Not true. They said there would be player owned shops, offices, clubs(with mini-games) and most likely casinos for gambling and player owned apartments that we'll be able to customize. Also conference rooms where corp members can gather and have meetings and market monitor boards we can watch in real time. Also, it may not happen in this first update, but eventually there will be avatar combat added and the ability to land on planets and explore. There will be plenty to do.
I hate to rain on your parade but "CCP said" has been a pretty poor indicator of feature availability of late.
Well of course.
They don't just say they're doing something and finish it right away.
It takes a while to get it out there. They are more open about the process than most companies. Blizzard, for example, will tell you about things as they are more than 60% of the way done with most of the things releasing. CCP pretty much tells you what they're thinking about as it comes off the idea-board and they know they want to do it.
This of course has it's ups and downs. Like things not coming out for a very long time, but so far, what they have said they wanted to do has been done and/or is in the process of being done within the next year or so.
Maybe it's frustrating when you have to wait for such a long time, but I like to know what they are doing with the game I have invested in ahead of time. So I like it, anyway.
Not true. They said there would be player owned shops, offices, clubs(with mini-games) and most likely casinos for gambling and player owned apartments that we'll be able to customize. Also conference rooms where corp members can gather and have meetings and market monitor boards we can watch in real time. Also, it may not happen in this first update, but eventually there will be avatar combat added and the ability to land on planets and explore. There will be plenty to do.
I hate to rain on your parade but "CCP said" has been a pretty poor indicator of feature availability of late.
Well of course.
They don't just say they're doing something and finish it right away.
Or, indeed, ever. *cough* Faction Warfare *cough* Treaties *cough* atmospheric flight *cough* map rooms *cough* too many to list.
All I'm saying is, going on their record of the last couple of years, dont get your hopes up too high.
Not true. They said there would be player owned shops, offices, clubs(with mini-games) and most likely casinos for gambling and player owned apartments that we'll be able to customize. Also conference rooms where corp members can gather and have meetings and market monitor boards we can watch in real time. Also, it may not happen in this first update, but eventually there will be avatar combat added and the ability to land on planets and explore. There will be plenty to do.
I hate to rain on your parade but "CCP said" has been a pretty poor indicator of feature availability of late.
Well of course.
They don't just say they're doing something and finish it right away.
Or, indeed, ever. *cough* Faction Warfare *cough* Treaties *cough* atmospheric flight *cough* map rooms *cough* too many to list.
All I'm saying is, going on their record of the last couple of years, dont get your hopes up too high.
Faction warfare is already in, I never heard them mention treaties (not saying they didn't though), atmospheric flight is coming out once they get bigger projects like incarna done and will go along with planetary interaction which they have released, map rooms are coming out in incarna. Anything else?
Incarna will bring a whole new world added into EVE: The world of human entities and not just of spaceships! It will be the super expansion of its time when its launched! Finally people will be able to walk and talk. Socialize in their avatar forms, and in time when CCP starts adding to it - just as they now have been for 7 years adding things to their spacegame - it will develope into something that the players can find challenges in and not just for sosializing. Terraforming maybe? first step for planetary inhabitation? Theres simply no limits to where this in the end can take us! We will - finally be a complete sci-fi universe in all aspects!
I simply cant wait for Incarna to come! The estimates for its launch is not yet known. What we do know is we will get a small part of Incarna this year coming with the winter expansion, while its major part set for later. Most likely in the spring or winter expansion 2011.
Yes, we have exiting times in front of us indeed!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't really care about Incarna. All you will be able to do is walk about in bars and offices, those that think you will be able to run around a space station shooting people in the face are going to be disapointed. CCP have already stated this wont happen.
As for Dust 514 I will take a look at it when it comes out but I like the space side of things. And where my character is at the moment.
I don't think CCP is not really doing Incarna for the existing playerbase, they are trying to add something to the game that will attract others. Let's face it, growing the playerbase is the aim of most companies, it allows them to expand the game with the increased income.
So I think the existing players need to be patient while CCP adds this feature. More people playing means they can add and fix other things that existing players want once Incarna is in place. There are no major issues they are ignoring atm.
I just think the existing playerbase is making a mountain out of a molehill with their complaints.
I've said it before - all Incarna is going to do is bring the universe of Eve closer to an AOL-style community service. You'll see more people spending time on-station doing things like social chats, stalking, spamming, scamming, and plenty of other things, rather than engulfing themselves into the "space" aspect of the what this game has been about. Of course, we're all going to need to be able to "dye" our outfits to our liking, and have tattoos and piercings, and be able to make our avatars do funky dances while we're just standing around in a empty hall-way ... the fan base is going to make stuff like that a mandatory thing that CCP will have to work on, among many others. So CCP will find that, in order to keep its fan-base growing, or at least keep the current members from dropping out, they're going to have dedicate more of their time and resources to address the fan-base's requests on making the in-station aspect more sociable and to their liking - so good-bye space, planet, POS, outer rim developments, etc.
This move to incorporate a more "human" aspect to the game (Incarna, in part) has some of us wondering if CCP hasn't just gotten tired of keeping this thing going - so they're trying to prop it up a little bit more before they sell off the "fanchise" to some third-party company who will take it over - and who know what it will become once that happens. This is, after all, what many companies do with their products so that they can free up their resources to go on to other projects - been there, done that.
And of course, for those that are feverishly dropping everything they're doing to quickly respond to my posting and flame me - of course CCP has NOT mentioned possible plans, or any pre-conceived notions to sell off the "franchise" - are you kidding me? This would obviously be a very closely guarded idea and, in its early stages of discussion, limited to the most senior members of the company. Obviously, if such plans existed and were leaked out, it would mean a mass exodus of the player base and therefore make it a worthless product to sell.
Just spend a little bit of that "dreamer" and "fantasy-world" brain-power you have to "explore" the reasons on why there are many issues in the game that could use some real devotion to fixing but, instead, they're working on opening up the game to a more social, human environment?
