FC-FamineFuncom Community ManagerMemberUncommonPosts: 278
Originally posted by fallenlords
Don't know about anybody else but I actually find this quite annoying. According to this when AOC launches it will be free, so what the hell are we paying for then?
I'm not sure why you would want to sound demanding as if this is a bad thing that needs explaining? This is looked at as a normal business model in the Korean market. Korea is a very different market and it's highly accepted as well pretty much how all games in our genre operate in that market including the ones with our partners in Korea -- Neowiz.
Silirrion just recently addressed a silimar question on the North American forums here.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
You mean, like Blizzard's different payment model for WoW in Korea and China has come to the EU and US servers since it was implemented there a few years ago?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Funcom is going to test their F2P model in Korea, if it is successful fully expect it to come to the NA and EU servers as well.
I don't thin k the success in Korea will have much to say if we get it in EU/US tbh. F2P is the way to go in Korea when it comes to subscriptions. Supported by cash shops this can generate a lot of money alone. I would be surprised if the F2P option with cash shop hasn't been considered for EU7US allready, after all Funcom already have a cash shop in place...
Funcom is going to test their F2P model in Korea, if it is successful fully expect it to come to the NA and EU servers as well.
I don't thin k the success in Korea will have much to say if we get it in EU/US tbh. F2P is the way to go in Korea when it comes to subscriptions. Supported by cash shops this can generate a lot of money alone. I would be surprised if the F2P option with cash shop hasn't been considered for EU7US allready, after all Funcom already have a cash shop in place...
Ahem, engine update which may possibly be getting the game ready for a F2P model
Isn't that totally normal in Korea? Sounds like a total non-issue to me. They have said all along that they might go F2P at some point. I hope they do to be honest, would bring more players back to the game than any expansion, update or patch could.
Funcom is going to test their F2P model in Korea, if it is successful fully expect it to come to the NA and EU servers as well.
I don't thin k the success in Korea will have much to say if we get it in EU/US tbh. F2P is the way to go in Korea when it comes to subscriptions. Supported by cash shops this can generate a lot of money alone. I would be surprised if the F2P option with cash shop hasn't been considered for EU7US allready, after all Funcom already have a cash shop in place...
Ahem, engine update which may possibly be getting the game ready for a F2P model
Or it may not. We can make it a betting game, on whether AoC will go F2P outside of Korea this year and see who was right after a few months.
I'm betting they won't implement F2P for US/EU regions: for the simple reason that other MMO companies like Blizzard with WoW are using different payment models than the monthly subscription fee for countries like Korea and China, and them using non-monthly subs there hasn't made Blizzard implement their Korean/Chinese payment model here in the west.
Although, if LotrO is hugely successful with their F2P/hybrid model then I expect other MMO companies to seriously consider the hybrid model too, among them also Funcom.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Isn't that totally normal in Korea? Sounds like a total non-issue to me. They have said all along that they might go F2P at some point. I hope they do to be honest, would bring more players back to the game than any expansion, update or patch could.
It's a trade-off, you'd lose alot of people who hate F2P as well, either way even going F2P AoC won't get a mega burst in population but maybe the game could finally stablize around 150k players, compared to the dismal 60-75k it has right now.
Isn't that totally normal in Korea? Sounds like a total non-issue to me. They have said all along that they might go F2P at some point. I hope they do to be honest, would bring more players back to the game than any expansion, update or patch could.
It's a trade-off, you'd lose alot of people who hate F2P as well, either way even going F2P AoC won't get a mega burst in population but maybe the game could finally stablize around 150k players, compared to the dismal 60-75k it has right now.
One thing that bugs me a little about MMO considerations these days is that people consider 60-150k to be 'bad'..sure it isn't WOW numbers, but only WOW has WOW numbers. I played AC and AO for years, and enjoy Fallen Earth, all of which have <20k subs and are still good games and supported by their devs.
As long as the costs are in line and the team the right size so it is profitable those small teams have shown you can keep adding content, and games like AOC and WAR had huge teams to start with so they have better bases to start from in many ways. I mean AOC in particular will still look awesome in a few years time (and hey, it might perform better when tech advances ) so it should still be cost effective for it's dev team. Wit the next game to WOW having only 300-400k in the west (EVE or Aion depending on who you believe) I don't think 75-150k (which is where everyone else is just about, LOTRO, WAR, AOC, STO et al) is a bad level for still having a decent game going there.
You mean, like Blizzard's different payment model for WoW in Korea and China has come to the EU and US servers since it was implemented there a few years ago?
For the mentally challenged: that never happened.
