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Sigil vs. Microsoft contradiction regarding virtual currency
Hifructose
Member Posts: 308
Hi all. Some might remember me swearing off this site because of IGE ads, well I have for the most part. I am just here to see what you guys think about this. I posted this in the Vanguard forums and I think it might be appropriate for this forum, or it is at least an issue that players of any mmorpg can relate to. So here's the contradiction. Sigil games is adamantly opposed to virtual currency sales, and yet they are planning to release Vanguard:Saga of Heroes on XBOX 2, which will allow players to buy virtual currency, items and who knows what else for real money. and yes, I dont know if i spelled adamantly right...in a rush now...but here check this out.
http://www.okratas.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=59
Comments
Man, nice interview. And I agree with what the author says " Let me just say, this is perhaps one of the most honest and straight forward Q&A's you will have ever read on the topic.".
About that Micro$oft microtransaction, well I dont like the idea. It's all about the money again
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Great read thanks...
I guess it plays into what many of the regular posters here have observed over the last few months. That is no one is going to be able to stop the IGE business model from proliferating in some form or another. The logical step was for the game companies themselves to control it. Brad Mc is no fool Im sure he will work out a way to wrestle control of the currency of his own game.
Interesting times to be sure...
Who knows in years to come we may see high schools offering a certificate in online gaming and people actually playing and earning for a living..... who knows...
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Welcome to the online store of the future -- the one embedded in your favorite video game."
"Analysts say the money is good -- perhaps too good to pass up, whether a publisher likes the concept or not."
uhuh, all this + ingame commercials
When they're done thinking about these annoying features, maybe they'll make some fantastic games for all the extra cash
(yeah i don't really belive that lol)
That's what happens when higher management is asked to find more profit for the company, a stagnating profit margin is not good, that's the basics of kapitalism.
I find it sad that people cheat in MMOGs since you are not only cheating yourself. Finding it sad is not a solution and now that the market exists on a large scale it'll be nearly impossible to make it vanish. On a developpers side, Microsofts point of view is fully defendable, why would they let a third party steal their content and sell it to players if they can do that for themselves.
Sigil is very honourable in its battle against companies like IGE but in the end this battle was already won by those willing to buy the items online. The only course of action that would make a difference is to have both sellers and buyers punished with a criminal record and a substantial fine.
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I actuallt think that's a pretty clever way to harm companies like IGE. These microtransactions will be recorded and tracked, which would also mean that other transactions could be traced too. People don't buy money from IGE just to have loads of money they do it to buy the items, if these items are offered for sale at a fraction of what IGE would pay then surely that would harm any IGE profits. this is because IGE would have to offer less than Microsoft which would not be profitable. IGE may have a lot of financial muscle, but Microsfot has a LOT more and I would love to see IGE vs Microsoft in a legal battle. I'm no fan of wither Microsoft or IGE (in fact I hate this company), but between the two I'd choose the lesser of two evils, Microsoft.
It may sound like Im condoning selling virtual items, but if it's done by the publishers themselves to repel companies like IGE at a fraction of the cost then sadly that may be what future mmorpgs will be like. I don't like it, but if that's what it takes.
Its just a way for developers to control more of what they build.Fact of the matter is buying virtual items is not going away.Microsoft has already stated that the majority of the games on XBOX2 will have online content.Now that its confirmed that a mmo WILL be released on a console we will see developers move away from PC only mmo's.This will not only allow for more control of the games and items in them but develop for a platform that will run a game flawlessly.It also allows the developers to make more cash on the items being sold.
So whats the issue then?
If developers can sell items like IGE or Enott's does it make it ok to do so?
They are basically doing the same thing that both websites are doing.What if some developers release a veterans reward of say 1 million credits?They offer it to all veterans of an XBOX2 mmo for 24 hours.
Looks like developers are now putting this option into future games that are developed.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Lol, as much as I am against the whole concept, that does sound like fun. Well if you were raising characters, not farming currency, but I guess Microsoft will just have a few people to create the currency everytime someone wants it.
Anyway, I didn't have any particular motives for posting this, just found it very interesting. Reading this has made me think though; I understand that the whole idea of virtual sales comes from the demand for this and players that feel it's acceptable, but what about all the players with the demand for a game free (or close to free) of this?
I mean in a supply and demand market it seems someone would want to monopolize the demographic of people who don't like virtual trading with their games. I thought Sigil was going to do this.
I was really looking forward to this game (even though it is not pvp or siege based, so virtual currency/items trading doesn't seem to have quite an impact). This was the first company that said they were willing to spend the money it took prevent these activities, and to save their integrity (or something like that). And their problem was not solely with the secondary markets, it was with the whole concept!!! If they are not going to do it then who will????
and as I understand it, at least for some time, Vanguard:Saga of Heroes will be the ONLY mmorpg released on XBOX 2.... thanks for the discussion thus far.