I don't think CCP is not really doing Incarna for the existing playerbase, they are trying to add something to the game that will attract others. Let's face it, growing the playerbase is the aim of most companies, it allows them to expand the game with the increased income.
So I think the existing players need to be patient while CCP adds this feature. More people playing means they can add and fix other things that existing players want once Incarna is in place. There are no major issues they are ignoring atm.
I just think the existing playerbase is making a mountain out of a molehill with their complaints.
They are ofcource making this to attract more and new players. There are plenty people out there after all who dont want to play EVE because of lack in player character. But there are also plenty people who currently play EVE too who dearly wants it! I just being one of them!
I don't think CCP is not really doing Incarna for the existing playerbase, they are trying to add something to the game that will attract others. Let's face it, growing the playerbase is the aim of most companies, it allows them to expand the game with the increased income.
So I think the existing players need to be patient while CCP adds this feature. More people playing means they can add and fix other things that existing players want once Incarna is in place. There are no major issues they are ignoring atm.
I just think the existing playerbase is making a mountain out of a molehill with their complaints.
They are ofcource making this to attract more and new players. There are plenty people out there after all who dont want to play EVE because of lack in player character. But there are also plenty people who currently play EVE too who dearly wants it! I just being one of them!
I can't wait for the expansion and I play Eve on a regular basis. The potential for the future additions from this is insane. All new kinds of alternate ways to enhance your character via different jobs, not to mention one the basics of the walking and such are in-game this could easily be expanded to allow people to land on planets and explore them, ect.
I look at this expansion as just the first of what could be some great additions to the game. Just like when Eve originally launch it was for the most part just the core of the game. Well this is just the core of having actual physical characters in the game and could / can be expanded upon very easily. Imagine the potential (distant future) of being able to board other players ships during combat and shutting down different systems, ect. It could open the door for multiple players being on one ship and such. While this may not be there current plans for this expansion, it's always a possibility once this core foundation is layed.
I can't wait for the expansion and I play Eve on a regular basis. The potential for the future additions from this is insane. All new kinds of alternate ways to enhance your character via different jobs, not to mention one the basics of the walking and such are in-game this could easily be expanded to allow people to land on planets and explore them, ect.
Do you understand the lore and mechanics in regard to being a capsuleer?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
This move to incorporate a more "human" aspect to the game (Incarna, in part) has some of us wondering if CCP hasn't just gotten tired of keeping this thing going - so they're trying to prop it up a little bit more before they sell off the "fanchise" to some third-party company who will take it over - and who know what it will become once that happens. This is, after all, what many companies do with their products so that they can free up their resources to go on to other projects - been there, done that.
And of course, for those that are feverishly dropping everything they're doing to quickly respond to my posting and flame me - of course CCP has NOT mentioned possible plans, or any pre-conceived notions to sell off the "franchise" - are you kidding me? This would obviously be a very closely guarded idea and, in its early stages of discussion, limited to the most senior members of the company. Obviously, if such plans existed and were leaked out, it would mean a mass exodus of the player base and therefore make it a worthless product to sell.
Just spend a little bit of that "dreamer" and "fantasy-world" brain-power you have to "explore" the reasons on why there are many issues in the game that could use some real devotion to fixing but, instead, they're working on opening up the game to a more social, human environment?
"Live long and prosper"
You are now putting out Conspiracy theories as to why they are implimenting Walking in stations?
Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? The theory that the correct answer is normally the simpliest one.
How about instead of CCP wanting to sell the company (Which has been growing exponentially, with thousands of new accounts a year), they just want to reach out to a broader fanbase?
Everyone also acts like the patch that has walking in stations will just be that, use common sense! They never release a patch that is just one aspect or feature, they normally release with multiple features put in and smaller patch notes.
Its funny how everyone likes to think of how EVE players are so "Hardcore" for gamers, yet you have a bunch of them getting so upset over not getting enough attention from the developers. I understand the need to voice your concerns, and i dont think that should stop.
But coming on here and writing up a bunch of conspiracy theories like "They are going to sell off the company" because of WIS is laughable.
I can't wait for the expansion and I play Eve on a regular basis. The potential for the future additions from this is insane. All new kinds of alternate ways to enhance your character via different jobs, not to mention one the basics of the walking and such are in-game this could easily be expanded to allow people to land on planets and explore them, ect.
Do you understand the lore and mechanics in regard to being a capsuleer?
Yes, but on the same token nowhere does it state that multiple people could not be allowed on these MASSIVE ships. It's not like the ship is just a small area only one person could fit in. Most of these are huge ships that are generally bigger then most states.
Oh, here we go with the "Conspiracy Theory" comment ... I was wondering how long it would take for this to come out.
I you bothered to read my post closely, you would have seen that I said "....has some of us wondering...." - no out-right statement of intent or policy was made. But seeing how some people are always willing to jump before they look, then it doesn't surprise me to see people accusing others of being Alarmist, Conspiracy Theorists, and the like. You're purely jumping on the defensive here, and it's really not needed - you'll get your Incarna and ability to walk around a station - oh boy, how much fun is that going to be? You might be letting your imagination run a little wild because, for all we know, CCP may not be intending to put much else into it. In otherwords, you'll be seeing things through the eyes of your avatar just like you do with most of the other games out there - and that's it, nothing further will be put into it, they'll move on to other aspects of the game's development.....maybe.
If you want to play a SIMs-style game, where you can build cities, and apartments, and stores, all with little avatar people walking around like ants in a maze, go disco dancing, fall in love, have fights and stuff, great - go play SIMs. This is EVE, it's about space, the last or final frontier - until we discover another dimension or parallel universes (if they exist). As "space" is largely unexplored and full of wonderous sites, anomolies, riches, lifeforms, and the like, why would you want to spend all your time on a space station walking around from one bar or store to another? You're defeating the purpose and wonder of what EVE should be. With CGI, it's not "the sky is limit", it's "space is the limit" with the images and graphics that CCP could accomplish out there in the wild, black , expanse of the universe. But that's ok, you can sit in your virtual bar, and get drunk, and break dance your avatar. And what's with the "mini-games" that are supposedly going to be part of the Incarna expansion? Mini-games? So what happened to EVE? Why would you want to play a game within a game? That should speak for itself - those that would want to engage in playing mini-games, have no love for EVE itself, so why bother being a member anymore?
