Where SW TOR isn't a 'WoW clone' or sortlike MMO's: the differences

Comments

• Augie Member Posts: 4

  June 2010

  StarWars 1970's

  Warcraft 1990's

  

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• Fishbaitz Member Posts: 229

  June 2010

  
  Originally posted by cyphers

  Yeah yeah, we've all seen the gazillion posts about how SW ToR will be a 'WoW clone', a comparison you will see often made with new MMO's. And it's not for nothing, there are things that look very much like WoW has it, as the toony or 'stylized' look, the basic combat, or the way they talk about a number of features being 'similar to WoW'. In truth, some of those aren't what only WoW has, but are pretty much common with the current MMO genre - you might as well call WoW a 'EQ clone' as from the time of EQ we've seen a lot of the same basic features pop up in most of the MMO's afterwards.

  In the same way with SW ToR: they're aiming to make a mass audience enjoy their game, so I don't expect them to take very large risks with the basic concepts of what a MMO has or is.

   

  Besides the similarities we also see already a number of aspects in which SW ToR distinguishes itself from a WoW or others of its ilk.

  Most of the things are still speculation - we still don't know how a lot of the game and gameplay will be - but here's the list of several differences:

   

  
  It has a sciencefiction theme: well, duh. Didn't notice it? How many MMO's have there been now with an overly done fantasy theme? With magic, dragons, or elves, dwarves, orcs? How very few with a scifi theme?

  
  

  
   While I enjoy Sci-Fi, this is only a cosmetic difference. It could be used to take a different direction in mechanics and gameplay, but it doesn't dictate that.

  
  

  
  Huge MMO world, with planets: it looks like the world in SW TOR will be massive, much larger even than a LotrO and of the scale of a Vanguard in size, probably even larger. The starter planets alone takes a small hour to cross from one end to the other and the other planets as the devs commented will be huge, far far larger.

  
  

  
  The size of the world doesn't matter a lot in gameplay, other than to space people out. Also, size =/= content. It all depends on the density of the content and if there are any interesting mechanics thrown in.

  
  

  
  Seamless integration of instances with the persistent world: you can move back and forth between the story instances and the persistent world as if it's all one, fully seamless.  

  
  

  
   Great for immersion, not that much impact on the game though.

  
  

  
  There'll be tiered maps: some planets will have several levels for their areas, the world map will change according on what 'floor' or level you are.

  
  

  
   See the size above.

  
  

  
  Personal spaceships: very much like player housing, but even more like in ME and ME2, where it serves as your personal space, your base, and a means for space travel and exploration.

  
  

  
   It's exactly player housing, which has very little impact on gameplay. They could make it so your ship does affect some things, I hope they do. They could make it change some things in the story or in PvP, but other than that it won't affect gameplay.

  
  

  
  Companions: some hate them already. But the way they've explained it is they're sort of enhanced pets or the Heroes in GW. But it looks they will be a big difference with other MMO's and be more: they will be used in several ways in the storytelling plus combined with the multifunctionality of each class they will help break the classic  healer-tank-dps team setup. It'll be no longer what class a group still need, but what classes a group has, and let the Companions fill up any gap. And in contrast with the Heroes in GW, they will not fill up a team spot.

  
  

  
  Could still pander to the holy trinity, set them up as a tank, healer, or dps and you have another piece of the trinity. I'm also a veteran GW player, and while heroes were nice they did tend to make the game less social. Granted, we could take 3 with us into an instance and they did things very well. My problem would be, its going to be aweful crowded if everybody has a companion and has it out at all times.

  
  

  
  Space is in the picture: we don't know in what form yet, but space will be included, at least in the form of space exploration and maybe/possibly more. Even then, having a large number of planets to wander around in plus space exploration is already more than most other current top MMO's have.

  
  

  
   Again, the size thing above.

  
  

  
  Full voice over: again, no other current MMO game has that.

  
  

  
  Little to no impact on gameplay at all.

  
  

  
  Storytelling, the 4^th pillar: love it, or hate it, but it's there. And in an extensive way no other MMO's at the moment have. The dialogues will have a lot in common with ME2, decisions matter, each class will have their own storylines (optional + possible to do with groups) and there will be world stories with a large impact.

  
  

  
  I love story, I love ME, ME2, and KOTOR. But story does not make good gameplay. It has though, made me sit through some horrid gameplay.

  
  

  
  No auto attack in combat

  
  

  
  Interesting, yes, but not a huge gamechanger.

