I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
Well sadly you have to look to the pioneering work of Cryptic for the lessons the larger MMO industry is probably taking most note.
You can still release a seven year old game engine and people will buy in.
You can get away with employing a Subscription model AND mt's from day one.
You can launch a bug ridden feature lite game.
Even with point 3 you can launch a paid for expansion in after 3 months (as long as you gag your staff till the last moment.)
You can claim to listen to your player base once you've alienated everyone who might actually ask for something different from what you have already - because simply providing more of the same is clearly enough for those left.
SoE might have a bad image but even they previously might have attempted one or two of these stunts, now its anyones guess....but that said I still like what I am seeing in DCUO and the enthusiasm from the devs (regardless of SOE) leaves me optimistic that we aren't just getting a superficial nod to the concept but something more and that to me is worth paying for....we just need to stop giving free rides to studios that really aren't trying.
Well sadly you have to look to the pioneering work of Cryptic for the lessons the larger MMO industry is probably taking most note.
You can still release a seven year old game engine and people will buy in.
Not sure about this one. I thought Cryptic developed the engine, is it that old? I has been trying to find the info.
You can get away with employing a Subscription model AND mt's from day one.
Being sincere, better than starting subscription based and then pulling that after some time cough... cough... Turbine.
You can launch a bug ridden feature lite game.
Low content yes, in term of bugs wasn't not much different from any other game.
Even with point 3 you can launch a paid for expansion in after 3 months (as long as you gag your staff till the last moment.)
Small expansion, which imho is pretty nice and creative.
You can claim to listen to your player base once you've alienated everyone who might actually ask for something different from what you have already - because simply providing more of the same is clearly enough for those left.
Niche game anybody, wow in spandex not going to happen. They listened the playerbase to some extent but if you wanted a complete overhaul of the game to tailor your taste it is not going to happen.
SoE might have a bad image but even they previously might have attempted one or two of these stunts, now its anyones guess....but that said I still like what I am seeing in DCUO and the enthusiasm from the devs (regardless of SOE) leaves me optimistic that we aren't just getting a superficial nod to the concept but something more and that to me is worth paying for....we just need to stop giving free rides to studios that really aren't trying.
Hopefully, we'll see the truth soon enough. I hope DCUO will be a good game, not completely sure if the gameplay will be of my liking but I will wait for beta to learn it.
Well on the plus side at least I can stop following this one now
Decent looking game, neat ideas, but not something I would pay a main MMO price for. If it were more akin to APB's business model or F2P then heck yeah. But as a standard P2P I will pass.
I wish the game and the devs the best of luck though
your funny. let see 7 bucks for 20hrs or 2 more dollars for a hole moth.
Well first off it seems I was wrong about the $7 for 20 hours, I'm being told it's $5 for 20 hours.
But in any case you seemed to have miss my other posts describing why this worked for me. See this is the type of MMO I want for my side MMO. After the first week or two I really don't expect to be playing more than 2-5 hours a week. With the ability to simply log in and have fun and not have to grind for the fun this becomes even more appealing. Not to mention the fact that those hours don't expire meaning they are there if I decide to take a few weeks away from the game. When I come back I still have that time available.
Sometimes I don't have much time for playing because of real life so I may not even play every week, I have a Daughter and Wife and I like spending time with them. The time I paid for is still there though.
Only needing to spend money on the time I actually use makes it more appealing.
So APB wins.
DCUO - $14.99 a month, I still don't see myself taking this as more than a side MMO meaning only 2-5 hours a week, and the fact that SOE is more than likely going to have an item mall with this one..... I just can't see me getting my monies worth out of this.
youd think they would take a lesson from cryptic and STO lol
SOE is picking both pockets at once and not even the Justice league of America can protect the soon to be poorer DC fan who is unaware of this Level of Money Grabbing Tomfoolery that is soon to be unleased by SOE.
We Must Warn them.
Ah yes, this game is actually being targeted to gamers on consoles and thusly has a very action based feel to its combat. It has the potential to do surprisingly well for SOE eventhough a good amount of the PC playerbase is on alert from SOEs former releases.
For a console gamer who knows very little about MMOs, the amount of customization and online play will be exciting to them. As they aren't paying a monthly fee for the PS3 like they do the 360, I think this game has its best shot on the console. In that same avenue, I don't think console gamers will mind so much with the way some of them pay for dlc for avatars, if SOE is going to try and maximize their profits by "screwing" a playerbase, then its best to do it with one thats unfamiliar with it.
I can deal with p2p even though I'm sure I won't sub long, but I am starting to find myself along those battle lines if they include a cash shop plus the sub fee I don't think I'm subbing at all.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
OH NO !!The evil game companies are making you pay for the game? THEN they have the nerve to add item malls for cosmetic add ons to make even more money? Dear lord! What is the world coming to when we have to help companies make money! I mean they should be doing this out of love for there fans right.. Screw their house payments and grocery bills..
