MMOs before WOW were buggy, clunky, had bad UIs and controlled poorly. So WoW came along and showed everyone that they could have a standard like single player and normal multiplayer games. WoW has done alot wrong but lets not forget they did so much right.
Yeah like I said, the line between doing your own thing and doing the WoW thing is thin.
Yeah you get the controls down, the UI down, then suddenly you start to do everything like they do.
Or then you do everything differently, and that's no good either. Maybe.
It should be simple....listen to your testers.
If 9 our of 10 people are asking for feature X, and you do not implemented it....you are asking for failure.
This interview suggested that they are of this line of thinking....we are not deliberately trying to clone WoW, however we are listening to our testers.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
pretty good move in saying they dont listen to the wow player .
taking this stance give you more hype and all new mmorpg do that ( or they should , that realy good , lol ) .
but most people know , in the end , you are trying to get the wow subs too .
Verily, it would be great to see FFXIV do very well, with a ton more subs than FFXI currently has, however having the <that other game> subs is great only if the attitude and stupidity that ensues stays over there, and those players become more open to a new style of gameplay with intelligent combat and slower progress.
Having a deep story like XI has, and what SE are promoting with XIV already, just the few CSs we've been privy too alone prove the story is going to be incredible and worth every moment.
If 9 our of 10 people are asking for feature X, and you do not implemented it....you are asking for failure.
This interview suggested that they are of this line of thinking....we are not deliberately trying to clone WoW, however we are listening to our testers.
Yep, this is the best approach indeed.
But now because of that, everything is under construction. Nothing seems to be set in stone yet...
If you read the random comments of the testers, many of them are saying doom & gloom.
Is it because they do not listen... or because they do?
2 months to find out.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
If 9 our of 10 people are asking for feature X, and you do not implemented it....you are asking for failure.
This interview suggested that they are of this line of thinking....we are not deliberately trying to clone WoW, however we are listening to our testers.
Yep, this is the best approach indeed.
But now because of that, everything is under construction. Nothing seems to be set in stone yet...
If you read the random comments of the testers, many of them are saying doom & gloom.
Is it because they do not listen... or because they do?
2 months to find out.
It is not easy to be a game devolper, because you have all kind of different players with different likes and dislike.
Anyway, the one thing I am most interested in is the story, and that is one thing I know they do right. I also love the character design, which also is important. The world seem to look beautiful.
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by Mellow44 I feel sorry for you if the only online game that you can refer to is WoW and I think that you have actually ruined your own parade.
I can refer to DAoC too, but most people are more familiar with WoW. Whatever man, lol. When I read about the all-classes-in-one-toon, I would compare it to Horizons (Istaria). This game had 11 races (Dragons, Satyrs, Dryads...), 50 adventuring and crafting classes, where you could build up your house in the actual world. Sadly that game flopped like Vanguard. Not many knew about this game and the release was sh...
When I read about the all-classes-in-one-toon, I would compare it to Horizons (Istaria).
This game had 11 races (Dragons, Satyrs, Dryads...), 50 adventuring and crafting classes, where you could build up your house in the actual world.
Sadly that game flopped like Vanguard. Not many knew about this game and the release was sh...
Horizons had a lot of promises behind its hype and pretty much didn't live up to a single one of them. I've never played WoW or FFXI. I am somewhat interested in XIV, but only if we get some more information and after playing the beta will I know for sure.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
There is something about FFXI and SE that made me a loyal fan for over 5 years, and this interview kind of sums it up. They make games for their fans, they stick to their plan and continue to address their fans, and I have complete faith in them to make their style of game everytime.
Compare this to any other company in this genre. SOE consistently burns existing fans and veterans at the hope to draw in new players. They even have tests of their games by people who have never played, and some who have never played MMO's and take their feedback over veterans. Mythic sells out their originality by trying to be more like WoW and look where that got them. Trion decides to make a brand new MMO with an insane budget and what do they do? Try to copy WoW. In an industry as stale, stagnant, and boring as this one due to these companies lacking any sense of originality SE is a breath of fresh air.
If you read the random comments of the testers, many of them are saying doom & gloom.
Is it because they do not listen... or because they do?
2 months to find out.
Most of them aren't beta testers plain and simple. They want a full finished game in development for 5+ years, and they don't even know the focus of the testing.
Hyanmen I am kind of dissapointed in your posts in this thread. Developers don't have to do anything the WoW way or not the WoW way. If they do things their own way, especially SE with the still strong subs of FFXI, then they will be fine. It is when they sacrifice originality and creativity out of greed that they fail like almost every game to come since WoW.
