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Gimme Crew!
Siyah
Member Posts: 131
Hi all,
I have been playing EvE for over a year now and really enjoying it. However, I am always on the look out for opportunity to increase the RP side of MMORPGs and I have an idea I wanted to share with the community.
EvE ships are run by pod pilots, "semi-gods roaming the heavens". Great! Now this concept is fantastic when I fly a frigate or a cruiser, but I struggle with immersion when I fly my Dominix or ORCA.
I recently re-installed Silent Hunter (big fan of realistic sims too) and remembered how the captain has to set up a basic "crew" for maintenance, gunnery, and other duties on board.
Combining EvE with the Silent Hunter's basic "crew management" concept got me excited. What if... what if EvE ships had a "crew" property a la Silent Hunter? What if I could remain a semi-god Pod Pilot, but in need of a basic crew to operate ships above the cruiser category?
EvE already has all the elements required. I have traded Scientists, Soldiers, Janitors (all Passenger Trade Goods) and what not many times before. These could now be bought and used to fit my ship. For instance:
-> ORCA crew requirement: 20 scientists, 3 janitors, 6 maintenance (new type)
-> Megathron crew requirement: 5 scientists, 2 janitors, 5 maintenance, 10 marines/elite fighters/turret operations (new type)
Going through missions succesfully could increase the crew's "morale" property. This in turn could have a slight positive impact on the overall ships' ability (e.g. +1% turret speed, -1% laser cycle, +2% warp speed). Some of the crew members could die during missions under certain conditions (e.g. hull breach), hence losing some of the added benefits mentioned above.
Initially CCP only needs to keep this simple, but it would set the foundation for more advanced crew management functionality.
Just a thought, but I personally think it would add to the immersion and bring in a new dimension to flying those big ships.
Thanks for reading
Comments
I agree, they should add some system where if you add a crew you receive very minimal bonuses. This is something CCP said they've definitely thought about and have it on their 'list'.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
This actually has been suggested and is recognized by CCP has a valid suggestion.
No idea if its in their project list however. most likely not though
Although I like the idea alot..
This doesn't fit with the lore. You are basicly stuck in your pod. Your pod is connected with your brain. And the pod controls the ship.
That is how you are flying the ship, according the lore. There are no places to walk around or anything.
But meh, lore is just lore.. I think they should do it. I would love to walk around in my ship, if possible. Even if it doesn't add anything to the gameplay.
How could nameless disposable NPC crews increase the RP aspect?
And the lore has the capsuleer as being better than a pilot and crew:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Capsule_and_the_Clone
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
On topic i also would love to have a crew with some bonuses. Some examples could include the following ideas.
-Scientists where the cheapest teams could give you a very small boost to senor sensativaty making targeting faster, while the more Expensive scientist coulg give a very nice sensor boost as well as give you a small ECM boost as well as a good bonus to help lessen being scrambled.
-Engineers can give bonuses to Repers shields power etc.
-Marines can be used to defend your ships modules from say bourding sabatours. [a interesting idea bourding is].
-Gunnery officers have an obviouse effect.
I could go on really.
Another crew related idea occured to me when i was writing up on Scientists. The idea being of crew modules. For example a basic scientist would be able to work with what comes with your ship while an 'elite' science team would require a specalised high quality science lab module to do there work. Same goes with the rest of the crew.
To take this idea further why not make it so that if say a basic engineer can if he survives long enough get better at what he does eventually becomming a Scotty of the EvE world. This could make for an interesting trade good especially if this sort of crew learninng generates some farely random atributes you cant get by buying an elite grade crew member
.
This also opens up the idea of crew morrall and the possabilaty of strikes Sabotage or jumping ship if morral is low hence the marines. You could have the following modules to help this.
- Crew Quaters which would your crew prefer Bunkbeds which are shared between shifts i.e. you wake up in bed and its time to work as your bunkmate staggers into your bed to get his allioted rest period. Or would yo like your own room with possetions and an entertainment device so you can relax?
- A Morral officer who can help with morall.
-
- some sort of Entertaiment module for example a Bar of some sort.
- A Gym which has the duel effect of training your security guys [marines] and keep them fit.
Well this could go on but you get the picture dont you?
May be a few years before we see even a basic part of this but knowing CCP they are really good at adding on stuff to basic systems so who knows!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
On topic? Um, the on topic thing would be to realize that in the history of EVE:
There were pilots with crews.
Single capsuleers were better than pilots with crews.
Crews are a step backward - not forward.
Maybe if George Lucas gets involved and they make an EVE Prequel... you guys would be set.
This is not EVE Prequel. This is EVE.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
If the previous posters are correct and CCP did indeed mention a similar concept was being considered, it might be that the lore allows for it after all.
