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General: Majority Rules?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In her latest Player Perspectives article, MMORPG.com's Jaime Skelton wonders how the MMO universe could expand. Whether through platform MMOs or more sports MMOs, Jaime believes the MMO industry can grow. Read on!
The MMO industry has long established a majority rule for fantasy. Role-playing games are what started this whole business, and so fantasy is the comfort zone, the cozy chair that many of us pull up to at the end of a long day. In recent years, however, the industry has taken a turn down niche streets, little suburbs away from the fantasy metropolis. Science fiction was a natural progression (visit any bookstore and see the lack of distinction between the two genres in fiction), but we've now turned to first- and third-person shooters set from crime-ridden cities to apocalyptic wastelands and sending superheroes off in spandex.
Read on to see if you agree with Jaime.
Comments
I have to say that was an intersting read. I disagree that the majority of mmo's were sci-fi baed. The majority happen to be fantisy based. I.E wow, eq2, lotro, ddo. I am tired of games filled full of elves, wizards, and gnomes.
I would love more sci-fi mmos.
Sort games dont get it for me, and probably not for a lot of folks. The only sports we do in our house is when the Crimson Tide rolls in and give the other team the Rama-Jama Cheer.
A lot of these niche games are just that niche, not a full fledged mmo. A lot of these games are missing the word massive.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I guess the best thing to say is "each to his own". Most of these attempts at entering the MMO arena outside the fantasy realm seems to me to be flailing at windmills. The only non fantasy games to hold my attention beyond a month or two were SWG prior to NGE and Eve.
I find most of the new stuff to be very shallow. They seem to be attempting to reach out to the casual gamer which is fine, except that most of them don't stick around long. I don't think any of these developers want to take the time to make a game with any depth which is the reason many of us scoff at them.
The statement in the article is: "The MMO industry has long established a majority rule for fantasy." It says FANASTY is the majority NOT sci-fi.
One another note, I like the diversity in coming titles but the expection from several individuals within many of those titles is to make a game that matches that "fantasy" model we all know as WoW. While WoW may have been a commercial success, it does not mean that it is a customer favorite. By that I mean that not every person that plays WoW would want to play a new mmo that is a WoW-clone. Players, old and new, want innovation that allows access to the game but new systems that are not just built for Jonnie Simpleton. They want a game with detailed crafting system OR a complex set diplomacy game OR a sophisticated means to travel from area to OR much more. Players want to get past the beginners or entry level of most of today's mmo's and get into something that is far more interesting.
Let's party like it is 1863!
But not the majority of players.
I miss Lemmings and Worms and a few others, I definitely miss strategy... A little gem that is on the market now and is considered an RTS is The Settlers 7, this game is very, very amazing when it comes to resource management and strategy. Take a look at The Settlers 7 and see how an RTS 'should' be, the game is not focused on combat so you won't see 200 planes flying over to wipe you out, no zerging, just good old fashion consideration.
Anyway, MMOs with this sort of thing is why I'm in school now, I cannot stand the idea of an MMO anymore without some kind of strategy.
*Edit* The Lego video games bring great strategy although not too complicated, I hope the Lego Universe does the same or at least a little. /shrug
I believe the majority of players nowadays doesn't know what they want... Mostly because the MMO market has been flooded only in the last five years. Most of the WoW players have never even played another MMO or even a single player game outside of WoW... So I disagree with you here Comnitus, I think they 'do' want something with more depth just like anybody reading a book might want depth in character and story or depth in a movie.
Does everyone want that? no of course not, but new york times best selelrs are not shallow and easy, Avatar was not a shallow or easy movie... Just like Fallout 3 is not shallow... Good games in the single player arena set themselves apart from the obvious quick and easy make a buck games. That's really all web based games are, quick and easy make a buck games. It's a fad it'll wear off, if it doesn't then they'll have to make games that are higher quality if they stand to make a buck in a market already being flooded.
So again, I believe the majority of players want a game that has depth and good story, good personality and features.
This is an interesting argument to me mostly because when it's all said and done; WoW isn't that great of a game. But it's solid and stable and its been around for 5 years. It sports a large number of people. A lot of new players went into it during Vanilla, and made new friends and stuck around for those friends. But that doesn't mean that the game is any good, it means they enjoy being social in a fairly anonymous enviroment.
On a couple of the posts above, I have the following thought:
The funny thing about MMO's is there has to be a good balance, and I don't mean Characters or classes.
If you make it too easy people will complain and quit.
If you make it too hard, people will complain and quit.
If you make it possible for casual players to get endgame level gear and don't do a lot of end game content, people will whine and complain, but they won't quit.
There are many areas that lend itself easily to MMO's that doesn't mean that they should be made
I point to the lack of players in Warhammer and LotRO as evidence that players do NOT want another WoW clone.