FFXI did not start out even how it was for NA launch. It was developed as a solid core and built upon steadily with it's fans in mind, and not another games fanbase or the ability to steal it away.
Personally I hope they take the WOW control scheme, just because ease of use increases enjoyment . Whilst I'm intrigued by learning new classes, skill setups etc. learning how not to make the camera do a 360 degree waltz above my character's head like some demonic halo does not appeal. The control scheme was what put me off ffXI. Everything else about 14 seems fantastic (love the job setup and focus on crafting), but I think they need to be careful having both an unusual UI and high system specs. Each one allienates some customers, put together you start to rule out a lot of potential players.
Hyanmen I am kind of dissapointed in your posts in this thread. Developers don't have to do anything the WoW way or not the WoW way. If they do things their own way, especially SE with the still strong subs of FFXI, then they will be fine. It is when they sacrifice originality and creativity out of greed that they fail like almost every game to come since WoW.
FFXI did not start out even how it was for NA launch. It was developed as a solid core and built upon steadily with it's fans in mind, and not another games fanbase or the ability to steal it away.
Of course they don't, but when it comes to controls I'd like to see as many options as possible. Those shouldn't be a reason to not play a game. And it's hard to make something different that is at least almost as good as WoW's control scheme.
When it comes to game mechanics, I don't think there's any reason to copy any game for those.
It was funny when I read some of the comments and one guy said "so I accepted a quest that told me to go to a crystal nearby... and when I went there, I got NO REWARD for doing it! And then it gave me an option to CONTINUE THE QUEST! WTF".
Is the community so pathetic nowadays? Jesus christ.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Everyone seems to be having a problem with the controls, even FFXI players. According to some of the reports I've read the controls don't even work as well as FFXI, currently. So I really think that's the underlying problem.
Not that the controls aren't exactly like WoW, but just that they suck in general.
I'm sure they will be fixed, and if not, well, then SE has no one to blame but themselves.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Luckily SE is making a game for its current fans, and not for fans of a game that can be played from min to max by any 4-99 year old with at least one hand.
I will and have always played FF XI/XIV with a controller so i'm not the best on the issue with controls. Honestly I much prefer the steady and loyal population of FFXI over the bloated and ridiculous population of WoW so if little things turn people away that is fine with me. WoW has far too many fans for it's own good. FFXI has progressed at an almost perfect pace in my mind and I kind of hope for a similar player base with more casual old players returning.
Still I hope they develop some satisfying controls for the guys who don't like them.
I've been a huge Final Fantasy fan since Final Fantasy 2 (or FF4 for japan) on the SNES and i've played WOW from 2004 to 2009. I was not a MMO player when FFXI released because i couldn't understand why people were paying monthly fees to play a game back then. I became a MMO player with WOW in 2004 and i've finished every single FF game except FFXI. So even if i never played FFXI, i think i should be consider a loyal fan. I don't want FFIV to be like WOW, i want it to be different but the controls and UI of FFXI was unplayable for me. So i think that they should at least consider the feedbacks about controls and UI. We are now in 2010 and i don't think controlling your character should be so hard.
Having as many control options as possible and fluid combat does not a WoW clone make.
I've said this on another forum, but i believe that hardcore WoW and FFXI players are more similar to each other than they care to admit. Just hopping back and forth on my vent between the 2 games, i find it funny how much they seem to hate the other. We all need to get over ourselves and realize that both games do certain things well.
I'll take fluid gameplay + controls and mix it with a solid community revolving around grouping any day.
The two should not be mutually exclusive and should not be considered pandering to the masses.
I think we can all appreciate that cars do not all look the same....After all, we are not all the same people, and are cars can help reflect this..
However, I think we can all appreciate why each car has a steering wheel and pedals that pretty much all work the same...meaning if you can drive one car, you can probably drive them all. Sure, some might have different cruise control, etc....but they don't replace the steering wheel with a Trac-Ball in the middle of the dash.
Most people who play MMORPGs today have certain expectations when they sit down to play, as far as how they will start controlling their toon. One hand typically goes for the mouse, the other for the WASD on the Keyboard.
Hey, if SE wants to put a Trac-Ball in their Dash, that's their business. But I promise a lot fewer people will drive that lemon off the lot.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
Originally posted by Mellow44 What WoW thing? Did Blizzard invent the MMORPGs? Using a sword to hack at the mobs = WoW clone? WoW this and WoW that shut the fuck up about WoW already.
That's how it is, sorry to ruin your parade.
MMOs before WOW were buggy, clunky, had bad UIs and controlled poorly. So WoW came along and showed everyone that they could have a standard like single player and normal multiplayer games. WoW has done alot wrong but lets not forget they did so much right.