What value does having a crew to "manage" bring to the game.... hmmm....what value does having different icons for weapon types bring to the game? It adds diversity, it adds something new, different, which is what sandbox games usually try to bring for immersion.
I don't care if the crew members are called John/Jack/Vincent/Pedro, but if designed well then one would be able to get special crew members from remote systems that add more bonus to turret speed because of their long history (lore!) as mercenaries fighting for the Minmatars. The possibilities are endless, and again we barely touch on the foundation layer.
The past: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Capsule_and_the_Clone
"Stories are told of pod pilot heroes flying on the side of the Caldari during the twilight years of the Gallente-Caldari war, executing maneuvers unthinkable to those encumbered with a full crew complement and the bothersome necessity of using vocal commands and hand-eye coordination to steer their vessels. Such pilots were a rare breed, though; because of the technology’s inherent dangers, capsule-fitted ships were not yet in mass production and existing models therefore had to be retro-fitted at great effort and expense."
By the time you issued your commands to your crew and they carried them out... you'd already be dead.
You would not have crew with any long history. They are not pod pilots. When the ship goes boom, so would they. Ships go boom all the time. They would be useless hindrances.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Regardless of the speed in the chain of command, some things could only be done by the hands of the crew - like hull repairs - but of course that has some nonsensical device to do it. IMO, crew would be a huge thing in the game, even if just as a money sink that must be paid wages and doesn't do much beyond extend the output of certain devices they are applied to.
I also think there should be a way to use the tourists, exotic dancers and homeless people you pick up here and there. Maybe a way to allow them to live in your ship and pay you rent, which could then go to paying the crew, but they take up room in the max count of crew as well (and maybe add values to functions like health/entertainment). All I know is that I would like to see a cantina on my ship feature exotic dancers I rescued in a past mission, that is if ambulation would allow me to walk in my own ship.
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Again, the average life expectancy of a ship in EVE that undocks would be...?
The fact that you working with the computers, automated systems, robotics and the rest of the engineering involved in bringing your ship to be makes far more sense than having crew - that is why it has reached the point that it has. It has evolved.
As for your "cruise ship"... you would have it built in a station and never leave it? Cause if you undock, somebody would suicide gank it just to hear you cry...
EVE is a PvP game... not Love Boat in Space.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Add to the lore, meanwhile adding in some most annoying gameplay I've ever heard of.
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As it says not a full crew compliment it does not say No crew compliment. Which means a ship like a cruiser with say a crewv of 100 for a non pod ship would be compared with say a crew of 23 for a pod ship. There duties would include generall maintenence Tru you have Rep moduls but i doubt they fix everything on a ship just the stuff for integraty such as support beams but who fixes things like damaged sensors that tell you that your ship is damaged. Sensors [sensors will need adjusting to get the result you get. Marines are needed to provide security.
As for crew not having a long History read the Chronicle 'Hand Of A Killer'. Its pointed out that we do have crew and that there deaths mean little when there are millions more who need a job. Also the ships still have Escape pods so some may survive.
As for someone saying why would we need the extra task of managing the crew i say Why Not? Its not like you have to manage them as your ships would come with a free basic crew with no bonuses or penalties.
However to some we like macromanagement.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Yes it is true that your ship could run on just advanced support computers and crew sized drones. But what happens when they break down due to battle damage? Say for example a wepon with high EM hits your hull surely a lot of your Systems would get some damage?
If no crew how can you fix the systems that run your ship?
Nothing wrong with the cruise ship idea at all in Empire Space and low sec. And in EvE risk is part of the game and we understand that.
And EvE is a PvP game but its not Only PvP.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hands_of_a_killer_(Chronicle)
That Chronicle was written back in 2005.
And it does not contradict what is stated here in any way:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Capsule_and_the_Clone
The Chronicle actually supports the Scientific Article.
The ship with a crew got wtfpwnt by the ship with a pod pilot...
Crews are a thing of the past. We have moved beyond them. We are better without them. The Chronicle you wanted me to read supports that...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
What in EVE is not PvP?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
VirusDancer is ofcourse right. Haveing a crew does sound cool but its silly considering that pod-piloting is the most efficient and fast way of doing things. In eve you are in the pod that connects your brain to your ship... What would you need a crew for?
Now haveing said that i don't see a rason why there shouldn't be ships piloted by more then one player... Huge mining ships or capital ships could be manned by more then one pilot...
I'm a roleplayer by nature but adding additional NPCs for no reason but fluff and money sink and being a bit against the lore with that doesn't strike me a s a good idea.
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This I could see. When you start getting into capital or even super capital size ships, along the lines of mobile POS - the having multiple pod pilots working together and responsible for the various aspects would be logical and also add a RP factor.
