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The Truth about F2P
goldenkey
Member UncommonPosts: 98
I found this over at Massively and for me the author is right on the money about why Turbine is going F2P.
Comments
And if you're a fool and spend XXX.XX a month on a $15.00 a month game you deserve it.
I hope you don't think this is limited just to Turbine or even MMO's. Cable, Telephone, Wireless etc... companies have been doing this for years. X for base service, X for this extra, X for that extra. Heck talk about Shiney's why not. Ever wonder why grocery stores are laid out the way they are? Impluse buy items at the end of ailes or at the check out stand. Junk food and soda's usually at the start of the store with veggies and diary farther back.
It's about being a company and making money, right or wrong, like it or not.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
That's true, we used to playce impulse buy items and items that would catch the eye of children close to the register so that people had to make a quick decision based on whether they were curious about the item.
If the person had children the children might bug the parent and the parent might just buy the item to placate them.
In the end people need to take responsibility for their own spending and saving and not blame it on companies that offer them the ability to spend in their stores.
Or games in this manner.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Not a very popular concept around here. I've thrown it out a few times and it's not the kind of thing people want to hear.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I find it shocking how naive people are about this, even knowing how stupid people can be about things. Hybrid F2P might be a less obvious and less offensive nickel-and-dime scheme but it is a nickel-and-dime scheme nonetheless and it will change the way the game is design leading to gameplay that is intended to drive cash shop sales.
As for it is up to people to control their spending, the company is just trying to make money, etc, etc, etc. All true, and I do not begrudge a company trying to maximize revenue. However, that said, there is a difference between trying to do more or better to increase revenue and trying to find ways to get more for the same and F2P is more the latter which makes it cheesy, though not evil or anything of the sort. Designing games to take advantage of human nature (Zynga style) is a dangerous trend and if MMO players do not wake up MMOs will be consumed by this trend and the genre destroyed. If revenue is tied to microtransactions then game design becomes about one thing - creating the need/want to engage in more microtransactions - this is just reality.
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I'm married, I work full time, and I go to school full time. What I cannot do is play an MMO full time. Why should I pay the same $15.00/month for 5 hours that others pay for 40+ hours? I just doesn't make sense. F2P is the best option for me. I can play as much or as little as i want, without having to worry about getting my money's worth.
If I'm going to have some extra time and want to buy something in a cash shop to take advantage of it, great. After all, I'm smart enough to know that nothing is "free", and I know that these companies are there to make money.
I have no problem with F2P and cash shops. It's their game, their business model let them run their business in a way that keeps them in business. If this will keep a game, that gamers for the most part enjoy, afloat then so be it.
Now I'm not a fan of PvP, so this might surprise folks for me to say this, what I'm not in favor of is unfair advantages due to purchasing gear or stat boosts. When it comes to PVM/Questing, it's not a big deal to me as it seems most players like to have players with good gear and stats in their party to help accomplish tasks.
I could see purchasing potions, healer kits, cosmetic/aesthetic gear, basic crafting materials, advanced exp and advanced loot drop items. In fact it would be nice to see a subscription based game that only charged you 4.99 per month, included a handful of those freebies per month for your subscription fee thus freeing up 10.00 per month for you to either spend in their cash shop for more of the items you prefer, or subscribe to one or two similar F2P/cash shop hybrid MMO's.
That's just my thoughts.
I agree with you too. The excuse for flat rate cannot be the I don't know how to manage a budget. I remember a friend who was trying to sell me the idea of gas bill budget as the heaven, when I actually asked, are they giving us discount for that, after the negative answer I understood that most people does not understand monetary issues, no wonder when they make wrong decisions they come back crying as if they were deceived (real state crisis).
As the article said $15 a month is the cheaper entertainment possible, and still traditional gamers has been whining about this game doesn't give me this or that. F2t is just a move to cater the most profitable and the least annoying player, it is not really about freedom but more to put effort on the people are willing to support a specific game, instead on the mere $15-month overproud selfcentered player. Imho, LotRo didnt go f2p because it was just greed; the game was following the steps of DDO (how fast or slow is debatable) and Turbine didn't want to wait until the time when it was obvious to do the change. So, if somebody is to blame for LotRo going f2p are the gamers that didn't support it with subscriptions and basher which main way of enjoyment is to criticize games just the same feeling of bulling people.
The Issue the author points out is that at the end of the day you wind up spending $20 or $25 instead of just the $15. The marketing data supports this you spend $2 one day then $5 the next and so on next thing you know you are up to more than the $15 flat rate. I am a lifer so this doesn't affect me not yet anyway. If you have the discipline to watch what you spend then you should be ok but that is not what Turbine is counting on.
Moreover, even if the guy finds a way to play his 5 or 6 hours and pay less than the old model $15, say $5 or $10, the lack of realization that paying $5 for 5 or 6 hours play verse playing $15 for unlimited play is baffling. Sure, some casuals may find it annoying that they pay the same as some hardcore but to not acknowledge the value of unlimited access (whether you use a little or use a lot) is juvenile. It is like a movie theater charging $10 a month to see all the movies you want, someone looks at it and says they only go to one movie a week and want individual pricing so when the theater changes to $5 per movie they are all happy and think they are getting a good value.