I think that even though it will be released on the XBOX 2 which supports microtranactions, it doesn't necessarily have to utilize that functionality.
I'm pretty sure that is what will happen... in fact, the Microsoft article supports this in saying:
By saying "those who do not take part", I believe it alludes to the fact that this is optional.
Yup, I just waded through the Vangaurd forums (probably should've done that first...doh) and someone from Microsoft came to say that they will not be applying this to Vangaurd. Suprising though!
That article is somewhat misleading, making it seem like Microsoft is after exactly that: the money that secondary markets make from MMORPGS the 190 million kajillion or whatever. Also if Vanguard is the only mmorpg on there, I guess there won't be any trading regarding mmorpgs.
It has raised the question of whether Microsoft will use Microtransactions as an easy way to get new content out for different types of games, or as a way to put out the least for the most money, as many companies have been doing with weak expansions that could've been in the original for example.
It doesn't seem like many people understand exactly how they will use this yet. But anyway you can find discussions for that at Vanguard website and other places.
It seems like Sigil will still be fighting the good fight, while Microsoft unlocks new cars on a racing game for a small fee or something (which is a whole another debate, at least one not appropriate for this forum) I am content for now....
"So whats the issue then? If developers can sell items like IGE or Enott's does it make it ok to do so?"
Different games, different rules.
Throwing a check on someone is legal in hocky, but not in basketball. It'd be silly to argue the point of whether a body check was acceptable in one sport by comparing it to another.
If an MMO game decides up front that out-of-game purchases are legal, and designs the game accordingly, then that's how you'd play it. Gamers can decide before they join whether they want that game, or one with a different set of rules. Both types are out there.
Myself, I'll always be choosing games that forbid out-of-game purchases. I want it clean.
I think it's great that more new games are coming out that mimic the 2nd Life, PE models. There's obviously a category of gamer that enjoys playing this way. But it doesn't justify that IGE spoils games that were designed for the rest of us.
What this goes further to point out more than any other point is not that a developer/publisher (in this case, Sigil) would have objected to the resale of virtual items, but that they do not want to be left out of the loop in the profiting from those items. That has long been the argument made by many of the veteran MMOG publishers/developers...they simply revile the concept that money is made with their product and they aren't involved in the transaction.
This is the true motivation for companies like Sigil to protest secondary sales of virtual items.
It has nothing to do with this phony excuse of it enabling some players to cheat by not earning items themselves.
How is being given something for free by a friend ingame less of a cheat than buying the same item from a stranger for real money? In neither situation did the person receiving the item earn it, and therefore logically both situations would equate to cheating according to Sigil's spokesperson. No gaming company will of course define giving friends items for free as a cheat, because this would tear at the fabric of an online gaming community, so to suggest that buying the same items from strangers for real money is a cheat, is hypocrisy.
As far as farmers disrupting game play for others, then they should have their accounts suspended or banned like any other disruptive player. Keep in mind though that many farmers are not Ebayers, but simply players trying to earn coin ingame to purchase items ingame.
I have met polite Ebayers who will not contest mobs or areas when players need or want to hunt those areas and I have met extremely rude players who were farming items for ingame use only.
There is a big difference between someone selling items on Ebay that they earned ingame, or a gaming company creating items from thin air to sell directly to their playerbase. It is obviously more harmful to the integrity of a game and it's economy for the latter to occur. I would NEVER play a game which sold items directly as that would epitomize and legitimize a system of class structure among it's players.
If gaming companies want to share in the profits of secondary market selling of virtual items, then why don't they replace Ebay and facilitate these sales between players accounts for a fee. They could make a fortune and remove all fraud from these secondary market sales.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I would wage $10 that Brad have something planned with ''specific servers''!
Peoples will prolly have the choice to go with the servers where they can trade and buy for RL cash, trade only for ingame currency or no trade at all. In theory IGE could still try to sell on the trade for ingame currency servers, but they have to convert peoples who are against it from a starting point, which mean it will be extremely hard to do...especially that anyone who buy from IGE on this server will see the low prices by Microsoft on the others servers and would be offered a free transfer at any moment toward those all purchases possible servers(1 way transfer hehe).
Good move devs! I am ready to tease peoples who will join my non-trades for RL cash servers and buyn from IGE, telling them they buy for 10 times the price on the regular servers, which mean they are pretty dimwits!
Peoples who are incredibly richs and would not mind the prices would still not like to be called dimwits, and somehow, I suppose the CS will not see those reports against me! 
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren