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Class Re-envisioning (from SOE web site)
Class Re-envisioning
Over the course of the last few months, since we announced this project, we have had numerous discussions on the classes. During these discussions we identified some key changes, that are relatively easy for us to implement, that could result in better gameplay for all of you. While this is far from complete (the process and this list) it is the start of this class re-envisionment, reflections, redefinition, whatever we all decide to call it besides balance. Some of these changes you see on this list will make it live for our April 6th update. Others we would like to hear your thoughts and ideas on before continuing. We think that there are some very positive changes here, some of which kind of go against the grain of EQ gameplay. So let the discussion begin;
We'll start with some general gameplay changes that either affect all classes or multiple classes.
General
We are removing the level 55 fear cap and adding advanced spells to the fear lines to make them current. Now, this doesn't mean that all NPCs can be feared, we will be making use of a no-fear flag to stop potential game-play problems.
We will remove the hard coded aggro generated by poison based debuffs which will result in some DoTs and Tash generating less aggro than they currently do as well as more consistent aggro generation.
We are going to spread spell progression out for levels 1 to 50 to reduce the levels gaps between gaining new spells. We would like casters to gain new spells every level and enjoy more even progression.
We are planning to add new abilities and disciplines to non-casters and spread those out between levels 1 to 50, along with their current abilities to make sure non-casters also have progression, in the form of a new ability, every level.
Pet owners will be able to click off any buffs they do not want their pet to have.
We are changing many of the all-or-nothing immune flags so they mitigate the effect instead. We want you to use your abilities on most NPCs, but where we feel the ability might be problematic the ability will have a lesser effect.
You will see the healing messages for Heal Over Time spells. There will also be a filter for this new message.
We will change the potion "Essence of Concealment" from invisibility to improved invisibility and make the components easier for alchemists to find.
All spells will check for immunity before they are cast. So if the target is immune, the spell will not generate aggro for the caster.
We would like ammunition to auto-feed from your inventory directly to the ranged slot.
We are eliminating the +mana cap.
We are removing the inherent resist rate from rain spells.
Solo Play
EverQuest is a group-based game we all know that but we also know that there are times that many of us like to hunt alone. Some of our classes can solo effectively, while others can't. We plan to make changes to classes that struggle with soloing to allow them some solo play. These changes will be made to only affect their abilities while solo and not affect how they perform in groups.
1. We are still discussing the best way to go about this but some of the options we have discussed are listed here;
a. Add healing potions to the game. To prevent this from unbalancing the group game, we need to be careful how these potions work. They may need to be a healing potion that does heal-over-time and does not stack with any other healing spells. Another option is simply having a long reuse on the potion so its effectiveness in a group situation, where the player is generally taking on much more difficult NPCs, is not affected much.
b. We are exploring class abilities that add the pieces needed to solo while also taking away the abilities that make them useful in a group situation. An example of this is a warrior ability that increases their defensive abilities and gives them a damage boost, but causes them to be able to generate nearly no aggro while the ability is in effect, so the warrior would not be able to tank for most groups
Class Specific Changes
Now onto the class changes. We know that this is what most of you are looking for and we think we have a pretty solid plan. Again, as I mentioned above, this is just the beginning folks. Our team is still crunching numbers and other changes are dependent upon that data. We will not be making any changes to melee DPS, tanking and other combat balance issues until that data is completed and we see what effects these changes have on gameplay. We ask that you please discuss these changes on your class board. And please folks, be constructive. If you think the ideas have no merit, say why. We can't work on it with you with bad feedback. OMG This SUXXORS is not going to help.
Bards
We will be increasing your instrument mod cap and using itemization to limit the inherent power gains. This also means that certain songs will have built in maximums to prevent them from scaling indefinitely.
Beastlords
We will add at least one new slow spell for you which has an innate resistance mod built in so that it lands more often. This will help you perform the role of slower in your groups, since you don't have access to the powerful resistance lowering spells of other slowing classes.
We will be boosting your healing so it stays on par with ranger healing when we improve ranger heals.
We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it.
