I dunno, as a F2P proponent, I'm a little aghast at the article. I daresay its definitely knocked the F2P side of the arguments back a few steps. But then, maybe his intent was to sabotage? Just sad though, I expect this kind of journalism from an IGN site, honestly surprised there weren't more grammatical errors.
Richard if things go bad for you at MMORPG I am sure you could find a job in some 3rd world dictatorship as their minister of information.
.
ROFL!
"There are no Pay to Play games here! There is only Free to Play! Pay no attention to all of those monthly subscribers, they don't exist!"
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Originally posted by MehveAccountability is the first step towards improvement, after all.
Strangely enough accountability appears to be non existent in the gaming industry.
What irks me the most is this recent development of "educating the ignorant".
And the claim that moving to F2P is for the benefit of the player.
Yea, just like patches were right?!
Then again, it all might be a sign of recent times. After all these days normal people can't think for themself let alone make a valid opinion about industries they are not part of.
I did not read all comments, only the first few.. but..
If i can play game A for $15 dollar a month, or i can play game B, which is exactly like game A, but F2P, why should i prefer game A?
Also, most of you forget that P2P doesn't mean it's good. Everybody's bitching about every single game, like about SW:TOR or the new Warhammer MMO. Both will be P2P, but still you bitch.
Wheres the difference to LotrO then? You bitch about game A, which costs $15 a month, and you bitch about game B, which doesn't cost anything.
Another thing, i played DDO when it went F2P/Freemium. The free content is quite a lot, especially if you like to start over with new characters. Of course there are restrictions to what you can achieve for free, but to cite some post here, the $200 you need to spent to get access to a similar level like P2P players do translates to 10-20 months of subscription. If you play longer, which most do if they like a game, you pay more for the subscription then buying all the free content.
Also, they will keep the subscription model, so nothing will change for you, expect more players. Some of them might even like the game enough to subscribe, but would not have done so without the possibilty of trying it out.
--
Another quite amusing/disturbing (choose one) fact is that everytime the MMORPG.com staff does not just recite official press releases of the game companies, everyone rages. This section is called "Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone". Is the article from Richard Aihoshi? Yes. It is about F2P etc.? Yes.
Therefore, it's in the right section. And as this is not general news, but the personal section of an author, they are free to post anything. Not that they would be limited to post only specific news, it's their site, not yours.
Also, i remember many liked the posts about Dragon Age etc., or general E3/similar events coverage, which isn't even about MMOs, even when, as stated above, they do not recite official news.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
You can't. And this guy submits this type of "column" every other week or so. Apparently there really is nothing going on in the F2P space news worthy so he just submits a troll/rant at people voicing their opinions that differ from his. Only he's allowed to take shots and make innuendos about those people's perceived lack of intelligence. Stuff we'd get a warning or ban for.
This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem.
Well... remember... according to certain people in this thread, he's just trying to be informative about the F2P market and we're unfairly hating on him and bashing him for it.
Yep... his article this week, which could pass as a typical forum rant post from any of a number of joe-schmoe posters, was "informative" to some people here.
I think that says it all.
As for Aioshi's spin that Turbine refers to their model as "F2P" - not "F2P with subscription" or "hybrid"...
I'm not sure where he's getting his information from, because he's completely wrong. Turbine has repeatedly and consistently referred to it as a Hybrid payment model. Hell, didn't Turbine coin the term 'Hybrid' to describe their payment model in the first place?
I did a Google search for 'Turbine DDO hybrid', and got numerous results where Turbine quite openly *do* call it a hybrid - and even explain in at least one case why they prefer that over the pure F2P setup and feel it's the better setup, particularly for the Western market. Even when I did a search for 'Turbine DDO F2P', the results I looked at came back with Turbine *still* referring to it as a Hybrid model... not "F2P".
Every instance I've seen of the term F2P regarding DDO or LoTRO has been from the author's side, not Turbine's. Turbine has consistently regarded the F2P portion in regards to it being *part* of their Hybrid setup... not as the model itself.
Soo... why would Aioshi make such a glaring and easily avoided misstep as to state, "Turbine calls the business model F2P", and "But the company is obviously willing to have both LOTRO and DDO labelled as F2P. Not F2P with subscription, not hybrid... just F2P"? I mean, those are emphatic statements. Not "opinions". He's making those statements as fact. Why would he say such a thing when it's so easily proven wrong?
Well... I'll call a spade a spade here and just state what many of us here already know: Aioshi has an obvious agenda of pushing F2P on the Western Market. He is not - as many seem to insist - innocently "informing us about it". To that end, he's willing to spin, twist, quote-mine, cherry-pick, omit or - as demonstrated here - mis-state the facts in order to further it.
It's not at all surprising that he'd be willilng to ignore the subscription/VIP portion of the model, and insist on calling it "F2P". Acknowledging that a subscription model still exists implies that there are enough people who still prefer it... Which of course does nothing for his dreams of "F2P World Domination" (yes, I'm being tongue-in-cheek there... but only partially). So, of course, he'd rather ignore that portion of it as much as he can. The fact that Turbine have noted an increase in their subscriptions since the change must really drive him nuts; "Turbine's doing it all wrong!!Truth Obfuscation Systems, engage!Spin mode, activate!!"
Now, some might say "Well, when people call it F2P, Turbine doesn't object". It would be an obvious rebuttal... but also entirely disingenuous. Why would they object to using F2P as part of the model? It does, after all, describe one half of their *hybrid* setup. See, 'cause that's what a hybrid is... a combination of two or more different things. And of course, the "F2P" portion is the one generating the news... The subscription, or "VIP", portion is the same as it's always been... Pay a flat fee, get full access to the game. Not so news-worthy.
So... did Aioshi simply mis-speak? Has he simply and innocently managed to completely miss the myriad examples of where Turbine have specifically labeled and described their model as Hybrid? Or... is he simply being intellectually dishonest, mucking with the facts and hoping no one will notice?
Call me crazy... but I'm betting on the latter.
And before someone says I'm playing semantics or whatever... No... Pure "F2P" as it's known, and Turbine's Hybrid model are not the same thing. Pure F2P doesn't offer subscription options. The Hybrid model does. This is why there are those, by their own say so on these forums, who would never accept a F2P model, but are fine with the Hybrid model. Because the option to avoid microtransactions and pay a flat sub-fee is still there. That crucial difference in mind, Aioshi's omission of the facts in his remarks is abundantly and shamefully clear.