Clones are pablum. Forget the idea that WoW is a formula to follow, it isn't; it is that magical something that happens sometimes with movies, books, and the like when all the parts come together to create more than what those parts might mean on paper. WoW has easy-mode crafting, fast leveling, casual game play, but it is not those things, and if you create an MMO thinking having those things will get you a fat player base, you will not likely succeed.
Forget the idea that you can build for the opinion of the majority. The majority doesn't have an opinion, the individuals in it do, and if you can't understand the difference then you will be pushing the proverbial rope uphill to make a game that millions are happy with.
I agree with Jaime, but think of it in a different way, I think. The elements that we might associate with one type of gaming - like the jumps she mentioned - are not just "platform" game elements, and I would hope a creative MMO team would not be limited in thinking that such a thing was only good for platform games. I think it is good to take a look at other games to be reminded of the possibilites though, so, I agree.
MMORPGs have just begun; it is no time to fall in to some kind of "tried and true" way of doing things. Rather, I hope we are going to take advantage of new technology and encourage creativity to be expressed in richer ways than ever before.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Allowing the majority of players to decide the direction of an MMo is why most of modern MMO releases fail.
Most players are selfish, self centered, dickheads who have zero clue about what is best for the game, and no interest beyone what will make their own char/race/faction the best.
Devs should get feedback from players in Closed Beta, Beta and release, take it into account, make any common sense changes to mechanics that are not working and summarily dismiss anything that alters what their vision of the game should be.
Pandering to the masses is what ruins most MMO's. Those that whine the loudest and hardest are usually the first to abandon a game at teh drop of a hat.
Ignore the masses as much as you can and stick to what you envisioned. You will probably have more success.
Just an general observation from playing games for awhile, fantasy RPGs have built in mechanisms that make them last a long time. I mean stand-alone games easily hit 40-80 hours of game play, so taking that experience, broadening it and saying yeah we can make enough content to last for 6 months, 1 year or a couple of years and keep adding to it works. I mean the Pen and Paper RPGs pretty much proved you can keep building on a basic setup up for years to come and people will buy it.
Let's look at a traditional FPS, some of them have content that lasts, at most, 10 hours. Allt he money is spent in graphics and marketing, and there isn't much depth at all. I say this as someone who purchases and plays a few FPS. I think it's about longevity. Some of the most popular genre's out there aren't easily transferred to an MMO. I don't think of people would be would happy if they took MW2, threw it onto a giant server and sold it to players at 50 dollars a pop and a 15 month sub fee. So then the question is, what can you add to a modern war type game that keeps players coming back and, most importantly, paying for more? More guns, more maps... how long before that becomes stale?
In this case, I guess I am part of the majority. I love fantasy, absolutely love fantasy RPGs. I am enjoying Mass Effect 2 though so it's not as if i reject all brands of RPGs, but that's still an RPG (bit of an FPS hybrid). I could see some nice strategy games live online, but Cities XL proves you can't cheapen the experience and charge a premium for it, strategy players, in general, aren't blind followers willing to pay out no matter how bad it is.
I still think niche games are great; they just need to admit they're a niche game and sell that niche and stop trying to broaden the experience and then watch as all their niche playersr abandon ship. I've never played EVE, but I am happy something like that exists and seems to be doing relatively well.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Interesting read. Sports MMO's? Hopefully not! And please no 2D - so glad we're past that now!
I like fantasy MMO's and SciFi. Although I'd likely consider one with good characterization, lore, etc., set in any time period. I'd love a bit more challenge than some have now, who doesn't enjoy a good puzzle more strategy or a difficult quest, etc. I'd like more ability to make the characters you play different than a clone of everyone else on a server/world. It would be great if some of the MMO's could incorporate more of the player driven world/economy. I think most of us would like to think we're having some affect on the world in our MMO's that's what seems to be missing.
Hopefully more niche market games will come out whether they're set in the present, past, future or alternate world.
I'm downloading EVE this weekend.
Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.
Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2
It's hard to imagine even pleasing a dozen people, never mind thousands. So diversity of games will always be with us. Not to hijack this post but for me the genre is not as important as how the company treats it's players. Not to start a fanbois flame-fest, I can only speak of my own experience but I am much less likely to play a game where they treat you like dirt (ex: Blizzard) and much more likely to play a game where you feel like the devs care and listen to you, even if they don't do what everyone wants, which can lead to disaster... (ex: Fallen Earth) So the genre is a good hook but customer relations is what keeps a lot of folks spending their dollars. Most folks want a solid, fun product - example... look how well Dragon Age and Mass Effect have been received, both very different genres but quality, fun games. Now a Mass Effect MMO..... that would be something!
Of course this article fails to notice that most of the mentioned genres already are online. They might not have the "massive" that a lot of ppl seem to be so keen on, but honestly how many times do you see pvp fights in classical mmos that go beyond 64 vs 64 that happen in several FPS'? Or how are you supposedly increase numbers of simultaneous players in sports games, since thee rules of the sport dictate how many players can be on at one time? So if you remember that you'll notice that both FPS and sports have gone online a long time ago already, they're just smart enough (so far) to realize it's nothing they should tack a sub fee on, since it doesn't deserve it.