Some of you need to really grow up LOL
Hmm, I guess maturity resides in overlooking the whole point of the thread. Thanks for this eye-opening post.
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by JestorRodo
Originally posted by vickter420
Originally posted by Yuui
p2p?
Pass.
P2p+rmt?
Pass + FAIL stamp.
youd think they would take a lesson from cryptic and STO lol
SOE is picking both pockets at once and not even the Justice league of America can protect the soon to be poorer DC fan who is unaware of this Level of Money Grabbing Tomfoolery that is soon to be unleased by SOE.
We Must Warn them.
Ah yes, this game is actually being targeted to gamers on consoles and thusly has a very action based feel to its combat. It has the potential to do surprisingly well for SOE eventhough a good amount of the PC playerbase is on alert from SOEs former releases.
For a console gamer who knows very little about MMOs, the amount of customization and online play will be exciting to them. As they aren't paying a monthly fee for the PS3 like they do the 360, I think this game has its best shot on the console. In that same avenue, I don't think console gamers will mind so much with the way some of them pay for dlc for avatars, if SOE is going to try and maximize their profits by "screwing" a playerbase, then its best to do it with one thats unfamiliar with it.
I can see the nickle and diming on the console because you are right, people pay a lot for wallpapers, avatars, etc. So to them this is a great opportunity because if they do it for the console gamers it's easier to do to the PC gamers. That's what is upsetting.
youd think they would take a lesson from cryptic and STO lol
SOE is picking both pockets at once and not even the Justice league of America can protect the soon to be poorer DC fan who is unaware of this Level of Money Grabbing Tomfoolery that is soon to be unleased by SOE.
We Must Warn them.
Ah yes, this game is actually being targeted to gamers on consoles and thusly has a very action based feel to its combat. It has the potential to do surprisingly well for SOE eventhough a good amount of the PC playerbase is on alert from SOEs former releases.
For a console gamer who knows very little about MMOs, the amount of customization and online play will be exciting to them. As they aren't paying a monthly fee for the PS3 like they do the 360, I think this game has its best shot on the console. In that same avenue, I don't think console gamers will mind so much with the way some of them pay for dlc for avatars, if SOE is going to try and maximize their profits by "screwing" a playerbase, then its best to do it with one thats unfamiliar with it.
Well... .one saving grace about all this is that console gamers aren't use to paying monthly fee's lol. When they see that $14.99 + item mall on top of the box sale it will hopefully wake them up real fast.
Most of us only have time to warrent paying one 14.99 subscription fee a month . I'm intreagued by this game being a long term reader of DC Comics . Whether that would be enough for it to be my one pay to play game a month remains to be seen . Thus far the two superhero games I've played Champions and City of Heros have both bored me within a few weeks of play . I think SOE are being a bit greedy though and it may well backfire against them . The market trend is now should be heading towards the Hybrid f2play optional sub and item shop model . I have serious doubt whether many will pay a regular sub for this .
It will have to be a really mold breaking speacial game . If not it will be another SOE mmo thats poorly supported and with a struggling community . I wish it well but I think it will most likly be a faliure .
I dont mind paying a monthly fee for a good game with reasonably timed updates. Is there going to be a cash shop in this game as well? If so what will be included? If its items are like those in EQ2 I have no problem with that. I dont want a P2P with play to win items in a cash shop but I I would much rather pay for a game of content than play a grinder for free.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I vastly prefer subscription models to any other pricing variation, though I really dislike the sub + item mall hybrids. If this game were more like an updated and expanded City of Heroes in terms of game design, I'd gladly pay $19.99/month for it to get unlimted access and monthly content updates. The problem is that this is more of a console action game than a traditional MMO; I've never enjoyed action games (which is why I've spent the last 10 years playing MMOs), so this game just isn't for me.
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
They're different groups of people. Some people love subscription models, some hate them. Both groups are vocal, because neither really has an interest in the other model and there are only so many AAA studios making games (most of which have 3-5 year development cycles). When a studio makes a game with pricing model X, everyone who prefers pricing model Y feels left out because it's one less game for them.
There may be six new Asian imports of questionable quality every month, but there are rarely more than three or four top-tier MMOs released in a year; when one, two, or even three of those are built around a pricing model you detest (whichever model that might be), your options are dramatically limited. When demand is greater than supply, you get conflict.
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
They're different groups of people. Some people love subscription models, some hate them. Both groups are vocal, because neither really has an interest in the other model and there are only so many AAA studios making games (most of which have 3-5 year development cycles). When a studio makes a game with pricing model X, everyone who prefers pricing model Y feels left out because it's one less game for them.
There may be six new Asian imports of questionable quality every month, but there are rarely more than three or four top-tier MMOs released in a year; when one, two, or even three of those are built around a pricing model you detest (whichever model that might be), your options are dramatically limited. When demand is greater than supply, you get conflict.