See... this is the fundamental flaw in Aioshi's mentality that, in his smug arrogance, he fails to realize... Not everyone reading his columns take what he says as fact, consider him "the informed expert", and leave it at that. Many of us do our own research, check things out for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions. Thus, many of us are able to see right through it when he starts spinning and can call him out on it. Which he responds to with nerd-rage rants such as this week's "article", wherein he routinely takes pot-shots and cheap jabs at those who *dare* disagree with him, or call him out on his BS.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
feh come from someone who use rumors as truths in your articles and not only once he says things everyone would like to know where he get then, nothing he says I even give any regards hell I normally don't even care from what this Mr. says, because every single day he looks more and more like a troll, for a jornalist he should at least state some facts no pull things of his **** saying its true and "believe me".
you guys also should learn some people don't like F2P no matter what you say, its not a future bussinel model, is just a damn model who is used for over 6 years only diference now is we see it more often because we have a lot more publisher getting things from the asian market, and more devs from there who like to pay to win so I can win in some place if not I would kill myself http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/25/apple_partner_foxconn_says_its_not_a_sweatshop_as_suicides_mount.html, its pretty much from the market this model is predominant.
also Mr. Aioshi I would like to ask you to stop trolling here I would have shame on myself if I did my job like that using rumors and slashing about the other people opnion, also I will repeat whi some people don't like the "F2P" tag and they will not change they mind just because you want, It Is what It Is.
PS. MikeB can you too just talk to this Mr. and tell him to move on, its not good to anyone (even less to a say jornalist) trolling in his articles.
I did not read all comments, only the first few.. but..
If i can play game A for $15 dollar a month, or i can play game B, which is exactly like game A, but F2P, why should i prefer game A?
I've yet to see a F2P MMO that was exactly like a P2P. From the gameplay, to the game design, there are obvious differences... assuming you look past the surface and pay attention to how the gameplay is set up. It's not so prominent in the first 20-30 levels or so (by design). However, going into the later levels, the differences become more and more apparent if you pay attention to the game design and how it coincides with what's on offer in the cash shop. There's almost always a correlation.
In a nutshell, without going too much into depth (because that could quickly become a very long post, even by my standards :-p):
P2P MMOs, at their core, are designed to provide enough content to keep players entertained for the long term, so they'll keep playing as long as possible. The barriers are set up to be overcome 100% in-game, by playing the game.
F2P MMOs are designed to make aspects of the gameplay as inconvenient as possible, so players are more likely to spend money in the cash shop to eliminate the inconvenience. Barriers are set up to be overcome out-of-game, by pulling out the credit card.
"But you can play the game without spending a dime! You only have to grind a bit more!" - or so many have said. Well, considering how much many people *hate* grind of any sort, one wouldn't consider that a very compelling argument. Yet, as is typical when it comes to F2P MMOs, players seem all too willing to lower their standards and put up with a lot more than hey ever would in a P2P. "Intolerable" becomes "just peachy" when the word "free" is involved.
In my own experience, as well as from those I've spoken to who are much farther along in the different F2P MMOs I've played, the grind in a F2P MMO can make even the grindiest P2P MMO look like cake when you don't use the cash shop.
I'm not even talking "pay to win" items; which is nothing but a red herring, in my opinion. It's a mere distraction from the real problem. The real problem is in the normal, everyday elements typical of MMOs.
For example, let's take leveling and its red-headed stepchild, "grind". Look around the forums and the consensus is clear: Many players *hate* grind, and are quite vocal about wanting less of it in MMOs.
The P2P approach to this is, ideally, to find less grindy ways of allowing players to progress without eliminating or undermining the need *to* progress.
Conversely, F2P developers approach it by deliberately designing the game to make leveling *more* grindy; not to mention a typically much steeper xp curve than most P2P MMOs would ever dare implement. Then, they stock their cash shops with things like xp potions, charms, etc. that players can buy to alleviate the grind that *they* designed into the game. And of course, as consumables, players will continually need renew their supply. And, they'll need to do so in greater quantity as the leveling curve gets steeper and steeper, the mobs get tougher, and the levels take longer. That's, at least in part, F2P MMOs in a nutshell: profit through inconvenience.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Now, back to the mantra of "but you don't have to pay a dime! You can play the game and level without spending a penny! You just have to grind more!"
Well, that sounds great in theory. Realistically? Not so much.
For example, show me even a handful of players in a typical F2P MMO who have ascended to level cap, acquired all the top gear and are doing all the top, most challenging content, keeping pace with those who use the cash shop, and do so consistently without paying a dime themselves. For all the claims that it's possible, you'd think it would be common. Still, I've yet to see even one such player emerge. I'm not holding my breath waiting for one either. Is it impossible? No. Highly improbable? Absolutely.
Why? Because the developers have nothing to gain by making the game tolerable enough to go through without paying a dime. It's in their best interest to make progression without spending anything as grueling, slow and miserable as possible. The design of a F2P MMO is to drive players *to* the cash shop... not to design it in such a way that it's feasibly or tolerably avoidable indefinitely.
Also, most of you forget that P2P doesn't mean it's good. Everybody's bitching about every single game, like about SW:TOR or the new Warhammer MMO. Both will be P2P, but still you bitch.
Wheres the difference to LotrO then? You bitch about game A, which costs $15 a month, and you bitch about game B, which doesn't cost anything.
I see what you're trying to do there... "P2P are no better than F2P because people complain about both, so what's the difference if you play one or the other?". Thing is, it's not quite so black-and-white as that.
There are different reasons people complain about P2P versus why they complain about F2P. The two aren't the same. And the beauty is, people voting with their wallets sends a much bigger message to P2P developers about their game than it would to F2P. Not least of which because players seem to immediately lower their expectations of a F2P MMO and will tolerate, rationalize and even defend a lot more than they would in a P2P... because "it's free". However, when faced with the choice of spending money on the cash shop? Many times those same people's reaction is "Nope... not worth it".
Another quite amusing/disturbing (choose one) fact is that everytime the MMORPG.com staff does not just recite official press releases of the game companies, everyone rages. This section is called "Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone". Is the article from Richard Aihoshi? Yes. It is about F2P etc.? Yes.
A complete strawman argument - and you're not the first to use it.
No one begrudges Aioshi talking about the F2P market. No one's saying "OMG I'm never reading his articles again because he's talking about F2P!"
What people complain about - rightfully so - is the smug, arrogant tone he takes toward those who disagree with him, or the dishonest manner in which he presents many of his arguments. I called him out has mis-stating facts just a few posts back about how he states Turbine doesn't refer to their payment model as "hybrid", when they clearly and demonstrably do... consistently. A 2 minute Google search would prove that out. Yet, Aioshi conveniently ignored that and twisted it into something more in-line with his F2P agenda. And yes, read between the lines, note how he twists, spins and omits certain details in his articles, and it's quite clear the man has an agenda. Whether it's for personal reasons, for some financial gain or something else entirely, I don't know and I don't care.
