Originally posted by Nkrmncr If xp is only going to be given for completion of quests and not for creature destruction then why even make the game. PnP D&D has always been about killing creatures to further the goals set forth at the start of the campaign. You may accomplish many subquests on the path of the fulfillment of the overall goal, but those quests involved slaying monsters. A rangers main ability is his/her skill against specific monsters, what good is this ability if it does not help them advance to greater power and even greater enemies? Just my 2cp worth....
I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope.
Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now...
In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no?
unless you don't finish the dungeon, then you get Jacked!
they couldn't possibly be making a lvl based game like this...
Originally posted by Nkrmncr If xp is only going to be given for completion of quests and not for creature destruction then why even make the game. PnP D&D has always been about killing creatures to further the goals set forth at the start of the campaign. You may accomplish many subquests on the path of the fulfillment of the overall goal, but those quests involved slaying monsters. A rangers main ability is his/her skill against specific monsters, what good is this ability if it does not help them advance to greater power and even greater enemies? Just my 2cp worth....
I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope.
Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now...
In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no?
unless you don't finish the dungeon, then you get Jacked!
they couldn't possibly be making a lvl based game like this...
I take it that a lot of people have not even roleplayed DND PnP. By reading the posts it seems there is a lot of mixed answer's. Well The DnD PnP version is not about hacking and slashing yout way up the ranks. If I wanted to do that I would do the EQ GRIND, but this MMORPG is not like any other MMORPG out there. This game is about Roleplay/Questing/Solo Questing to strive to a certain goal with a party or by yourself. People should really read the posts before they give there comment. There will be Monsters outside of dungeons that can be killed by players, but there will be little exp given for those kills.
Heck if you want it to be exactly like PnP I believe they should empliment the rule from the DnD book where a PC can only lvl once a game session. Again like said before this is not a PnP game. Turbine Inc. is working with many solutions to getting this MMORPG as close to the PnP as possible, but yes it is a MMORPG. Who knows what goes through there mind day in and day out trying to get the bugs (like all the MMORPG have) out of the game. I myself am on that website www.ddo.com everyday reading new things from the Dev corner to what other people think should be implimented into the game.
I believe that people should do there reading before judging this Title. Ya I know there will be the ones that will Crucify the game because there is another MMORPG out there that they feel is a hell og a lot better then any MMORPG, but then again thats there opinion , and this is mine.
Originally posted by Alkanphel Originally posted by razblack Originally posted by darquenbladeOriginally posted by NkrmncrIf xp is only going to be given for completion of quests and not for creature destruction then why even make the game. PnP D&D has always been about killing creatures to further the goals set forth at the start of the campaign. You may accomplish many subquests on the path of the fulfillment of the overall goal, but those quests involved slaying monsters. A rangers main ability is his/her skill against specific monsters, what good is this ability if it does not help them advance to greater power and even greater enemies?Just my 2cp worth....I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope. Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now... In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no? unless you don't finish the dungeon, then you get Jacked!
they couldn't possibly be making a lvl based game like this... I take it that a lot of people have not even roleplayed DND PnP. By reading the posts it seems there is a lot of mixed answer's. Well The DnD PnP version is not about hacking and slashing yout way up the ranks. If I wanted to do that I would do the EQ GRIND, but this MMORPG is not like any other MMORPG out there. This game is about Roleplay/Questing/Solo Questing to strive to a certain goal with a party or by yourself. People should really read the posts before they give there comment. There will be Monsters outside of dungeons that can be killed by players, but there will be little exp given for those kills. Heck if you want it to be exactly like PnP I believe they should empliment the rule from the DnD book where a PC can only lvl once a game session. Again like said before this is not a PnP game. Turbine Inc. is working with many solutions to getting this MMORPG as close to the PnP as possible, but yes it is a MMORPG. Who knows what goes through there mind day in and day out trying to get the bugs (like all the MMORPG have) out of the game. I myself am on that website www.ddo.com everyday reading new things from the Dev corner to what other people think should be implimented into the game. I believe that people should do there reading before judging this Title. Ya I know there will be the ones that will Crucify the game because there is another MMORPG out there that they feel is a hell og a lot better then any MMORPG, but then again thats there opinion , and this is mine.
I pretty sure that you should have the intellegence to know that I was quoting the person before. So their is no reason for your incertitude about certain situations that arise in the forum.