Well I believe your wrong lol. I feel it's people have varied opinions and believe that each product should be judged individually and it's value should be determined based on it's own merits.
I'm someone that prefers the pay to play business model. I simply believe what it looks like this game will offer is suited better for a free to play item mall setup.
It's a Super Hero Action MMO, meaning it will be gimiky and something most would play every once in awhile. Some will spend hours on end customizing costumes.
The game style and type is suited better for a free to play item mall business model.
By making it pay to play they have actually significantly reduced the appeal of the game.
The way I look at is like this....
An MMO with a long lasting appeal, lots of content, something that has depth and can keep you entertained for years and has good quality warrants a monthly fee and paid for expansions.
Something similar to above but lower quality smaller in scale a more indie type of project warrants a lower than average monthly fee with free updates and expansions.
Something gimiky thats fairly shallow that most likely won't play for more than a few hours of week as a side thing warrants a free to play model with an item mall.
Something similar to the above that revolves around competition warrants a reduced monthly fee or free to play where you buy expansions.
And so on....
I've come to accept each business model even though I still don't like some but they have there place and using a business model not appropriate for your game equals a loss in potential revenue.
As long as a business model works for the type of game you are making all is good, but if a business model doesn't fit the game you come off looking greedy and actually lose revenue.
Now DCUO could go with free to play with an item mall that consists of fluff items and power sets (Mainly for flavor nothing more powerful than other power sets in the game) costume sets etc.
DCUO could go with Buy to play where you simply buy expansions and there is no monthly fee.
DCUO could go with a reduced monthly fee and an hourly option similar to APB.
DCUO could have even went with a reduced monthly fee with an item mall but with ONLY fluff items.
I just don't feel the standard $14.99 a month actually fits with the type of game it is. I have no doubts that it will be fun, but it's not something I see people playing constantly after their first month. This is the type of game that becomes a when I have nothing else to do kind of thing. It's also going to drive away a lot of people that would play this type of game for the customization. I mean again I will bring up APB. The social district where all the customizations take place is free and it has more means of expressing ones individuality than any other game I've played so right off the rip they are going to attract a ton of people that DCUO will fail to and it's because of something minor that could have been avoided.
Again I personally prefer the solid monthly fee business model ..... but ONLY if the game warrants it.
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
It depends what you call free to play .I prefer the term hybrid model . You see like DDO lotro will offer a subscription model as well as mircotransactions . Free to Play is different in different games non of which are realistically free in the long term . The turbine games offer what really amounts to an extended free trial . No one is demonising this game but we are questioning the existance of both a sub and a cash shop . It smacks of greed pure and simple . I would agree with an earlier poster a reduced sub (competitively priced)would have been the way to go .
Going down the 14.99 route is pretty much like cutting off your nose to spite you face . Not just for DCUO but pretty much any new MMO . But I can understand the pressures that lead a company to do so .
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
It depends what you call free to play .I prefer the term hybrid model . You see like DDO lotro will offer a subscription model as well as mircotransactions . Free to Play is different in different games non of which are realistically free in the long term . The turbine games offer what really amounts to an extended free trial . No one is demonising this game but we are questioning the existance of both a sub and a cash shop . It smacks of greed pure and simple . I would agree with an earlier poster a reduced sub (competitively priced)would have been the way to go .
Going down the 14.99 route is pretty much like cutting off your nose to spite you face . Not just for DCUO but pretty much any new MMO . But I can understand the pressures that lead a company to do so .
Just to make sure I am not mistaken. In Turbine model the subscribers aka VIP guys while receiving an amount of turbine points monthly they don't have automatic and unlimited access to everything in the turbine cash shop. Therefore, they effectively are running a subscriber model + cash shop, with a f2p option. Moreover, considering that they have more than just fluffy items to sell, it is even worse. So let's be clear that the subscription+cash shop criticism is completely applicable to Turbine model.
This game is going to be one of the largest MMO launchs since WoW.
I am very happy to see they went with the P2P model.
It weeds out all the people that shouldn't be playing the game anyhow.
It will also allow them to caters to a better audience.
Can't wait until the launch of this game.
This game is going to be one of the largest MMO launchs since WoW.
That is very naive statement to say the least. The game concept is a niche concept. Hi-Fantasy, Scifi and Low-Fantasy are the big sellers in MMO's. SuperHero is fairly niche as it is and with CO and CoX out that makes 2 competitors off the rip. Right off the bat it MUST equal to or better at customization and the combat than CO and it MUST have as much or more depth than CoX just to compete with the 2.
Now with that in mind being pay to play is going to keep most non MMO players from playing it, so new blood isn't something you can really count on. Console players are going to think twice about that monthly fee as it's not something they are accustomed to. Among MMO players the Superhero setting is very niche. SOE has a very well know history among MMO gamers as well with the double dipping so it being pay to play people are expecting the item mall along with it which will keep even more from playing. SOE's reputation with how they handle their games will keep even more from playing (Think old SWG players).