As has been said, some of the stuff he says in some of his articles would merit a mod edit and/or warning were it a typical forum post. I've been issued warnings for saying far less inflammatory things. Yet... because he's a so-called "columnist"... I guess he gets to say what he wants, however he wants, and no one on the staff even blinks. Why? That's anyone's guess, but I have my hunches.
Therefore, it's in the right section. And as this is not general news, but the personal section of an author, they are free to post anything. Not that they would be limited to post only specific news, it's their site, not yours.
Again... Strawman. No one's saying he can't talk about F2P in a F2P portion of the site.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You can't. And this guy submits this type of "column" every other week or so. Apparently there really is nothing going on in the F2P space news worthy so he just submits a troll/rant at people voicing their opinions that differ from his. Only he's allowed to take shots and make innuendos about those people's perceived lack of intelligence. Stuff we'd get a warning or ban for.
This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem.
Well... remember... according to certain people in this thread, he's just trying to be informative about the F2P market and we're unfairly hating on him and bashing him for it.
Yep... his article this week, which could pass as a typical forum rant post from any of a number of joe-schmoe posters, was "informative" to some people here.
I think that says it all.
As for Aioshi's spin that Turbine refers to their model as "F2P" - not "F2P with subscription" or "hybrid"...
I'm not sure where he's getting his information from, because he's completely wrong. Turbine has repeatedly and consistently referred to it as a Hybrid payment model. Hell, didn't Turbine coin the term 'Hybrid' to describe their payment model?
I did a Google search for 'Turbine DDO hybrid', and got numerous results where Turbine quite openly *do* call it a hybrid - and even explain in at least one case why they prefer that over the pure F2P setup and feel it's the better setup, particularly for the Western market. Even when I did a search for 'Turbine DDO F2P', the results I looked at came back with Turbine *still* referring to it as a Hybrid model... not "F2P".
Every instance I've seen of the term F2P regarding DDO or LoTRO has been from the author's side, not Turbine's. Turbine has consistently regarded the F2P portion in regards to it being *part* of their Hybrid setup... not as the model itself.
Soo... why would Aioshi make such a glaring and easily avoided misstep as to state, "Turbine calls the business model F2P", and "But the company is obviously willing to have both LOTRO and DDO labelled as F2P. Not F2P with subscription, not hybrid... just F2P"? I mean, those are emphatic statements. Not "opinions". He's making those statements as fact. Why would he say such a thing when it's so easily proven wrong?
Well... I'll call a spade a spade here and just state what many of us here already know: Aioshi has an obvious agenda of pushing F2P on the Western Market. He is not - as many seem to insist - innocently "informing us about it". To that end, he's willing to spin, twist, quote-mine, cherry-pick, omit or - as demonstrated here - mis-state the facts in order to further it.
It's not at all surprising that he'd be willilng to ignore the subscription/VIP portion of the model, and insist on calling it "F2P". Acknowledging that a subscription model still exists implies that there are enough people who still prefer it... Which of course does nothing for his dreams of "F2P World Domination" (yes, I'm being tongue-in-cheek there... but only partially). So, of course, he'd rather ignore that portion of it as much as he can. The fact that Turbine have noted an increase in their subscriptions since the change must really drive him nuts; "Turbine's doing it all wrong!!Spin mode, activate!!"
Now, some might say "Well, when people call it F2P, Turbine doesn't object". It would be an obvious rebuttal... but also entirely disingenuous. Why would they object to using F2P as part of the model? It does, after all, describe one half of their *hybrid* setup. See, 'cause that's what a hybrid is... a combination of two or more different things. And of course, the "F2P" portion is the one generating the news... The subscription, or "VIP", portion is the same as it's always been... Pay a flat fee, get full access to the game. Not so news-worthy.
So... did Aioshi simply mis-speak? Has he simply and innocently managed to completely miss the myriad examples of where Turbine have specifically labeled and described their model as Hybrid? Or... is he simply being intellectually dishonest, mucking with the facts and hoping no one will notice?
Call me crazy... but I'm betting on the latter.
And before someone says I'm playing semantics or whatever... No... Pure "F2P" as it's known, and Turbine's Hybrid model are not the same thing. Pure F2P doesn't offer subscription options. The Hybrid model does. This is why there are those, by their own say so on these forums, who would never accept a F2P model who are fine with the Hybrid model. Because the option to avoid microtransactions and pay a flat sub-fee is still there.
See... this is the fundamental flaw in Aioshi's mentality that, in his smug arrogance, he fails to realize... Not everyone reading his columns take what he says as fact, consider him "the informed expert", and leave it at that. Many of us do our own research, check things out for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions. Thus, many of us are able to see right through it when he starts spinning and can call him out on it. Which he responds to with nerd-rage rants such as this week's "article", wherein he routinely takes pot-shots and cheap jabs at those who *dare* disagree with him, or call him out on his BS.
Mike, Mike, Mike. How dare you write such a well reasoned post. We who choose not to play F2P (for whatever reason) aren't supposed to be capable of such things according to Aihoshi.
And as far as those folks asking why he doesn't come here and defend his posts, he's a drive-by "columnist". He doesn't actually care about this site. He just writes an "article" that he's contracted to do and sends it off. Which would probably explain why he writes the things he does. He doesn't have to "man-up" and face the people he verbally tears into. I don't know what you folks in the civilian world call it, but from my time in the army we call that a coward. *shrug*
is a is a
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Mike, Mike, Mike. How dare you write such a well reasoned post. We who choose not to play F2P (for whatever reason) aren't supposed to be capable of such things according to Aihoshi.
I know, I know. I need to stop doing that. It seems to offend some of the locals.
And as far as those folks asking why he doesn't come here and defend his posts, he's a drive-by "columnist". He doesn't actually care about this site. He just writes an "article" that he's contracted to do and sends it off. Which would probably explain why he writes the things he does. He doesn't have to "man-up" and face the people he verbally tears into. I don't know what you folks in the civilian world call it, but from my time in the army we call that a coward. *shrug*
Never thought of it that way. Well... either way, I still think MMORPG.com would be better served finding someone better suited to cover the F2P market without resorting to insults and cheap drive-by pot-shots when challenged or disagreed with. Someone, say... more professional.
I mean... let's look at the Turbine thing. Turbine is out there very deliberately trying to separate their Hybrid model from pure F2P, connecting the term with "also including a sub option". They are fully aware of the stigma F2P MMOs have - especially in the Western market - and are trying to distance themselves from that stigma, and are doing so, it seems, with notable success.
Then along comes Aioshi in usual fashion, bashing "dissenters", etc. He decides to use Turbine's hybrid model to bolster his own "arguments", and in doing so, deliberately misrepresents it as "F2P". He goes so far as to say that Turbine themself call it F2P, not Hybrid... in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
I mean... seriously? I'm not a Turbine employee, but I'd wager they wouldn't appreciate some hack columnist misrepresenting their business model to who knows how many possible readers.Hopefully most who read the article are better informed than he is.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by WSIMike Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Burntvet
How can someone report a columnist for trolling?