This is the reason why I mentioned that some should spend a little more time "thinking" about where these expansions are leading EVE to. They're not putting much into showing us Stellar Fragments, Binary Pulsars, Blue Gas giants, star-forming Nebulae and the like - no, they're working on letting us walk around a space station, and playing mini-games ....easter egg hunt, anyone?
EVE players have a lot to look forward to judging by the information released in a new developer blog by CCP Zulu, the new senior producer. Zulu specifically writes to clarify information and rumors that came out of the recent meeting between devs and the Council of Stellar Management.
Before I comment on the discussion here about Incarna, I'd like to address the original post by SBFord. I'm not usually critical of posts by the staff here at MMORPG, but this post, particularly the first paragraph, has been eating at me since I read it this morning. If you are going to post a news item about a game and include your own comments, perhaps you should have an understanding of the issue(s) of that game before you post. If you had read through the comments to CCP Zulu's blog, or perused the forums a bit, you probably would not have made such a blanketing statement (unless you are a personal friend of Zulu's or he paid you off, neither of which I am inclined to believe is the case here).
The camps for and against Incarna (and Dust 514 and EVE Gate), whether truly against it or just against it at this time and at the cost of work on basic EVE, are clearly divided and quite obvious in both the EVE forums and here. Accordingly, that first sentence should have been worded, "Some Eve players..." since it is apparent that many players are up in arms about it in general or about the way it is being done.
As for the second sentence, again with a little bit of research (say perhaps, reading the comments to that thread), you would have noticed that for whatever reason Zulu had for writing that blog, he most certainly did NOT clarify any rumors. What he DID do was compound the situation even more by giving hard numbers to the rumors thus alienating even further those players who voiced concern after the minutes had been released.
The Read the entire blog post at EVE's site. should include and the comments to his blog. to give a clearer picture of what is transpiring.
Now onto the Incarna discussion...
The problem with these discussions about Incarna currently is that you have two diehard camps - those who want Incarna NOW and want to hear nothing else, and those hardcore vets who DO NOT want Incarna period because it breaks the lore and takes focus off their much loved space and its ships - AND a third, more blurry camp. This third camp covers a large and very diverse demographic of people:
Those who want Incarna but feel cheated and betrayed that nearly all of the dev resources are being used for Incarna (and Dust 514/EVE Gate - and most assuredly WoD) with basically a skeleton crew of twenty-one devs (and seven of them working on graphics!) working on EVE itself while the backlog of issues, some of which go back years and have been brought to the table by past and present CSM, is ignored or on hold for at least (the term 'probably' was used) eighteen months.
Those who want Incarna as it was originally envisioned by CCP and the players but are disappointed and angry by the watered-down version it appears CCP is now intent on delivering - even though they've had years to work this out - and, based on their most recent track record of leaving half-finished, unpolished features languishing, expect that Incarna will never come even close to it's full potential as a true addition to the EVE universe.
Those who don't care one way or the other about Incarna but expected when CCP disclosed its new motto for the year - Commitment to Excellence - that at least some of the issues which have been plaguing the game for eons would get fixed (with lag, FW, and lowsec space probably topping the list) but became irate, disillusioned and feel stepped on by CCP after the CSM5 minutes were released.
Those who don't really want Incarna but would accept it for the influx of new players IF current issues were addressed in the near future instead of vague promises, half-truths, and often outright denial that anything is wrong.
Those who just like to jump on the bandwagon and cause distention by giving misleading information, starting rumors, and promulgating underhanded, behind-the-scenes business dealings and conspiracy theories that have more holes than a buck-shot tin can and holds just as much water (or truth). (NOTE - this last was not meant for anyone in particular nor anyone in this thread. It is just included because as we all know, those trolls are out there in every game).
Notice a pattern there (well, with the exception of that last subgroup)? Most of these people who are objecting and voicing disapproval are not doing so out of hatred for Incarna. On the contrary, many WERE looking forward to it or were at least impartial. They are upset because of CCP's open admission to all but ignoring the basics of EVE in favor of a diluted, social, second-life flavored, nothing-but-fluff expansion that will add NOTHING to the gameplay as Ambulation was originally envisioned. They are upset because the CCP that was formed originally with that wonderful vision would never have put the virtual reality universe of EVE on a backburner in favor of a Sim-like spacebook (Incarna as it is appearing now plus EVE Gate). They are upset because the management, and the devs to a lesser degree, has lost touch with the playerbase of EVE and with EVE itself in favor of chasing the almighty dollar and their new games - Dust 514 (yes, Dust is a new game - it is a FPSMMO and a console game - even though it will be linked to EVE through Planetary Interaction) and World of Darkness.
Personally, I fit into both the first and second subgroups. I wanted the Walking-in-Stations as it was first described. I wanted an Incarna where there would be the possibility of dire, game-effecting circumstances for a pod pilot leaving his ship; where when a known criminal was spotted and recognized in the cantina, the chance would be good of a fight ensuing and possibly perma-death for a pod pilot; where traders would have enhanced functionality; where corporations could plan strategies on battle maps; where the black market would flourish and intrigue would become the norm. I wanted an Incarna that would include walking in other's ships and POS' to hack their systems.
I wanted an Incarna that effected the game itself and added to the virtual reality of the EVE universe. Instead we're getting bartenders, clothing makers, mini-games of some sort, drinking and talking, all at the cost of the basic EVE being all but abandoned for the next eighteen-plus months with major issues such as lag being relegated to a mere handful of teams and broken, half-finished, and promised features and mechanics basically put on hold with a promise of 'probably' being worked on after the Incarna/Dust 514 releases a year-and-a-half down the road.