So I do not predict it being one of the largest MMO launches since WoW. I believe it will be more inline with CO's launch. It's a better IP and the has a more robust mechanic and system list, so it may do better but not by a great deal better.
I'm glad you are excited but reality is what it is.
Only cosmetic stuff? HALF THE POINT OF A SUPERHERO GAME IS COSMETIC STUFF.
Real SuperHeroes would most likely disagree with you
It's not about cool looks, it's about saving the world.
Looks are... not that important (No Capes!).
And I'm talking about players here. Of course if the players were ACTUALLY superheroes in the real world, looks wouldn't matter THAT much. As a person playing a game though, looks matter a lot more. Superheroes in comics and other venues, more so than most other genres, have flashy and unique looks, and requiring an extra cost to play a superhero as they exist in comics is extremely lame.
I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
I think this is because a lot of people interested in the game don't see it as a first tier MMO, hence they'd rather be able to play it in ADDITION to another MMO and hence a monthly fee is a real hindrance.
DCUO has some pretty hefty competition for MMO players. GW2 (free), FFXIV, SW:TOR, and other big games are coming out next year and they all have a number of interesting features. DCUO doesn't seem to be offering as much as far as I can tell.
I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
I think this is because a lot of people interested in the game don't see it as a first tier MMO, hence they'd rather be able to play it in ADDITION to another MMO and hence a monthly fee is a real hindrance.
DCUO has some pretty hefty competition for MMO players. GW2 (free), FFXIV, SW:TOR, and other big games are coming out next year and they all have a number of interesting features. DCUO doesn't seem to be offering as much as far as I can tell.
So based on that they were right to charge, people openly asking for being freeloaders and then same people accuse the companies of being greedy.
In this forum people cry the loudest when their dear mmo goes f2p because they don't want competition out of its ability to play 10+ hours a day. On the other hand, they cry as loud when the game they want to play casually is not free. I agree with Ozmodan in finding this pretty odd.
I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
I think this is because a lot of people interested in the game don't see it as a first tier MMO, hence they'd rather be able to play it in ADDITION to another MMO and hence a monthly fee is a real hindrance.
DCUO has some pretty hefty competition for MMO players. GW2 (free), FFXIV, SW:TOR, and other big games are coming out next year and they all have a number of interesting features. DCUO doesn't seem to be offering as much as far as I can tell.
So based on that they were right to charge, people openly asking for being freeloaders and then same people accuse the companies of being greedy.
In this forum people cry the loudest when their dear mmo goes f2p because they don't want competition out of its ability to play 10+ hours a day. On the other hand, they cry as loud when the game they want to play casually is not free. I agree with Ozmodan in finding this pretty odd.
Well.... it's like this.... people said the same thing about CO, that it wasn't a pay to play worthy type of MMO. It would have been better off going with a free to play model with an item mall. But... they went with a standard monthly fee and an item mall. The game like DCUO will be more of a side thing people play to kill some time simply because of the style of game. It lacks depth and it's an inherent flaw of the genre. Super Hero games can't be to... RPG'ish and still deliver that super hero experience. Superman doesn't need bullet proof vests, a +5 hammer of smitting, nor does he have any reason to craft.
The Super Hero MMO concept, while fun, really is a tough one to make into an MMO and when you do it really won't have a lot of depth to it. It will turn out to be more of an Massive Multuplayer Online Action Game. And many will like it many won't. Among those that do many will not play it as much as they would a main stay MMO.
CoX actually did a decent job, they managed to put together an MMORPG with super hero's. Though it wouldn't lend itself very well to a more action oriented combat system such as CO and DCUO.
In any case...... we've already had 1 super hero MMO with similar concepts to DCUO flop and mainly because the value wasn't there to warrant $14.99 + an Item mall. If it were free to play with an item mall I can assure you people would have been praising Cryptic, same with STO. Instead Cryptic has turned into a dirty word, it's been compaired to SOE numerous times.
SOE with DCUO actually has a crystal ball that can show them the future of DCUO if it has a $14.99 monthly fee and an item mall if they care to look.
I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
I think this is because a lot of people interested in the game don't see it as a first tier MMO, hence they'd rather be able to play it in ADDITION to another MMO and hence a monthly fee is a real hindrance.
DCUO has some pretty hefty competition for MMO players. GW2 (free), FFXIV, SW:TOR, and other big games are coming out next year and they all have a number of interesting features. DCUO doesn't seem to be offering as much as far as I can tell.
So based on that they were right to charge, people openly asking for being freeloaders and then same people accuse the companies of being greedy.
In this forum people cry the loudest when their dear mmo goes f2p because they don't want competition out of its ability to play 10+ hours a day. On the other hand, they cry as loud when the game they want to play casually is not free. I agree with Ozmodan in finding this pretty odd.