  
  

  
  Classes that can specialize into two subsclasses: granted, you see that in some other MMO's like EQ2, but not in WoW.

  
  

  
  This is specialisation, which allows you to make the character play like you want it to. This is a plus, but it doesn't change the underlying mechanics in the least.

  
  

  
  Cover system in combat: players as well as NPC's will make use of the environment for cover

  
  

  
  This, is the only real gameplay differenc you have brought up. It adds a level of strategy to outflank your opponent(s) in order to kill them. This could be a game changer, we will have to wait and see how it is implimented.

  
  

  
   

  
  

  
   

  
  

  
  I am interested in SWTOR, I have eyes on other things but this is one of the big ones in my mind. You should learn to look past the cosmetic differences and try looking at things from a mechanics standpoint. A story is nice, but a good story does not make the game fun. A large world is great for completionists and explorers, but that doesn't make the game any better in and of itself. The Sci-Fi setting is a nice change of pace, but again is largely a cosmetic difference.

  
  

  
   

  
  

  
   

  
  

  
  For who likes to know in deatil what else of features SW TOR will have, this is what is currently known: take a look here

  
  

  Disagreement Heirarchy
• MMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

  June 2010

  About the differences being cosmetic for the most part, some of the arguments that people use to tag SW TOR a 'WoW clone' are also of a cosmetic nature, like the graphics that are toony or 'stylized'.

   

  Storylines, theme and setting  and how the worlds and areas are constructed matter as much to the gameplay experience of many MMO gamers as the general gameplay, because of a lot of that gameplay basically comes down to the same throughout the MMO's.

  If purely looked at the gameplay mechanics, then you could say that the majority of MMO's have been for 50-90% clones from eachother since the time of Everquest. Only with some MMO's that is easier to notice, but still the basics of as good as all of them are very similar.

   

  So if people are saying 'that game is just another WoW clone' often implying that they won't be playing it, they're basically saying, 'we want a MMO that hasn't the same gameplay mechanics that MMO's have had for 10 years, since we're bored of it'.

  The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
  
  The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
  Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
• Drachasor Member Posts: 2,678

  June 2010

  
  Originally posted by Fishbaitz

  
  Originally posted by cyphers
  
  

  It has a sciencefiction theme: well, duh. Didn't notice it? How many MMO's have there been now with an overly done fantasy theme? With magic, dragons, or elves, dwarves, orcs? How very few with a scifi theme?

  
   While I enjoy Sci-Fi, this is only a cosmetic difference. It could be used to take a different direction in mechanics and gameplay, but it doesn't dictate that.

  
  

  
  Huge MMO world, with planets: it looks like the world in SW TOR will be massive, much larger even than a LotrO and of the scale of a Vanguard in size, probably even larger. The starter planets alone takes a small hour to cross from one end to the other and the other planets as the devs commented will be huge, far far larger.

  
  

  
  The size of the world doesn't matter a lot in gameplay, other than to space people out. Also, size =/= content. It all depends on the density of the content and if there are any interesting mechanics thrown in.

  
  

  
  It does matter when there are off-track, sandboxy things to do, as the Devs have said.  WoW doesn't have that.

  
  

  
  Seamless integration of instances with the persistent world: you can move back and forth between the story instances and the persistent world as if it's all one, fully seamless.  

  
  

  
   Great for immersion, not that much impact on the game though.

  
  

  
  Immersion is part of gameplay.

  
  

  
  There'll be tiered maps: some planets will have several levels for their areas, the world map will change according on what 'floor' or level you are.

  
  

  
   See the size above.

  
  

  
  See size above on how you are wrong.  Adds more immersion as well (and we all know WoW doesn't care about immersion).

  
  

  
  Personal spaceships: very much like player housing, but even more like in ME and ME2, where it serves as your personal space, your base, and a means for space travel and exploration.

  
  

  
   It's exactly player housing, which has very little impact on gameplay. They could make it so your ship does affect some things, I hope they do. They could make it change some things in the story or in PvP, but other than that it won't affect gameplay.

  
  

  
  Again, immersion is part of gameplay.  Housing adds immersion.  You can bring friends on your ship and travel to places as well.

  
  

  
  Companions: some hate them already. But the way they've explained it is they're sort of enhanced pets or the Heroes in GW. But it looks they will be a big difference with other MMO's and be more: they will be used in several ways in the storytelling plus combined with the multifunctionality of each class they will help break the classic  healer-tank-dps team setup. It'll be no longer what class a group still need, but what classes a group has, and let the Companions fill up any gap. And in contrast with the Heroes in GW, they will not fill up a team spot.