If any of you are interested in a better understanding of what the uproar is all about and for a better grasp of the issues surrounding the situation, here are some links (both links under each heading go to the same page) to some of the best and more informative threads over in the official EVE forums...
CSM 5 Summit meeting minutes now available - The link to the minutes is found here but be sure to read the thread to better understand the concerns created by those minutes.
Well stated LordAdder, couldn't agree with you more, you hit all the hotspots, and, even left room for compromise. Still, in another forum posting, I did mention that new ships starting from the t1 line would be nice, and, all I heard were detractors, and, flamers, truth is, even though there are a small group of ships that actually serve no purpose ingame, doesn't mean that adding ships from the T1 line and up will be in the same vein, after all, in real life, car makers, truck makers are always adding new models to an already bloated system, and, those of the public can't gobble them up fast enough. Itd no different in Eve, make the ships usable, and, ppl will fly them, but, having 1 ship lines is a little silly in all, after all, someone comes out in a corm., or, thrasher, and you know its a lowly destroyer, but, what about variety, and the element of surprise, if ppl see new ships, then, they are going to be off a second, trying to figure it out, it then becomes guess work.
As for Incarna, I remember when I started Earth And Beyond, when the whole crazy of the walking in station started after EnBs closing and many of these transplanted pilots wanted the Ambulation ingame, to me its just an aspect. Its playable and fun, but, its not going to be any more then a percentage of my play style. It will be nice to see what the ships will look like from the players point of view, yes, and, clothing design and detail will be a factor, but, overall, it will be what it will be.
But, as for all the other points, well, it doesn't matter, I hate to say it, but, even the best programmers and management team has to take time to get new stuff working properly, but, in some cases, the few exploits that went unsolved for many years due to some Devs and GMs not recieving mails about these is a little bit of a blantant lie, especially the POS non-consuming exploit that allowed a few certain alliances to gain mass wealth.
But, I guess, my only really anger and loling, is the fact that the Devs and GMs aren't willing to acknowledge that 99.9% of the Eve populace need to be also included in the game, if you think about it, the only time the Devs and GMs actually get into Eve, is when there is an Alliance Tournament. So, only about .1% of the Eve populace get an acknowledgement to play Eve from the Devs and GMs. I remember when I first joined Eve, and, the Devs and GMs at that time tried a little bonus event, The jovian Diplomat Event, it was a half hearted attempt to bring something to the Eve populace, unfortunately, due to very poor planning, and, last minute rules and objective announcements, it didn't get the true Event Attention that these PVP Tournaments always recieve. After all, its not really hard to set up maybe 1 event for the whole Eve Populace every 2-3 years if, they take thier time and develope it right.
But, hey, I'm a nobody, I haven't played since 04, i know absolutely nothing, my whole life, I live in darkness, and, my opinion doesn't matter. Remeinds me of the old saying, Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Say No Evil. Devs and GMs would sooner hide, then actually try to really fix things.
It would be nice if we could get more "space" and less fluff for the buck. If I want virtual, social activity in a game, I'll go log on to something like Guild Wars and sit in an outpost and watch a bunch of adults act like kids throwing insults back and forth, or watch someone transform their avatar into a Ice Golem - oh boy! When I log on to EVE, I want to immerse myself into Sci-Fi.
The more CCP "fixes" something that's not broke, the more we see them chipping away at the original concept - all in favor of making a buck - by appealing to people who mostly don't even care about being out in space. There's no curiousity to see what's out there, and it takes too much effort on their part to try and figure out how the game works.
Logic would dictate that if CCP wants the fan-base to increase (more profits), then they'll have to appeal to this overwhelming group of virtual reality "customers" - the ones who are more comfortable in chat rooms playing "mind" games, than those that actually "play" games.
While the subjective commentary on the number of people that have stayed away from EVE because of the lack of humanoid avatars or tried but did not subscribe for the same may be interesting, what would the actual numbers be for those that have cancelled their subs because of some unfinished/unpolished/broken feature that had been previously introduced?
Nothing in Zulu's blog assuages any of the concerns that the community has about the direction that CCP is taking. To an extent, he has only added further fuel to the validity of their arguments.
There are two sides becoming more and more apparent (and more partisan) as this story continuest o unfold.
A) EVE Players
Incarnites
EVE Players are not against Incarna. They simply do not believe it should be the focus at this point. Were it a case that there was not such a backlog of issues, there would be no issue with Incarna being the focus. Everybody knows that it is long overdue for those that have wanted it or have felt a need for it. However, given the current state of so many facets of the game; it boggles the average EVE Player's mind that CCP is focusing on Incarna now. You could say that the normal EVE Player wants their cake and to eat it as well. CCP has stated they need to lower their expectations of the company.
Incarnites. Incarnites. Incarnites. Where to begin? They are either in denial about the amount of issues in EVE or they simply do not care about them. They believe that adding a feature that will not affect the core game (sometimes referred to as fluff) should take precedence over resolving issues and expanding the core game. Given CCP's history of releasing nifty ideas (unfinished/unpolished/broken), the Incarnites stubbornly believe that Incarna will not follow suit. They distance themselves further from the game with each post on Incarna.
Imagine if you will for a moment:
CCP: Would you like a cheese sandwich?
Player: Yes, thank you.
CCP: Here you go.
Player: Thank you, but wait - where is the cheese?
CCP: What? Your sandwich is working as intended.
* * * * *
CCP: Would you like a glass of milk to go with your sandwich?
Player: Yes, thank you - and could I get some cheese too please?
CCP: Here is your milk. What cheese?
Player: Thank you for the milk. The cheese missing from the sandwich.
CCP: We were not aware that cheese was missing from your sandwich.
Player: But I told you...
CCP: We will look into that.
Player: Thank you. Hrmmm, this milk tastes funny. Has it expired?