Well.... it's like this.... people said the same thing about CO, that it wasn't a pay to play worthy type of MMO. It would have been better off going with a free to play model with an item mall. But... they went with a standard monthly fee and an item mall. The game like DCUO will be more of a side thing people play to kill some time simply because of the style of game. It lacks depth and it's an inherent flaw of the genre. Super Hero games can't be to... RPG'ish and still deliver that super hero experience. Superman doesn't need bullet proof vests, a +5 hammer of smitting, nor does he have any reason to craft.
The Super Hero MMO concept, while fun, really is a tough one to make into an MMO and when you do it really won't have a lot of depth to it. It will turn out to be more of an Massive Multuplayer Online Action Game. And many will like it many won't. Among those that do many will not play it as much as they would a main stay MMO.
CoX actually did a decent job, they managed to put together an MMORPG with super hero's. Though it wouldn't lend itself very well to a more action oriented combat system such as CO and DCUO.
In any case...... we've already had 1 super hero MMO with similar concepts to DCUO flop and mainly because the value wasn't there to warrant $14.99 + an Item mall. If it were free to play with an item mall I can assure you people would have been praising Cryptic, same with STO. Instead Cryptic has turned into a dirty word, it's been compaired to SOE numerous times.
SOE with DCUO actually has a crystal ball that can show them the future of DCUO if it has a $14.99 monthly fee and an item mall if they care to look.
Of course if you give something for free, you usually listen nice things about you (this is not necessarily true, especially behind the back). That is the reason that f2p games don't get bashed too often out of their own forums. I am not seeing anything wrong with deciding not to play DCUO but asking to be f2p with the whole purpose of playing free as a secondary mmo with no intention of putting any money on it, is what I find a little unethical.
About Cryptic hate, is mainly derived from STO dissapointment that affected CO since many people subscribed CO to just get a STO early beta access so they were playing a game they were not much interested expecting a kind of wow in spandex that never happened. Superhero games are not for anybody, it is a niche genre, however that does not deny its value, maybe they wont be content and feature intensive as mainstream fantasy games but still there are a community that appreciate them. I can tell that since I played CoH for many years and while limited compared to most mmos. It was a great experience and enjoyment because of the community. CO and CoH can be competitors but they have similar spirit the same one I can see in DCUO, all three with their differences in gameplay that will attract different crowd to each of them(in some cases there will be people playing more than one).
About Cryptic hate, is mainly derived from STO dissapointment that affected CO since many people subscribed CO to just get a STO early beta access so they were playing a game they were not much interested expecting a kind of wow in spandex that never happened. Superhero games are not for anybody, it is a niche genre, however that does not deny its value, maybe they wont be content and feature intensive as mainstream fantasy games but still there are a community that appreciate them. I can tell that since I played CoH for many years and while limited compared to most mmos. It was a great experience and enjoyment because of the community. CO and CoH can be competitors but they have similar spirit the same one I can see in DCUO, all three with their differences in gameplay that will attract different crowd to each of them(in some cases there will be people playing more than one).
Cryptic hate actually began as a direct result of Champion Online, the criticisms aimed at Cryptic over that game were merely confirmed when STO was released with a similar level of 'commitment' evident...why?
Given previous experience and respect Cryptic had enjoyed people looked to it so demonstrate some sense of progress, some evolution and imagination in their second bite of the same cherry, Cryptic had a lot of ardent supporters and were cut a lot of slack in forums compared to other mmo companies... but when Champions was release it revelled in the most tired and dated of MMO staples, it brought nothing new to the table, with no trace of the conviction to theme that made CoH more than the sum of its parts, it was considered a rushed clumsy and superficial mmo that wasn't given a proper investment of time or imagination indeed it seemed all the 'progress' was instead invested in its methods for plundering the pocket of the players.....and amid those criticisms STO was released with pretty much the raft of concerns, similarly superficial in its lip serivce to its theme and a similarly generic game engine all rounded with a comprehansive set of measures to pick the pocket of everyone player as quickly and comprehensively as possible.
Cryptic was previously seen in a positive light compared to the likes of NCsoft, Blizzard and SoE but ironically it ended up delivering a couple of games less worthy and more avaricious than any of its 'nasty' contemporaries. This is a legacy others will look at and take forward, the precedents have been set and the only real positive we have to hope is that DCUO's enthusiasm for their product is streets ahead of anything CO had during its devlopment.
So why is the PS3 version $10 more? I know that Sony charges $10 per game for the PS3 but for one thing this is being made by Sony in the first place plus it has a Sub charge of $14.99.
Comments
I find it very odd, every time a f2p discussion pops up the forum lights up with people saying how much they dislike the model, yet in this thread all I see is people complaining about this game being subscription.
We don't know how much content they will have or anything about character progression or much else about the game. Who knows what this game will be like. Personally, as long as Smedley is in charge at SOE, I don't think they can produce a decent title, but they could surprise. Just have to wait and see.
Well sadly you have to look to the pioneering work of Cryptic for the lessons the larger MMO industry is probably taking most note.