Originally posted by Alkanphel Originally posted by darquenblade Was this directed at me? Hmm..I hope not. I pretty sure that you should have the intellegence to know that I was quoting the person before. So their is no reason for your incertitude about certain situations that arise in the forum.
Ahh...but that's what the 'quote' button is there for, my friend. Text can always be misenterpreted.
EDIT: Wait a minute--now I remember why I had objection to your post. It's because you DID quote, and you included my post in with the other poster. See where confusion could arise? Why didn't you just quote him?
Well Sir! It seems that this forum has totally got off topic do to a difference of opinion. It seems that I have offended you in some way I apologize. I myself have just been giving an opinion on certain things that rise in different forums. I have high aspectations for this game. If I have also offended anybody else on the forum again I apologize.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the details of DDO that is why I am trying togive some assistance.
If you wish to discuss this over a hard line I will give you my number. But until then I believe we need to stick to the topic. If you live close enough maybe you can step in to one of our games.
I did not wish to get off the topic at hand. I will make sure never to quote you again...
on the new exciting adventures of no XP for monsters at all?
Originally posted by Alkanphel Well Sir! It seems that this forum has totally got off topic do to a difference of opinion. It seems that I have offended you in some way I apologize. I myself have just been giving an opinion on certain things that rise in different forums. I have high aspectations for this game. If I have also offended anybody else on the forum again I apologize. There seems to be a lot of confusion on the details of DDO that is why I am trying togive some assistance. If you wish to discuss this over a hard line I will give you my number. But until then I believe we need to stick to the topic. If you live close enough maybe you can step in to one of our games. I did not wish to get off the topic at hand. I will make sure never to quote you again...
on the new exciting adventures of no XP for monsters at all?
Sigh...don't mind me, I was just in a bad mood yesterday.
If you read back on my posts, you'll find that I DO agree with you on your DDO opionions.
Funny I played PnP DND for many years moving around a lot so changed the group of people i played with many times.... I never actually met in person anyone who roleplayed the game. everyone i ever played with took the rule books and used them as a basis for creating a world to play in to have a fantasy dungeon crawling adventure using rules we found usefull and igonoring ones we did not like.
I think the majority of people who played pnp rpgs did not actually roleplay when playing the game and looking at the state of todays online roleplaying games and how you can create a char and not find one person roleplaying on a role playing server that there are not many people who would play a game focused on it completely( I tried creating a char on a role playing server once casue i wonted to try out role playing but nobody was doing it..)
I too would love it if turbine can recreate the feel i had when playing PnP DnD but lets face it. That feeling was different for almost all of us so its not likly that that feeling will be recreated.
Perhaps we should be hoping for this game to create a feeling of satisfaction in these online rpgs that we have been unable to find with the other games that are out there instead.
So what if you dont get xp for monsters or very little.
who cares if they have instance dungeons or they dont have them.
As long as they make a game that I enjoy however they do it I will be happy.
The best way to do that is to watch and wait let them make the game without us trying to change it before its even half done and give them a chance to make the game. The only way we will know if this game is good or not is on day one of the release of the finnished product and NOT the beta testing or speculation on how this feature or that feature will play. But actually trying those features out.
of course it still is fun to speculate about the features but just keep the afore mentioned in mind when doing so.
Originally posted by Shazzel Forced grouping is bad. Forced quests is lame, making them the only way to xp.. eww dirty. No xp for mobs does not sound like DnD. No pvp - not the end of the world but ... not good either. Hype 3 outa 10 from me. Im thinking NWN2 might be more on par for what DnD players expect/want.
There isn't forced grouping. The devs stated solo missions would be available too, but you would be much easier with a group. Plus, D&D isn't about soloing.
Getting XP from quests is great! It puts the focus on the quest, the story, not how many monsters you killed.
You get xp for completing encounters in a quest and they are added up and awarded at the end of the quest. Plus, in D&D, defeating a monster doesn't have to mean killing it. It could be traping it, out thinking it, or even just sneaking by it. They must have a solution to the xp that is gained when someone looses connection. I'm sure they will have something in place.
No PvP is great because it doesn't encourage people to level up as fast as they can to be able to compete. It helps take the focus off of the grind to level, and places it more on the social aspects and the lore of the land.