The difference is that WoW is sucesfull in EU/NA while AoC is... not so much.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I won't spend my time with any game just because it is free, or cheap. I play a game because I enjoy it, that is the only reason. My time is valuable and my game time is limited. If I am playing a game it is because I am having a good time with it, then after I have my fill of it I quit and find something else to play I enjoy.
What I will do sometimes is buy older games cheap that I never got around to playing. I find deals on good games that way , so I am not averse to saving a buck. On the other hand I won't let saving a buck be the primary reason for choosing which game to play either.
I won't spend my time with any game just because it is free, or cheap. I play a game because I enjoy it, that is the only reason. My time is valuable and my game time is limited. If I am playing a game it is because I am having a good time with it, then after I have my fill of it I quit and find something else to play I enjoy.
What I will do sometimes is buy older games cheap that I never got around to playing. I find deals on good games that way , so I am not averse to saving a buck. On the other hand I won't let saving a buck be the primary reason for choosing which game to play either.
I get that.. always limitations to how far all that will go though.
Games ARE only so important .. I get more pleasure talking about them than actually playing lol.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
I think that if you make a study of payment methods in MMOs over time you will se that they are constantly evolving and that they differ from market to market
USD 15 was the way to do things when WOW launched. Now cash/item shops are becoming more common. In game marketing is also growing. (product placement). Payment by the hour is an alternative. So is a combination of all.
The smart thing to do for Funcom is to study these trends and use the most profitable method at the time.
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
I was talking about for AoC itself. To get it setup and ready for when they will probably decide to do it in the U.S. Which I hope they don't. But at least they can probably get the kinks worked out there first.
even rumors (which.. are only as valuable as hypotheticals) say that Blizzard is planning on their unannounced mmo being F2P.
when thinking about the money they'd lose - if they continuously created new levels/online expansions with raised caps and charged you so much for it every so often (vague) - might work.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
In summary, the popular games that make hand over fist in money in America and Europe charge money for time in Asian markets, such as Aion and WoW, while other that don't do so well do not.
Also the model doesn't change so much, the price has not gone up in 10 years so to be sucessful today you need double the players as you did 10 years ago and you are good. The argument that development needs more personell is silly as I looked it up and posted here that at the two year point EQ had 15 times the bosses of AoC, and much more land area and many more monster types....so are developers becoming more inefficient?
IDK, I know the 4 years of development for AoC costed 40 million and since day 1 of release AoC has been having issues paying quarterly bills with zero recoup for those four years but I don't see why this would be going F2P in Korea if it won't be going F2P everywhere else soon, especially after selling so much extras like character slots, XP pots, leveling packs, etc. Lotro and many other games do well at FTP but those games also have much more of a grind or this and that that goes well with that model but IDK about LOTRO.
The market in Korea isn't that big for any MMORPG, even aion and wow. The big thing is FPS and Starcraft and games like GTA. This dicussion is really mooot, because the amount of players/server for AOC will be minimal.
AOC is all about graphics, and the most popular game by FAR in Korea is Starcraft, which had bad graphics when it was released 12 years ago.
This is like the polish and russian servers. it was something to talk about with AOC, but as soon as they launched, they disappeared from the radar ( polish never even launched).
Comments
I can help provide some input for you.
I'm not sure why you would want to sound demanding as if this is a bad thing that needs explaining? This is looked at as a normal business model in the Korean market. Korea is a very different market and it's highly accepted as well pretty much how all games in our genre operate in that market including the ones with our partners in Korea -- Neowiz.
Silirrion just recently addressed a silimar question on the North American forums here.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Funcom is going to test their F2P model in Korea, if it is successful fully expect it to come to the NA and EU servers as well.
You mean, like Blizzard's different payment model for WoW in Korea and China has come to the EU and US servers since it was implemented there a few years ago?
For the mentally challenged: that never happened.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't thin k the success in Korea will have much to say if we get it in EU/US tbh. F2P is the way to go in Korea when it comes to subscriptions. Supported by cash shops this can generate a lot of money alone. I would be surprised if the F2P option with cash shop hasn't been considered for EU7US allready, after all Funcom already have a cash shop in place...
Ahem, engine update which may possibly be getting the game ready for a F2P model
Isn't that totally normal in Korea? Sounds like a total non-issue to me. They have said all along that they might go F2P at some point. I hope they do to be honest, would bring more players back to the game than any expansion, update or patch could.
Or it may not. We can make it a betting game, on whether AoC will go F2P outside of Korea this year and see who was right after a few months.
I'm betting they won't implement F2P for US/EU regions: for the simple reason that other MMO companies like Blizzard with WoW are using different payment models than the monthly subscription fee for countries like Korea and China, and them using non-monthly subs there hasn't made Blizzard implement their Korean/Chinese payment model here in the west.
