People make a hen out of a chicken. SV have sent out an email to all people that have bought their game that they can set unsubscribe. If you have bought the game and created an account, then that account is active. It would have been strange if people that are playing the game, at release, manually have to set it on before playing, when they already am playing the game.
It has also happen me several times that I have had an active account more than one month just because I have forgot to set it OFF, not the end of the world really. That is my fault not the game company. Same in this case. And if the case is that someone have forget to turn it off, it's not the end of the world. If that is the case they should sell their comp or try finding a job.
Seriously not a big deal.
I'll state it again since it may have been missed...
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
But it is standard that when you have set up an account after you bought the game the subscription starts rolling.
People make a hen out of a chicken. SV have sent out an email to all people that have bought their game that they can set unsubscribe. If you have bought the game and created an account, then that account is active. It would have been strange if people that are playing the game, at release, manually have to set it on before playing, when they already am playing the game.
It has also happen me several times that I have had an active account more than one month just because I have forgot to set it OFF, not the end of the world really. That is my fault not the game company. Same in this case. And if the case is that someone have forget to turn it off, it's not the end of the world. If that is the case they should sell their comp or try finding a job.
Seriously not a big deal.
I'll state it again since it may have been missed...
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
But it is standard that when you have set up an account after you bought the game the subscription starts rolling. Everyone it to work that way.
.... Yes, when you have bought the game... not when you have simply pre-ordered it.
People make a hen out of a chicken. SV have sent out an email to all people that have bought their game that they can set unsubscribe. If you have bought the game and created an account, then that account is active. It would have been strange if people that are playing the game, at release, manually have to set it on before playing, when they already am playing the game.
It has also happen me several times that I have had an active account more than one month just because I have forgot to set it OFF, not the end of the world really. That is my fault not the game company. Same in this case. And if the case is that someone have forget to turn it off, it's not the end of the world. If that is the case they should sell their comp or try finding a job.
Seriously not a big deal.
I'll state it again since it may have been missed...
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
But it is standard that when you have set up an account after you bought the game the subscription starts rolling. Everyone it to work that way.
.... Yes, when you have bought the game... not when you have simply pre-ordered it.
So, you mean all people that have bought the game and playing the game should have to login on their accout info and then set it active ... when they already are active? I think the current solution what they did is better.
People make a hen out of a chicken. SV have sent out an email to all people that have bought their game that they can set unsubscribe. If you have bought the game and created an account, then that account is active. It would have been strange if people that are playing the game, at release, manually have to set it on before playing, when they already am playing the game.
It has also happen me several times that I have had an active account more than one month just because I have forgot to set it OFF, not the end of the world really. That is my fault not the game company. Same in this case. And if the case is that someone have forget to turn it off, it's not the end of the world. If that is the case they should sell their comp or try finding a job.
Seriously not a big deal.
I'll state it again since it may have been missed...
This has nothing to do with auto-subscribing as a business process. It has to do with enrolling people into an auto subscription without their permission, against the companies own TOS.. 11 months after a purchase.
But it is standard that when you have set up an account after you bought the game the subscription starts rolling.
OK perhaps you are not following what I am trying to say. The companies own TOS.. specifically stated... that your subscription would occur AFTER you chose a subscription duration and payment method. These people did neither. Is it standard for a company to ignore it's own TOS? 11 months after purchase?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So, you mean all people that have bought the game and playing the game should have to login on their accout info and then set it active ... when they already are active? I think the current solution what they did is better.
No.. the people that bought the game AFTER the new TOS was in place and actually chose and/or agreed to the subscription can continue to be auto-subscribed as thats what they agreed to.
Anyone who DID NOT agree to this should NOT be auto-subbed..
Seems very simple.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So, you mean all people that have bought the game and playing the game should have to login on their accout info and then set it active ... when they already are active? I think the current solution what they did is better.
No.. the people that bought the game AFTER the new TOS was in place and actually chose and/or agreed to the subscription can continue to be auto-subscribed as thats what they agreed to.
Anyone who DID NOT agree to this should NOT be auto-subbed..
Seems very simple.
It's even more simple than that -- SV kept people's credit card information on file without their consent. That in and of itself is illegal in the EU and US. If you want to keep your credit card info on file, you usually have to "agree" to it. See Amazon, or Newegg or WOW, or SWG or whatever else. The Terms of Service are irrelevant because they kept your credit card information on file. You can't send out a new TOS arbitrarily to try to cover your ass for ninja billing people. They have to be made aware there is a new TOS, then they have to agree to it, THEN they put their credit card information in to subscribe to the game.
StarVault knows that if people actually had to do that, the amount of subscribers they would get without forcing them would be really, really low -- especially given the state of the game at this point. So instead, they are using totally illegal methods to get a few bucks from unsuspecting customers, and by the time those customers realize it and file against SV, they will be out spending that money already and close up shop. Again, this makes it painfully clear that SV doesn't care about the long term status of the game, because doing this even an idiot would realize would put their entire subscription revenue in jeopardy.
