Not to burst anyone's bubble, but do you really believe pre-NGE SWG is as good as you remember it? Lets for a moment say this did happen...Would it really be as good as everyone remembers it or do our memories betray us?
As much as I would love to play a pre-cu server, at this point, SOE would never invest the time and resources to make it happen.
The time for this was a few years ago.
Now, SOE is focusing on the next wave of games they are putting out, none of which will likely be that successful for long, if history is any guide. In an industry that is all about the next product coming out, and not the last one, SOE's priorities are clearly not on any of their existing station pass games, beyond the next scam to try to squeeze out the last few $$$ from diminishing playerbases.
SWG's time is long past.
I gotta agree with you on this, SOE are not likely to want to "branch out" into uncharted waters, regardless of the unique opportunities that they have to test them before jumping in feet first like the rest of the MMO industry would have to.
Shame really. Perhaps it's true what I mentioned earlier: irrespective of how some feel on these forums, the typical sandbox design is inherently flawed and therefore not worth investment. Regardless of the unique elements it brings to the MMO industry. Odd really, cos you'd think themepark MMO's would at least attempt to envelope SOME of the better sandbox elements. I guess it boils down to a case of not enough resources.
Let's hope Bioware prove that its worth the effort to refine and develop the standard MMO design of themepark MMOs further than before.
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but do you really believe pre-NGE SWG is as good as you remember it? Lets for a moment say this did happen...Would it really be as good as everyone remembers it or do our memories betray us?
For me personally, it was never THAT good for my own personal liking. It had good points, sure. But such typical sandbox games felt under-developed to me. I guess that's why I enjoy themepark MMO's more.
And after I made that last statement, I'm now waiting for the obvious question that no doubt someone is dying to ask because they failed to fully comprehend the OP....... hehehe ............
If you were asking about some fictitous comany doing this, I would say "sure, could be possible, interesting, and worth taking a look at". Being SOE, I don't see the incentive. I know what's been discussed in this thread, but just based on history, I can't see SOE trying this idea out. I mean, how many years did it take them to finally admit that the NGE deployment wasn't such a good idea (though not sure they admited teh NGE wasn't a good idea :P). What have they done since then? Added item shops and trading card games to a number of their titles, released Free Realms and started development on another SW game that, by all accounts, seems like are reskin of Free Realms. Everything they do seems to move in the opposite direction of an F2P Pre-CU (or even Pre-NGE) game. I can't imagine they even have the desire to enter the adult sandbox market any more.
Perhaps though, they've already done their test with Vanguard. While I haven't personally played that game, I've read many comments that seem to paint it as a hybrid. If those are at all accurate, then the only thing missing is the well known IP (and yes, I know they are different settings).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I mostly agree with the OP...Though there would HAVE to be some way for SOE to make cash off it...So a cash shop would almost certainly have to be implemented...But I'd play...ESPECIALLY if it was the CU...I'd be all over that, and I know about 10-12 Guildies who would join Me immediately...
I know the whole story about the Old Code being gone, and the Code written over Code and all that...But from My understanding it's Lucas Arts that has stood in the way of any Pre NGE Servers going up...Basically they understand that the NGE was a massive bomb, but they never thought of the Pre NGE as any sort of success either...So supposedly the feeling is, at least with LA, that a Pre NGE Server only further soils the SW license...It's kind of a weird way to see it...But if LA says no then it's no plain and simple...
@mklinic and Kyngbills: You're both probably right. SOE seems to be focused more on the "free realms" type games rather than anything else. And as for LA, well who knows what's going on there.
Of course, theres a chance that in the end such a test would prove beyond all doubt that the pre-NGE model is not worth persueing any further. But that's the whole point of running such a test.
A certain percentage of people on these forums believe that the pre-NGE design COULD work in a new MMO. Personally I have my doubts. But nevertheless, considering that SWG pre-NGE has been previously designed and functions, if SOE does still hold onto a copy of the code, then it's worth using it as a test rather than designing a similar model from scratch and wasting 5 years worth of development just to find that its not financially viable.
I'm not saying that SOE ARE designing a new sandbox game, I'm just suggesting that SOE are in a unique position and by offering the service on a temporary basis to the public, they can find out for themselves just how, in reality, popular it would be.
Side note: What would be intriguing is how the population level in a "classic SWG" server would compare to the sub levels in the NGE game now. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Now, doubt about the original popularity of pre-NGE SWG brings up a new question:
If people DO think that the pre-NGE model design for a sandbox game is NOT worthy of resurrection, does that imply that the typical sandbox design in general is not worthy of development in ANY mmo?
Because after all, the pre-SWG design model encompassed a LOT of what sandbox fans yearn for, does it not? Which in turn implies that the sandbox design, is in reality flawed, beyond being financially viable. And therefore, in theory, any MMO company who attempts to develop a sandbox MMO is developing a product that is doomed to failure from the start.
Btw, I never implied anything would happen to the NGE that is currently running. SOE have a server farm, that will no doubt house server clusters which are no longer in use due to previous server merges of their games. This means that setting up and maintenance costs may, in theory, be kept to a minimum for the duration of the test. Yes, there will be a cost involved, but sometimes its worth it.
See I still don't think so. There is a big difference between model and implementation. Pre NGE Star Wars received X subs. There is no indication that years latter it would do any better. X subs was not worth what Sony expected from a Star Wars IP. They demand change. Change kills sub base.
That does not mean that sandbox as a concept was a failure is wrong, it's just that their flavor of it didn't do well. Could there be sandbox designs that fare well? Sure, if the gameplay and reasons for playing are there, then there is no reason that one could not do well.
By definition running a second version of SWG, for free, would have a very real chance of negatively impacting the subs of the NGE. So you can't release it without affecting the other's sub base. Sure, it might be nice to say, "the good old days were not all the good... just old." However, from Sony's perspective, they know this already and unless they are going to invest in changes or other new material there is no reason to expect to have any more subs than they did last time when they deemed it not good enough.
Now, if you are going to say that they should use the engine as a platform to develop a new sandbox experience with new content, then I would agree that you might have some kind of valid test.
As much as a Pre-NGE server would be nice, it will never happen. That would mean that Smedley would have to admit that the NGE wasn't a mistake and that people actually enjoyed the old SWG, which we all know wasn't the case because Smedley thinks noone knows what they want unless Sony tells them.
Now, if you are going to say that they should use the engine as a platform to develop a new sandbox experience with new content, then I would agree that you might have some kind of valid test.
Aha! That is exactly the point!
The launch of a temporary "Classic server" to serve as a testbed, a prototype as it were, to examine the validity of a new sandbox model that would possibly incorporate some of the elements found in SWG Pre-NGE.
The SWG Pre-NGE engine is pretty old by technology standards and thus it probably wouldn't be used as a foundation for a new sandbox MMO. Nevertheless, such a "classic" server could be used purely as a prototype platform to gauge public reaction to the sandbox model. And, IF it proved worthy, it could then used to develop further elements to test new features as well. Development of new features would never be at the rate found in "Live" MMO's, but nevertheless, certain features could still be tested on it in order to provide justification for development of a new MMO.
In short, think of this hyperthetical "Classic SWG" server as a temporary Test Server for an MMO that hasn't been developed yet. Where testing is being done on a larger scale than typical intial testing that is done "in house".
It's just unfortunate that the product is owned by a company who probably isn't interested in developing sandbox designs anymore. The irony is, that the very product that caused them so much grief could actually be used to redeem them.
If the "evolution" of the MMO industry is the microtransaction pay to win scam format, then it will "evolve" me right out of the industry, because I will NOT support it.
Evolution of the MMO industry SHOULD BE new generation breakthrough persistent worlds. Not a new scam to suck a bit more cash out of us with the same garbage games.
If the "evolution" of the MMO industry is the microtransaction pay to win scam format, then it will "evolve" me right out of the industry, because I will NOT support it.
Evolution of the MMO industry SHOULD BE new generation breakthrough persistent worlds. Not a new scam to suck a bit more cash out of us with the same garbage games.
Who said ANYTHING about microtransactions?? Don't you think you're presuming something?
F2P = free to play. Nothing to do with microtransactions or Cash Shops. Such things are often incidental to an F2P model and are implemented to supplement the loss of subscriptions for an MMO that is envisaged to last a long time.
Please see the previous posts in this thread on the matter.
Remember that this proposal is about a temporary test server which is used to develop a new MMO sandbox model incorporating some elements that were found in SWG Pre-CU.
Ignore the concept of F2P models in MMO's because that doesn't apply here. You don't demand a subscription or microtransactions on a test server.
Since we're being hypothetical then sure, in this fantasy it sounds like a great idea if it makes you happy. Arguing the validity of your proposal to other gamers isn't going to accomplish anything. If you think it'd be a great idea, awesome. But I think everyone else is looking at it more pragmatically taking into account the social climate for mmo's and fiscal responsibilities and the realisms of launching and supporting any mmo.
It's kind of like saying "hey wouldn't it be awesome if we could make horses fly with gene splicing!" and then having people point out all the flaws in that. You can just cover your ears and enjoy the fantasy but trying to convince them its possible is a futile act.
Besides, even if you did manage to sway them and convince them this dream of yours is practical, it wouldn't make SOE do anything. SOE is a company like any other, they're looking twards the future, focused on whats new and trendy to get the biggest payback for their invested efforts and sustaining costs. Retro gaming for small niche markets isn't something they'll focus their efforts on.
Now, if you are going to say that they should use the engine as a platform to develop a new sandbox experience with new content, then I would agree that you might have some kind of valid test.
Aha! That is exactly the point!
The launch of a temporary "Classic server" to serve as a testbed, a prototype as it were, to examine the validity of a new sandbox model that would possibly incorporate some of the elements found in SWG Pre-NGE.
The SWG Pre-NGE engine is pretty old by technology standards and thus it probably wouldn't be used as a foundation for a new sandbox MMO. Nevertheless, such a "classic" server could be used purely as a prototype platform to gauge public reaction to the sandbox model. And, IF it proved worthy, it could then used to develop further elements to test new features as well. Development of new features would never be at the rate found in "Live" MMO's, but nevertheless, certain features could still be tested on it in order to provide justification for development of a new MMO.
In short, think of this hyperthetical "Classic SWG" server as a temporary Test Server for an MMO that hasn't been developed yet. Where testing is being done on a larger scale than typical intial testing that is done "in house".
It's just unfortunate that the product is owned by a company who probably isn't interested in developing sandbox designs anymore. The irony is, that the very product that caused them so much grief could actually be used to redeem them.
The idea of using the engine is interesting, but then why tie it to something that already has a lot of baggage? If you were going to test a new sandbox experience, or a hybrid model, why not spend a couple months doing a reskin and get away from the SWG stigma? Don't get me wrong, I would love to play Pre-CU again, but for the stated goal of testing, I don't think the SWG we knew is really the best way to get useful testing done.
Changing the cosmetics and IP would still allow for testing the engine while not directly competing with the NGE version of the game. We can say whatever we want about its success or failure, but it's still running, so apparently, between station pass, TCG, server transfers, etc, it must be justifying its costs and therefore, not something SOE would really want to compete with (in my opinion).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The idea of using the engine is interesting, but then why tie it to something that already has a lot of baggage? If you were going to test a new sandbox experience, or a hybrid model, why not spend a couple months doing a reskin and get away from the SWG stigma? Don't get me wrong, I would love to play Pre-CU again, but for the stated goal of testing, I don't think the SWG we knew is really the best way to get useful testing done.
Changing the cosmetics and IP would still allow for testing the engine while not directly competing with the NGE version of the game. We can say whatever we want about its success or failure, but it's still running, so apparently, between station pass, TCG, server transfers, etc, it must be justifying its costs and therefore, not something SOE would really want to compete with (in my opinion).
I suppose its possible that a reskin would be beneficial to the process and thus do away with some of the "baggage". However part of the advantage of this is to minimise actual costs involved in setting it up and launching it (if only for a few months).