You can't. And this guy submits this type of "column" every other week or so. Apparently there really is nothing going on in the F2P space news worthy so he just submits a troll/rant at people voicing their opinions that differ from his. Only he's allowed to take shots and make innuendos about those people's perceived lack of intelligence. Stuff we'd get a warning or ban for. This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem. Well... remember... according to certain people in this thread, he's just trying to be informative about the F2P market and we're unfairly hating on him and bashing him for it. Yep... his article this week, which could pass as a typical forum rant post from any of a number of joe-schmoe posters, was "informative" to some people here. I think that says it all. As for Aioshi's spin that Turbine refers to their model as "F2P" - not "F2P with subscription" or "hybrid"... I'm not sure where he's getting his information from, because he's completely wrong. Turbine has repeatedly and consistently referred to it as a Hybrid payment model. Hell, didn't Turbine coin the term 'Hybrid' to describe their payment model in the first place? I did a Google search for 'Turbine DDO hybrid', and got numerous results where Turbine quite openly *do* call it a hybrid - and even explain in at least one case why they prefer that over the pure F2P setup and feel it's the better setup, particularly for the Western market. Even when I did a search for 'Turbine DDO F2P', the results I looked at came back with Turbine *still* referring to it as a Hybrid model... not "F2P". Every instance I've seen of the term F2P regarding DDO or LoTRO has been from the author's side, not Turbine's. Turbine has consistently regarded the F2P portion in regards to it being *part* of their Hybrid setup... not as the model itself. Soo... why would Aioshi make such a glaring and easily avoided misstep as to state, "Turbine calls the business model F2P", and "But the company is obviously willing to have both LOTRO and DDO labelled as F2P. Not F2P with subscription, not hybrid... just F2P"? I mean, those are emphatic statements. Not "opinions". He's making those statements as fact. Why would he say such a thing when it's so easily proven wrong? Well... I'll call a spade a spade here and just state what many of us here already know: Aioshi has an obvious agenda of pushing F2P on the Western Market. He is not - as many seem to insist - innocently "informing us about it". To that end, he's willing to spin, twist, quote-mine, cherry-pick, omit or - as demonstrated here - mis-state the facts in order to further it. It's not at all surprising that he'd be willilng to ignore the subscription/VIP portion of the model, and insist on calling it "F2P". Acknowledging that a subscription model still exists implies that there are enough people who still prefer it... Which of course does nothing for his dreams of "F2P World Domination" (yes, I'm being tongue-in-cheek there... but only partially). So, of course, he'd rather ignore that portion of it as much as he can. The fact that Turbine have noted an increase in their subscriptions since the change must really drive him nuts; "Turbine's doing it all wrong!! Truth Obfuscation Systems, engage! Spin mode, activate!!" Now, some might say "Well, when people call it F2P, Turbine doesn't object". It would be an obvious rebuttal... but also entirely disingenuous. Why would they object to using F2P as part of the model? It does, after all, describe one half of their *hybrid* setup. See, 'cause that's what a hybrid is... a combination of two or more different things. And of course, the "F2P" portion is the one generating the news... The subscription, or "VIP", portion is the same as it's always been... Pay a flat fee, get full access to the game. Not so news-worthy. So... did Aioshi simply mis-speak? Has he simply and innocently managed to completely miss the myriad examples of where Turbine have specifically labeled and described their model as Hybrid? Or... is he simply being intellectually dishonest, mucking with the facts and hoping no one will notice? Call me crazy... but I'm betting on the latter. And before someone says I'm playing semantics or whatever... No... Pure "F2P" as it's known, and Turbine's Hybrid model are not the same thing. Pure F2P doesn't offer subscription options. The Hybrid model does. This is why there are those, by their own say so on these forums, who would never accept a F2P model who are fine with the Hybrid model. Because the option to avoid microtransactions and pay a flat sub-fee is still there. That crucial difference in mind, Aioshi's omission of the facts in his remarks is abundantly and shamefully clear. See... this is the fundamental flaw in Aioshi's mentality that, in his smug arrogance, he fails to realize... Not everyone reading his columns take what he says as fact, consider him "the informed expert", and leave it at that. Many of us do our own research, check things out for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions. Thus, many of us are able to see right through it when he starts spinning and can call him out on it. Which he responds to with nerd-rage rants such as this week's "article", wherein he routinely takes pot-shots and cheap jabs at those who *dare* disagree with him, or call him out on his BS.
I agree wholeheartedly, the insistence that there is no 'hybrid' model and it should be labeled as F2P got my goat too. There is a distinct difference between games that offer both F2P content along with a subscription service (DDO and soon to be LotRO) and the vast majority of true F2P games that were built from the ground up as such with all the horrible inconveniences that can only be bought off with hard earned cash. Out of the two I know which I prefer, and it isn't the pure F2P model. If this 'bright new F2P future' that the likes of Mr Aihoshi and Justin Webb talk about is pure F2P, count me out, however if it means more sub games offering more choice with a la carte F2P access then count me in, I'm all for more choice as long as monetary disadvantage is countered by an equal playing field sub model.
I Can't help feeling, because of the tone of this piece, that Mr Aihoshi is reading these posts and glibly denouncing them as 'anti F2P rants'. One word springs to mind (as it did with justin webbs 'F2P: Relax... Breathe' article) - condescending.
I agree wholeheartedly, the insistence that there is no 'hybrid' model and it should be labeled as F2P got my goat too. There is a distinct difference between games that offer both F2P content along with a subscription service (DDO and soon to be LotRO) and the vast majority of true F2P games that were built from the ground up as such with all the horrible inconveniences that can only be bought off with hard earned cash. Out of the two I know which I prefer, and it isn't the pure F2P model. If this 'bright new F2P future' that the likes of Mr Aihoshi and Justin Webb talk about is pure F2P, count me out, however if it means more sub games offering more choice with a la carte F2P access then count me in, I'm all for more choice as long as monetary disadvantage is countered by an equal playing field sub model.
Agree 100%.
I'm still "eh" about the F2P model being there at all. But I'd be a hell of a lot more willing to play MMO with a hybrid model where at least the subscription model is still available, and not affected at all by a cash shop.
The reason I'm "eh" about it is because as I understand it, even with a sub, it's still sorta "in your face". I'd rather not even *see* the cash shop noted or mentioned at all - including any ads, etc - if I'm paying a sub. I'd like the sub fee to include a cash-shop free experience. I'd even forego the free Turbine points. Just let me pay my sub, immerse myself and enjoy myself within the game.