CCP: What? The milk is working as intended.
* * * * *
CCP: Would you like some chips?
Player: I do not know.
CCP: They're really good chips.
Player: Okay, thank you.
CCP: Here you go.
Player: Thanks. Any word on the cheese for my sandwich or a fresh glass of milk?
CCP: We just gave you chips, no?
Player: Well, yes. Kind of. Did you eat some as well? The bag is almost empty.
CCP: What? The chips are working as intended.
* * * * *
CCP: We forgot to give you a plate!
Player: I guess.
CCP: We're going to give you a plate!
Player: What about the cheese, milk, and chips?
CCP: After the plate!
Player: When will that be?
CCP: Probably in 18 months.
Player: Um, what?
CCP: It will be the best plate ever!
Player: /wrist
Lol this parody is probaly your way to see the case, i dont see it like that and to be honest compared to sometother games you got something to eat. The bread is fresh, the turned milk will soon become cheese and the almost empy bag of chips is just good for your health not to eat too much ... and i never use a plate to eat a sandwish.
Compared to MO's story:
SV: Hey look we got a 10 inch think full meat, cheese, letuce, tomatoes sandwish for you. AND it has the Unreal Mayonaise!
Player: Incredible! WANT SOME!
SV: Here is the sandwish.
Player: all what i see is a letuce, a bread, a tomato, a pork and a mayonaise pot, wich is stuck. They look good but smells bad.
SV: sorry Our Sandwish is a new concept : sandbox, everything is player made.
Player: but how can i make my sandwish ? got no idea how to make a sandwish like you promised me.
SV: Sandwish didnt work as intended but we will fix this in the 120 next patch.
I can't wait for the expansion and I play Eve on a regular basis. The potential for the future additions from this is insane. All new kinds of alternate ways to enhance your character via different jobs, not to mention one the basics of the walking and such are in-game this could easily be expanded to allow people to land on planets and explore them, ect.
Do you understand the lore and mechanics in regard to being a capsuleer?
You keep bringing up lore as if it is written in stone and cannot change. All I have to say is thank the Gods fo Gaming you are not in charge of this games direction.
Hikaru Zulu by any chace for CCP:). Certainly their blog suggests CCP are going in a STO direction. Will be interesting how Dust their FPS and the Theme park content work out. Part of the problem with EvE I think is that players kid themselves that lack of content is sand park on CCPs part, reading the developer blogs tell you the reality that the lack of content isn't actually intended by CCP, and they are trying to patch more in.
What i cannot understand is why CCP want to link Eve to a console FPS? Why not a PC based FPS at the very least?
Eve is a very 'PC' game, which can be seen by its interface and high learning curve for example, maybe they want to balance this out with a console-ly type game perhaps, but FPSes are generally fly by night games, there is always something new in the FPS world that makes the turn around of these type of games pretty high. Will people still be playing the FPS console (DUST) in 2 to 3 years from now? Will there be continuous upgrades of DUST to keep people interested?
I for one dont think this is a good idea, although i must admit that i don't know too much about DUST and how much it takes CCP to develop, but I would have loved to see this type of game play integrated into the current Eve game.
For example, after walking on stations, they then develop the DUST idea into a fully fledged modern combat MMORPG that is part and parcel of the main game with its own skills, char progression, ground vehicles, bases, waste lands(thinks Tabula Rasa/Planetside perhaps) where it is up to the individuals to decide whether they want to be in space or on the ground. If done correctly this would make Eve Online truely epic, where corps and alliance can develop worlds that can only be conquered by ground forces, due to underground facilities for example.
Comments
Well of course.
They don't just say they're doing something and finish it right away.
It takes a while to get it out there. They are more open about the process than most companies. Blizzard, for example, will tell you about things as they are more than 60% of the way done with most of the things releasing. CCP pretty much tells you what they're thinking about as it comes off the idea-board and they know they want to do it.
This of course has it's ups and downs. Like things not coming out for a very long time, but so far, what they have said they wanted to do has been done and/or is in the process of being done within the next year or so.
Maybe it's frustrating when you have to wait for such a long time, but I like to know what they are doing with the game I have invested in ahead of time. So I like it, anyway.
The ship avatar thing never really bothered me, but I know several people who tried the game and just didn't like it.
It's been a long time coming. It'll be good to see when it arrives.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Incarna & EVE gate! Hell Yeah, let's go for it!
Since SWG was destroyed I miss an environment that fits the good times in there. Incarna is the solution.
It is a question of fangs.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Faction warfare is already in, I never heard them mention treaties (not saying they didn't though), atmospheric flight is coming out once they get bigger projects like incarna done and will go along with planetary interaction which they have released, map rooms are coming out in incarna. Anything else?
Incarna will bring a whole new world added into EVE: The world of human entities and not just of spaceships! It will be the super expansion of its time when its launched! Finally people will be able to walk and talk. Socialize in their avatar forms, and in time when CCP starts adding to it - just as they now have been for 7 years adding things to their spacegame - it will develope into something that the players can find challenges in and not just for sosializing. Terraforming maybe? first step for planetary inhabitation? Theres simply no limits to where this in the end can take us! We will - finally be a complete sci-fi universe in all aspects!
I simply cant wait for Incarna to come! The estimates for its launch is not yet known. What we do know is we will get a small part of Incarna this year coming with the winter expansion, while its major part set for later. Most likely in the spring or winter expansion 2011.
Yes, we have exiting times in front of us indeed!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope putting 9 teams on incarna will help it come out by the holiday season at least.
):
I want it now.
Don't really care about Incarna. All you will be able to do is walk about in bars and offices, those that think you will be able to run around a space station shooting people in the face are going to be disapointed. CCP have already stated this wont happen.
As for Dust 514 I will take a look at it when it comes out but I like the space side of things. And where my character is at the moment.
I don't think CCP is not really doing Incarna for the existing playerbase, they are trying to add something to the game that will attract others. Let's face it, growing the playerbase is the aim of most companies, it allows them to expand the game with the increased income.