But now that you mention it, perhaps there is an additional benefit to reskinning it into something resembling the new MMO (e.g. low rez textures, reusing as many of the old models as possible). I realise that we're getting towards the realms of using a "commercial off-the-shelf" engine, but if the old engine is used then theres no actual cost of purchasing one, which can be substantial and not practical for these purposes. Reskinning may prove beneficial even though it incurrs extra cost, and such a cost would still be incurred had a new engine been purchased for the same task. Of course, in this hyperthetical example, just how much cost would be incurred from doing such a "reskin" is unknown.
Would you have to redo the landmasses and all models? Or could you get away with just removing all textual references to SWG?
Btw, I realise that we are discussing an engine that isn't based on SWGs IP anymore, but I didn't create this thread in the SWG forums. It was moved here
Am I the only one who remembers how bad and unbalanced the game was pre-NGE. Why would you want to go back to that eludes me. Unless you want to play the last FOTM combo while wearing composite armor with everyone else.
Am I the only one who remembers how bad and unbalanced the game was pre-NGE. Why would you want to go back to that eludes me. Unless you want to play the last FOTM combo while wearing composite armor with everyone else.
Please read the whole thread as you seem to be missing the point. The fact is that this thread ISN'T about reviving a "Classic SWG" server JUST so a number of people can play on it to relive old times.
We are discussing the concept of re-using the SWG Pre-NGE model PURELY for the purposes of testing a new sandbox design that reuses some of the concepts that were found in SWG Pre-NGE. Whether or not this "testbed" uses the Starwars Galaxies IP is not a requirement. Its the concepts that were used in the game and the engine itself is that what matters. Incidentally, because this thread is dealing with a sandbox / hybrid model, the NGE version of the engine is not necessarily suitable for the task.
So many things about this shoot way past the limits of reality:
1. You talk about implementing "off the shelf" as a limited run test as some form of expense savings. What are they testing? As they already have data from SWG to show that in a less competitive market it underperformed, I don't see why they would want to test anything like this on the open market.
2. If it is the implementation of new ideas on an old technology, what is the value of such a test? When you think about costs, you need to factor in the cost of training a developer team on the code itself. This would be monumentally expensive, and in all likelyhood would negate a large part of the savings vs. building a new engine for the sandbox. If you are going to spend that kind of time and energy just learning the engine, you might as well build a new one that takes advantage of new technology/architecture and thus see some actual benifit. Either way, it seems the costs significantly outweigh the benefits of any learnings they might get.
3. You started this thread discussing the use of the free to play business model. Micro-transactions/cash shops are inherently a part of that model. The only exception that comes to mind is Guild Wars, but they sold a retail game, and are a different format from most MMO's.
4. Call it a test, call it what ever you want. If SOE puts out the game, everyone will be expecting standard customer support, GM's/CSR's, documentation, etc. If they don't provide that, it will reflect poorly on the total corporation (I know, I know, they've already lost their reputation). If they do provide that, then that is another significant cost that needs to be added in.
Bottom line, it's never going to happen, there is probably no value to doing it, and if they did do it then I suspect someone high up is trying to sabotage the company. There is no other possible explanation.
Originally posted by ashfallen Not to burst anyone's bubble, but do you really believe pre-NGE SWG is as good as you remember it? Lets for a moment say this did happen...Would it really be as good as everyone remembers it or do our memories betray us?
why would asking a non-answerable question burst anyone's bubble? lmao
failed attempt at saying precu sucks is what that was.
here's another 'hypothetical'. If, and I do mean 'if', there were a half-baked precu server floating around with lots of bugs and missing features - I would 'probably' have more fun playing that then any other mmorpg on the market.
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but do you really believe pre-NGE SWG is as good as you remember it? Lets for a moment say this did happen...Would it really be as good as everyone remembers it or do our memories betray us?
why would asking a non-answerable question burst anyone's bubble? lmao
failed attempt at saying precu sucks is what that was.
here's another 'hypothetical'. If, and I do mean 'if', there were a half-baked precu server floating around with lots of bugs and missing features - I would 'probably' have more fun playing that then any other mmorpg on the market.