I think Anarchy Online has a good approach... If you're playing on a free account, there are bulletin boards with ads, etc. This includes ads for movies and products, etc. However, if you're a paying subscriber, you have the option to turn the ads off, so it's 100% game-related content. That would be a great option for a VIP account in LoTRO or DDO. As far as I know, they don't offer that.
F2P MMOs without a sub option? I'll kick around in them to see what they're like - and still do from time to time. But seriously invest in them as full-time games? No way. I've tested the waters, several times, and the water is not "fine" for me.
I Can't help feeling, because of the tone of this piece, that Mr Aihoshi is reading these posts and glibly denouncing them as 'anti F2P rants'. One word springs to mind (as it did with justin webbs 'F2P: Relax... Breathe' article) - condescending.
That's precisely what he does. Haven't read as many of Justin Webb's articles, so I can't speak to him really. Don't recall anything jumping out as particularly offensive in those I've read. -shrug-
Regarding Aioshi, notice how he only cites the weakest and most easily refuted arguments in his rebuttals, but never addresses or attempts to refute the more informed ones? Nope... He just goes after the easy targets, lumps everyone else in the same category and declare us all "in denial", or whatever... then retreats into the woodwork 'til his next "article".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
IT is what it is. F2P is a misnomer. It is a hybred, this still have paid subs in fact you either do that up pony up the bucks to by tp.
Now that I said that, I am sick and tired fo folks trying to shove F2P down my throat and being told I should like it.
I might be in the minority , who knows but im just not buying into this hype that I should brown noseing turbine and go man I Iove this when I dont.
We could all see this comming a mile off. When the do went this way and suposedly had 1 million subs playing. I guess lotro will be going there, without me.
Im going to call it like it is Tubine has it full defence force out.
Originally posted by WSIMike Haven't read as many of Justin Webb's articles, so I can't speak to him really. Don't recall anything jumping out as particularly offensive in those I've read. -shrug-
Justin Webb is usually pretty cool it was just the one article and nowhere near as bad as this one, it also happened to be about F2P.
As it currently stands there are 4 very distinct payment models:
Pay To Play
Free To Play
Hybrid
Buy To Play
I think we have the breadth of intellect to distinguish between them and not have to lump 2 or 3 in to one
Haven't read as many of Justin Webb's articles, so I can't speak to him really. Don't recall anything jumping out as particularly offensive in those I've read. -shrug-
Justin Webb is usually pretty cool it was just the one article and nowhere near as bad as this one, it also happened to be about F2P.
As it currently stands there are 4 very distinct payment models:
Pay To Play
Free To Play
Hybrid
Buy To Play
I think we have the breadth of intellect to distinguish between them and not have to lump 2 or 3 in to one
Ohhhh was that the one called "Relax... Breathe..." or something like that?
If so, I remembr reading it and replying that, though credit is due for being open about it, that his being employed by a F2P developer immediately colored his entire article.
Yeah... I remember that and it did raise an eyebrow... But I don't remember it being particularly hostile or aggressive or condescending toward any who would disagree.
In all, I think most of the authors here are cool. They say their piece - agree with them or not - and will take the time to discuss, debate and qualify their statements in the related discussion thread. That's awesome. That's how it should be. Sometimes they get heated, sure... but that's human nature. They own up to it and move on. For the most part, they seem quite adept at dealing with the signal-to-noise ratio their articles generate without getting all bitchy about it.
Aioshi, on the other hand, has no business being a columnist here in my opinion. I mean, the F2P market is still in an uphill battle in convincing the Western market as it is... I don't think he's helping.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by WSIMike Ohhhh was that the one called "Relax... Breathe..." or something like that? If so, I remembr reading it and replying that, though credit is due for being open about it, that his being employed by a F2P developer immediately colored his entire article. Yeah... I remember that and it did raise an eyebrow... But I don't remember it being particularly hostile or aggressive or condescending toward any who would disagree.
Yes that was the article, yes it got a raised eyebrow from me too. Your right, it was wrong of me to put them side by side like that.
There should be a /petiton system for "writers" here, so that with enough votes from members, they get the boot out the door.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Free to play columnist Richard Aihoshi wonders at some people's unwillingness to accept LOTRO's announced change of business models.
After the announcement 10 days ago that The Lord of the Rings Online will become free to play this fall, it took almost no time at all for the silly reactions to begin. Considering the hate-on some people have for anything and everything F2P, it was no surprise they didn't like the news. But it was almost comical to see some of the spin doctoring they engaged in to try to soften or negate the impact on their tender psyches instead of simply admitting what's happening with the game and in the MMOG market.
For example, one point of view was put forward stating this isn't an important development because LOTRO doesn't qualify as a major subscription title since it only has a single-digit share of that market. The problem is that if we apply this particular criterion, practically every single release aside from World of Warcraft could adopt F2P, and not one of the conversions would be significant.
The "columnist" is correct in that, yes, it is what it is and yes, the industry is moving towards a hybrid model and has been for some time with Sony, Blizzard, Turbine and several others choosing similar paths.
What I don't understand - and the reason I can rarely be bothered to log in and post here anymore - is why it is acceptable for a columnist to treat readers here in this manner continually.
The forums here are already nearly as bad as the forums on some game communities (can anyone say SWG, specifically Scylla, in the old days?). Do we really have to tolerate this kind of abuse from a member of the staff as well?
What follows is language I have never dragged myself into the gutter to use here, but Mr. Aioshi (Aihoshi - however they want to spell it this week) has earned it and I am tired of trying to be polite. I'll take the disciplinary action on my account.
Aihoshi (didn't it used to be Aioshi?), you sir, are a douchebag. Instead of writing a column for mmorpg.com, you should be getting warnings and perhaps even a ban from the staff...but they apparently don't moderate the forums, so why would they moderate an arrogant jackass who gets away with the crap you do under the guise of "journalism?"
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
God this thread is hilarious.... such rampant QQing over nothing but some made up insults that he supposedly directed at you.
BTW folks, the forums are modded plenty, and your emissing one key point in his su[pposed "trolling" and "attacks" against you. None of them were directed at any particular individual, they were directed at the masses of misinformation and stupidity coming forth from various threads an dvarious people.
Now if he sat here and said "(insert name) is a complete f**ktard and has no idea what theyre talking about, etc ,etc" that could be taken as an attack or insult. You crybabies need to learn the differenc ebetween an attack on an individual and an attack a certain ideal. God i could just imagine all the crying and moaning that would ensue if i felt like taking the time to pick out each of your individual religous and other various beliefs and shoot them full of holes like he did with your anti-F2P drama.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, what an unfortunate world we live in that the loudest majority is usually the one with the least to say. Turbine and it's two flagship products, DDO and LoTRO were both well polished, well put together products. They are still improving to this day with active content producers. What will change when this new business model goes in to effect? The way you pay for the product will become more flexible. Nothing else. I played DDO when it released as a P2P game. I play it still. I pay the exact same amount for my subscription now as I did when it released, the only difference being I get more content now that it has gone F2P. There is literally no way you will pay more money to access the same content you do now in LoTRO if you stay subscribed, and now you will also have the option to spend, or not spend, a completely self-assigned amount for things you couldn't purchase before. Or, if times are tight, you can play the main storyline portion of the game completely free.