You can still release a seven year old game engine and people will buy in.
You can get away with employing a Subscription model AND mt's from day one.
You can launch a bug ridden feature lite game.
Even with point 3 you can launch a paid for expansion in after 3 months (as long as you gag your staff till the last moment.)
You can claim to listen to your player base once you've alienated everyone who might actually ask for something different from what you have already - because simply providing more of the same is clearly enough for those left.
SoE might have a bad image but even they previously might have attempted one or two of these stunts, now its anyones guess....but that said I still like what I am seeing in DCUO and the enthusiasm from the devs (regardless of SOE) leaves me optimistic that we aren't just getting a superficial nod to the concept but something more and that to me is worth paying for....we just need to stop giving free rides to studios that really aren't trying.
Well first off it seems I was wrong about the $7 for 20 hours, I'm being told it's $5 for 20 hours.
But in any case you seemed to have miss my other posts describing why this worked for me. See this is the type of MMO I want for my side MMO. After the first week or two I really don't expect to be playing more than 2-5 hours a week. With the ability to simply log in and have fun and not have to grind for the fun this becomes even more appealing. Not to mention the fact that those hours don't expire meaning they are there if I decide to take a few weeks away from the game. When I come back I still have that time available.
Sometimes I don't have much time for playing because of real life so I may not even play every week, I have a Daughter and Wife and I like spending time with them. The time I paid for is still there though.
Only needing to spend money on the time I actually use makes it more appealing.
So APB wins.
DCUO - $14.99 a month, I still don't see myself taking this as more than a side MMO meaning only 2-5 hours a week, and the fact that SOE is more than likely going to have an item mall with this one..... I just can't see me getting my monies worth out of this.
Ah yes, this game is actually being targeted to gamers on consoles and thusly has a very action based feel to its combat. It has the potential to do surprisingly well for SOE eventhough a good amount of the PC playerbase is on alert from SOEs former releases.
For a console gamer who knows very little about MMOs, the amount of customization and online play will be exciting to them. As they aren't paying a monthly fee for the PS3 like they do the 360, I think this game has its best shot on the console. In that same avenue, I don't think console gamers will mind so much with the way some of them pay for dlc for avatars, if SOE is going to try and maximize their profits by "screwing" a playerbase, then its best to do it with one thats unfamiliar with it.
I can deal with p2p even though I'm sure I won't sub long, but I am starting to find myself along those battle lines if they include a cash shop plus the sub fee I don't think I'm subbing at all.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Hmm, I guess maturity resides in overlooking the whole point of the thread. Thanks for this eye-opening post.
I can see the nickle and diming on the console because you are right, people pay a lot for wallpapers, avatars, etc. So to them this is a great opportunity because if they do it for the console gamers it's easier to do to the PC gamers. That's what is upsetting.
Well... .one saving grace about all this is that console gamers aren't use to paying monthly fee's lol. When they see that $14.99 + item mall on top of the box sale it will hopefully wake them up real fast.
Most of us only have time to warrent paying one 14.99 subscription fee a month . I'm intreagued by this game being a long term reader of DC Comics . Whether that would be enough for it to be my one pay to play game a month remains to be seen . Thus far the two superhero games I've played Champions and City of Heros have both bored me within a few weeks of play . I think SOE are being a bit greedy though and it may well backfire against them . The market trend is now should be heading towards the Hybrid f2play optional sub and item shop model . I have serious doubt whether many will pay a regular sub for this .
It will have to be a really mold breaking speacial game . If not it will be another SOE mmo thats poorly supported and with a struggling community . I wish it well but I think it will most likly be a faliure .
I dont mind paying a monthly fee for a good game with reasonably timed updates. Is there going to be a cash shop in this game as well? If so what will be included? If its items are like those in EQ2 I have no problem with that. I dont want a P2P with play to win items in a cash shop but I I would much rather pay for a game of content than play a grinder for free.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I vastly prefer subscription models to any other pricing variation, though I really dislike the sub + item mall hybrids. If this game were more like an updated and expanded City of Heroes in terms of game design, I'd gladly pay $19.99/month for it to get unlimted access and monthly content updates. The problem is that this is more of a console action game than a traditional MMO; I've never enjoyed action games (which is why I've spent the last 10 years playing MMOs), so this game just isn't for me.
Has anyone pointed out the irony that when LOTR went F2P from Subscription people cried and bitched and threw tantrums; decreeing that a F2P game just demands an item mall to sustain it. They claim that a subscription game caters to end-game rather then trying to bring in new players but constantly beefing up the new player incentives. Yet now that a new MMO says subscription they demonize it?
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
They're different groups of people. Some people love subscription models, some hate them. Both groups are vocal, because neither really has an interest in the other model and there are only so many AAA studios making games (most of which have 3-5 year development cycles). When a studio makes a game with pricing model X, everyone who prefers pricing model Y feels left out because it's one less game for them.
