tweaked all the time. Its like with Fable, when Peter Molyneux said that tree's woud age with you. He said it as an aside, a little feature they were playing around wtih.
The community ran with it "the world ages", "you shape the ever changing world". Then when the tree idea was scrapped cause it added nothing to the game people would scream about his lies.
Limiting the information that gets out to just the finalized information is the only way to communicate without having PR nightmares, thats just a fact of life these days.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
One of the things that has frustrated me about this game is Bioware's information policy regarding its features. Every interview, it seems, is being interrupted by statements running along the lines of: 'I can't talk about that...', 'This is under discussion...', 'We're not ready to make an announcement'.
It's my personal belief that often these statements are being parroted out when the speaker actually means: 'I don't know' or 'It's not in the game'. There is, after all, no reason not to give out feature information at this stage. It's not commercially sensitive and it's not about keeping up interest in the game (interest has been high all along). As it stands, Bioware's policy of essentially saying: 'We're not telling you because we don't trust you' is kind of insulting. Certainly it's not the way forthcoming products are launched in sectors like automotive, fmcg and consumer electronics.
For myself, I would like Bioware to come out with regular statements - say, every quarter - that outline: 'This is what is in the game', 'This is what we want to put in the game', 'This is what we are working on in the game right now', 'This is what we have had to change/remove/add in', 'This is the current date we are hoping to launch'.
This means they could still have their regular Friday updates as well as their big tradeshow reveals as they show us work in progress and reveal details of the game coming to fruition.
It also means, the key stakeholders in the game - us, the potential customers - can 'buy in' to the game's ongoing progress
I'd like to know, who in Bioware, EA or LA is responsible for the current communications policy? Who is telling them what they can and can't say? What principles those intructions are based on? It's my belief commuinications decisions are not being made by a marketing professional but by a senior producer or developer who, poor chump, doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
Do you think Bioware is doing a good job with the management of its feature information?
Look at FFXIV development, you get the same thing.. Same with GW2 on some stuff.. They just aren't ready to release the info.
Your quarterly expectations of BioWare make me laugh.
1) This is what what is in the game - the moment they say this, it is set in stone as far as the community is concerned, and they will get crucified if they have to remove it, regadless of how valid the reason is.
2) This is what we want to put in the game - See #1
3) This is what we are working on right now - See #1
4) This is what we had to change/add/remove - See #1
5) This is our current expected date to launch - See #1
That pretty much sums it up.
I think BioWare is doing a fantastic job of managing it's feature information, in fact, I wish they'd keep even more to themselves.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
If Bioware starts mouthing off about their great features they have in their game. If they go into extreme detail, guess who is going to take those ideas, change them to fit them for their game, and add the little "bit" to it?
WoW will. They may not make it "better" in your eyes, but they would change it so that more people would eat it up in their game, thus holding more people in.
They JUST started beta for Cata. I don't see how they could have gotten so much feedback from the player base about path of the Titans, about guild leveling, and about the new profession, since it was entierly a friends/family Alpha phase that it was in. They took it out for other reasons.
Would I enjoy a lot more information. Hell yes. Would I be pretty freaking pissed off if they told me tommorrow that Space is in, and come two weeks before release, it will be added later? God yes I would be.
If they told me now, that PvP is just CTF/Hold the point/etc with Open world PvP, and then suddenly changed it to only 4v4 instances that you queue for on a certain planet, I would be just as unhappy.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump.
Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process.
Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them.
Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat.
And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make.
It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they restructured 2 features from Cata, pissing off people who only read thread titles.
It's a shame people can't read for themselves.
So people were pissed off? Doesn't matter how it happend. What does matter is blizzard prematurly released info, something BioWare is avoiding, if blizzard doesn't know its player base is already slightly below average intelligence this further shows Blizzards incompetance. Each WoW patch note should read "THINGS KINDA CHANGED". But by all means, continue on with defending piss poor methods in releasing non 100% correct information so you they can disapoint players later.
Originally posted by Benthon Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by storyless
Originally posted by Swanea Thank god it's your personal opinion! If Bioware starts mouthing off about their great features they have in their game. If they go into extreme detail, guess who is going to take those ideas, change them to fit them for their game, and add the little "bit" to it? WoW will. They may not make it "better" in your eyes, but they would change it so that more people would eat it up in their game, thus holding more people in. They JUST started beta for Cata. I don't see how they could have gotten so much feedback from the player base about path of the Titans, about guild leveling, and about the new profession, since it was entierly a friends/family Alpha phase that it was in. They took it out for other reasons. Would I enjoy a lot more information. Hell yes. Would I be pretty freaking pissed off if they told me tommorrow that Space is in, and come two weeks before release, it will be added later? God yes I would be. If they told me now, that PvP is just CTF/Hold the point/etc with Open world PvP, and then suddenly changed it to only 4v4 instances that you queue for on a certain planet, I would be just as unhappy.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump. Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process. Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them. Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious. Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat. And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make. It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out. LOL you are hilarious. Blizzard just announced that they restructured 2 features from Cata, pissing off people who only read thread titles.