You're arguments about this "bleeding" effect Turbine is purportedly aiming at it's customers is absolute and unequivocable fantasy. Turbine wants to offer potential customers a product, and it wants them to be able to sample and buy that product if the customer is happy with it. By offering more ways to pay for said product, they hope to enable a larger amount of customers to do so.
Worried about the community with the potential influx of these new F2P customers? Guess what, they are people just like you. Some are smart, some may be idiots, others are looking for a quick free glance in to the game, and some will be long-time residents who decide to stay. If the addition of more customers to "your" game seems to be a scary proposition, take a long look in the mirror, because the traits of the "bad" element you are so worried about are probably things you yourself are capable and culpable of now. These new players will assimilate only as well as those veteran players allow them to. You can either help them become a part of the community, or treat them as hostile and watch them become what you fear.
One final note, 99 percent of the posters in this thread need to learn how to spell. You are a glaring example of just how completely ignorant and uneducated the vast majority of online gamers have become.
Comments
I dunno, as a F2P proponent, I'm a little aghast at the article. I daresay its definitely knocked the F2P side of the arguments back a few steps. But then, maybe his intent was to sabotage? Just sad though, I expect this kind of journalism from an IGN site, honestly surprised there weren't more grammatical errors.
He comes of as someone who is very angry and who has a vested intrest in the F2P market. I wonder who pays him....
"One word, Thundercougarfalconbird."
Richard if things go bad for you at MMORPG I am sure you could find a job in some 3rd world dictatorship as their minister of information.
.
ROFL!
"There are no Pay to Play games here! There is only Free to Play! Pay no attention to all of those monthly subscribers, they don't exist!"
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Strangely enough accountability appears to be non existent in the gaming industry.
What irks me the most is this recent development of "educating the ignorant".
And the claim that moving to F2P is for the benefit of the player.
Yea, just like patches were right?!
Then again, it all might be a sign of recent times. After all these days normal people can't think for themself let alone make a valid opinion about industries they are not part of.
Yea right ...
I did not read all comments, only the first few.. but..
If i can play game A for $15 dollar a month, or i can play game B, which is exactly like game A, but F2P, why should i prefer game A?
Also, most of you forget that P2P doesn't mean it's good. Everybody's bitching about every single game, like about SW:TOR or the new Warhammer MMO. Both will be P2P, but still you bitch.
Wheres the difference to LotrO then? You bitch about game A, which costs $15 a month, and you bitch about game B, which doesn't cost anything.
Another thing, i played DDO when it went F2P/Freemium. The free content is quite a lot, especially if you like to start over with new characters. Of course there are restrictions to what you can achieve for free, but to cite some post here, the $200 you need to spent to get access to a similar level like P2P players do translates to 10-20 months of subscription. If you play longer, which most do if they like a game, you pay more for the subscription then buying all the free content.
Also, they will keep the subscription model, so nothing will change for you, expect more players. Some of them might even like the game enough to subscribe, but would not have done so without the possibilty of trying it out.
--
Another quite amusing/disturbing (choose one) fact is that everytime the MMORPG.com staff does not just recite official press releases of the game companies, everyone rages. This section is called "Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone". Is the article from Richard Aihoshi? Yes. It is about F2P etc.? Yes.
Therefore, it's in the right section. And as this is not general news, but the personal section of an author, they are free to post anything. Not that they would be limited to post only specific news, it's their site, not yours.
Also, i remember many liked the posts about Dragon Age etc., or general E3/similar events coverage, which isn't even about MMOs, even when, as stated above, they do not recite official news.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Well... remember... according to certain people in this thread, he's just trying to be informative about the F2P market and we're unfairly hating on him and bashing him for it.
Yep... his article this week, which could pass as a typical forum rant post from any of a number of joe-schmoe posters, was "informative" to some people here.
I think that says it all.
As for Aioshi's spin that Turbine refers to their model as "F2P" - not "F2P with subscription" or "hybrid"...
I'm not sure where he's getting his information from, because he's completely wrong. Turbine has repeatedly and consistently referred to it as a Hybrid payment model. Hell, didn't Turbine coin the term 'Hybrid' to describe their payment model in the first place?
I did a Google search for 'Turbine DDO hybrid', and got numerous results where Turbine quite openly *do* call it a hybrid - and even explain in at least one case why they prefer that over the pure F2P setup and feel it's the better setup, particularly for the Western market. Even when I did a search for 'Turbine DDO F2P', the results I looked at came back with Turbine *still* referring to it as a Hybrid model... not "F2P".
Every instance I've seen of the term F2P regarding DDO or LoTRO has been from the author's side, not Turbine's. Turbine has consistently regarded the F2P portion in regards to it being *part* of their Hybrid setup... not as the model itself.
Soo... why would Aioshi make such a glaring and easily avoided misstep as to state, "Turbine calls the business model F2P", and "But the company is obviously willing to have both LOTRO and DDO labelled as F2P. Not F2P with subscription, not hybrid... just F2P"? I mean, those are emphatic statements. Not "opinions". He's making those statements as fact. Why would he say such a thing when it's so easily proven wrong?
Well... I'll call a spade a spade here and just state what many of us here already know: Aioshi has an obvious agenda of pushing F2P on the Western Market. He is not - as many seem to insist - innocently "informing us about it". To that end, he's willing to spin, twist, quote-mine, cherry-pick, omit or - as demonstrated here - mis-state the facts in order to further it.
It's not at all surprising that he'd be willilng to ignore the subscription/VIP portion of the model, and insist on calling it "F2P". Acknowledging that a subscription model still exists implies that there are enough people who still prefer it... Which of course does nothing for his dreams of "F2P World Domination" (yes, I'm being tongue-in-cheek there... but only partially). So, of course, he'd rather ignore that portion of it as much as he can. The fact that Turbine have noted an increase in their subscriptions since the change must really drive him nuts; "Turbine's doing it all wrong!! Truth Obfuscation Systems, engage! Spin mode, activate!!"
Now, some might say "Well, when people call it F2P, Turbine doesn't object". It would be an obvious rebuttal... but also entirely disingenuous. Why would they object to using F2P as part of the model? It does, after all, describe one half of their *hybrid* setup. See, 'cause that's what a hybrid is... a combination of two or more different things. And of course, the "F2P" portion is the one generating the news... The subscription, or "VIP", portion is the same as it's always been... Pay a flat fee, get full access to the game. Not so news-worthy.