We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players.
We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet healing spells and reducing the casting time where appropriate.
Berserkers
Many Berserker complaints are about their damage output and this isnt something we can really address without the results of the number crunching. Our thoughts are that you are fine at lower levels and pretty decent at high levels with your AAs, but you may need some help at the mid levels. Should our numbers support our thoughts, we will be adjusting things so your damage progression is smoother across the levels.
We are looking into the endurance cost of many of your abilities and lowering them as necessary.
We are looking into adding throwing quivers that grant innate haste similar to normal quivers.
Clerics
With Dragons of Norrath you gained two new spells that you seem to enjoy; Mark of Vengeance and Mark of Retribution. We will be changing these spells into full spell lines that you get early on and that scale up as you level.
We want to make your Turn Undead spells effective at all levels. Some of the suggested changes include:
a. Changing the fear part of the spell so the rest of the spell still works even if the fear fails or removing the fear portion of the spell entirely.
b. Adding a strong snare effect.
Druids
Druids are a unique challenge in that the class is divided evenly between you offensive druids who enjoy doing damage, and you defensive druids who prefer to play the role of healer. We want to support both play styles, but if we were to increase both halves of the druid equally the class would quickly become overpowered. Our plan is to introduce a new option where a druid can enter into a particular mode or stance where they become better at one part at the expense of the other. Our preferred solution for this is to add an innate ability for druids. The ability would get its own button similar to abilities such as backstab or track. You will be able to be in one of three states and can switch between them once every 5 minutes.
a. Normal Their healing and offensive abilities are in balance. This is the state they exist in today.
b. Offensive Their offensive power is boosted by 25%, but they suffer a 50% reduction in the power of their healing spells.
c. Defensive Their healing power is boosted by 25%, but they suffer a 50% reduction in the power of their offensive spells.
Another of our goals is to broaden the core grouping roles to allow all classes to more easily put together groups. Similar to how any of the 3 main tanks should be able to perform that role in a group, we want any of the 3 healers to be able to perform the role of a main healer in a group. The changes mentioned above for druids will allow you to fill a healing role and perform at about 80% of the effectiveness of a cleric.
Enchanters
We will add higher level upgrades to the Word of Morell spell line.
We plan to change the way mana drain works. In the past the spell had diminishing effects on NPCs above level 53. We will be removing that limitation so you can use Theft of Thought on higher level caster NPCs and we can introduce more powerful spells in that line, in the future. However, we will also be changing drains so that they only return the mana the NPC has instead of always returning the full amount. If an NPC only has 100 mana and your spell does a 400 drain, you will only get 100 mana. This is a necessary change as most NPCs, including non-casters, are given small amounts of mana in order to power some innates.
We all know that the power of NPCs has climbed and the difficulty in charming NPCs has retreated. This has led to an imbalance where you were able to charm NPCs that do far more damage than ever intended and with minimal risk. This lead us to the unfortunate decision to make many NPC's uncharmable. With OOW, we introduced a change to charm that allowed us to make most NPCs charmable again, but reduce their effectiveness and remove the gameplay imbalance. We did this by reducing their stats while charmed. This presented some new problems though, the largest of which is you like to haste and buff your pets to get the most out of them and when the charm breaks, you face a much more powerful NPC. We have a plan to ensure charms usefulness and want to gather your opinion before putting it into motion.
a. We want charm to be an integral part of your gameplay. You should be able to grab a charmed pet in most circumstances and use that to benefit your group.
b. We will be looking at the stats NPCs use when charmed to ensure they are within the intended range.
c. We would like to add innate buff effects to enchanter charm spells. While an NPC is under the effects of the charm, they will also be under the effect of spells similar to what you would use to buff your pet. When charm breaks those effects will go away so you are only dealing with the NPC in its base state.
d. The change mentioned above would cause further imbalance in zones where NPCs dont currently lower their stats when charmed, the changes that were made in Omens will need to be made across the rest of the game and this will be the way new charm works in all of Norrath.
e. After charm changes for all zones, we can go back and open up the use of charm in areas where it was previously excluded due to balance problems making charm much more usable throughout the game world.