Originally posted by nephillim i really hate instancing, i'm sorry( well, not really) i always thought the whole point of an MMO is that it's MASSIVELY multiplayer. not *a bit* multiplayer, but MASSIVELY. i really worry about people who are willing to pay £10 a month for a game, and then just play on their own or just with a few people. the whole point is that it's a virtual world, where you can meet and become friends (or enemies) with anyone. if i'm in a dungeon, i want to be able to see other players. it's just so artificial and seriously takes away from the roleplaying (which is NOT good for D+D). imagine this: Bob: Hey, Bill, where's Fred. I thought he was meeting us in this dungeon. Bill: Oh, he's here. You just can't see him because he's in his own private version of the dungeon. Bob: Lucky sod. sure, you can invite Fred into your copy of the dungeon, but thats exactly my point. i mean... what's the point of an MMO which takes the focus away from the MM part???? and also, statics quests. they're the bane of my life. Just say you've finished a quest. took you the best part of a week to finish, and you've gotten a cool named item, say Jeremiah's Toffee Hammer. 'Cool!' you think you yourself. then when you get into town you see that 100 other people have done the same quest, and have all got their own freaken copy of Jeremiah's sodding Toffee Hammer. oh. let's all pay £10 a month for a game which mightaswell be single-player, or on a 4-player console. mugs
Mmm let me see- yup i agree with every single word you have written.
If D+D is focusing solely on PvE that just about ok if they can do something new on the quests side. Static quests and instances are deeply sad things that should be banished from mmorpgs.
I'm hoping that D+D has a true quest system - where no two quests are the same. Or am i being hopelessly optimistic??
Originally posted by stav1 Mmm let me see- yup i agree with every single word you have written. If D+D is focusing solely on PvE that just about ok if they can do something new on the quests side. Static quests and instances are deeply sad things that should be banished from mmorpgs. I'm hoping that D+D has a true quest system - where no two quests are the same. Or am i being hopelessly optimistic??
Yes, you are being hopelessly optimistic. There will be 10s of thousands of players... maybe even hundreds of thousands. Who's going to make all these unique quests for all these people? Especially if we're expecting high quality quests, with cinematic events and intelligent NPC's?
Its all about how much you're willing to suspend disbelief. When you go to the movies, you know that you're sitting there staring at a screen... but you can still get immersed into the story right? Same with games and instancing. It doesn't have to be a virtual, super realistic world; just use the imagination and treat it like a game, or a story being told.
Instancing is the best way to evolve beyond the fed-ex/assassin quest. It allows quests in mmorpg's to approach single player game quests in terms of depth and immersion. The cost is that we'll have to suspend disbelief a little.... something i'm perfectly willing to do.
Comments
I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope.
Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now...
In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no?
unless you don't finish the dungeon, then you get Jacked!
they couldn't possibly be making a lvl based game like this...
I think the MAIN reason they have it set up this way is to prevent monster grinding. True, D&D is about going through an exciting adventure, and besting foes in the process (and getting XP for it), but in pnp does a DM really let you spend your time mindlessly hacking away at the same foes over and over again just so you can get XP? Furthermore, does the DM magically make these foes reappear over and over again for the same reason? Nope.
Just because this game is an MMO doesn't mean that it has to abide by the tired conventions all games of this genre have used to date. I think another reason they have made the experience 'adventure oriented' is to slow down level progression a bit. After all, the game only has 20 character levels right now...
In the end, does it really matter where the XP comes from? You're still getting it, no?
unless you don't finish the dungeon, then you get Jacked!
they couldn't possibly be making a lvl based game like this...
I take it that a lot of people have not even roleplayed DND PnP. By reading the posts it seems there is a lot of mixed answer's. Well The DnD PnP version is not about hacking and slashing yout way up the ranks. If I wanted to do that I would do the EQ GRIND, but this MMORPG is not like any other MMORPG out there. This game is about Roleplay/Questing/Solo Questing to strive to a certain goal with a party or by yourself. People should really read the posts before they give there comment. There will be Monsters outside of dungeons that can be killed by players, but there will be little exp given for those kills.
Heck if you want it to be exactly like PnP I believe they should empliment the rule from the DnD book where a PC can only lvl once a game session. Again like said before this is not a PnP game. Turbine Inc. is working with many solutions to getting this MMORPG as close to the PnP as possible, but yes it is a MMORPG. Who knows what goes through there mind day in and day out trying to get the bugs (like all the MMORPG have) out of the game. I myself am on that website www.ddo.com everyday reading new things from the Dev corner to what other people think should be implimented into the game.
I believe that people should do there reading before judging this Title. Ya I know there will be the ones that will Crucify the game because there is another MMORPG out there that they feel is a hell og a lot better then any MMORPG, but then again thats there opinion , and this is mine.