I don't think he was saying "pre-CU sucks." I think he was saying that it tends to be looked at around here with rose-colored glasses, and that pre-CU had its share of issues. Both of which are absolutely true.
It was good, it was better than NGE, but it wasn't utopia.
Comments
Only precu servers are emu's. STOP making posts about pre cu servers. AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN! got it mmkay thx bye
Thanks for such an inciteful post, obviously you spent time reading and fully understanding the nature of the OP instead of jumping to conclusions
got it mmkay thxbye
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but do you really believe pre-NGE SWG is as good as you remember it? Lets for a moment say this did happen...Would it really be as good as everyone remembers it or do our memories betray us?
I gotta agree with you on this, SOE are not likely to want to "branch out" into uncharted waters, regardless of the unique opportunities that they have to test them before jumping in feet first like the rest of the MMO industry would have to.
Shame really. Perhaps it's true what I mentioned earlier: irrespective of how some feel on these forums, the typical sandbox design is inherently flawed and therefore not worth investment. Regardless of the unique elements it brings to the MMO industry. Odd really, cos you'd think themepark MMO's would at least attempt to envelope SOME of the better sandbox elements. I guess it boils down to a case of not enough resources.
Let's hope Bioware prove that its worth the effort to refine and develop the standard MMO design of themepark MMOs further than before.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
For me personally, it was never THAT good for my own personal liking. It had good points, sure. But such typical sandbox games felt under-developed to me. I guess that's why I enjoy themepark MMO's more.
And after I made that last statement, I'm now waiting for the obvious question that no doubt someone is dying to ask because they failed to fully comprehend the OP....... hehehe ............
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
If you were asking about some fictitous comany doing this, I would say "sure, could be possible, interesting, and worth taking a look at". Being SOE, I don't see the incentive. I know what's been discussed in this thread, but just based on history, I can't see SOE trying this idea out. I mean, how many years did it take them to finally admit that the NGE deployment wasn't such a good idea (though not sure they admited teh NGE wasn't a good idea :P). What have they done since then? Added item shops and trading card games to a number of their titles, released Free Realms and started development on another SW game that, by all accounts, seems like are reskin of Free Realms. Everything they do seems to move in the opposite direction of an F2P Pre-CU (or even Pre-NGE) game. I can't imagine they even have the desire to enter the adult sandbox market any more.
Perhaps though, they've already done their test with Vanguard. While I haven't personally played that game, I've read many comments that seem to paint it as a hybrid. If those are at all accurate, then the only thing missing is the well known IP (and yes, I know they are different settings).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I mostly agree with the OP...Though there would HAVE to be some way for SOE to make cash off it...So a cash shop would almost certainly have to be implemented...But I'd play...ESPECIALLY if it was the CU...I'd be all over that, and I know about 10-12 Guildies who would join Me immediately...
I know the whole story about the Old Code being gone, and the Code written over Code and all that...But from My understanding it's Lucas Arts that has stood in the way of any Pre NGE Servers going up...Basically they understand that the NGE was a massive bomb, but they never thought of the Pre NGE as any sort of success either...So supposedly the feeling is, at least with LA, that a Pre NGE Server only further soils the SW license...It's kind of a weird way to see it...But if LA says no then it's no plain and simple...
@mklinic and Kyngbills: You're both probably right. SOE seems to be focused more on the "free realms" type games rather than anything else. And as for LA, well who knows what's going on there.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
See I still don't think so. There is a big difference between model and implementation. Pre NGE Star Wars received X subs. There is no indication that years latter it would do any better. X subs was not worth what Sony expected from a Star Wars IP. They demand change. Change kills sub base.
That does not mean that sandbox as a concept was a failure is wrong, it's just that their flavor of it didn't do well. Could there be sandbox designs that fare well? Sure, if the gameplay and reasons for playing are there, then there is no reason that one could not do well.