Mages
We will be converting most, if not all, of your summons to place the items directly into the hands of the target. Of course, we will also need a new toggle that lets players turn off this ability from anyone not in their group, anyone not in their raid, or anyone at all.
We will be adding new pet pack spells that contain the more used summoned pet item to help relieve the tedium of summoning many different items.
We will be fixing Turn Summoned in a way similar to how we fix Turn Undead for clerics. See the cleric section for more details.
We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it.
We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players.
We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet heals and reducing the casting time where appropriate.
Monks
We will be reversing the AC mitigation reduction that you received during the Planes of Power era.
Necromancers
We will add new spells in the Screaming Terror line to give you some more combat utility.
We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it.
We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players.
We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet heal spells and reducing the casting times where appropriate.
Paladins
We want you to be a main tank in group situations. We believe that you are currently able to fill this role, but want to assure you that our intent is for a group to be able to grab a warrior, paladin, or shadowknight as their main tank and be effective with any of them.
With DoN, you gained a limited form of defensive. We are monitoring your feedback and if you like this direction; we plan to make it a full spell line that begins at the level warriors get the defensive discipline.
Rangers
Rangers are good at many things and when all the parts add up properly, theyre a class that is in heavy demand. Our feeling is that the parts are not adding up properly in the current game. We are still digesting all of the DPS numbers and stats but in the meantime we identified a couple of things we can increase in the short term.
a. We will be improving the damage you do through spells.
b. We will be boosting your healing ability, particularly at the top end of the game.
Rogues
We will fix the problems with Assassins Feint so it works correctly and then gauge your reaction to the working ability. If it turns out to be something that you like, we will look into adding more combat utility through a similar means.
We are looking into adding throwing quivers that grant innate haste similar to how normal quivers work
Shadowknights
We also want Shadowknights to be a main tank in group situations. We believe that you are currently able to fill this role, but want to assure you that our intent is for a group to be able to grab a warrior, paladin, or shadowknight as their main tank and be effective with any of them.
With DoN, you also gained a limited form of defensive. We are monitoring your feedback and if you like this direction; we plan to make it a full spell line that begins at the level warriors get the defensive discipline.
Shaman
In DoN you received the spells Spirit of the Leopard and Spirit of the Panther. You seem to like these new spells and they have added more desirability for you in groups. We will be extending these into full spell lines so that Shaman of other level ranges can see the benefits from these spells.
As with Druids, we are looking to increase your healing ability so you can function better as main healer in groups. You folks are a little problematic though, since your healing ability is the function of not just your heals, but your ability to reduce an NPCs damage output through slows. In a situation where an NPC is fully slowable, you are a superb healer but against an NPC who cannot be slowed, your healing falls behind. If we were to just improve your heals, you would quickly outshine any other healer when facing NPCs that can be slowed. So, we are investigating ways to improve your healing ability only in circumstances where an NPC cannot be slowed or you choose not to slow the NPC (for your own strange reasons). These changes will be rolled out at the same time as any druid healing changes to ensure that one class does not eclipse the other.
Warriors
Many of the ideas for changes to the warrior class are dependant upon the results of the data we are still compiling. However, we are looking into improving your ability to solo in the mid and high level game as well as;
We are looking into the endurance cost of many of your disciplines and lowering them as necessary.
We will increase the knockback on Press the Attack slightly.
Wizards
With DoN, you received more mana efficient nukes that are aimed at improving your sustained DPS. We will be extending this into a line of spells to help out with sustained DPS at different level ranges.
We will fix Manaburn. Our preferred method is to uncap the ability and implement a cap based on the maximum percentage of health you can do in a single hit. So one of you, facing a million hit point boss mob (fairly common in todays game) can expect a full manaburn to land for 10s of thousands of points of damage in one hit.
Once again I would like to remind you that this is the beginning of the changes and there is still more to come. We encourage you to openly discuss these changes and let us know what you think. We want this to be a cooperative exchange and we will chime in on your discussions when appropriate.
