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the two criticisms of TOR
The criticisms of TOR have become a broken record. Apparently, it will be WoW with a sub and (at the same time) a single player RPG with lightsabers. Oh wait... other way around... but you get the idea. The thing is, setting aside the conflict between those complaints, neither bothers me at all if they turn out to be accurate.
I enjoy MMOs because it means I can play with others when I am in the mood to, and sometimes that means meeting people that I genuinely enjoy playing with, people from all over the world and that is pretty special. Having said THAT, 90% of the time grouping is a freaking NIGHTMARE. I'm grouping a lot in DDO at present and omg it is a race to the finish and people DELIBERATELY go for dungeons and difficulty levels that mean you don't actually need to group, or pause, or talk. I think mostly they want an audience for their pure awesomeness.
WoW with lightsabers... well, I tried WoW very late, but I was sincerely impressed by Vanilla WoW - it was polished and fun and on the whole a decent fantasy world (note the emphasis on Vanilla... at level 67 I quit). The itemisation and questing was quite fun, but the overall obsession with gear was bad.
Anyhoo, I am particularly looking forward to being able to play and progress at my own pace, group *only* when I'd genuinely like to and hopefully meet some like-minded people in TOR.
What about you?
Comments
I think if either of those fears become reality then I think this game will be a short lived bubble that will burst in a few months.
If the game turns out to be little more than a single player game, people will solve it and move on. Maybe trying a few different classes to see some bends and twists in the storyline, but eventually the shine will wear off.
If it turns out to be wow dressed in star wars clothing, it had better offer something new or people will just leave. If people want to play wow they will just play wow. I think the market has grown tired of getting handed a quest and running to a location to kill/collect a dozen things. If the game does little more than emulate wow, then it had better release is near perfect condition, because again, players are not going to wait around for a game to get fixed, polished, balanced and working when they can get the same thing in another game.
I hope neither fear becomes true, but right now I can't say they won't.
I believe with the current tests and the leaks I saw about the game and all the infos we recently got. From the fact the game will be very open world (90%) and how the combat system is, those two fears shouldn't even exist anymore...
<a href="http://www.enjin.com/"; alt="swtor guild hosting"><img src="http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/23d3ae4fb19b441f.png"></a>;
Yes, but you forgot the "with lightsabers" bit.
Seriously, I understand where you are coming from. I'm not sure I really care though because I think I will enjoy it for 6-12 months at least; it will take that long for me to get through the 2-3 classes I want to play through. I loved LOTRO:SoA, and that isn't wildly WoW-numbers popular.
What I want to know is how YOU as individuals feel about the criticisms, NOT your guesses about how you think the multitudes will react to it.
I think as valid arguments it makes no sense, seems to me it's just that people didn't like the accent on storytelling and they didn't like the graphics, and those were foundation enough to dismiss the game in their eyes, vague argumentation followed later:
- SW:ToR looks cartoony => SW:ToR = WoW clone (and that meant in a negative sense)
- SW:ToR will have expanded storytelling => SW:ToR will be a singleplayer game with some MMO features.
That's the kind of thinking in some people's heads: when that idea has settled firmly in their minds, any piece of information that follows that confirms that idea will only strengthen their belief that SW:ToR will be exactly as their gut feeling told them initially. Arguments that contradict that belief or conviction will be dismissed as being 'hype' or 'fanboi posting', and people will refer to the last few years where all MMO's failed to live up to their hype.
Rationally speaking, it doesn't make sense Bioware NOT making a MMO of SW:ToR with all the features you might expect.
That SW:ToR will not revolutionize the MMO market is clear, but the upcoming months when more and more information and features will be revealed will I think indicate that SW:ToR has its own identity and flavor.
Of course, you'll always have people crying wolf - or 'WoW clone' in this case - but that's just their way of saying 'not a game I want or like to play'.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
These are fears? Those are both good things that worked in the past. The only bad thing I can see is if the two don't meld well. As for likeness to wow, whether or not you like wow depends on a few things: Whether or not you have friends on it (RL or Internet friends), Whether you like to do anything in it, PvP/PvE/RP. PvE before end-game is never something people like to do, its a necessity. That's why people level with friends it's company for the level-grind. Or at least it is once you've done it once.
The key to not becoming a level grind is to make leveling up fun and rewarding. Then they face the problem of how, easiest and most obvious solution is money and gear (and abilities) but then it's "gear-oriented" but it would be. Unless they produce a system that enables them to give you another type of point to reward you in a different way.
Ultimately you want your character to get more powerful and striving for that is what makes any game fun. I am always thinking "I can't wait until I get..." I always have a goal, but if you're not bothered by anything, if you don't have anything to strive for then MMOs aren't for you end-of MMOs require you to want to grow in skill, power, level, rank and whatever. And its supposed to be enjoyable on your way to getting there and rewarding when you do.
"Become like WoW" Is everything any MMO wants to hear, second only to "WoW-killer" But it's down to us the community to tell them what we don't like about WoW. Their target is to steal WoW's thunder, it's uniqueness, but it's also to be popular in its own right. It's already pre-stealing RPers from WoW from words of moral decisions. If they want to overcome WoW they need to listen to what its weaknesses are. If you don't tell them precisely what those are, they can't help. And no, yelling "Gear" and "WoW-like" doesn't help. WoW is one of the strongest MMOs in the market (or used to be).