Although, if LotrO is hugely successful with their F2P/hybrid model then I expect other MMO companies to seriously consider the hybrid model too, among them also Funcom.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's a trade-off, you'd lose alot of people who hate F2P as well, either way even going F2P AoC won't get a mega burst in population but maybe the game could finally stablize around 150k players, compared to the dismal 60-75k it has right now.
One thing that bugs me a little about MMO considerations these days is that people consider 60-150k to be 'bad'..sure it isn't WOW numbers, but only WOW has WOW numbers. I played AC and AO for years, and enjoy Fallen Earth, all of which have <20k subs and are still good games and supported by their devs.
As long as the costs are in line and the team the right size so it is profitable those small teams have shown you can keep adding content, and games like AOC and WAR had huge teams to start with so they have better bases to start from in many ways. I mean AOC in particular will still look awesome in a few years time (and hey, it might perform better when tech advances
) so it should still be cost effective for it's dev team. Wit the next game to WOW having only 300-400k in the west (EVE or Aion depending on who you believe) I don't think 75-150k (which is where everyone else is just about, LOTRO, WAR, AOC, STO et al) is a bad level for still having a decent game going there.
Well aren't they lucky? /bump
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
The difference is that WoW is sucesfull in EU/NA while AoC is... not so much.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
But the resemblance is that they both use different payment models for Korea than the P2P model that's being used in the EU & US.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would play AOC if it were F2P.
Wouldn't buy the expansion though.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
I won't spend my time with any game just because it is free, or cheap. I play a game because I enjoy it, that is the only reason. My time is valuable and my game time is limited. If I am playing a game it is because I am having a good time with it, then after I have my fill of it I quit and find something else to play I enjoy.
What I will do sometimes is buy older games cheap that I never got around to playing. I find deals on good games that way , so I am not averse to saving a buck. On the other hand I won't let saving a buck be the primary reason for choosing which game to play either.
"The Pen Is Mightier Than The Demo"
I get that.. always limitations to how far all that will go though.
Games ARE only so important .. I get more pleasure talking about them than actually playing lol.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
i expect a model similar to AO from funcom, making the core game free and expansion part paid.
I need more vespene gas.
Well this will set the stage if AoC decides to go Free Play in the U.S. Which I don't wish to happen anytime soon.
Actually, the stage was set by DDO and then followed up by LOTRO.
Soon to be followed by Funcom, I mean really why wouldn't they?
I think that if you make a study of payment methods in MMOs over time you will se that they are constantly evolving and that they differ from market to market
USD 15 was the way to do things when WOW launched. Now cash/item shops are becoming more common. In game marketing is also growing. (product placement). Payment by the hour is an alternative. So is a combination of all.
The smart thing to do for Funcom is to study these trends and use the most profitable method at the time.
Originally posted by BishopB:
Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?
I was talking about for AoC itself. To get it setup and ready for when they will probably decide to do it in the U.S. Which I hope they don't. But at least they can probably get the kinks worked out there first.
even rumors (which.. are only as valuable as hypotheticals) say that Blizzard is planning on their unannounced mmo being F2P.
when thinking about the money they'd lose - if they continuously created new levels/online expansions with raised caps and charged you so much for it every so often (vague) - might work.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
In summary, the popular games that make hand over fist in money in America and Europe charge money for time in Asian markets, such as Aion and WoW, while other that don't do so well do not.
Also the model doesn't change so much, the price has not gone up in 10 years so to be sucessful today you need double the players as you did 10 years ago and you are good. The argument that development needs more personell is silly as I looked it up and posted here that at the two year point EQ had 15 times the bosses of AoC, and much more land area and many more monster types....so are developers becoming more inefficient?
IDK, I know the 4 years of development for AoC costed 40 million and since day 1 of release AoC has been having issues paying quarterly bills with zero recoup for those four years but I don't see why this would be going F2P in Korea if it won't be going F2P everywhere else soon, especially after selling so much extras like character slots, XP pots, leveling packs, etc. Lotro and many other games do well at FTP but those games also have much more of a grind or this and that that goes well with that model but IDK about LOTRO.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
The market in Korea isn't that big for any MMORPG, even aion and wow. The big thing is FPS and Starcraft and games like GTA. This dicussion is really mooot, because the amount of players/server for AOC will be minimal.
AOC is all about graphics, and the most popular game by FAR in Korea is Starcraft, which had bad graphics when it was released 12 years ago.
This is like the polish and russian servers. it was something to talk about with AOC, but as soon as they launched, they disappeared from the radar ( polish never even launched).