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Why Movies Will Be Better Than Games
lethys
Member UncommonPosts: 585
I was at the movies today watching what I think is one of the best sci-fi movies that has ever. The concept was dreamed up by the brilliant Christopher Nolan, the man who is also singlehandedly showing Tim Burton how Batman movies should really be made. The ideas are brilliant in the movie, and I left the theater questioning existence, and all sorts of different things about living in general. The story is incredible and so was the movie. In fact, I felt more involved in the world of Inception that I did in any of the MMO's that I've played in my life.
Which when you think about it, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I am watching others do actions on a screen versus me controlling the actions of someone, essentially taking full control of the character, and yet I feel more a part of the onscreen world than the one that I have a stake in. The reason I feel more involved in the movie world is because the story is so superior to that of the game world, and in reality I have an equal effect on both; none. So my nature is to simply enjoy the one which is better.
In the current way games are made (and I don't mean theme parks vs. sandbox I'll address that in a second) the lore doesn't interest anybody but the most intense and hardcore crowd, yet developers insist that they must have a story which is usually pretty bad, if not downright awful. Inception's story was better, so I was more involved. But games have the potential to allow me, as a person involved, to control the story. This would make me feel involved more than even the best movies. For some reason, no major developer has allowed us to do that.
Now I'm not saying that game shouldn't have a story, I am saying that they should allow for flexibility to control your own fate to a degree. Allow for more meaningful player interaction, even in a Theme Park game this is possible. In a sandbox game, territory control and governing tools are the obvious answer.
But in a theme park game, this starts with interaction between players. First, make some castles like there are in some games already that can be sieged. Make it so that once it has been taken over, there is a week's worth of time in between it being able to be taken again so that the guild that defends has some incentive to defend. If it defends it then it gets to keep it for additional time after the first week. There must be big benefits to the castles being in place. Gaining some sort of PvP rewards currency, like points, for the week and then more for additional time it is held is a start, but there should be certain weapons that can only be made inside one of these fortresses. Not only that but there should be rewards for the more time you hold it so that you really get more urgent to defend it as you go along. After a month you get some permanent spot in one of the cities as an office where you can get even more benefits. There should be a limited number of spots.
So assuming there are 6 castles in an area, then there would be 12 or so spots in the city for the extra city bonus, plus more could be added through patching because the areas themslves, while a limited number of them, would be instanced like housing. There would be alliance systems for the guilds in which the guild in control can grant smaller guilds some benefits of the fortress or all (as many as they choose) to help defend. So they may offer a larger guild a lot of compensation but a smaller guild less. There should be a limit to the number of alliances possible so that there is no single major alliance and everybody is constantly happy. Also a cap on the number of people in a guild so not everyone can just join one major guild.
After that, there should be yet another way of gaining benefits, this time being political power and the ability to tax the server. The developers would put in place a system where alliances battle for control of some sort of artifact, which would lead to the winner being the king. The winning alliance would elect who gets to be king and the other positions. The alliance would be able to tax the entire population (with a max tax). Then the money could be kept for himself in the case of an unjust ruler, or it could be used to provide services to the people and reduce the cost of materials, and allow for more recipes and stuff to be bought for crafting. There could be other positions too, like if not king then maybe make it for a position on a council or something so more guilds can be involved at once.
In addition to ALL of these things there could be a few one time spawned bosses which would require entire alliances, not just guilds, to take down. And all of this could function in a theme park, because the systems would be self rotating and be able to respond accordingly to the different situations which occur. It doesn't need to be sandbox because there could be PVP Zones in which all of this takes place, with PvP servers that are the free for alls. All of this is extremely possible. For the week that the castles can't be attacked it would be instanced castles, But it wouldn't reset, it would be one instance. But the combat which takes place to win the instanced areas would be open. So when the time comes that the castles can be attacked, say it was on Saturdays or something, then the areas would not be instanced, or the fighting simply wouldnt take place in the areas of a castle which were instanced. There would still be open world PvP because of the rewards that could be gained from killing players and there could be more temporary goals to control as well.
The whole thing works. Why don't they do it? Because they want to keep reusing the same ideas that we used since the original Everquest. Movies keep improving, or at least they try to. New 3d, and special affects allow us to do things in movies that 20 years ago couldn't even be dreamed about. Even seven years ago, when the Lord of the Rings movies were made, I remember thinking that I had just seen the most technologically advanced movie ever. That was until I saw Avatar, which was a worse movie than all three of the LotR, but looked better.
The point is that every other form of media is improving. Other video games get increasingly better as multiplayer MMO devs still sit on their hands and wait with no ideas. SWTOR had the potential to be exactly this because of the amount of political stuff in the Star Wars franchise, yet it disappointed and kept the same WoW style. WHY?