Actually WoW has large number of bugs and server issues on launch. They have also changed their classes beyond recognition and with there latest expansion redoing there original game world. I think part of the reason WoW did so well is due to large numbers of Western players getting high speed broadband around 2004/5 and looking for an online experience and WoW just happened to be the best thing around. 2010 now and people are looking for next gen mmos, retro mmo, f2p mmo, and a minority even want full Loot PvP Pker paradises. I am happily going to play XIV, hopefully SWTOR next year, and maybe even try WoW for retro if Blizz role out some servers for cataclysm.
Its simple really, they should have 3 control schemes ready for launch:
Control Pad - for those weirdos that actually prefer gamepads on PC ... all 2 of them.
Classic Controls - FFXIs control scheme or as close possible match, for the FFXI veterans.
Modern Controls - As close to WoW as possible, for those that actual like smooth, nice and accessible controls.
IS that too much to ask for? other than performance it the number one complaint as it stands. Its not a "WoW-Clone" just for copying controls, whats best is best, I want the content and mechanics to be different, not the controls.
Comments
It should be simple....listen to your testers.
If 9 our of 10 people are asking for feature X, and you do not implemented it....you are asking for failure.
This interview suggested that they are of this line of thinking....we are not deliberately trying to clone WoW, however we are listening to our testers.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Verily, it would be great to see FFXIV do very well, with a ton more subs than FFXI currently has, however having the <that other game> subs is great only if the attitude and stupidity that ensues stays over there, and those players become more open to a new style of gameplay with intelligent combat and slower progress.
Having a deep story like XI has, and what SE are promoting with XIV already, just the few CSs we've been privy too alone prove the story is going to be incredible and worth every moment.
Yep, this is the best approach indeed.
But now because of that, everything is under construction. Nothing seems to be set in stone yet...
If you read the random comments of the testers, many of them are saying doom & gloom.
Is it because they do not listen... or because they do?
2 months to find out.
I agree 100%
same goes for if they decide to pander to wow players and have no controler for PC.
I played WOW and have a 72 priest, I never made it to 80 because I dint like the graphic or storyline anymore.
It is not easy to be a game devolper, because you have all kind of different players with different likes and dislike.
Anyway, the one thing I am most interested in is the story, and that is one thing I know they do right. I also love the character design, which also is important. The world seem to look beautiful.
The rest is wait and see.
When I read about the all-classes-in-one-toon, I would compare it to Horizons (Istaria).
This game had 11 races (Dragons, Satyrs, Dryads...), 50 adventuring and crafting classes, where you could build up your house in the actual world.
Sadly that game flopped like Vanguard.
Horizons had a lot of promises behind its hype and pretty much didn't live up to a single one of them. I've never played WoW or FFXI. I am somewhat interested in XIV, but only if we get some more information and after playing the beta will I know for sure.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
There is something about FFXI and SE that made me a loyal fan for over 5 years, and this interview kind of sums it up. They make games for their fans, they stick to their plan and continue to address their fans, and I have complete faith in them to make their style of game everytime.
Compare this to any other company in this genre. SOE consistently burns existing fans and veterans at the hope to draw in new players. They even have tests of their games by people who have never played, and some who have never played MMO's and take their feedback over veterans. Mythic sells out their originality by trying to be more like WoW and look where that got them. Trion decides to make a brand new MMO with an insane budget and what do they do? Try to copy WoW. In an industry as stale, stagnant, and boring as this one due to these companies lacking any sense of originality SE is a breath of fresh air.
Most of them aren't beta testers plain and simple. They want a full finished game in development for 5+ years, and they don't even know the focus of the testing.
Hyanmen I am kind of dissapointed in your posts in this thread. Developers don't have to do anything the WoW way or not the WoW way. If they do things their own way, especially SE with the still strong subs of FFXI, then they will be fine. It is when they sacrifice originality and creativity out of greed that they fail like almost every game to come since WoW.
FFXI did not start out even how it was for NA launch. It was developed as a solid core and built upon steadily with it's fans in mind, and not another games fanbase or the ability to steal it away.
Personally I hope they take the WOW control scheme, just because ease of use increases enjoyment . Whilst I'm intrigued by learning new classes, skill setups etc. learning how not to make the camera do a 360 degree waltz above my character's head like some demonic halo does not appeal. The control scheme was what put me off ffXI. Everything else about 14 seems fantastic (love the job setup and focus on crafting), but I think they need to be careful having both an unusual UI and high system specs. Each one allienates some customers, put together you start to rule out a lot of potential players.
