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If you preordered MO but where holding out beware
shalisgod
Member Posts: 4
When MO launched they initiated all preorders as accounts (no matter if you preordered 1 month before or 1 year before release june 9th), the initial 1 month time started ticking and a billing cycle with the CC info that you used to preorder was initiated for the games subscription.
Its impossible to remove your CC from the system. But you can stop the renewing if you don't wish to play the game at this time. Unfortunately the initial 1 month time is not replaceable by SV at this time.
Just a heads up. I know the only warning they gave was a email at release which could have been missed by many in junk/alternate emails etc.
Personally i find it appalling that they did this.
Comments
Yep there is already a thread about this. But dosen't hurt to let people know though.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
So they've done it after all. I'm almost surprised.
No, your not. They have never said that it would be possible to move the free month.
Initiating the subscription, not the free month activation.
Yea I went in this last weekend and canceled the renewal after spending 3 days downloading and trying to launch the game only to be told that there is something wrong and that I need to reinstall, after the 4 th try I said to hell with it.
I was hoping this would be a good game but I guess its back to waiting for TERA
Assassin's like to do it in the dark and from behind.
And in other news, stealing is actually good as long as you notify people in advance.
You know, screw this. Anyone still arguing this point after months is either trolling or a few brain cells short of a self-preservation instinct.
This is a case that I hate to say "I told you so", because people are going to get ninja billed just so SV can make a few bucks.
The good news is that with threads like the other one, this is well documented so if people get ninja billed, they can call up the EU commission and report SV for this type of unethical behavior, and you'll see MO shut down as fast as their servers go offline.
Expect that they send this out in an e-mail.
Mortal Online Customer Information
June 9th 2010
Auto-subscription
Today Mortal Online goes live!
You are receiving this email because of your Mortal Online pre-order purchase. The initial free month you received with your game purchase begins today, and regular billing will begin one month from today.
If you do not wish to auto-subscribe, please log into your account [Link] and cancel the option.
We also want to formally inform you about the new TOS, the Naming Policy, the EULA and the Reimbursement Policy.
All of which can be found on mortalonline.com.
So, there is no ninja billing. Since the e-mail there is nothing illegal. You didn't do a "I told you so".
...
*headdesk*
Faith in humanity ... vaning.
I *facepalmed* myself. I cannot understand how people think this is moral or legal at all, but I suppose when you defend SV in spite of the obvious illegality of what they are doing, there really is not an argument to bother with, with these people. They will defend SV if they murdered babies saying "Well they sent out a note that your babies would be murdered".
*facepalm*
yup. baby murdering.
*emote*
I know that you take it lightly that others will be ninja charged -- if that email got caught by a spam filter, or whatever... people *will* wind up paying for something they did not want, nor did they agree to pay for.
I just don't see how you take a situation that will affect people negatively, and make a mockery of it and troll the idea that people will get screwed, and SV is doing it on purpose.
Perhaps... but you made a mockery of baby murdering, so we're square.
Off-topic: Disney exploits child labor. Just sayin'
Mine was hyperbole to show how ridiculous the defense looks, and you fell right into proving me right.
And Disney exploits child labor in China, where what they are doing is actually legal. Unethical, but legal.
What SV is doing is illegal in the EU, and in the US. And if they wind up ninja billing people, you'll see the consequence of that. In a way, I'm surprised they did it, but it rather proves they have zero concern about the longevity of the game and instead, just want to collect as much cash as possible as quickly as possible. When the complaints start coming in, they are going to face a lot of trouble, and if Visa/MC/Amex have a lot of chargebacks to SV -- they won't accept any more payments TO SV either. It's going to be an entertaining month when the resubs happen.
Gah, I fell right into it!!!
Anyway, this is the problem with game forums, everything gets overhyped. There's no way SV can deliver as much fail on July 9th as you're hyping, so everyone'll be disappointed no matter what
Also.. it won't be July 9th. Charges will be initiated.. then hit accounts.. folks might not get statements until August depending on their billing cycles.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You of all people should actually be taking this seriously funk, as a fan of the game you should be worrying about it's continued success. If they receive to many charge backs their merchants account will be labeled fraudulent and not only will they incur monetary penalties they will also lose the right to accept credit cards and paypal as forms of payment.
That is not good for an MMO.
And the combination of pre-order charge backs (Due to there no refund policy) and this could very well put them over their limit.
You don't have to believe me on this either, simply check out the readily available info out there regarding charge backs. If you're to lazy to do your research though, simply don't reply as it would be a waste of time.
I have tried to explain this time, and time again. SV will be hit with a lawsuit, they won't be able to charge anybody else because their billing method will be negated (no more credit cards or PayPal), and on top of that -- they will have to pay the fees associated with the chargebacks.