To the people who play WoW, stop. The game is the same as it was 3 years ago when I quit. Arena, all this nonsense can be added too but the truth is it doesn't ever change. And the sooner you stop playing, the more urgent Blizz will be to be more creative. And the more creative Blizz is, the more creative the rest of the market will be.
To those of you who simply buy whatever games are pumped out based on hype, such as the people who bought STO day one to find how bad it was even though everyone was saying not to buy it, stop buying garbage. The more you do, the less quickly change will come. To those who like PvE, there would still be raids and stuff like that in this system, but now it would provide every person who wanted to play one type of game with exactly what they wanted. The people who want PvP can PvP, the PvE people could PvE, and the people who want both such as myself could do both.
Comments
I like your ideas and creativity, but I have to disagree with your argument.
Games are barely evolving right now, but who is to say no one will try to redesign the formula? ( I myself look to do this myself, even though it will be extremely difficult ). Might just be my optimistic nature, maybe not.
In my personal opinion, games will end up being better than movies ;p.
Don't let those greedy low lives change the world you want to see, that's my motto.
whenever somebody does, you all complain and whine like a girl.
Darkfall,
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MO
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AoC
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GW1
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Warhammer
=============
much?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Excuse me, but they did not change the formula...
Did they change dumb mobs?
Remove buttom mash combat?
Introduce a dynamic breathing world?
Add player community tools?
Player founded and run cities?
Removal of static quests?
Remove the class system?
They just introduce a few gimmick features, but in no way did they redefine the genre, they are all in the core the same mechanics.
A redefinition of the genre is very difficult, but it is not impossible.
of course games are better than movies, imo at least, games are interactive, movies are not and are highly dependent on acting abilities and plot/scripts.. no matter how good a particular movie is, it will give you, at best, 2 maybe 3 hours of enjoyment.. a good game however, will give you 2 or 3 years at least.. of enjoyment.. bad games/movies however both have something in common.. their dvd's make excellent drinks coasters!
It's real simple. Movies are built to hold you captive for 2 to 3 hours tops. Video games are built to hold you captive for days, months, years, etc depending on the type of game and development cycle i.e. MMO content patches and such.
For this reason, I prefer video games over movies, even though I enjoy both. I spend more of my free time in video games then I do watching movies or t.v. Thereby, video games win the contest.
Neither movies or games will usurp each other any time soon. People will always be in the mood to either sit back and enjoy a story, or get involved in something with a little more interaction. It's like arguing which is better: reading a book or playing chess? Apples and oranges.
Although, I don't quite understand how you could be so enthusiastic about movies, when almost all of them suck so bad nowadays. There are occasional good ones, but Hollywood is completely bankrupt of ideas. I see a lot more quality and creativity coming from games (console games that is...MMOs are dead, except for WoW).
I think OP might be stating that his attention for MMO's is getting to the point where it is rivaling the attention of a feature length film.
I totally agree with this because, I also, am experiencing the same feeling as I spend hours downloading a game just to turn around and uninstall it after two hours due to the cookie cutter design.
The problem is there are no new revolutionary ideas in the world of online gaming right now.
"Yea, I've been drinking again.."
TL;DR but i hope it had some kind of point.
I've yet to see a movie that I could watch several hours a night, several nights a week, for several years... So, yeah... movies have a long way to go.
Unless you count television series. Which I bet someone will make a game based off of soon >.<
"Yea, I've been drinking again.."
There is a game based on television series : http://www.neighbours-from-hell.com/ . And i mean based of the concept of series not a particular series .
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Syfy network is already developing an MMO/TV Series combo, where actions in game can effect what ends up in the series.
i'd like to point out both MO and Darkfall are classless and i know for a fact Darkfall has player founded and run cities...
The AI in Darkfall is also 1 step above the rest as it tries to flank you or gang up on you.
Anyway as far as Films vs Games. One is built to entertain for 2-3 hours the other is built to entertain for 10 times that. To be perfectly honest, if you find films better than games then stop playing games. I think almost every gamer plays games because they find them better than the other forms of entertainment.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
To be honest, I could not read after the faulty reference to Tim Burton's involvement with the Batman movie franchise. Burton directed Batman and Batman Returns - which are far superior than any of the movies made since, including the current rehashes (though, those are obviously better than the garbage that came with the movies after Burton left).
In general, I find the subject somewhat curious - comparing movies and games. In a movie, you are a passenger. Apparently, that is what the majority of people want in their games as well - to be a passenger - to have more of an interactive storytelling session where they click a lot to move on to the next part of the story without having any actual say as to where it is going.