But agian, if the point of this hybrid model was to appeal to casuals they could offer up a $1/hour subscription or some other tiered pricing that sells ALL of the game gated only by time limitation. The issue doesn't demand or justify selling of game and gameplay pieces when access time is the consumer issue most players have. That is not their goal though, their goal is to carve up gameplay in to tiny little bits you will want/need to buy - it just so happends (to their advantage) that said little pieces will cost far more than the previous whole.
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That article hits the nail right on the head.
Thats what you think. Have you played DDO with the mercenarys you purchase ? You bet your butt they will be doing the same thing with LOTRO, the system is already partially implemented with skirmishers.
In DDO you can fill your group with these NPCs if you buy the premium versions from the item shop and they last 1 hour. Once used they are gone unless you buy more.
They will add a feature that allows you to spend turbine bucks to purchase extra skirmishers to fill your own groups.
They have made a ton of money with this in DDO, expect it in LOTRO
If a company want to get more money, you cannot stop it. If a customer want to save money, you cannot stop it. That is why some kind of "F2P" will emergy sooner or later.
I like the movie idea, but I don't understand what I lose if I really can only go to see movie once a month, and I am sure that will be the case for my whole life. I can understand however, if you went to moive 5 times a month you will hate to lose the monthly path. But the movie company did not stop selling that monthly pass, so what are you complain?
As for the company, turbine want F2P make more money through more than one way for sure. But one, and probably the most important one, is to get the 5$ from people who can only go to movie once a month. Those people most likely will chose not go to movie at all, if only the monthly pass exist.
Many people worried about buying items, but as long as those the items are not necessary and will not break the game. Why should you worry about other people want to spend money to be happy? You know what your wife/mom/gf/sister may do when they spend a day in fashion shop.
Who does? That's the part that people who are in a tizzy over RMT conveniently overlook. In a Free to Play MMO, what percentage of people spend ANY money on the game?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I have yet to pay for any f2p game. I'm not against it, but i've been able to have fun without it. Since that's what I'm after, I'd say it's working out just great for me.
You are the in the majority, whether the people on these forums want to realize that or not.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Dkpolgrim If you can step away from the game and not spend those turbine points I mean it's only points right not real money after all like going to the casino it's only chips not real money right? But that's the trap see that is what the casino and trubine are counting on you thinking it's not real money when it is real moeny. Then it's $5 this week and $7 the next then $6 the week after that then the next thing you know you're spending $20 to 25 a month playing a game you were spending $15 on.
The MMO developers have enough marketing data now to support this the impulse buying is for real and using things like Trubine points and not real $ is away to get you the customer to not think about the real $'s you sre spending on the game.
I love all of this talk about non-existant marketing data that "proves" that we're all going to throw them hundreds of dollars a month. why is it that all the assumptions go this way?
What about the marketing data that says getting 5-10 bucks from 1 million people is better than getting 15 bucks from 300k people?
There are plenty of ways to look at this.
I'm gettig sick and tired of reading these articles that always conventienly gloss over certainfacts that in my opinion hinder there own points. Frist of all our fifteen dollars a month in no way shape or forms guarantees us a damn thing I can't name how many mmo's I've played that I honestly never saw ever single thing there is to see or fought eveything there is to fight. The reasons for these things are simply my own and I don't plame them for that but I can blame them for creating video games where every single person who they are fortunate enough to get money from isn't considered worth it if they refuse to jump through the "subbordinate" or time consuming hoops they desgin so as to keep you r fifteen a month for as long as possible.
Also why is it that no one seems to want to mention that a sub fee in no way guarantees you will never spend another dime on that particular game? I'm hard pressed to think of a single mmo success that didn't tack on some expansion along the way and let's not mention the SWG expansion (I think Rage of the wookies or something like that) which was made obsilite by the games entire reworking something like a month later.
And of course the main argument I like to make is that in the aspect of the western mmo's we are used to playing not a single one forces you to utilize the free to play model that exists, they all still offer some form of "VIP" subscription method which then totally negates that persons need to actually spend anymore money than they did in the first place. I'm sure as a vip the option to purchase more points at any time is available but what makes that person any different than the two boxers we know to have existed for years? I honestly could spend the money to but could never truly afford to buy multiple copies of the same game all with different sub fees but we to this point have not shunned them, why must we shun those who may not pay a standard fifteen bucks a month as we do and alternately may spend 50 to a one hundred dollars every few months on items alone.
"Oooh look at that guy with the shiny shoes I gotta have those!" Is this not something that we had to adjust to in someway as children? Either your parents could afford it and often bought it for you (which should give you no problem to do now especially if you are a vip) or you learned not to try and keep up with the jones' (which is not as hard as anyone making this argument tries to make it look).
What I see is a brilliant way for the mmo companies to maximize their profits and in the process hopefully allowing games to continue to be pushed forward, a few years back games began to fold because investors were frightened into believing the return would not be worth it if the changes coming can alliviate those fears and give us more and better mmo offerings int he future I'm all for it.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
well, thanks for reply. Even though I failed to got your logic here, I believe you want to tell me I will eventually spend more than 15$ a month for a F2P game.