They are setting themselves up to basically collect the cash and run. There is no way I would think even SV is stupid enough to think that they are going to get away with this, and it's obvious that the long term isn't really a point to make here any more -- they are playing for a short term gain only. Sending an email out is irrelevant in this matter, and if they want to engage in fraudulent and illegal behavior, I hope the full weight of the law comes down on them for it.
Because if they go through with this behavior, and charge people fraudulently, having held their credit card information against their will -- you won't have a game to play pretty soon. If anything, the fans of this game should be telling SV this stuff but I think that the message has been heard loud and clear -- and ignored on purpose. So yea, don't say I didn't tell you so when you guys come asking us "Come back, it's really good now" as the game starts dying off. In situations like these where people are getting screwed, I feel bad about being right but glad that SV is taking steps to basically turn their own behavior into putting themselves out of business. It will be a good history lesson in the future, should people choose to remember it.
To clarify, I'm not defending auto-subscribe or SV. MO is a good MMO, but good MMO's come and go. I'm simply stating that the backlash against SV won't be as severe as some people are speculating/hoping for. Good or bad, I don't care. Way I see it, if 50 bucks gets me a month of a fun game and front-row seats to that game's destruction, it's not the worst 50 bucks I've ever spent.
My prediction again (for future "I told you so" reference), is this: SV will by-and-large get away with it.
I don't understand. The auto-renew toggle was in no way sprung on anyone who has been alive and conscious for the last several months, nor is defaulting to an auto-renewed account unusual for (very legal and successful) businesses.
Not that I expect Mortal Online to be successful....
A lot of people bought the pre-order and played the game, then forgot about it because they didn't like it. Some, like my friend, may have been redeployed to the military and don't care about this game either.
SV took these people's credit card information, stored it without their knowledge, and are proceeding to use it without their explicit permission. The email they sent out is irrelevant -- unless you are okay with being charged for things without your consent, I suppose that works for you. But in the land of legalities... it doesn't. And it won't.
Dark and Light didn't.................. people thought they would get away with it too lol.
Not gonna run through the whole thing again. If interested in the full story read the UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR thread on this forum. The key points that you seem to be missing though:
- The game opened for pre-orders about 11 months ago
- The TOS at the time of sale clearly stated that you would be subscribed to the game AFTER CHOOSING A SUBSCRITION METHOD AND DURATION"
- At the time of purchase there was NO account section with subscription info.. this was added MANY (6-8+ ) months later
- Following their own TOS (in place at the time of purchase) noone who bought the game at that time should be enrolled in a subscription since they never CHOOSE A SUBSCRIPTION METHOD AND DURATION
- There was also never a "cancel" option prior to the websit re-do 6-8 months after the pre-orders started
- Many people (many is subjective) purchased the game.. looked at it.. and gave up month ago. These people have zero reason to believe they would be ninja-subscribed to the game according to the games own TOS.
- Recently SV updated the TOS and have retroactively (and without consent) applied the new TOS to the original pre-orders. As such they have taken everyone who ever bought the game (11 months ago) and decided to auto-subscribe them to the same game. Even if they haven't logged in for 10 months.
- SV has decided that simply sending an email to everyone saying if you don't want us to charge you again.. log into the website and cancel.
- This is 100% unethical and possibly illegal as the burden should not be placed on a former customer to have to go turn off a feature that never existed and wasn't agreed to at the time of purchase. In addition since 11 months have past many people (again.. subjective term) will have changed services and have new emails. I know that last July I was on Comcast and now I am on ATT.
- Bottom line.. people have to actually agree to a service in order to be charged. A company cannot go against it's own TOS and ninja subscribe people with a disclaimer that if you don't like it you can now go cancel. This only applies to the people who ordered the game during the first 6 months or so before there was an account section, a subscription section, a cancel section and a different TOS. Why would someone who was told (via TOS) that a subscription would be active after the customer chose a sub method and duration, assume that 11 months later they would be ninja subscribbed to a game they haven't played for 10 months?
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People make a hen out of a chicken. SV have sent out an email to all people that have bought their game that they can set unsubscribe. If you have bought the game and created an account, then that account is active. It would have been strange if people that are playing the game, at release, manually have to set it on before playing, when they already am playing the game.
It has also happen me several times that I have had an active account more than one month just because I have forgot to set it OFF, not the end of the world really. That is my fault not the game company. Same in this case. And if the case is that someone have forget to turn it off, it's not the end of the world. If that is the case they should sell their comp or try finding a job.
Seriously not a big deal.
I'll state it again since it may have been missed...
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018