By definition running a second version of SWG, for free, would have a very real chance of negatively impacting the subs of the NGE. So you can't release it without affecting the other's sub base. Sure, it might be nice to say, "the good old days were not all the good... just old." However, from Sony's perspective, they know this already and unless they are going to invest in changes or other new material there is no reason to expect to have any more subs than they did last time when they deemed it not good enough.
Now, if you are going to say that they should use the engine as a platform to develop a new sandbox experience with new content, then I would agree that you might have some kind of valid test.
As much as a Pre-NGE server would be nice, it will never happen. That would mean that Smedley would have to admit that the NGE wasn't a mistake and that people actually enjoyed the old SWG, which we all know wasn't the case because Smedley thinks noone knows what they want unless Sony tells them.
Cash shop, microtransactions is the exact opposite of what people loved about pre-NGE SWG.
I doubt any of us vets would play pre-NGE with the pay to win format.
I personally will NEVER play a microtransaction model.
Just say NO to "pay to win"
Aha! That is exactly the point!
The launch of a temporary "Classic server" to serve as a testbed, a prototype as it were, to examine the validity of a new sandbox model that would possibly incorporate some of the elements found in SWG Pre-NGE.
The SWG Pre-NGE engine is pretty old by technology standards and thus it probably wouldn't be used as a foundation for a new sandbox MMO. Nevertheless, such a "classic" server could be used purely as a prototype platform to gauge public reaction to the sandbox model. And, IF it proved worthy, it could then used to develop further elements to test new features as well. Development of new features would never be at the rate found in "Live" MMO's, but nevertheless, certain features could still be tested on it in order to provide justification for development of a new MMO.
In short, think of this hyperthetical "Classic SWG" server as a temporary Test Server for an MMO that hasn't been developed yet. Where testing is being done on a larger scale than typical intial testing that is done "in house".
It's just unfortunate that the product is owned by a company who probably isn't interested in developing sandbox designs anymore. The irony is, that the very product that caused them so much grief could actually be used to redeem them.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
(Mod Edit - please read the stickied thread concerning Free Servers. Those emailing the OP, please discontinue per his request.)
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
If the "evolution" of the MMO industry is the microtransaction pay to win scam format, then it will "evolve" me right out of the industry, because I will NOT support it.
Evolution of the MMO industry SHOULD BE new generation breakthrough persistent worlds. Not a new scam to suck a bit more cash out of us with the same garbage games.
Who said ANYTHING about microtransactions?? Don't you think you're presuming something?
F2P = free to play. Nothing to do with microtransactions or Cash Shops. Such things are often incidental to an F2P model and are implemented to supplement the loss of subscriptions for an MMO that is envisaged to last a long time.
Please see the previous posts in this thread on the matter.
Remember that this proposal is about a temporary test server which is used to develop a new MMO sandbox model incorporating some elements that were found in SWG Pre-CU.
Ignore the concept of F2P models in MMO's because that doesn't apply here. You don't demand a subscription or microtransactions on a test server.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Since we're being hypothetical then sure, in this fantasy it sounds like a great idea if it makes you happy. Arguing the validity of your proposal to other gamers isn't going to accomplish anything. If you think it'd be a great idea, awesome. But I think everyone else is looking at it more pragmatically taking into account the social climate for mmo's and fiscal responsibilities and the realisms of launching and supporting any mmo.
It's kind of like saying "hey wouldn't it be awesome if we could make horses fly with gene splicing!" and then having people point out all the flaws in that. You can just cover your ears and enjoy the fantasy but trying to convince them its possible is a futile act.
Besides, even if you did manage to sway them and convince them this dream of yours is practical, it wouldn't make SOE do anything. SOE is a company like any other, they're looking twards the future, focused on whats new and trendy to get the biggest payback for their invested efforts and sustaining costs. Retro gaming for small niche markets isn't something they'll focus their efforts on.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
The idea of using the engine is interesting, but then why tie it to something that already has a lot of baggage? If you were going to test a new sandbox experience, or a hybrid model, why not spend a couple months doing a reskin and get away from the SWG stigma? Don't get me wrong, I would love to play Pre-CU again, but for the stated goal of testing, I don't think the SWG we knew is really the best way to get useful testing done.