So... did Aioshi simply mis-speak? Has he simply and innocently managed to completely miss the myriad examples of where Turbine have specifically labeled and described their model as Hybrid? Or... is he simply being intellectually dishonest, mucking with the facts and hoping no one will notice?
Call me crazy... but I'm betting on the latter.
And before someone says I'm playing semantics or whatever... No... Pure "F2P" as it's known, and Turbine's Hybrid model are not the same thing. Pure F2P doesn't offer subscription options. The Hybrid model does. This is why there are those, by their own say so on these forums, who would never accept a F2P model, but are fine with the Hybrid model. Because the option to avoid microtransactions and pay a flat sub-fee is still there. That crucial difference in mind, Aioshi's omission of the facts in his remarks is abundantly and shamefully clear.
See... this is the fundamental flaw in Aioshi's mentality that, in his smug arrogance, he fails to realize... Not everyone reading his columns take what he says as fact, consider him "the informed expert", and leave it at that. Many of us do our own research, check things out for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions. Thus, many of us are able to see right through it when he starts spinning and can call him out on it. Which he responds to with nerd-rage rants such as this week's "article", wherein he routinely takes pot-shots and cheap jabs at those who *dare* disagree with him, or call him out on his BS.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Will we get another f2p column next week?
First you take the good part of the f2p model, then its about the annoying community here at mmorpg and now I wonder what will be next.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Once again, Aihoshi proves to be as narrow minded and spiteful as he claims people who dislike the F2P model are.
Why is he allowed to continually post columns that would be considered trolling if they were posted by any regular member?
feh come from someone who use rumors as truths in your articles and not only once he says things everyone would like to know where he get then, nothing he says I even give any regards hell I normally don't even care from what this Mr. says, because every single day he looks more and more like a troll, for a jornalist he should at least state some facts no pull things of his **** saying its true and "believe me".
you guys also should learn some people don't like F2P no matter what you say, its not a future bussinel model, is just a damn model who is used for over 6 years only diference now is we see it more often because we have a lot more publisher getting things from the asian market, and more devs from there who like to pay to win so I can win in some place if not I would kill myself http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/25/apple_partner_foxconn_says_its_not_a_sweatshop_as_suicides_mount.html, its pretty much from the market this model is predominant.
also Mr. Aioshi I would like to ask you to stop trolling here I would have shame on myself if I did my job like that using rumors and slashing about the other people opnion, also I will repeat whi some people don't like the "F2P" tag and they will not change they mind just because you want, It Is what It Is.
PS. MikeB can you too just talk to this Mr. and tell him to move on, its not good to anyone (even less to a say jornalist) trolling in his articles.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mike, Mike, Mike. How dare you write such a well reasoned post. We who choose not to play F2P (for whatever reason) aren't supposed to be capable of such things according to Aihoshi.
And as far as those folks asking why he doesn't come here and defend his posts, he's a drive-by "columnist". He doesn't actually care about this site. He just writes an "article" that he's contracted to do and sends it off. Which would probably explain why he writes the things he does. He doesn't have to "man-up" and face the people he verbally tears into. I don't know what you folks in the civilian world call it, but from my time in the army we call that a coward. *shrug*
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem.
Well... remember... according to certain people in this thread, he's just trying to be informative about the F2P market and we're unfairly hating on him and bashing him for it.
Yep... his article this week, which could pass as a typical forum rant post from any of a number of joe-schmoe posters, was "informative" to some people here.
I think that says it all.
As for Aioshi's spin that Turbine refers to their model as "F2P" - not "F2P with subscription" or "hybrid"...
I'm not sure where he's getting his information from, because he's completely wrong. Turbine has repeatedly and consistently referred to it as a Hybrid payment model. Hell, didn't Turbine coin the term 'Hybrid' to describe their payment model in the first place?
I did a Google search for 'Turbine DDO hybrid', and got numerous results where Turbine quite openly *do* call it a hybrid - and even explain in at least one case why they prefer that over the pure F2P setup and feel it's the better setup, particularly for the Western market. Even when I did a search for 'Turbine DDO F2P', the results I looked at came back with Turbine *still* referring to it as a Hybrid model... not "F2P".
Every instance I've seen of the term F2P regarding DDO or LoTRO has been from the author's side, not Turbine's. Turbine has consistently regarded the F2P portion in regards to it being *part* of their Hybrid setup... not as the model itself.
Soo... why would Aioshi make such a glaring and easily avoided misstep as to state, "Turbine calls the business model F2P", and "But the company is obviously willing to have both LOTRO and DDO labelled as F2P. Not F2P with subscription, not hybrid... just F2P"? I mean, those are emphatic statements. Not "opinions". He's making those statements as fact. Why would he say such a thing when it's so easily proven wrong?
Well... I'll call a spade a spade here and just state what many of us here already know: Aioshi has an obvious agenda of pushing F2P on the Western Market. He is not - as many seem to insist - innocently "informing us about it". To that end, he's willing to spin, twist, quote-mine, cherry-pick, omit or - as demonstrated here - mis-state the facts in order to further it.
It's not at all surprising that he'd be willilng to ignore the subscription/VIP portion of the model, and insist on calling it "F2P". Acknowledging that a subscription model still exists implies that there are enough people who still prefer it... Which of course does nothing for his dreams of "F2P World Domination" (yes, I'm being tongue-in-cheek there... but only partially). So, of course, he'd rather ignore that portion of it as much as he can. The fact that Turbine have noted an increase in their subscriptions since the change must really drive him nuts; "Turbine's doing it all wrong!! Truth Obfuscation Systems, engage! Spin mode, activate!!"
Now, some might say "Well, when people call it F2P, Turbine doesn't object". It would be an obvious rebuttal... but also entirely disingenuous. Why would they object to using F2P as part of the model? It does, after all, describe one half of their *hybrid* setup. See, 'cause that's what a hybrid is... a combination of two or more different things. And of course, the "F2P" portion is the one generating the news... The subscription, or "VIP", portion is the same as it's always been... Pay a flat fee, get full access to the game. Not so news-worthy.
So... did Aioshi simply mis-speak? Has he simply and innocently managed to completely miss the myriad examples of where Turbine have specifically labeled and described their model as Hybrid? Or... is he simply being intellectually dishonest, mucking with the facts and hoping no one will notice?
Call me crazy... but I'm betting on the latter.
And before someone says I'm playing semantics or whatever... No... Pure "F2P" as it's known, and Turbine's Hybrid model are not the same thing. Pure F2P doesn't offer subscription options. The Hybrid model does. This is why there are those, by their own say so on these forums, who would never accept a F2P model who are fine with the Hybrid model. Because the option to avoid microtransactions and pay a flat sub-fee is still there. That crucial difference in mind, Aioshi's omission of the facts in his remarks is abundantly and shamefully clear.