So I think the existing players need to be patient while CCP adds this feature. More people playing means they can add and fix other things that existing players want once Incarna is in place. There are no major issues they are ignoring atm.
I just think the existing playerbase is making a mountain out of a molehill with their complaints.
I've said it before - all Incarna is going to do is bring the universe of Eve closer to an AOL-style community service. You'll see more people spending time on-station doing things like social chats, stalking, spamming, scamming, and plenty of other things, rather than engulfing themselves into the "space" aspect of the what this game has been about. Of course, we're all going to need to be able to "dye" our outfits to our liking, and have tattoos and piercings, and be able to make our avatars do funky dances while we're just standing around in a empty hall-way ... the fan base is going to make stuff like that a mandatory thing that CCP will have to work on, among many others. So CCP will find that, in order to keep its fan-base growing, or at least keep the current members from dropping out, they're going to have dedicate more of their time and resources to address the fan-base's requests on making the in-station aspect more sociable and to their liking - so good-bye space, planet, POS, outer rim developments, etc.
This move to incorporate a more "human" aspect to the game (Incarna, in part) has some of us wondering if CCP hasn't just gotten tired of keeping this thing going - so they're trying to prop it up a little bit more before they sell off the "fanchise" to some third-party company who will take it over - and who know what it will become once that happens. This is, after all, what many companies do with their products so that they can free up their resources to go on to other projects - been there, done that.
And of course, for those that are feverishly dropping everything they're doing to quickly respond to my posting and flame me - of course CCP has NOT mentioned possible plans, or any pre-conceived notions to sell off the "franchise" - are you kidding me? This would obviously be a very closely guarded idea and, in its early stages of discussion, limited to the most senior members of the company. Obviously, if such plans existed and were leaked out, it would mean a mass exodus of the player base and therefore make it a worthless product to sell.
Just spend a little bit of that "dreamer" and "fantasy-world" brain-power you have to "explore" the reasons on why there are many issues in the game that could use some real devotion to fixing but, instead, they're working on opening up the game to a more social, human environment?
"Live long and prosper"
There are some interesting thoughts at this blog: http://keithneilson.co.uk/what-are-cruchgear-doing-interviewing-ccp/
...in regard to why CCP may be doing what they are doing.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
They are ofcource making this to attract more and new players. There are plenty people out there after all who dont want to play EVE because of lack in player character. But there are also plenty people who currently play EVE too who dearly wants it! I just being one of them!
I can't wait for the expansion and I play Eve on a regular basis. The potential for the future additions from this is insane. All new kinds of alternate ways to enhance your character via different jobs, not to mention one the basics of the walking and such are in-game this could easily be expanded to allow people to land on planets and explore them, ect.
I look at this expansion as just the first of what could be some great additions to the game. Just like when Eve originally launch it was for the most part just the core of the game. Well this is just the core of having actual physical characters in the game and could / can be expanded upon very easily. Imagine the potential (distant future) of being able to board other players ships during combat and shutting down different systems, ect. It could open the door for multiple players being on one ship and such. While this may not be there current plans for this expansion, it's always a possibility once this core foundation is layed.
Do you understand the lore and mechanics in regard to being a capsuleer?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
You are now putting out Conspiracy theories as to why they are implimenting Walking in stations?
Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? The theory that the correct answer is normally the simpliest one.
How about instead of CCP wanting to sell the company (Which has been growing exponentially, with thousands of new accounts a year), they just want to reach out to a broader fanbase?
Everyone also acts like the patch that has walking in stations will just be that, use common sense! They never release a patch that is just one aspect or feature, they normally release with multiple features put in and smaller patch notes.
Its funny how everyone likes to think of how EVE players are so "Hardcore" for gamers, yet you have a bunch of them getting so upset over not getting enough attention from the developers. I understand the need to voice your concerns, and i dont think that should stop.
But coming on here and writing up a bunch of conspiracy theories like "They are going to sell off the company" because of WIS is laughable.
Yes, but on the same token nowhere does it state that multiple people could not be allowed on these MASSIVE ships. It's not like the ship is just a small area only one person could fit in. Most of these are huge ships that are generally bigger then most states.
Oh, here we go with the "Conspiracy Theory" comment ... I was wondering how long it would take for this to come out.
I you bothered to read my post closely, you would have seen that I said "....has some of us wondering...." - no out-right statement of intent or policy was made. But seeing how some people are always willing to jump before they look, then it doesn't surprise me to see people accusing others of being Alarmist, Conspiracy Theorists, and the like. You're purely jumping on the defensive here, and it's really not needed - you'll get your Incarna and ability to walk around a station - oh boy, how much fun is that going to be? You might be letting your imagination run a little wild because, for all we know, CCP may not be intending to put much else into it. In otherwords, you'll be seeing things through the eyes of your avatar just like you do with most of the other games out there - and that's it, nothing further will be put into it, they'll move on to other aspects of the game's development.....maybe.
If you want to play a SIMs-style game, where you can build cities, and apartments, and stores, all with little avatar people walking around like ants in a maze, go disco dancing, fall in love, have fights and stuff, great - go play SIMs. This is EVE, it's about space, the last or final frontier - until we discover another dimension or parallel universes (if they exist). As "space" is largely unexplored and full of wonderous sites, anomolies, riches, lifeforms, and the like, why would you want to spend all your time on a space station walking around from one bar or store to another? You're defeating the purpose and wonder of what EVE should be. With CGI, it's not "the sky is limit", it's "space is the limit" with the images and graphics that CCP could accomplish out there in the wild, black , expanse of the universe. But that's ok, you can sit in your virtual bar, and get drunk, and break dance your avatar. And what's with the "mini-games" that are supposedly going to be part of the Incarna expansion? Mini-games? So what happened to EVE? Why would you want to play a game within a game? That should speak for itself - those that would want to engage in playing mini-games, have no love for EVE itself, so why bother being a member anymore?