I don't follow or play WOW so I really don't care if it's many or one feature that was removed. I think it's important to know the one thing I remember hearing about Cataclysm is they are removing previously promised content.
You either heard wrong or the thing you "remembered hearing" you didn't actually remember. Remove != change. I think all that happened (since you already placed your stance at not caring about WoW that much) is that you saw a thread title exclaiming "WOW CATA FEATURES REMOVED" or some form and now that's the truth. I don't go around saying lots of things just because I heard them, it makes me look like an idiot if I do. Which brings me to the present.
Really? Don't you remember about Blizzard saying there was going to be flying combat in WotLK? HAHAHAhahahahaha..... Yeah that information was released and never came out. Funny how Blizzard does release information prematurely and then take it back. Yeah...
Comments
On top of that, often the customer himself doesn't really know what he wants! Yes he will yell loud he likes the sauce only with this and that, but is quite surprised when that secret sauce which is entirely different actually is a blast!
Base judgement on experience, not videos, interviews or screenshots. That can be misleading in both ways.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Cause everyone is an Armchair developer, more than half im sure of the people who post on the forums have no idea what it takes to create a computer game like this. They have some preconcieved notion that it is easy to change things on thier whim but not knowing what the actual Engine or anything can do.
As for the fact they cant talk about things yes..its annoying for most, but guess what anything they do say could change on a daily basis, and say they did mention oh yes we have space and you can fly........but then 2 months later they say no you wont be able to we just dont have time to flesh it out. Which is worse? Wasting the time on what they couldnt do or waiting till they know for sure?
http://tor-aid.com/20100617229/SWTOR-Developer/sean-dahlberg-35-minute-video-interview-e3-2010.html
This interview tells alot like it is and what the developers actually react to on the forums and how they explain how development works.
I have just been convinced you have no clue what you're talking about
Im gona go ahead and strongly disagree with you.
Features are added/removed/tweaked all the time. Its like with Fable, when Peter Molyneux said that tree's woud age with you. He said it as an aside, a little feature they were playing around wtih.
The community ran with it "the world ages", "you shape the ever changing world". Then when the tree idea was scrapped cause it added nothing to the game people would scream about his lies.
Limiting the information that gets out to just the finalized information is the only way to communicate without having PR nightmares, thats just a fact of life these days.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Work in Progress things can change.
Look at FFXIV development, you get the same thing.. Same with GW2 on some stuff.. They just aren't ready to release the info.
Your quarterly expectations of BioWare make me laugh.
1) This is what what is in the game - the moment they say this, it is set in stone as far as the community is concerned, and they will get crucified if they have to remove it, regadless of how valid the reason is.
2) This is what we want to put in the game - See #1
3) This is what we are working on right now - See #1
4) This is what we had to change/add/remove - See #1
5) This is our current expected date to launch - See #1
That pretty much sums it up.
I think BioWare is doing a fantastic job of managing it's feature information, in fact, I wish they'd keep even more to themselves.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
So people were pissed off? Doesn't matter how it happend. What does matter is blizzard prematurly released info, something BioWare is avoiding, if blizzard doesn't know its player base is already slightly below average intelligence this further shows Blizzards incompetance. Each WoW patch note should read "THINGS KINDA CHANGED". But by all means, continue on with defending piss poor methods in releasing non 100% correct information so you they can disapoint players later.
Tom Tucker: What's the moral of the story Ollie?
Ollie Williams: Be sure.
Tom Tucker: Thanks Ollie.
One of the reasons I am defionitely going to buy Cata is I like the little cars the goblins are going to be driving around in - I also like the new goblin racial, that big jump.
Cata isn't going to come out for six or more months but blizz have already told us the new races, the new racials and even the new racial mounts. People are discussing this kind of information rating it, making plans ahead. They have become part of the process.
Whatever you think about their game, Blizz is superb in keeping consumers informed and that's one reason consumers are very loyal to them.
Meanwhile, aside from one second of a Sith on a speeder which may be from a cut-scene, we don't even know for sure if there will be mounts in SWTOR. Do you get it?
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they had to cut out 2 large features from Cata, pissing off alot of people that were waiting on Cat.
And that's why Bioware is so silent on their feature-list. They're smart enough not to make the same mistakes Blizzard and other devs repeatedly make.
It's a shame that gamers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
LOL you are hilarious.
Blizzard just announced that they restructured 2 features from Cata, pissing off people who only read thread titles.
It's a shame people can't read for themselves.
http://wowblips.dailyradar.com/story/cataclysm-press-event-path-of-titans-scrapped/
Path of Titans was completely scrapped.
You would know that if you read stuff, but you're probably too busy flying off the handle in these TOR topics.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Really? Don't you remember about Blizzard saying there was going to be flying combat in WotLK? HAHAHAhahahahaha..... Yeah that information was released and never came out. Funny how Blizzard does release information prematurely and then take it back. Yeah...