Generally speaking, I've never been satisifed with those kind of games. If I want that kind of entertainment, passive, I'll watch a movie, watch TV, read a book - etc - and thoroughly enjoy it. I prefer games where the player or players actually drive the story - it changes as a result of their actions and they are not shoehorned into some fantasy of being on anything other than a linear progression through some limited flowchart of options.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Really? Tin Burton's versions? I don't think he even read the comics.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
Which comics? You do realize that the Batman comics have changed many times over the years?
Considering the strike during the first film, rewrites, etc - the movie took broad steps in the correct direction. This is sadly all the more evident from the mainstream direction they tried to take the film with Kilmer and Clooney later.
I think the fact that the third movie and on were so atrocious clouds the memory of many folks and that first movie and how good it was at the time. Yes, there was the issue where Jack stole the show - it might have been better to start off with a different villain opposing Keaton to start.
Do I prefer the first Batman movie over the others? Yes, I saw that in the theater at a certain age. It has the nostalgia going for it. It is odd, because I prefer Burton's first to his second and Nolan's second to his first. I would go with Burton's first, Nolan's second, Nolan's first, Burton's second... and then trying to forget the two Schumacher did.
I do not buy in to that typical Burton v. Nolan nonsense. Think everybody can agree Schumacher butchered the franchise. Would have been interesting to see Burton and Keaton further develop the character and myth had Warner Bros. not decided to go Jar Jar, eh?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
This.
And as a side-note, Burton was more capable of capturing the Jokers odd, sadistic, insane-yet-sane sense of humor, and actually succeeded. All Nolan managed was to make the Joker look like a gangster with a bad sense of makeup, and during the first half hour or so, batman look like some moron incapable of handling a van. Remember the whole "I can't turn my head, oh no!"? Why was that suddenly an issue when in the first movie he was perfectly able to move and look about, and even fight ninjas?
It may be a slight bit of nostalgia, as I was a wee lad when I first saw the Nicholson Joker, but at the same time, I'm more likely to believe Jack's Joker compared to the "I'm trying too hard to be edgy and fail, and why are my lips coated in invisible peanut-butter" Heath Joker.
As for the topic itself. Plain and simple opinion, don't try and pull an Ebert, cause you'll fail just as he did. Two different forms of medium, serving completely different purposes within the field of entertainment. One is active, the other is passive. About the closest movies have gotten to games, is those "choose what happens" deals like with the 3rd Final Destination, and the closest to movies games will ever get is, far as I can think of, Heavy Rain (though I guess those old 90s FMV games like Night Trap would count too).
As for the "I can't turn my head", he was obviously trying out a new suit with new hardware.
2 hours of entertainment which cost 200m$ to make in which everyone is experienceing the samething is much easier to make than something which need potential of few thousands hours of entainment, everyone isn't experiencing the samething with only 50m budget.
I dont' think developers have problem coming up with ideas. It's just they can't get it to work. The problem is when they implement an idea, it's usually poorly implemented.
nice wall of text
Scary.
"Yea, I've been drinking again.."
Makes sense Mad, but at the same time, if I found a non-ninja suit, that I could fight and beat ninjas in, I wouldn't change it. Besides the head-turning issue should of been noticed right from the start, specially considering its Batman we are talking about. It shouldn't of taken a wall-check for him to finally realize "Hey this might be a problem".
That, and in the Gotham Knights animated collection that took place between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, I never saw the issue pop up. The only one he did have problems with was the bullet deflection device he tested out.
Books > Movies
And if you're playing a game for the story alone, then you're doing it wrong. Games are not movies and should never be like movies. The attempt to be more like movies is exactly the reason why I can't get into most modern games. I play games to DO something, not watch unskippable cut scenes, wade through textbooks volumes of dialog / flavor text or listen to NPC spew their inner monolog at me throughout my time playing.
BTW, that are built around stories are best when they are segmented into play sessions of 15 minutes to an hour. This makes that game more like watching a season of a TV show. I can play for an hour or I can play the whole thing, but I'm not tied to the fucking console forever or left hanging because I decided to go to work rather than grind through four hours of boredom for the next plot point.
I'm just going to say this right now
Games > Movies > Books > Other forms of media entertainment > Games.
I think OP might be stating that his attention for MMO's is getting to the point where it is rivaling the attention of a feature length film.
I totally agree with this because, I also, am experiencing the same feeling as I spend hours downloading a game just to turn around and uninstall it after two hours due to the cookie cutter design.
The problem is there are no new revolutionary ideas in the world of online gaming right now.
Yeah, but I have had the exact same experience with movies, the bad ones, as well. Ones where I turn it off after 15 minutes of complete crap. So it still boils down to quality over quantity.