Then again, I've been one of the proponents of more slots on larger ships (the realistic thing of naval vessels not only having their big guns, but also their medium and little guns) - it would get to the point where even if it were not "difficult" for the pod pilot, it becomes difficult for the human sitting behind the screen trying to control all of that.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
While having multiple pod pilots pilot say a Dreadnought sounds and is cool What happens if one or more pilots lag out?
Also have to say non PvP includes Manufacturing, PvE, Marketing etc.
True you have Marketing PvP but thats just an extension of the market which is not the same asPURE PvP.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
While i am all for Lore, i think sticking to it so stricly actually limits RP. Most of the ships in EvE have a visual element representing a "command center" of some sort at the top or bottom of the ship. Again, for a frigate up to cruiser I can make myself believe that a pod pilot fits in there and can do it all. But when it comes to flying a freighter, battleship, ... the command center looks big enough to host a whole bunch of people, yet it is just me?
If the crew on my ship can't contribute to any piloting activity since I am the one and only semi-god on board with enough brain power, then my crew can most certainly help with non combat related activities:
- Load / unload cargo efficiently (cost reduction for trading due to increased efficiency of my crew vs station crew)
- Help fit ships (in case of the ORCA)
- Help with optimization of load inside the ship when looting / mining / salvaging (slight bonus increase to cargo space if you use have a crew)
- Repair damaged drones in drone bay
- "Fly" to planets to assist with PI activities (e.g. command centers there would need 50 men to operate them)
- ...
If we want to be creative about it there are many more "reasons" to have an optional crew on board. It won't change anything to the core mechanic of the game, so don't use a crew if you donj't want to. But I personally want to have the option to pick men and women to serve on board to help out with basic task a semi-god like myself doesn't care about... and it's a nice little touch to a great space MMO, at a very little cost.
I invite ppl to read about the Crew Management in Silent Hunter. It's very small, it's very simple, but it defintely add a dimension to the game. In EvE, there is so much more that could be done.
Thanks.
Pretty much everything that you are suggesting could be done by "crew" is already handled by robotics, machinery, etc - that handle it all in a more efficient manner.
You keep referencing a game that takes place during WWII... EVE takes place around 21,400 years after that.
Technology has come a wee ways since then.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Take a look at Project Athena:
Someone basically put together an In-Character type "guide" to several of the ships in the EvE Universe, and most of them state a "Crew Number" for example, the Apocalypse has a crew of 3598. Now, this is all lore-based and not computer-game-mechanics, but it does make for an interesting read
"Reading computer manuals without the hardware is a frustrating as reading sex manuals without the software."
-Arthur C. Clarke
PURE PvP? Um, player vs. player. The market pvp is more cutthroat in many cases than the pew pew in the vast reaches of space.
Manufacturing, Mining, Missions, Trading... pretty much every facet of the game is touched by PvP.
As for having one or more pilots lagging out, then at least you would still possibly have one or more pilots there as opposed to the only pilot having lagged out...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
How would you call this lore? It is unofficial fanfict. None of the data was provided by CCP, the author fictionalized/created all of his technical specifications.
This is one of the problems with EVE in a sense. You can see the comments on Massively where certain players are all over it.
EVE is funny that way - people flying the same ships - some knowing they are the only one in it - and others believing they are flying with crews. Sure, on one hand - if that is what gets them through the time they are logged in - more power to them. But just because their pretend makes them feel better than what the other folks are pretending, they should not expect game changes based on that...just go on pretending.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
In EVE Online, you play the role of one of the fanciful Fluteleers, piloting massive rodent habitats through the vast reaches of the SuperMegaPetMart. Using magical flutes provided by the pacifist feline race the Jovials (known as such for their jovial nature, including massive parties in the backroom of the store playing flutes and drinking wine spritzers).
Once, long, long ago, the Jovials were at war with the rodents of the store - but they had a change of heart and developed the magical technology used to create the magical flutes that would one day be used by the fanciful Fluteleers.
There are four factions in EVE Online, you have the Hamarr, the Ratdari, the Mousmatar, and the Gerbilente. Though the Jovials hoped to bring peace to the pet store, the rodent population once no longer faced with a common enemy turned on themselves.
So are you ready to join the fight?
Yeah, somebody wrote something - tada - it is lore...
edit: Though, that Project Athena is definitely an awesome effort on their part to provide optional supplemental information for those that would make use of it and shows a great deal of...Hell, could you call it anything but love for the game?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Apologies, was trying to differentiate between it being Actual Game Info and Non-Actual-Game-Info...
You have to wonder though - if there is only one person in the ship - in a pod no less - why so many windows?
"Reading computer manuals without the hardware is a frustrating as reading sex manuals without the software."
-Arthur C. Clarke