There may be six new Asian imports of questionable quality every month, but there are rarely more than three or four top-tier MMOs released in a year; when one, two, or even three of those are built around a pricing model you detest (whichever model that might be), your options are dramatically limited. When demand is greater than supply, you get conflict.
Well I believe your wrong lol. I feel it's people have varied opinions and believe that each product should be judged individually and it's value should be determined based on it's own merits.
I'm someone that prefers the pay to play business model. I simply believe what it looks like this game will offer is suited better for a free to play item mall setup.
It's a Super Hero Action MMO, meaning it will be gimiky and something most would play every once in awhile. Some will spend hours on end customizing costumes.
The game style and type is suited better for a free to play item mall business model.
By making it pay to play they have actually significantly reduced the appeal of the game.
The way I look at is like this....
An MMO with a long lasting appeal, lots of content, something that has depth and can keep you entertained for years and has good quality warrants a monthly fee and paid for expansions.
Something similar to above but lower quality smaller in scale a more indie type of project warrants a lower than average monthly fee with free updates and expansions.
Something gimiky thats fairly shallow that most likely won't play for more than a few hours of week as a side thing warrants a free to play model with an item mall.
Something similar to the above that revolves around competition warrants a reduced monthly fee or free to play where you buy expansions.
And so on....
I've come to accept each business model even though I still don't like some but they have there place and using a business model not appropriate for your game equals a loss in potential revenue.
As long as a business model works for the type of game you are making all is good, but if a business model doesn't fit the game you come off looking greedy and actually lose revenue.
Now DCUO could go with free to play with an item mall that consists of fluff items and power sets (Mainly for flavor nothing more powerful than other power sets in the game) costume sets etc.
DCUO could go with Buy to play where you simply buy expansions and there is no monthly fee.
DCUO could go with a reduced monthly fee and an hourly option similar to APB.
DCUO could have even went with a reduced monthly fee with an item mall but with ONLY fluff items.
I just don't feel the standard $14.99 a month actually fits with the type of game it is. I have no doubts that it will be fun, but it's not something I see people playing constantly after their first month. This is the type of game that becomes a when I have nothing else to do kind of thing. It's also going to drive away a lot of people that would play this type of game for the customization. I mean again I will bring up APB. The social district where all the customizations take place is free and it has more means of expressing ones individuality than any other game I've played so right off the rip they are going to attract a ton of people that DCUO will fail to and it's because of something minor that could have been avoided.
Again I personally prefer the solid monthly fee business model ..... but ONLY if the game warrants it.
It depends what you call free to play .I prefer the term hybrid model . You see like DDO lotro will offer a subscription model as well as mircotransactions . Free to Play is different in different games non of which are realistically free in the long term . The turbine games offer what really amounts to an extended free trial . No one is demonising this game but we are questioning the existance of both a sub and a cash shop . It smacks of greed pure and simple . I would agree with an earlier poster a reduced sub (competitively priced)would have been the way to go .
Going down the 14.99 route is pretty much like cutting off your nose to spite you face . Not just for DCUO but pretty much any new MMO . But I can understand the pressures that lead a company to do so .
Just to make sure I am not mistaken. In Turbine model the subscribers aka VIP guys while receiving an amount of turbine points monthly they don't have automatic and unlimited access to everything in the turbine cash shop. Therefore, they effectively are running a subscriber model + cash shop, with a f2p option. Moreover, considering that they have more than just fluffy items to sell, it is even worse. So let's be clear that the subscription+cash shop criticism is completely applicable to Turbine model.
This game is going to be one of the largest MMO launchs since WoW.
I am very happy to see they went with the P2P model.
It weeds out all the people that shouldn't be playing the game anyhow.
It will also allow them to caters to a better audience.
Can't wait until the launch of this game.
This game is going to be one of the largest MMO launchs since WoW.
That is very naive statement to say the least. The game concept is a niche concept. Hi-Fantasy, Scifi and Low-Fantasy are the big sellers in MMO's. SuperHero is fairly niche as it is and with CO and CoX out that makes 2 competitors off the rip. Right off the bat it MUST equal to or better at customization and the combat than CO and it MUST have as much or more depth than CoX just to compete with the 2.
Now with that in mind being pay to play is going to keep most non MMO players from playing it, so new blood isn't something you can really count on. Console players are going to think twice about that monthly fee as it's not something they are accustomed to. Among MMO players the Superhero setting is very niche. SOE has a very well know history among MMO gamers as well with the double dipping so it being pay to play people are expecting the item mall along with it which will keep even more from playing. SOE's reputation with how they handle their games will keep even more from playing (Think old SWG players).
So I do not predict it being one of the largest MMO launches since WoW. I believe it will be more inline with CO's launch. It's a better IP and the has a more robust mechanic and system list, so it may do better but not by a great deal better.
I'm glad you are excited but reality is what it is.