Of course they don't, but when it comes to controls I'd like to see as many options as possible. Those shouldn't be a reason to not play a game. And it's hard to make something different that is at least almost as good as WoW's control scheme.
When it comes to game mechanics, I don't think there's any reason to copy any game for those.
It was funny when I read some of the comments and one guy said "so I accepted a quest that told me to go to a crystal nearby... and when I went there, I got NO REWARD for doing it! And then it gave me an option to CONTINUE THE QUEST! WTF".
Is the community so pathetic nowadays? Jesus christ.
Yes.
----------------
Everyone seems to be having a problem with the controls, even FFXI players. According to some of the reports I've read the controls don't even work as well as FFXI, currently. So I really think that's the underlying problem.
Not that the controls aren't exactly like WoW, but just that they suck in general.
I'm sure they will be fixed, and if not, well, then SE has no one to blame but themselves.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Luckily SE is making a game for its current fans, and not for fans of a game that can be played from min to max by any 4-99 year old with at least one hand.
I will and have always played FF XI/XIV with a controller so i'm not the best on the issue with controls. Honestly I much prefer the steady and loyal population of FFXI over the bloated and ridiculous population of WoW so if little things turn people away that is fine with me. WoW has far too many fans for it's own good. FFXI has progressed at an almost perfect pace in my mind and I kind of hope for a similar player base with more casual old players returning.
Still I hope they develop some satisfying controls for the guys who don't like them.
I've been a huge Final Fantasy fan since Final Fantasy 2 (or FF4 for japan) on the SNES and i've played WOW from 2004 to 2009. I was not a MMO player when FFXI released because i couldn't understand why people were paying monthly fees to play a game back then. I became a MMO player with WOW in 2004 and i've finished every single FF game except FFXI. So even if i never played FFXI, i think i should be consider a loyal fan. I don't want FFIV to be like WOW, i want it to be different but the controls and UI of FFXI was unplayable for me. So i think that they should at least consider the feedbacks about controls and UI. We are now in 2010 and i don't think controlling your character should be so hard.
Having as many control options as possible and fluid combat does not a WoW clone make.
I've said this on another forum, but i believe that hardcore WoW and FFXI players are more similar to each other than they care to admit. Just hopping back and forth on my vent between the 2 games, i find it funny how much they seem to hate the other. We all need to get over ourselves and realize that both games do certain things well.
I'll take fluid gameplay + controls and mix it with a solid community revolving around grouping any day.
The two should not be mutually exclusive and should not be considered pandering to the masses.
Originality has its place.
I think we can all appreciate that cars do not all look the same....After all, we are not all the same people, and are cars can help reflect this..
However, I think we can all appreciate why each car has a steering wheel and pedals that pretty much all work the same...meaning if you can drive one car, you can probably drive them all. Sure, some might have different cruise control, etc....but they don't replace the steering wheel with a Trac-Ball in the middle of the dash.
Most people who play MMORPGs today have certain expectations when they sit down to play, as far as how they will start controlling their toon. One hand typically goes for the mouse, the other for the WASD on the Keyboard.
Hey, if SE wants to put a Trac-Ball in their Dash, that's their business. But I promise a lot fewer people will drive that lemon off the lot.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
That's how it is, sorry to ruin your parade.
MMOs before WOW were buggy, clunky, had bad UIs and controlled poorly. So WoW came along and showed everyone that they could have a standard like single player and normal multiplayer games. WoW has done alot wrong but lets not forget they did so much right.
Actually WoW has large number of bugs and server issues on launch. They have also changed their classes beyond recognition and with there latest expansion redoing there original game world. I think part of the reason WoW did so well is due to large numbers of Western players getting high speed broadband around 2004/5 and looking for an online experience and WoW just happened to be the best thing around. 2010 now and people are looking for next gen mmos, retro mmo, f2p mmo, and a minority even want full Loot PvP Pker paradises. I am happily going to play XIV, hopefully SWTOR next year, and maybe even try WoW for retro if Blizz role out some servers for cataclysm.Its simple really, they should have 3 control schemes ready for launch:
Control Pad - for those weirdos that actually prefer gamepads on PC ... all 2 of them.
Classic Controls - FFXIs control scheme or as close possible match, for the FFXI veterans.
Modern Controls - As close to WoW as possible, for those that actual like smooth, nice and accessible controls.
IS that too much to ask for? other than performance it the number one complaint as it stands. Its not a "WoW-Clone" just for copying controls, whats best is best, I want the content and mechanics to be different, not the controls.
I like SE, this company has always marched to the beat of their own drum.
nice post.