Thanks all.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Comments
LOL.
Why make simple when you can make complicated.
Charms: Once you reduce a mob stats after a charm, this NERF is permanent on this precise NPC, so if charm break, he is as weak as he was while charmed, why can a NPC beat the crap out of folks that charm them, but they cant be effectively charmed? Once charmed, it should have a permanent NERF, not something that goes away when the charm break, see this as permanent damage. You can reduce the XP the mob would give if killed, and a mob that have been charmed could have a difference in his name to let know everyone he was weaken permanently. (In gameplay, the mob could experience instant death upon receiving a charm(giving a ratio of XP for the damage he already take pre-charm) so his replacement timer(spawn) start now, the new charmed keep the loot and look similar, but is, for good, nerfed). Finally, a charmed mob that died should have a corpse lootable by the group of his charmer! If you dont want peoples to farm loot with charms, this is a secondary problem and I am sure it can be easily taken care off(like a nerfed loot for a RL time on charmed corpse, where only superior loot appear, not all what you already have on another corpse, so if you loot uber01 item, well, only the better item can be looted for the next 3 hours or whatever).
Anyway, I will not return to EQ. A game that focus on making players weakers and needing to always forged bigger alliances rather then make players strongers and betters and awesome, yet facing incredible odds and a few keys named...well...such a game is a game I walk away already. If someone solo better at level 1 then at level 70, your game is flawed, it should be the opposite! Players achieve, they get better and better, not the other way around! The average mob level 70 should be no match for an accomplished hero, they get their strenght in numbers, with exceptional names, with a few key abilities that can be awesome when it happen right with others factors...except maybe for a dungeon or 2, not for the everyday basic meal a hero eat. A level 70 should be a hero, not some lame retard LFG because he find solo to be handling no rewards!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Wow... They finnally are making berserkers a bit more damaging in mid range levels, I think they could use more damage in all levels but whatever. I dont play any more but its nice to know they still care about their EQ1 customers.
Even Frodo couldn't carry the ring alone bro..
I keep seeing your posts about how your not comming back to EQ all over the place.. Well ok then fine dont. Don't keep waving it in our face though. You want to go to another game, go ahead. But you can stop beating us over the head with it.
Like I said before, they already made a game for you. It is EQ2. All the mobs are even nicely labeled for you "group" or "solo" ... arent you just so special aww.... and they even have a nice little ^^ system for you so you know how hard something is.
I mean some people like looking up spoilers on websites... others are pureists... but I guess there is a new breed, those who want their cheats displayed for them as they are playing, talk about lazy sheesh....
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Personally, I like the way EQ is structured, oh, I'd like them to fix bugs, but the over all logic of the game suits me. Solo games, I tend to beat in about two weeks. EQ, I've been playing for about 5ish years (since the release of kunark) and I'm still playing. Course, EQ isn't for everyone. Thats why there are other games, market niches, console gamers, casual gamers, power gamers, whatever suits you, maybe EQ isn't for you... but surely you can find something
Newark
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Hehe, but since Issue 3 in CoH, I have to much free time and I go argue with folks here and there. I am currently playing Phantom Brave and Age of Wonders, they are fine, but well, I am bored.
CoH was to simple, but it was almost perfect...until they listen to the same arguments EQ listen so much about and they completely screw the game about it with ''group features''. I LOVE grouping, but I really hate a system that make solo unrewarding.
The reason someone play a MMORPG is not solo, however, you need something FUN to do at all the time. I dont want to be waiting, I want to be playing. Tradeskilling is NOT fun. Raiding, grouping and PvP are not available right NOW! Solo is, thereby solo need to be FUN, especially in the ''high end''.
This is why solo need to be better with the levels, not weaker! Make it impossible to solo pre-level 40 if you want, I will be all happy(althought the casuals will trash you all day long).
I dont care if when you solo you dont promote anything outside of the soloing uberness, that is all fine with me, I will just be more motivated to do other stuff then solo when the option show. However, solo uberness need to belong to soloers, not to raiders(or any other group).