And I'm talking about players here. Of course if the players were ACTUALLY superheroes in the real world, looks wouldn't matter THAT much. As a person playing a game though, looks matter a lot more. Superheroes in comics and other venues, more so than most other genres, have flashy and unique looks, and requiring an extra cost to play a superhero as they exist in comics is extremely lame.
I think this is because a lot of people interested in the game don't see it as a first tier MMO, hence they'd rather be able to play it in ADDITION to another MMO and hence a monthly fee is a real hindrance.
DCUO has some pretty hefty competition for MMO players. GW2 (free), FFXIV, SW:TOR, and other big games are coming out next year and they all have a number of interesting features. DCUO doesn't seem to be offering as much as far as I can tell.
So based on that they were right to charge, people openly asking for being freeloaders and then same people accuse the companies of being greedy.
In this forum people cry the loudest when their dear mmo goes f2p because they don't want competition out of its ability to play 10+ hours a day. On the other hand, they cry as loud when the game they want to play casually is not free. I agree with Ozmodan in finding this pretty odd.
Well.... it's like this.... people said the same thing about CO, that it wasn't a pay to play worthy type of MMO. It would have been better off going with a free to play model with an item mall. But... they went with a standard monthly fee and an item mall. The game like DCUO will be more of a side thing people play to kill some time simply because of the style of game. It lacks depth and it's an inherent flaw of the genre. Super Hero games can't be to... RPG'ish and still deliver that super hero experience. Superman doesn't need bullet proof vests, a +5 hammer of smitting, nor does he have any reason to craft.
The Super Hero MMO concept, while fun, really is a tough one to make into an MMO and when you do it really won't have a lot of depth to it. It will turn out to be more of an Massive Multuplayer Online Action Game. And many will like it many won't. Among those that do many will not play it as much as they would a main stay MMO.
CoX actually did a decent job, they managed to put together an MMORPG with super hero's. Though it wouldn't lend itself very well to a more action oriented combat system such as CO and DCUO.
In any case...... we've already had 1 super hero MMO with similar concepts to DCUO flop and mainly because the value wasn't there to warrant $14.99 + an Item mall. If it were free to play with an item mall I can assure you people would have been praising Cryptic, same with STO. Instead Cryptic has turned into a dirty word, it's been compaired to SOE numerous times.
SOE with DCUO actually has a crystal ball that can show them the future of DCUO if it has a $14.99 monthly fee and an item mall if they care to look.
Of course if you give something for free, you usually listen nice things about you (this is not necessarily true, especially behind the back). That is the reason that f2p games don't get bashed too often out of their own forums. I am not seeing anything wrong with deciding not to play DCUO but asking to be f2p with the whole purpose of playing free as a secondary mmo with no intention of putting any money on it, is what I find a little unethical.
About Cryptic hate, is mainly derived from STO dissapointment that affected CO since many people subscribed CO to just get a STO early beta access so they were playing a game they were not much interested expecting a kind of wow in spandex that never happened. Superhero games are not for anybody, it is a niche genre, however that does not deny its value, maybe they wont be content and feature intensive as mainstream fantasy games but still there are a community that appreciate them. I can tell that since I played CoH for many years and while limited compared to most mmos. It was a great experience and enjoyment because of the community. CO and CoH can be competitors but they have similar spirit the same one I can see in DCUO, all three with their differences in gameplay that will attract different crowd to each of them(in some cases there will be people playing more than one).
Cryptic hate actually began as a direct result of Champion Online, the criticisms aimed at Cryptic over that game were merely confirmed when STO was released with a similar level of 'commitment' evident...why?
Given previous experience and respect Cryptic had enjoyed people looked to it so demonstrate some sense of progress, some evolution and imagination in their second bite of the same cherry, Cryptic had a lot of ardent supporters and were cut a lot of slack in forums compared to other mmo companies... but when Champions was release it revelled in the most tired and dated of MMO staples, it brought nothing new to the table, with no trace of the conviction to theme that made CoH more than the sum of its parts, it was considered a rushed clumsy and superficial mmo that wasn't given a proper investment of time or imagination indeed it seemed all the 'progress' was instead invested in its methods for plundering the pocket of the players.....and amid those criticisms STO was released with pretty much the raft of concerns, similarly superficial in its lip serivce to its theme and a similarly generic game engine all rounded with a comprehansive set of measures to pick the pocket of everyone player as quickly and comprehensively as possible.
Cryptic was previously seen in a positive light compared to the likes of NCsoft, Blizzard and SoE but ironically it ended up delivering a couple of games less worthy and more avaricious than any of its 'nasty' contemporaries. This is a legacy others will look at and take forward, the precedents have been set and the only real positive we have to hope is that DCUO's enthusiasm for their product is streets ahead of anything CO had during its devlopment.
So why is the PS3 version $10 more? I know that Sony charges $10 per game for the PS3 but for one thing this is being made by Sony in the first place plus it has a Sub charge of $14.99.
Well it pays, Sony that is, to own a PS3!?