  
  

  
  Could still pander to the holy trinity, set them up as a tank, healer, or dps and you have another piece of the trinity. I'm also a veteran GW player, and while heroes were nice they did tend to make the game less social. Granted, we could take 3 with us into an instance and they did things very well. My problem would be, its going to be aweful crowded if everybody has a companion and has it out at all times.

  
  

  
  The Devs have explicitly stated TOR is not limited to Holy Trinity mechanics.  Companions add story (something WoW doesn't have), and they make   Also, they let you group with the people you want to group, rather than being forced to put up with someone you don't like or having to sit around for a long time.  Much better than WoW's dungeon finder which is community destroying.  This enables social grouping and there will be many incentives to group, including group-only content.  Oh, and big worlds, less crowded, eh?  Size affects gameplay.

  
  

  
  Space is in the picture: we don't know in what form yet, but space will be included, at least in the form of space exploration and maybe/possibly more. Even then, having a large number of planets to wander around in plus space exploration is already more than most other current top MMO's have.

  
  

  
   Again, the size thing above.

  
  

  
  Having space-based gameplay is irrelevent to you?  Hah.  It adds gameplay, we just don't know how yet.  There will be things to do in space, and obviously it involves your ship, possibly combat.

  
  

  
  Full voice over: again, no other current MMO game has that.

  
  

  
  Little to no impact on gameplay at all.

  
  

  
  Affects immersion, immersion affects gameplay.  These things are also a big difference from WoW.

  
  

  
  Storytelling, the 4^th pillar: love it, or hate it, but it's there. And in an extensive way no other MMO's at the moment have. The dialogues will have a lot in common with ME2, decisions matter, each class will have their own storylines (optional + possible to do with groups) and there will be world stories with a large impact.

  
  

  
  I love story, I love ME, ME2, and KOTOR. But story does not make good gameplay. It has though, made me sit through some horrid gameplay.

  
  

  
  I'm sorry, do you like story or hate it?  Dialogue options ARE explicitly gameplay.  So if you like those things, then you like the gameplay.  How does it make you sit through awful gameplay then?  Does "gameplay" only mean "combat" to you?  Combat is a very specific type of gameplay.

  
  

  
  No auto attack in combat

  
  

  
  Interesting, yes, but not a huge gamechanger.

  
  

  
  It affects gameplay.  It's a significant difference when you compare it to how in WoW some classes do a majority of damage with auto-attacks.

  
  

  
  Classes that can specialize into two subsclasses: granted, you see that in some other MMO's like EQ2, but not in WoW.

  
  

  
  This is specialisation, which allows you to make the character play like you want it to. This is a plus, but it doesn't change the underlying mechanics in the least.

  
  

  
  Wow.  So you're just going to dismiss every difference even if significant ones in terms of character advancement?  You aren't even trying to be objective here.

  
  

  
  Cover system in combat: players as well as NPC's will make use of the environment for cover

  
  

  
  This, is the only real gameplay differenc you have brought up. It adds a level of strategy to outflank your opponent(s) in order to kill them. This could be a game changer, we will have to wait and see how it is implimented.

  
  

  
   No, this is one of MANY MANY gameplay differences he has brought up.  But apparently "gameplay" to you means "combat gameplay" and even then you dismiss a lot of combat differences that are significant.

  
  

  
   

  
  
• naraku209 Member Posts: 226

  June 2010

  i think i can recall 'WoW' being a clone of something or other when it was in the same shoes as ToR

  
• KaoRyx Member Posts: 68

  June 2010

  Very good points by both OP and Drachasor. The truth is that the "WoW Clone" argument is thrown at pretty much every game that isn't an entirely different sub-genre of MMOs. If it's a 3rd person, press buttons to perform abilities game, inciters will call it a WoW Clone. I suppose it doesn't help that they announced War Zones which would appear to be very similar to Battlegrounds, but that's a good concept and may very well become a staple of PvP in MMOs in the foreseeable future.
  
  The forums for TOR are filthy with people who are very passionate about TOR. From the devout fanboys to the cautiously optimistic to the pessimists and the Flop-Heralds. It's not likely that we'll ever see an end to these conversations and accusations that spur such hot debates. It may be wise, for those of us who are insightful enough to see the many differences, to ignore the trolls and haters and try to focus on discussions of a logical nature.
  $0.02

  Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.