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Jaime, you are the best writer here at MMORPG.com. Actuallty, I sometimes think you're too good for this website. Thanks for another interesting and informative article.
Good article,
though mixing every genre with MMO is not the best idae in the world if you ask me.
The latest trend is adapting games to support the MMO tag so they can avoid piracy and cash in more money.
Maybe I'm mixing ideas, but I don't think it would be nice if all games became subscription based. Take APB, its a shooter, its only and somewhere its "massivly".
In short what I'm trying to say is that we will be playing a subcription for Call of Duty or Bejeweled before we know it. MMO has been established being a reliable platform.
So I suppose we can guess what comes next....
Great article. Inspires additional thought and stirs the last few remaining brain cells I may have after mindlessly grinding through WoW these past few years.
I guess this is very much written from the western perspective, as most of the "NEW" stuff you talk about has been out in Asia for several years already.
Great article!
I agree with you in many ways. I think the biggest issues that are holding this genre back are;
- Companies trying to 'mimic' the industry leader. This isn't always a bad thing but there is a difference between evolving from what worked and recreating all the elements with a twist. Innovation is not replacing swords with glow sticks or making elves green instead of blue. I think for the most part developers see and understand this but the problem is the guy with the money. He sees a 11 million ton gorilla and wants what that gorilla has. A game may start out with innovative systems but after time concepts get cut and altered into the direction of the gorilla. It is considered a risk to do anything different whereas I think the risk is in recreation.
- Traditionalist MMO players trying to pigeon hold every game to their preferences. In other genres if I see a game I don't like, I just don't play it. In MMOs if a player see something they don't like they join the forum community and bleed epic tears of entitlement. Half the time these players would be the first to bail on a game (if they even play it) but they feel compelled to hold every game that uses the term 'MMO' to their personal preset standards.
- I feel hype is another problem to some degree. I had a very good discussion with some other users here a month or two back about how letting people in too early could be very damaging to the game. At the time I was arguing against them but the more I look for it, the more I see it. No other genre allows players to tag along throughout every design phase, commenting on an incomplete system. Somehow developers need to either figure out more creative ways to make this work or do away with it all together.
99.9% of asian mmos are copy and paste jobs of each other, so I don't see where there's any difference as you're trying to infer. And if the eastern mmo developers had ANYTHING that could "topple WoW off its throne", they would have already.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I don't necessarily agree that all these niche types of games need to get their own mmo, but what if future mmos incorporated these niche games or activities into their worlds?This has already been done to some extent in many games.
In Ultima Online, the players invented their own sport called bag ball. And they made use of some of the craftable items in game to create their own archery contests.
So many current mmos have rideable mounts, why hasn't anybody come up racing tracks/leagues for players to compete/sponsor/place bets on?Or have things like jousting tournaments? Of course, you'd have to make combat actually viable on mounts.Right now, they're just used as a means of faster travel or vanity items more thanb anything else.
Why not have the space gamne where after flying around fighting other corps you can meet up at a space station and have a brew and play some poker?
I was really hoping that WAR would introduce my other favorite Games Workshop game, Blood Bowl into the mix. That would've been cool to me at least ( I'm sure Blizzard could do it too.They'd just rip off Warhammer again and call it "War Bowl" or something).
Anyway, while I agree it might be fun to introduce niche types of games to the mmo universe, I don't think you need to make the mmo based on that one thing.Isn't Free Realms pretty much made up of a bunch of minigames?
Why not do something similar to that, but made for an older, more seasoned mmo crowd?
When I first started playing online games, there was a service called Gamestorm that for a monthly fee let you play all these smaller online types of games like Air Warrior,Legends of Kesmai and an online version of Battletech.Maybe something like that would work.I don't think I'd care for a golf or racing or racing and baseball mmo by itself but what if they were all bundled together?
They woulld if thay could. But anything they come out with would be considered by players to notheing more than another World of Warcreaft knock off. Aion WoW clone. Age of Conan, knock off, Runes of Magic clone. The list goes on and on. Anything that has something to do with melee weapons would be considered a clone. And you know what? If it doesnt have certain aspect like WoW then it sucks. The logic in that thinking is just wrong and unfair to game dev. They try to go a route away from WoW and players slam them for. They try to go the way of WoW, but slightly different. Yet they still getslammed for. Lets just face WoW screwed up the industry and everyone knows it. Yeah World of Warcraft's lore is different, but as for the games other aspect it in itself is a clone. A clone of other games before it. But now that I think about it the lore is kinda cloned too.
If 99% of asain mmos are nothing buy cut copy and paste games. I wonder how come they are so sucesseful pver there. Must be doing something right