Make solo a side mini game with endless grind, FINE! As long as solo uberness is within, I will be happy!
EQ is a game I play for years, it cant be all wrong, I wont have bear it if it was all wrong. The details, the depht, the challenge(should have more solo challenge for solo uberness) and the grouping system, I LOVE them. I just cant bear to be LFG for 10 minutes, forget it, I wont...I could run a side game you would say, but no, I wont, I would turn EQ off and play completely the side game rather then run a parallel side game. I dont care if the solo system would not work with levels(althought I love levels, so could be others levels hehe), as long as it have it own hierarchy that is not dependant on the non-solo activity, I would be very happy.
When I solo, I dont solo in order to advance my grouping power or my raiding edges, I solo because it is available NOW or because I cant commit to more for some reasons...if solo is not appealing, I wont do it. However, if I can commit to a group and the peoples offering a group dont make me puke or smell of incredible noobishness, I will gladly group them rather then solo. And very occasionnally, I will do a few raids, not because I want to be a better grouper or soloer, because I just want to raid and maybe progress in the raiding system(althougth a very casual raider)...now if I need to raid, I dont like it anymore, because it mean that I cant do anything else and I must be waiting rather then playing...
Pre-Kunark...there was no raid and soloer where strongers at level 50 then at level 1...
CoH have just taken the same very first step with Issue 3.
I can either wait 5 years for CoH do undergo all that EQ have and somewhat make full circle, or go back to spam EQ!
EDIT: About EQ2, for me EQ2 and WoW are WORSER then plain old EQ...EQ2 and WoW are casuals friendly, they have no understanding of what a ''hardcore soloer'' want. And sorry to break your bubble, but I have nothing of a casual despite the fact that solo is a key factor for me. See, EQ2 and WoW give everything to the casuals, there is nothing left for the non-casuals. And they repeat the same schema of old EQ, so you must raid and you should group unless you want to take 5 times longer, which mean solo is unrewarding. Casuals need to reach the TOP of what they care, not the TOP of everything, put a level cap on every zone and a gear cap and they are happy, especially if the only way to break those caps are inside the zones with the levels caps(by level cap I mean everyone above say level is bringed to say level, not barred entry). I hardly ever see a casual focus that he need to earn and achieve everything in the game, I hardly ever see a hardcore visiting LoY because he need to see every zones either.
Features that are excluding peoples and opposing gameplays are stone ages features, the MMORPG who will manage to mixt all those gameplays and make everyone happy(everyone see the top of what they care in the activities they do, althought it might prove hard to solo the best solo mob for anyone, even the best soloer, so reaching it or not is not the point, it is the fact that they can HOPE and see it ''near'' and progress close to it at worst). Raid lovers will raid even if raiding dont give solo uberness, but soloers who hate raiding will not raid, which will make players happier and focus on what they like.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
xxx
What you have to take into account is what a delicate balancing act it all is. And if you screw with it too much, you will ruin the game. You have to keep giving people new stuff to do, but you cant just hand it to them on a silver platter. You have to make the challenges harder and harder and harder. You cant tell me that a soler from the kunark era, level 50, take him out from his time and plop him into the current game, he would be able to do so much more than he could have back then. It again comes down to jealousy, now though, yes a raider will have gear that is 3 times better than that soloer... ya well, you work the system and get as good as you can, and be proud of what you can do solo and that you got to where you are solo. (Could you even solo at 50 pre-kunark? After kunark you could, but I think there were like 3 spots you could get exp from pre-kunark, the Allazwesaraus, Lower Guk, and Sol B - non of which seem very solo friendly.)
The simple fact is, if we try and give you your solo content so you can get dope gear equivalent to "raider abilities" of your same level, the raiders wont raid, they will just come kill what you are killing to get the same level of gear. There is no way to differentiat between raiding gear, and solo gear, and when you soloing and when your raiding blah blah blah, nor would I want them to do that. Talk about being on a tight leash.