This is the reason why I mentioned that some should spend a little more time "thinking" about where these expansions are leading EVE to. They're not putting much into showing us Stellar Fragments, Binary Pulsars, Blue Gas giants, star-forming Nebulae and the like - no, they're working on letting us walk around a space station, and playing mini-games ....easter egg hunt, anyone?
"Live long and propser"
Before I comment on the discussion here about Incarna, I'd like to address the original post by SBFord. I'm not usually critical of posts by the staff here at MMORPG, but this post, particularly the first paragraph, has been eating at me since I read it this morning. If you are going to post a news item about a game and include your own comments, perhaps you should have an understanding of the issue(s) of that game before you post. If you had read through the comments to CCP Zulu's blog, or perused the forums a bit, you probably would not have made such a blanketing statement (unless you are a personal friend of Zulu's or he paid you off, neither of which I am inclined to believe is the case here).
The camps for and against Incarna (and Dust 514 and EVE Gate), whether truly against it or just against it at this time and at the cost of work on basic EVE, are clearly divided and quite obvious in both the EVE forums and here. Accordingly, that first sentence should have been worded, "Some Eve players..." since it is apparent that many players are up in arms about it in general or about the way it is being done.
As for the second sentence, again with a little bit of research (say perhaps, reading the comments to that thread), you would have noticed that for whatever reason Zulu had for writing that blog, he most certainly did NOT clarify any rumors. What he DID do was compound the situation even more by giving hard numbers to the rumors thus alienating even further those players who voiced concern after the minutes had been released.
The Read the entire blog post at EVE's site. should include and the comments to his blog. to give a clearer picture of what is transpiring.
Now onto the Incarna discussion...
The problem with these discussions about Incarna currently is that you have two diehard camps - those who want Incarna NOW and want to hear nothing else, and those hardcore vets who DO NOT want Incarna period because it breaks the lore and takes focus off their much loved space and its ships - AND a third, more blurry camp. This third camp covers a large and very diverse demographic of people:
Those who want Incarna but feel cheated and betrayed that nearly all of the dev resources are being used for Incarna (and Dust 514/EVE Gate - and most assuredly WoD) with basically a skeleton crew of twenty-one devs (and seven of them working on graphics!) working on EVE itself while the backlog of issues, some of which go back years and have been brought to the table by past and present CSM, is ignored or on hold for at least (the term 'probably' was used) eighteen months.
Those who want Incarna as it was originally envisioned by CCP and the players but are disappointed and angry by the watered-down version it appears CCP is now intent on delivering - even though they've had years to work this out - and, based on their most recent track record of leaving half-finished, unpolished features languishing, expect that Incarna will never come even close to it's full potential as a true addition to the EVE universe.
Those who don't care one way or the other about Incarna but expected when CCP disclosed its new motto for the year - Commitment to Excellence - that at least some of the issues which have been plaguing the game for eons would get fixed (with lag, FW, and lowsec space probably topping the list) but became irate, disillusioned and feel stepped on by CCP after the CSM5 minutes were released.
Those who don't really want Incarna but would accept it for the influx of new players IF current issues were addressed in the near future instead of vague promises, half-truths, and often outright denial that anything is wrong.
Those who just like to jump on the bandwagon and cause distention by giving misleading information, starting rumors, and promulgating underhanded, behind-the-scenes business dealings and conspiracy theories that have more holes than a buck-shot tin can and holds just as much water (or truth). (NOTE - this last was not meant for anyone in particular nor anyone in this thread. It is just included because as we all know, those trolls are out there in every game).
Notice a pattern there (well, with the exception of that last subgroup)? Most of these people who are objecting and voicing disapproval are not doing so out of hatred for Incarna. On the contrary, many WERE looking forward to it or were at least impartial. They are upset because of CCP's open admission to all but ignoring the basics of EVE in favor of a diluted, social, second-life flavored, nothing-but-fluff expansion that will add NOTHING to the gameplay as Ambulation was originally envisioned. They are upset because the CCP that was formed originally with that wonderful vision would never have put the virtual reality universe of EVE on a backburner in favor of a Sim-like spacebook (Incarna as it is appearing now plus EVE Gate). They are upset because the management, and the devs to a lesser degree, has lost touch with the playerbase of EVE and with EVE itself in favor of chasing the almighty dollar and their new games - Dust 514 (yes, Dust is a new game - it is a FPSMMO and a console game - even though it will be linked to EVE through Planetary Interaction) and World of Darkness.
Personally, I fit into both the first and second subgroups. I wanted the Walking-in-Stations as it was first described. I wanted an Incarna where there would be the possibility of dire, game-effecting circumstances for a pod pilot leaving his ship; where when a known criminal was spotted and recognized in the cantina, the chance would be good of a fight ensuing and possibly perma-death for a pod pilot; where traders would have enhanced functionality; where corporations could plan strategies on battle maps; where the black market would flourish and intrigue would become the norm. I wanted an Incarna that would include walking in other's ships and POS' to hack their systems.
I wanted an Incarna that effected the game itself and added to the virtual reality of the EVE universe. Instead we're getting bartenders, clothing makers, mini-games of some sort, drinking and talking, all at the cost of the basic EVE being all but abandoned for the next eighteen-plus months with major issues such as lag being relegated to a mere handful of teams and broken, half-finished, and promised features and mechanics basically put on hold with a promise of 'probably' being worked on after the Incarna/Dust 514 releases a year-and-a-half down the road.
If any of you are interested in a better understanding of what the uproar is all about and for a better grasp of the issues surrounding the situation, here are some links (both links under each heading go to the same page) to some of the best and more informative threads over in the official EVE forums...
Assembly Hall
[Proposal] CCP, commit to excellence. No features left behind - This is a megathread (or more commonly referred to as a threadnaught in EVE speak) with over 2000 votes supporting the proposal!