And if that's the way it goes, it will make Dark and Light look like a smashing success by comparison.
Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say in that original TOS and EULA there's probably some fine print somewhere that states they can change their terms/ agreement at their own discretion any time they feel like it. Banks,Insurance companies, pretty much all financial institutions, and I'm betting all MMO publishers/ providers have this listed somewhere in their agreements.
Bottom line, yeah they'll get away with it legally, but legal or not, if your players feel like you're making a desperate money grab for their wallets it's gonna come back and bite you.
Mythic was already hurting with WAR, but after the big credit card screw up, I know a lot of people who cancelled their subs because they felt like they just couldn't trust them ( I'm kind of wondering if this distrust will hurt EA's Star Wars mmo at all).
At the end of the day, legal or not, it's terrible customer service and potentially bad PR and not a very smart way to hit the ground running. If they have any kind of sense or anybody with any kind of CS experience over there they'll make this right
somehow.
But these MMO companies..What ten,eleven years later and they still don't seem to understand that bad CS and PR can kill you, somehting that anyone who's ever run their own business or worked in any kind of other service industry, hell even the 7.25 an hour kid at the counter at Mickey D's get that drilled into their head.
But it does make for an interesting "forum rubbernecking" experience.
Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say in that original TOS and EULA there's probably some fine print somewhere that states they can change their terms/ agreement at their own discretion any time they feel like it. Banks,Insurance companies, pretty much all financial institutions, and I'm betting all MMO publishers/ providers have this listed somewhere in their agreements.
Bottom line, yeah they'll get away with it legally, but legal or not, if your players feel like you're making a desperate money grab for their wallets it's gonna come back and bite you.
Mythic was already hurting with WAR, but after the big credit card screw up, I know a lot of people who cancelled their subs because they felt like they just couldn't trust them ( I'm kind of wondering if this distrust will hurt EA's Star Wars mmo at all).
At the end of the day, legal or not, it's terrible customer service and potentially bad PR and not a very smart way to hit the ground running. If they have any kind of sense or anybody with any kind of CS experience over there they'll make this right
somehow.
But these MMO companies..What ten,eleven years later and they still don't seem to understand that bad CS and PR can kill you, somehting that anyone who's ever run their own business or worked in any kind of other service industry, hell even the 7.25 an hour kid at the counter at Mickey D's get that drilled into their head.
But it does make for an interesting "forum rubbernecking" experience.
I don't think there was fine print to say that they were going to save my credit card information. Somebody had the TOS/EULA from when we preordered, it's pretty cut and dry. If they are going to try to go this route, let them. I'm going to just sit on the sidelines (with my money already refunded, thanks AMEX!) and watch the fallout happen. You're definitely right on that one.
It's even more simple than that -- SV kept people's credit card information on file without their consent. That in and of itself is illegal in the EU and US. If you want to keep your credit card info on file, you usually have to "agree" to it. See Amazon, or Newegg or WOW, or SWG or whatever else. The Terms of Service are irrelevant because they kept your credit card information on file. You can't send out a new TOS arbitrarily to try to cover your ass for ninja billing people. They have to be made aware there is a new TOS, then they have to agree to it, THEN they put their credit card information in to subscribe to the game.
Excellent point.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So they've done it after all. I'm almost surprised.
This is a case that I hate to say "I told you so", because people are going to get ninja billed just so SV can make a few bucks.
The good news is that with threads like the other one, this is well documented so if people get ninja billed, they can call up the EU commission and report SV for this type of unethical behavior, and you'll see MO shut down as fast as their servers go offline.
Since the e-mail there is nothing illegal.
...
*headdesk*
Faith in humanity ... vaning.
Seriously, the horse is dead guys. If you pre-ordered and you don't know about this yet, you have been living under a rock and should probably be put out of your misery because of sheer stupidity.
So they've done it after all. I'm almost surprised.
This is a case that I hate to say "I told you so", because people are going to get ninja billed just so SV can make a few bucks.
The good news is that with threads like the other one, this is well documented so if people get ninja billed, they can call up the EU commission and report SV for this type of unethical behavior, and you'll see MO shut down as fast as their servers go offline.
Since the e-mail there is nothing illegal.
...
*headdesk*
Faith in humanity ... vaning.
Seriously, the horse is dead guys. If you pre-ordered and you don't know about this yet, you have been living under a rock and should probably be put out of your misery because of sheer stupidity.
Or like a normal rational person you forgot about the game and moved on and generally don't read emails from them as they tend to be "Please come back, we don't suck anymore" and deserve to be labeled spam.
Only the insane visit the forums of a game they no longer have an interest. And yes, I fully understand that includes me lol.
So they've done it after all. I'm almost surprised.