Changing the cosmetics and IP would still allow for testing the engine while not directly competing with the NGE version of the game. We can say whatever we want about its success or failure, but it's still running, so apparently, between station pass, TCG, server transfers, etc, it must be justifying its costs and therefore, not something SOE would really want to compete with (in my opinion).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
please to be making this for great justice
I suppose its possible that a reskin would be beneficial to the process and thus do away with some of the "baggage". However part of the advantage of this is to minimise actual costs involved in setting it up and launching it (if only for a few months).
But now that you mention it, perhaps there is an additional benefit to reskinning it into something resembling the new MMO (e.g. low rez textures, reusing as many of the old models as possible). I realise that we're getting towards the realms of using a "commercial off-the-shelf" engine, but if the old engine is used then theres no actual cost of purchasing one, which can be substantial and not practical for these purposes. Reskinning may prove beneficial even though it incurrs extra cost, and such a cost would still be incurred had a new engine been purchased for the same task. Of course, in this hyperthetical example, just how much cost would be incurred from doing such a "reskin" is unknown.
Would you have to redo the landmasses and all models? Or could you get away with just removing all textual references to SWG?
Btw, I realise that we are discussing an engine that isn't based on SWGs IP anymore, but I didn't create this thread in the SWG forums. It was moved here
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Am I the only one who remembers how bad and unbalanced the game was pre-NGE. Why would you want to go back to that eludes me. Unless you want to play the last FOTM combo while wearing composite armor with everyone else.
Please read the whole thread as you seem to be missing the point. The fact is that this thread ISN'T about reviving a "Classic SWG" server JUST so a number of people can play on it to relive old times.
We are discussing the concept of re-using the SWG Pre-NGE model PURELY for the purposes of testing a new sandbox design that reuses some of the concepts that were found in SWG Pre-NGE. Whether or not this "testbed" uses the Starwars Galaxies IP is not a requirement. Its the concepts that were used in the game and the engine itself is that what matters. Incidentally, because this thread is dealing with a sandbox / hybrid model, the NGE version of the engine is not necessarily suitable for the task.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
So many things about this shoot way past the limits of reality:
1. You talk about implementing "off the shelf" as a limited run test as some form of expense savings. What are they testing? As they already have data from SWG to show that in a less competitive market it underperformed, I don't see why they would want to test anything like this on the open market.
2. If it is the implementation of new ideas on an old technology, what is the value of such a test? When you think about costs, you need to factor in the cost of training a developer team on the code itself. This would be monumentally expensive, and in all likelyhood would negate a large part of the savings vs. building a new engine for the sandbox. If you are going to spend that kind of time and energy just learning the engine, you might as well build a new one that takes advantage of new technology/architecture and thus see some actual benifit. Either way, it seems the costs significantly outweigh the benefits of any learnings they might get.
3. You started this thread discussing the use of the free to play business model. Micro-transactions/cash shops are inherently a part of that model. The only exception that comes to mind is Guild Wars, but they sold a retail game, and are a different format from most MMO's.
4. Call it a test, call it what ever you want. If SOE puts out the game, everyone will be expecting standard customer support, GM's/CSR's, documentation, etc. If they don't provide that, it will reflect poorly on the total corporation (I know, I know, they've already lost their reputation). If they do provide that, then that is another significant cost that needs to be added in.
Bottom line, it's never going to happen, there is probably no value to doing it, and if they did do it then I suspect someone high up is trying to sabotage the company. There is no other possible explanation.
why would asking a non-answerable question burst anyone's bubble? lmao
failed attempt at saying precu sucks is what that was.
here's another 'hypothetical'. If, and I do mean 'if', there were a half-baked precu server floating around with lots of bugs and missing features - I would 'probably' have more fun playing that then any other mmorpg on the market.
I don't think he was saying "pre-CU sucks." I think he was saying that it tends to be looked at around here with rose-colored glasses, and that pre-CU had its share of issues. Both of which are absolutely true.
It was good, it was better than NGE, but it wasn't utopia.
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