Here is my answer:
If a game make me have to do that, it will mean the items (not contents mind you) sell in this game is necessary, then this is a game I will not going to play, and I believe it is ture for most people. that is why I almost never played other F2P game out there (some games maybe good, just I do not have time to try). But I believe (hope) Turbine know the difference, at least DDO did it almost right.
If the content itself end up cost me more money than a monthly fee, then it depends on my playing style. Buying contens is "buy the game". If 20$ contents spend myself 3 month to finish (I am not playing a lot), I consider I gain over the monthly fee model. If 50$ contents spend myself less than month to finish (ANDI am not playing a lot), then this company is crazy, I should quit. But if that happens because you are a hardcore player and played a lot (which I am not), yyou have the VIP option.
If item is unnecessary and price for content is reasonable, but someone still pay more than 15$ a month in a game, he will (or try very hard to) find a way to spend more than 15$ a month even if the game is monthly fee based. But that will not be me.
So, what is the point of screwing over the most loyal fans? If the majority of people who play your game don't spend any money - why punish those who support you? Smells like a bunch of leeches (minority pays for the majority).
So we all agree that F2P games generally suck more cash out of the consumer and yet you all still defend it and say theres nothing wrong there??
You guys are a joke. No wonder why MMO company's continue to rape us with fees...
"We have barred the gates, but can not hold them for long...
They have taken the Bridge and the Second Hall...
We can not get out. The end comes.
Drums, drums in the deep. They are coming..."
This is the other dirty little secret. DDO has had a long history of poor commitment of resources (i.e. network and server) but with all the bragging about 500% increase and whatnot from Turbine the network/servers have not gotten better at all. So the crowd yelling about being happy the game will have all this money coming in to be reinvested don't hold your breath. By example, just this month they had a week+ long issue, not sure it is even resolved yet, where tons of VIP (subscription accounts) where downgraded to F2P accounts evectively making it impossible for people to play much at all since their paid account is over the limits in so many respects as a F2P account. The issue went on for a couple weeks and has been an issue for months in a much smaller regard.
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No one agrees to anything.
In fact, RESEARCH shows that MOST F2P players do not pay anything. Here is the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php
And I quote "the rest, around 25 million gamers, play MMOs without spending any money". I fully intend to be one of those 25M when i play F2P games.
Nothing wrong when 25M players are playing for free.
The Author makes a few assumptions which are taken out of context. For example:
1. smart customers love flat rate services.
This is true if the only alternative is a volume/time based service. But it doesnt apply to games, just as it doesnt apply to renting an apartment. Do you really think renting will cost less in the long run than buying?
2. With subscription-based games dropping like flies ... learn why F2T isn't as great as you think.
Do i really have to comment this? People always pretend companies drop perfectly fine buisness models just for the sake of it. P2P is not working fine for anyone but Blizzard, and maybe games that are massively niche like EvE. Pretty much every other P2P is in what can only be called maintenance mode compared to what we got in terms of content 5-8 years ago. Look how much content EQ or EQ II got, or even Ultima online, we have seen a huge decline in content over years to a point where its considered a big deal when a MMO gets an expansion, at all.
3. 9.99 to $14.99 per month, and those rates got you everything in the game.
This is true for exactly one mmorpg, and that is eve. Every other major P2P releases expansions which cost anywhere between 2-5 month supscriptions. WoW for example cost me around 120€ just on game and expansions, thats a year worth of subscription time and halfway to lifetime cost.
4. at which point things will gradually swing back towards the sub model(aka if we boycott this everything will go back as it was).
No it wont. See 2. Companies dont like dropping like flies, its bad for buisness. It should be obvious by now that there simply isnt enough money in subscription models to properly develope and run a MMO. It works for CCP cause they are a indy developer, and it works for Blizzard because they got so many subscriptions that employment costs of a couple dozen devs are insignificiant. It doesnt work for anyone else, there is a reason we see 2 year dev cycles with MMOs, or why developement slowed to a crawl.
5. at least also toss in a premium sub fee that allows access to everything ... I don't care if it's $19.99 or $29.99, I'll pay it.
He gets that and 7$ worth of points each month, for 10-15$ less than he is willing to pay. Id say Turbine is doing fine even by his standards.
BLABLA LOTRO is going with a hybrid subscription/FTP model........................................CRY me a river of blood!
Idiots guide to the new LORO payment model.
1. Don't buy shop items. You save money.
2 Subscribe to the game.
3. Not sure what to do next then see #1
Is it really that hard. Its no different than going to an amusement park, paying the entry fee and watching people run around with giant stuffed animals while their kids eat cotton candy.
Turbine is giving you the option to pay for content you are going to use based off how long you plan to play rather than spending 45 dollars over 3 months if you only play 2 hours a week you get to save all that money you probably wouldnt even need to buy anything.
Once again cry me a river. I didn't see any of this B*tching going down when DDO went FTP.