If you want those kind of restrictions and guidlines and all that, it would be like just going on a ride at disney land, you cant choose what your challenge is, and you end up with the same crap they have in EQ2, with all the mobs labeled "solo, or group" and having the little arrows to really let you know how hard something is.
They'd have to go through a whole re-balancing issue, and you would end up with the vanilla flavor of everyone being the same no matter what they do, which might please you in the short run (since you can be as powerful as an equivalently leveled "raider") but in the long run, it will bore you becuase there will be no diversity, every character will be basically the same thing, race and class meaningless choices.
Personally, I dont want that in my EQ, I want it to stay hard, I want it to stay challenging, and I want to have to keep striving as a soloer, to keep up with the raiders, try not to forget the old saying "Half the fun is getting there"
Also, everyone is stronger at level 50 than at level 1... whether your a naked mage with no malichite or a rogue with no armor and no weapons, you will kick the butt of your level 1 counterpart. So not sure what your trying to say with that part.
The only problem with EQ right now, is that people with less time and the more casual people are leaving for EQlite... er... EQ2. This effects everyone, casuals used to group with hard-cores.. they were all part of the community.
Nah.
Your missing the point.
Solo need it rewards and it high end.
It is about accomplishment, not about jealousy. Myself can be jealous however, but the main trouble is about accomplishment. If a raider get the pooh of a dragon is better then the best thing I can get soloing, then soloing is just not worth it. If raider is better in raiding but weaker in soloing, then all is fine, they can earn solo edges by soloing, and if they dont, well, they just dont care enought about it and they may complain for the sake of it, but the fact is they hardly care since they didnt take the efforts and time to earn it. Think about solo instanced challenges where you cant get any help, where you must solo everything...now we are talking about solo high end!
High end solo content is quite possible. And since it is the only way to keep some peoples online(which open groups and raids options, of course some will decline and keep soloing, yet, they may choose to raid or group rather then be offline, this is your foundation on which you can build everything).
If you give casuals the choice to play a pro-raiders hardcore game or a pro-casual game, they will play the pro-casual game. However, if you would give them the choice to play a game that make no favoritism(not the case of any game atm), they would stick to it, because they would rule in casuals regions and have the option to go in hardcore places and see new challenges and new peoples, which is an attractive option, especially when your RL friends are spreading in the casual/hardcore spectrum.
Like so many person, you are ''exclusive''. You see this or that system must rule. It is a wrong answer and it will divide your player pool. Solo uberness belong to soloers. Casual uberness need to belong to casuals. Hardcore raiders uberness need to belong to hardcore raiders.
You need to specialised the game, so someone wearing the ultimate doomslaying sword from ubahraid, is kinda noobish in Crushbone, he need to go earn his Crushbone edges, which is not long to earn, we are talking about Crushbone, but in this dungeon, he is better with the Emperor loot then with anything else.
It lead to a new problem, which is an incredible amount of loots to have, but you can have many character sheets rather then have to switch, 1 per setting, and they adjust naturally to what you have best for the right zone...I know it is a lot of work for devs, but devs like to work anyway!
Again, if you give a raider better solo gear, then solo is unrewarding and a complete waste of time(althought as an individual I may be jealous, dont focus on this and consider the real stuff at stake), which cannot be allowed to happen if you plan on keeping soloers in the game and then recruit them in your groups or raids. However, while you are grouped, it should be group earned gear, and when you are raiding it should be raid earned gear, for what give the uber stats in those setting. I know many peoples will be initially relectant, but such a system encourage you to do what you like, so I cant see how someone could not be happy in it. Of course everyone want more of the sheep when they are sleeping, but they rather have you hold to your part and remaining there then leaving them the sheet but also leaving the place completely...
Having 50%+ of your players currently soloing and having 2 millions players is having more groupers and raiders then having 5% of them soloing and only 300k players.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Back in 1998-1999 it was stated that Everquest was a GROUPING game and they would not make it so that it would be easier to solo anything. They have done nothing but make EQ easier to play for everyone. This took the fun out of it for most of the old timer EQers.
The "Dumbing" down of Everquest is what made me leave after almost 6 years of play.