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1327362
Jita Park Speakers Center
CSM 5 Summit meeting minutes now available - The link to the minutes is found here but be sure to read the thread to better understand the concerns created by those minutes.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1352338
CCP Zulu’s Blog
iterative development and what's happening in 2011 - The blog this news item addresses.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=777
EVE Information Portal
New Dev Blog: Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 - The thread pertaining to CCP Zulu's blog.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1354510
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
Well stated LordAdder, couldn't agree with you more, you hit all the hotspots, and, even left room for compromise. Still, in another forum posting, I did mention that new ships starting from the t1 line would be nice, and, all I heard were detractors, and, flamers, truth is, even though there are a small group of ships that actually serve no purpose ingame, doesn't mean that adding ships from the T1 line and up will be in the same vein, after all, in real life, car makers, truck makers are always adding new models to an already bloated system, and, those of the public can't gobble them up fast enough. Itd no different in Eve, make the ships usable, and, ppl will fly them, but, having 1 ship lines is a little silly in all, after all, someone comes out in a corm., or, thrasher, and you know its a lowly destroyer, but, what about variety, and the element of surprise, if ppl see new ships, then, they are going to be off a second, trying to figure it out, it then becomes guess work.
As for Incarna, I remember when I started Earth And Beyond, when the whole crazy of the walking in station started after EnBs closing and many of these transplanted pilots wanted the Ambulation ingame, to me its just an aspect. Its playable and fun, but, its not going to be any more then a percentage of my play style. It will be nice to see what the ships will look like from the players point of view, yes, and, clothing design and detail will be a factor, but, overall, it will be what it will be.
But, as for all the other points, well, it doesn't matter, I hate to say it, but, even the best programmers and management team has to take time to get new stuff working properly, but, in some cases, the few exploits that went unsolved for many years due to some Devs and GMs not recieving mails about these is a little bit of a blantant lie, especially the POS non-consuming exploit that allowed a few certain alliances to gain mass wealth.
But, I guess, my only really anger and loling, is the fact that the Devs and GMs aren't willing to acknowledge that 99.9% of the Eve populace need to be also included in the game, if you think about it, the only time the Devs and GMs actually get into Eve, is when there is an Alliance Tournament. So, only about .1% of the Eve populace get an acknowledgement to play Eve from the Devs and GMs. I remember when I first joined Eve, and, the Devs and GMs at that time tried a little bonus event, The jovian Diplomat Event, it was a half hearted attempt to bring something to the Eve populace, unfortunately, due to very poor planning, and, last minute rules and objective announcements, it didn't get the true Event Attention that these PVP Tournaments always recieve. After all, its not really hard to set up maybe 1 event for the whole Eve Populace every 2-3 years if, they take thier time and develope it right.
But, hey, I'm a nobody, I haven't played since 04, i know absolutely nothing, my whole life, I live in darkness, and, my opinion doesn't matter. Remeinds me of the old saying, Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Say No Evil. Devs and GMs would sooner hide, then actually try to really fix things.
That was an excellent post, Adder. Kudos man.
It would be nice if we could get more "space" and less fluff for the buck. If I want virtual, social activity in a game, I'll go log on to something like Guild Wars and sit in an outpost and watch a bunch of adults act like kids throwing insults back and forth, or watch someone transform their avatar into a Ice Golem - oh boy! When I log on to EVE, I want to immerse myself into Sci-Fi.
The more CCP "fixes" something that's not broke, the more we see them chipping away at the original concept - all in favor of making a buck - by appealing to people who mostly don't even care about being out in space. There's no curiousity to see what's out there, and it takes too much effort on their part to try and figure out how the game works.
Logic would dictate that if CCP wants the fan-base to increase (more profits), then they'll have to appeal to this overwhelming group of virtual reality "customers" - the ones who are more comfortable in chat rooms playing "mind" games, than those that actually "play" games.
'Later.
Lol this parody is probaly your way to see the case, i dont see it like that and to be honest compared to sometother games you got something to eat. The bread is fresh, the turned milk will soon become cheese and the almost empy bag of chips is just good for your health not to eat too much ... and i never use a plate to eat a sandwish.
Compared to MO's story:
SV: Hey look we got a 10 inch think full meat, cheese, letuce, tomatoes sandwish for you. AND it has the Unreal Mayonaise!
Player: Incredible! WANT SOME!
SV: Here is the sandwish.
Player: all what i see is a letuce, a bread, a tomato, a pork and a mayonaise pot, wich is stuck. They look good but smells bad.
SV: sorry Our Sandwish is a new concept : sandbox, everything is player made.
Player: but how can i make my sandwish ? got no idea how to make a sandwish like you promised me.
SV: Sandwish didnt work as intended but we will fix this in the 120 next patch.
Still waiting for the patches....
See? I prefer Eve's story.
You keep bringing up lore as if it is written in stone and cannot change. All I have to say is thank the Gods fo Gaming you are not in charge of this games direction.
What i cannot understand is why CCP want to link Eve to a console FPS? Why not a PC based FPS at the very least?
Eve is a very 'PC' game, which can be seen by its interface and high learning curve for example, maybe they want to balance this out with a console-ly type game perhaps, but FPSes are generally fly by night games, there is always something new in the FPS world that makes the turn around of these type of games pretty high. Will people still be playing the FPS console (DUST) in 2 to 3 years from now? Will there be continuous upgrades of DUST to keep people interested?
I for one dont think this is a good idea, although i must admit that i don't know too much about DUST and how much it takes CCP to develop, but I would have loved to see this type of game play integrated into the current Eve game.
For example, after walking on stations, they then develop the DUST idea into a fully fledged modern combat MMORPG that is part and parcel of the main game with its own skills, char progression, ground vehicles, bases, waste lands(thinks Tabula Rasa/Planetside perhaps) where it is up to the individuals to decide whether they want to be in space or on the ground. If done correctly this would make Eve Online truely epic, where corps and alliance can develop worlds that can only be conquered by ground forces, due to underground facilities for example.
One game to rule them all!