See... this is the fundamental flaw in Aioshi's mentality that, in his smug arrogance, he fails to realize... Not everyone reading his columns take what he says as fact, consider him "the informed expert", and leave it at that. Many of us do our own research, check things out for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions. Thus, many of us are able to see right through it when he starts spinning and can call him out on it. Which he responds to with nerd-rage rants such as this week's "article", wherein he routinely takes pot-shots and cheap jabs at those who *dare* disagree with him, or call him out on his BS.
I agree wholeheartedly, the insistence that there is no 'hybrid' model and it should be labeled as F2P got my goat too. There is a distinct difference between games that offer both F2P content along with a subscription service (DDO and soon to be LotRO) and the vast majority of true F2P games that were built from the ground up as such with all the horrible inconveniences that can only be bought off with hard earned cash. Out of the two I know which I prefer, and it isn't the pure F2P model. If this 'bright new F2P future' that the likes of Mr Aihoshi and Justin Webb talk about is pure F2P, count me out, however if it means more sub games offering more choice with a la carte F2P access then count me in, I'm all for more choice as long as monetary disadvantage is countered by an equal playing field sub model.
I Can't help feeling, because of the tone of this piece, that Mr Aihoshi is reading these posts and glibly denouncing them as 'anti F2P rants'. One word springs to mind (as it did with justin webbs 'F2P: Relax... Breathe' article) - condescending.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
IT is what it is. F2P is a misnomer. It is a hybred, this still have paid subs in fact you either do that up pony up the bucks to by tp.
Now that I said that, I am sick and tired fo folks trying to shove F2P down my throat and being told I should like it.
I might be in the minority , who knows but im just not buying into this hype that I should brown noseing turbine and go man I Iove this when I dont.
We could all see this comming a mile off. When the do went this way and suposedly had 1 million subs playing. I guess lotro will be going there, without me.
Im going to call it like it is Tubine has it full defence force out.
Justin Webb is usually pretty cool it was just the one article and nowhere near as bad as this one, it also happened to be about F2P.
As it currently stands there are 4 very distinct payment models:
I think we have the breadth of intellect to distinguish between them and not have to lump 2 or 3 in to one
Ohhhh was that the one called "Relax... Breathe..." or something like that?
If so, I remembr reading it and replying that, though credit is due for being open about it, that his being employed by a F2P developer immediately colored his entire article.
Yeah... I remember that and it did raise an eyebrow... But I don't remember it being particularly hostile or aggressive or condescending toward any who would disagree.
In all, I think most of the authors here are cool. They say their piece - agree with them or not - and will take the time to discuss, debate and qualify their statements in the related discussion thread. That's awesome. That's how it should be. Sometimes they get heated, sure... but that's human nature. They own up to it and move on. For the most part, they seem quite adept at dealing with the signal-to-noise ratio their articles generate without getting all bitchy about it.
Aioshi, on the other hand, has no business being a columnist here in my opinion. I mean, the F2P market is still in an uphill battle in convincing the Western market as it is... I don't think he's helping.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Yes that was the article, yes it got a raised eyebrow from me too. Your right, it was wrong of me to put them side by side like that.
There should be a /petiton system for "writers" here, so that with enough votes from members, they get the boot out the door.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
The "columnist" is correct in that, yes, it is what it is and yes, the industry is moving towards a hybrid model and has been for some time with Sony, Blizzard, Turbine and several others choosing similar paths.
What I don't understand - and the reason I can rarely be bothered to log in and post here anymore - is why it is acceptable for a columnist to treat readers here in this manner continually.
The forums here are already nearly as bad as the forums on some game communities (can anyone say SWG, specifically Scylla, in the old days?). Do we really have to tolerate this kind of abuse from a member of the staff as well?
What follows is language I have never dragged myself into the gutter to use here, but Mr. Aioshi (Aihoshi - however they want to spell it this week) has earned it and I am tired of trying to be polite. I'll take the disciplinary action on my account.
Aihoshi (didn't it used to be Aioshi?), you sir, are a douchebag. Instead of writing a column for mmorpg.com, you should be getting warnings and perhaps even a ban from the staff...but they apparently don't moderate the forums, so why would they moderate an arrogant jackass who gets away with the crap you do under the guise of "journalism?"
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
God this thread is hilarious.... such rampant QQing over nothing but some made up insults that he supposedly directed at you.
BTW folks, the forums are modded plenty, and your emissing one key point in his su[pposed "trolling" and "attacks" against you. None of them were directed at any particular individual, they were directed at the masses of misinformation and stupidity coming forth from various threads an dvarious people.
Now if he sat here and said "(insert name) is a complete f**ktard and has no idea what theyre talking about, etc ,etc" that could be taken as an attack or insult. You crybabies need to learn the differenc ebetween an attack on an individual and an attack a certain ideal. God i could just imagine all the crying and moaning that would ensue if i felt like taking the time to pick out each of your individual religous and other various beliefs and shoot them full of holes like he did with your anti-F2P drama.
[sarcasm] Thank you for this informative and though provoking article. [/sarcasm]
Epic... will you bear my children?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, what an unfortunate world we live in that the loudest majority is usually the one with the least to say. Turbine and it's two flagship products, DDO and LoTRO were both well polished, well put together products. They are still improving to this day with active content producers. What will change when this new business model goes in to effect? The way you pay for the product will become more flexible. Nothing else. I played DDO when it released as a P2P game. I play it still. I pay the exact same amount for my subscription now as I did when it released, the only difference being I get more content now that it has gone F2P. There is literally no way you will pay more money to access the same content you do now in LoTRO if you stay subscribed, and now you will also have the option to spend, or not spend, a completely self-assigned amount for things you couldn't purchase before. Or, if times are tight, you can play the main storyline portion of the game completely free.
You're arguments about this "bleeding" effect Turbine is purportedly aiming at it's customers is absolute and unequivocable fantasy. Turbine wants to offer potential customers a product, and it wants them to be able to sample and buy that product if the customer is happy with it. By offering more ways to pay for said product, they hope to enable a larger amount of customers to do so.
Worried about the community with the potential influx of these new F2P customers? Guess what, they are people just like you. Some are smart, some may be idiots, others are looking for a quick free glance in to the game, and some will be long-time residents who decide to stay. If the addition of more customers to "your" game seems to be a scary proposition, take a long look in the mirror, because the traits of the "bad" element you are so worried about are probably things you yourself are capable and culpable of now. These new players will assimilate only as well as those veteran players allow them to. You can either help them become a part of the community, or treat them as hostile and watch them become what you fear.
One final note, 99 percent of the posters in this thread need to learn how to spell. You are a glaring example of just how completely ignorant and uneducated the vast majority of online gamers have become.
Doc