This is a case that I hate to say "I told you so", because people are going to get ninja billed just so SV can make a few bucks.
The good news is that with threads like the other one, this is well documented so if people get ninja billed, they can call up the EU commission and report SV for this type of unethical behavior, and you'll see MO shut down as fast as their servers go offline.
Since the e-mail there is nothing illegal.
...
*headdesk*
Faith in humanity ... vaning.
Seriously, the horse is dead guys. If you pre-ordered and you don't know about this yet, you have been living under a rock and should probably be put out of your misery because of sheer stupidity.
Or like a normal rational person you forgot about the game and moved on and generally don't read emails from them as they tend to be "Please come back, we don't suck anymore" and deserve to be labeled spam.
Only the insane visit the forums of a game they no longer have an interest. And yes, I fully understand that includes me lol.
In a way, I'm glad he is defending their behavior. It will be all the more ironic when SV gets caught doing this to people, because it has been explained so many times, that there really shouldn't be a surprise when the EU goes after SV for fraud.
Comments
But it is standard that when you have set up an account after you bought the game the subscription starts rolling.
.... Yes, when you have bought the game... not when you have simply pre-ordered it.
So, you mean all people that have bought the game and playing the game should have to login on their accout info and then set it active ... when they already are active? I think the current solution what they did is better.
OK perhaps you are not following what I am trying to say. The companies own TOS.. specifically stated... that your subscription would occur AFTER you chose a subscription duration and payment method. These people did neither. Is it standard for a company to ignore it's own TOS? 11 months after purchase?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No.. the people that bought the game AFTER the new TOS was in place and actually chose and/or agreed to the subscription can continue to be auto-subscribed as thats what they agreed to.
Anyone who DID NOT agree to this should NOT be auto-subbed..
Seems very simple.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's even more simple than that -- SV kept people's credit card information on file without their consent. That in and of itself is illegal in the EU and US. If you want to keep your credit card info on file, you usually have to "agree" to it. See Amazon, or Newegg or WOW, or SWG or whatever else. The Terms of Service are irrelevant because they kept your credit card information on file. You can't send out a new TOS arbitrarily to try to cover your ass for ninja billing people. They have to be made aware there is a new TOS, then they have to agree to it, THEN they put their credit card information in to subscribe to the game.
StarVault knows that if people actually had to do that, the amount of subscribers they would get without forcing them would be really, really low -- especially given the state of the game at this point. So instead, they are using totally illegal methods to get a few bucks from unsuspecting customers, and by the time those customers realize it and file against SV, they will be out spending that money already and close up shop. Again, this makes it painfully clear that SV doesn't care about the long term status of the game, because doing this even an idiot would realize would put their entire subscription revenue in jeopardy.
And if that's the way it goes, it will make Dark and Light look like a smashing success by comparison.
Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say in that original TOS and EULA there's probably some fine print somewhere that states they can change their terms/ agreement at their own discretion any time they feel like it. Banks,Insurance companies, pretty much all financial institutions, and I'm betting all MMO publishers/ providers have this listed somewhere in their agreements.
Bottom line, yeah they'll get away with it legally, but legal or not, if your players feel like you're making a desperate money grab for their wallets it's gonna come back and bite you.
Mythic was already hurting with WAR, but after the big credit card screw up, I know a lot of people who cancelled their subs because they felt like they just couldn't trust them ( I'm kind of wondering if this distrust will hurt EA's Star Wars mmo at all).
At the end of the day, legal or not, it's terrible customer service and potentially bad PR and not a very smart way to hit the ground running. If they have any kind of sense or anybody with any kind of CS experience over there they'll make this right
somehow.
But these MMO companies..What ten,eleven years later and they still don't seem to understand that bad CS and PR can kill you, somehting that anyone who's ever run their own business or worked in any kind of other service industry, hell even the 7.25 an hour kid at the counter at Mickey D's get that drilled into their head.
But it does make for an interesting "forum rubbernecking" experience.
I don't think there was fine print to say that they were going to save my credit card information. Somebody had the TOS/EULA from when we preordered, it's pretty cut and dry. If they are going to try to go this route, let them. I'm going to just sit on the sidelines (with my money already refunded, thanks AMEX!) and watch the fallout happen. You're definitely right on that one.
Excellent point.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Seriously, the horse is dead guys. If you pre-ordered and you don't know about this yet, you have been living under a rock and should probably be put out of your misery because of sheer stupidity.
Or like a normal rational person you forgot about the game and moved on and generally don't read emails from them as they tend to be "Please come back, we don't suck anymore" and deserve to be labeled spam.
Only the insane visit the forums of a game they no longer have an interest. And yes, I fully understand that includes me lol.
In a way, I'm glad he is defending their behavior. It will be all the more ironic when SV gets caught doing this to people, because it has been explained so many times, that there really shouldn't be a surprise when the EU goes after SV for fraud.