Was this directed at me? Hmm..I hope not.
Was this directed at me? Hmm..I hope not.
I pretty sure that you should have the intellegence to know that I was quoting the person before. So their is no reason for your incertitude about certain situations that arise in the forum.
Ahh...but that's what the 'quote' button is there for, my friend. Text can always be misenterpreted.
EDIT: Wait a minute--now I remember why I had objection to your post. It's because you DID quote, and you included my post in with the other poster. See where confusion could arise? Why didn't you just quote him?
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the details of DDO that is why I am trying togive some assistance.
If you wish to discuss this over a hard line I will give you my number. But until then I believe we need to stick to the topic. If you live close enough maybe you can step in to one of our games.
Sigh...don't mind me, I was just in a bad mood yesterday.
If you read back on my posts, you'll find that I DO agree with you on your DDO opionions.
Didn't mean to come across as such a hothead
Funny I played PnP DND for many years moving around a lot so changed the group of people i played with many times.... I never actually met in person anyone who roleplayed the game. everyone i ever played with took the rule books and used them as a basis for creating a world to play in to have a fantasy dungeon crawling adventure using rules we found usefull and igonoring ones we did not like.
I think the majority of people who played pnp rpgs did not actually roleplay when playing the game and looking at the state of todays online roleplaying games and how you can create a char and not find one person roleplaying on a role playing server that there are not many people who would play a game focused on it completely( I tried creating a char on a role playing server once casue i wonted to try out role playing but nobody was doing it..)
I too would love it if turbine can recreate the feel i had when playing PnP DnD but lets face it. That feeling was different for almost all of us so its not likly that that feeling will be recreated.
Perhaps we should be hoping for this game to create a feeling of satisfaction in these online rpgs that we have been unable to find with the other games that are out there instead.
So what if you dont get xp for monsters or very little.
who cares if they have instance dungeons or they dont have them.
As long as they make a game that I enjoy however they do it I will be happy.
The best way to do that is to watch and wait let them make the game without us trying to change it before its even half done and give them a chance to make the game. The only way we will know if this game is good or not is on day one of the release of the finnished product and NOT the beta testing or speculation on how this feature or that feature will play. But actually trying those features out.
of course it still is fun to speculate about the features but just keep the afore mentioned in mind when doing so.
Forced grouping is bad.
Forced quests is lame, making them the only way to xp.. eww dirty.
No xp for mobs does not sound like DnD.
No pvp - not the end of the world but ... not good either.
Hype 3 outa 10 from me. Im thinking NWN2 might be more on par for what DnD players expect/want.
There isn't forced grouping. The devs stated solo missions would be available too, but you would be much easier with a group. Plus, D&D isn't about soloing.
Getting XP from quests is great! It puts the focus on the quest, the story, not how many monsters you killed.
You get xp for completing encounters in a quest and they are added up and awarded at the end of the quest. Plus, in D&D, defeating a monster doesn't have to mean killing it. It could be traping it, out thinking it, or even just sneaking by it. They must have a solution to the xp that is gained when someone looses connection. I'm sure they will have something in place.
No PvP is great because it doesn't encourage people to level up as fast as they can to be able to compete. It helps take the focus off of the grind to level, and places it more on the social aspects and the lore of the land.
10/10 for me
Mmm let me see- yup i agree with every single word you have written.
If D+D is focusing solely on PvE that just about ok if they can do something new on the quests side. Static quests and instances are deeply sad things that should be banished from mmorpgs.
I'm hoping that D+D has a true quest system - where no two quests are the same. Or am i being hopelessly optimistic??
I think Turbine will do a good job. They have a good track record.
Yes, you are being hopelessly optimistic. There will be 10s of thousands of players... maybe even hundreds of thousands. Who's going to make all these unique quests for all these people? Especially if we're expecting high quality quests, with cinematic events and intelligent NPC's?
Its all about how much you're willing to suspend disbelief. When you go to the movies, you know that you're sitting there staring at a screen... but you can still get immersed into the story right? Same with games and instancing. It doesn't have to be a virtual, super realistic world; just use the imagination and treat it like a game, or a story being told.
Instancing is the best way to evolve beyond the fed-ex/assassin quest. It allows quests in mmorpg's to approach single player game quests in terms of depth and immersion. The cost is that we'll have to suspend disbelief a little.... something i'm perfectly willing to do.