One of the strongest things this MMO could do would be to recreate KOTOR in MMO form, which I think is what they're trying to do. They're trying to capture the essence of it. You'll never get away from the quest genres, because ANYTHING you do in a game falls into one of those categories. "Go there to- explore/find/capture/kill/collect" You're missing the point it's the fact that there is no real challenge. You go there and basically rotate your standard rotation, kill it and walk back. The best thing SWTOR could do is to say instead "There's someone in that base I want you to kill" You march into that base with your NPC companions or friends or whatever, fight your way there through locked doors and all sorts of obstacles. You get there, just to find your target fleeing in a shuttle. It's the same basic quest, but in such a way that is stops being a quest and becomes a mission. We need missions that have a beginning, a middle and an end and a plot line or twists, something to get involved in. But the more people you have the harder it is to make a game you can get emersed in.
These aren't fears, part of them are fears, part of them are the solutions to the fears.
I feel pretty much the same way that I think the masses will react. Perhaps that is coloring my outlook of things.
If either of those two complaints you mention become reality I am certain I will not enjoy the old republic. Based on what I have seen so far I think there is a good possibility of those concerns become reality.
Where you enjoyed lotro, I found it to play nearly identical to wow and found little reason to continue playing it past a certain introductory point. It just didn't offer me an experience that I was not getting somewhere else. Pasting a new IP on top of the same gameplay didn't really work for me and I think that is why lotro never really took off.
If the old republic turns out to be heavily focused on following the main storlyline as a quasi single player rpg, I doubt I will stick around long. While the story sounds cools and all, I just don't see myself being limited in movement based on where I am in a certain storyline. Perhaps that is why I grow bored in single players games so quickly. Going from point 1 to point 2, point 2 to point 3 in a predetermined set of actions doesn't really feel like I am playing a game or in control of anything. There is just something that I find limiting in computer games that doesn't translate into a great story.
Having a big open world doesn't mean much if everything is focused on one well beaten path that everyone follows. If you know what I mean.
- Open PvE world, like a single-lpayer game.
- Heavy single-player style cinematics.
- Heavily instanced player vs player redundant interactive game-play.
- Static instances.
- Cartooney adolescent graphics.
- Lack of non-combat characters.
- No community-driven crafting, merchandising, or economy.
- No massively multiplayer community game-play, yet lobby-system team style.
- No Star Wars in Star Wars.
- Cookie-cutter holy trinity characters.
- No meaningful death penalty where losers are rewarded with npc hand-out entitlements for losing.
In essence a KOTOR 3, single-player lobby system type game by which your paying an extra $15/month while with other single-player games with a multiplayer cooperative mode, your not.
Seems like you've already played the final game or you're a fortuneteller.
You must have, since you describe things that aren't known yet as if the game has been out for months now.
Now this is exactly what I meant: predictions with little deeper thought behind it, but just gut feelings. Will be fun to quote people like that when the game has been launched.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
So MMO players don't want MMOs.
All MMOs are going to be like WoW, just as they're like EQ, or like.. Anything. That comparison is always simple and it comes from people who lack the ability to truly concieve notions into something coherent. Sadly that's true about everything. From research annotations to the top 3 American Idol contestants.
That aside. If SWG is WoW-ish, then it's MMO-ish and that should be what a triple A mmorpg title is. WoW isn't some conspiracy, FFXIV GW2 whatever else coming down the pipe that can be considered a MMORPG is going to be like other MMORPGs. Changing your preferred genre is simple, quit looking at details for upcoming MMORPGs if you're a sad panda that your chosen MMORPG is going to be a MMORPG.
What I do like about SWG is that it's offering a bit more. There's the typical stuff a lot of people are bored with and a new element with the single player game. WoW doesn't have this. It has soloable content, but nothing really super deep.
I believe we're getting a nice polished hybrid of Bioware's take on a MMORPG. Plus I think it'll be the mmo that LucasArts wanted to see made.
I think above all else the setting will be it's biggest detractor. The scifi guns and lasers mmorpgs sort of have a built in flaw in that you're going to be standing toe to toe Rockn' Sock'em robot style blasting each other in the face for several moments until someone's healer goes 'oom' or whatever chosen point system is in play.
That's my only real gripe.
We'll get sandbox games soon enough. Generation 4.5 still has some games it'll spit out until we get to 4.8 and someone is brave enough to spit out a game that many people think they want.
When the dust settles from that we'll move on to the 5th gen, but we're a good decade away from that.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
from the trailers and leeks i've seen sw:tor looks good.
not at one point has it reminded me of wow,
yes it's 3rd person style .. so are most mmo's
it has some features from wow but being wow is the biggist selling mmo out there i don't blame them for taking some stuff.
star wars is sci-fi not fantasy like wow
and considering the little amount of info we have about the game currently and you get dummies who say they won;t play because it's wow ... thats their loss.
in time they may hopefully see the error of their ways and stop comparing a sci-fi to a fantasy game .. "oh my gun does more damage than your magical fireball" how the £$%^ can you compare magic to tech :P
"waddle Waddle"