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Bloody tanks
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
Is it just me or do i have just bad luck...
I am leveing a new character through the dungeon finder, its obviously hard to find tanks (I am a healer) and so you wait 15 minutes till you can enter the dungeon because you have found a tank. Upon entering the dungeon in more then 50% of all cases the tanks leaves the group within a few minutes, which leaves you to wait another 15 minutes before finding a new tank, needles to say most people have left by then.
Is this a conspiracy, or are those people actually having fun knowing that now those people need to wait another 20 minutes for a group.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Well, my problem is, when I reach 80 with a tank (and I have quite a few, tanking is what I like, and nothing else) people doesn't want to do even heroics once they see the gear level.
If they stay they change their mind but, they usually leave a lot of times.
Thanks God there's plenty of dps's out there.
The problem comes when, like yesterday, the healers leave you just when the pull starts -.-
See it's not just a pain for healers
P.D.: I *never* leave a party, even less when people isn't well geared, I don't need to fight for the threat with people 1500 gs above me in those situations.
I've been recently leveling a character, and it hasn't really been a big problem. Tanks do leave more easily than others, because they can get another group so easily, but from my experience it's been more like 1 out of 5 runs, not 50% of the runs. Dps leaves too, it's just the tank you notice leaving since dps is easy to replace. Of course the situation may be worse on another battlegroup.
If the tanks are leaving early and you are the healer, are you sure you're doing everything correctly? Tank might leave at lvl 80 because the rest of the group has bad gear, but not usually so easily when you're leveling. Whereas a tank who feels he doesn't get healed properly and assumes it's going to end up in wipe will often leave no matter what level.
Never had that happen when I was playing WoW as a healer, but I did end up using my tank a lot more for heroic grinding (my 80 druid was bear and tree), because it took mere seconds to find a group. I only left groups if they complained about the way I tanked, but that only happened once or twice I believe. I had an 80 warrior that I wanted to tank with as well, but my goodness was that annoying to try and gear compared to my bear tank =/
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
As i was about to quit... I now suddenly have this feeling to level a tank, atleast i may take off a few seconds on the long wait times your speaking of. :P
Making so much noise you dont know when to listen.
It's insane how quick you get into groups as a tank - most of the time I was in a group just about instantaneously after I hit the find group button. BUT I can almost guarantee that as a fresh tank you probably will be kicked from groups when they see your health.. or at least this was the fate for my beloved warrior (but to be fair she is on one of the most elitist realms I've had the pleasure of playing on). You might want to prepare for running groups with a secondary spec of DPS or Healing until you have better gear.
If you do roll a tank and get up there with the appropriate gear for heroics, but everyone wants a t9 ready tank, don't get yourself down. My main on WoW was a healer, and I used to heal my warrior tank buddy in WoTLK heroics, while he wore a full set of t1 gear (about 11k health, and very crittable) for fun and we did those heroics just fine and it was a lot more fun for me. If people don't think your blues are good enough they are the dumb ones not you.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
yeah, completely forgot about the expectations people have towards tanks, cheers for the heads up. Also good to see that there are still some people who are not to elitist and still play for the fun factor, wish i was on your server.
Making so much noise you dont know when to listen.
Tanking will always be the handicap when it comes to dungeons and pugs. Try to be-friend a tank on your server that's in your level range? Otherwise, yah you just have to bite the bullet. At least you're a healer, DPS queues can be upwards of 30-45 mins depending on what level range you're in.
Being a tank in WoW is probably the worst job ever, as you'll be flamed alot by all the dying DPS-kiddies, who don't even give you two seconds time to pull and aggro the mobs.
Running dungeons with random groups is total crap imho, especially as a tank or healer, but I wouldn't even consider it as a DD.
It doesn't take that long for healers to get a group on bloodlust. But tanks are always instant. The only time I have ever seen tanks quit were when they would just pull everything, run further, and keep pulling, not noticing that there is a healer with no gear at all trying to keep his health up. Then the tank rages and calls everyone baddies, then leaves the party. That happens quite a bit though, expecially with the "hardcore" servers like kiljaeden and blackrock supplying us with their tanks.
I'm actually a third or fourth time returning player myself, leveling a tank - partially through random dungeons. This means that I not only have the pleasure of not having the experience you mentioned, but I know that I am helping to prevent it for others.
To be fair WoW has evolved to the point where it's insanely easy as a tank, by just running up to a mob and gaining instant threat that is adequate. It's only more challenging when you are undergeared with an overgeared group of DPS, but that's why all the tanking classes have a taunt with a short cool down *shrug*. The only thing that takes skill as a tank are in raids and I guess pvp.
Tanking is the funnest role to play next to healing in my opinion.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
People leaving groups becasue of gear score and requesting to see yours for anying anymore is stupid. stuff that took a low GS to do a few months ago they want a high one for now. Either to be carried through or some other crap reason. Blizz should just make it so that you can't use mods anymore. would make a lot of the elitist shit go away, but there would still be the cheesement part which is not being used how it was ment to be. Now it's an Epen meter.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
Yeah i know there are a lot of bad tanks but why there is so few tanks has lot more to do with all the VERY bad dps and healers who think the group of people are there to do as they please with then when you hit 80 and the elite assholes it gets really bad
Yeah I really hate that this is what the game has turned into, and before gear score it was all about the damage meters or whatever. I feel like all these trends started right after TBC came out, but I could be wrong.
It's sad that the majority of the gamers in WoW now believe that this game is a game of numbers, and a higher number gives the player more inherent worth, when there are countless times in my career in WoW that I have been showed the player skill will triumph over those numbers almost any time.
It's like one of the best warlocks I knew, who in the most recent expansion could put on greens and oudated tier gear and out DPS people with the newest epics (how that was possible is almost beyond me, but me and my group saw it with our own eyes) and the tank friend who could tank the new heroics in t1 with no problem while I healed, and back in TBC when I took a hunter wearing greens to zul aman, and he out DPS'd all the other players there wearing full epics. Or when I went on a guild run for Ulduar, and one of the most geared DKs (full t8.5 when it was the highest tier) couldn't DPS for anything, always died in the fights, DID have a decent computer and internet connection, but was only kept around because his older brother was the GM. Sure good gear and making the game so easy helps a lot, but player skill is taken for granted these days.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Agreed..
I remember when you could do any dungeon and raid without the need for addons.. now Blizzard "designs" the game with those in mind.. Do you honestly think that all the WoTLK instances were designed without the use of addons? oh hell no.. The general population of players that have done any dungeons and raids knows this. Perfect example is "healbot", which is the number 1 used addon by healers in the game.. Why? Because having addons like this are an almost needed requirement to defeat the current bosses.. I would be willing to put good money on a Las Vegas line bet that 99% of all RAIDS would fail if not for the use of addons.. Blizzard won't prohibit them, infact they figure them into the formula of how encounters work.. HELL.. Blizzard is even making money off the addons..hense "Auction House" addons and now the cash shop crap by Blizz..
My biggest bitch about all this with Bliz is that they tailor the instances for the hardcore gamers, while tossing the rest table scraps.. then try to BS us to think it's something else.. Reminds me of used car saleman tactics..
I think some really good points have been made in this thread.
As I developed as a player, I began to gravitate toward tanking. I have an 80 warrior, Deathknight and Pally. I enjoy tanking because it suits my play style.
Having said that, the community in general is absolutely brutal on tanks especially new ones. Many of these issues have been brought out in this thread, these include:
1) Gearscore. Players automatically judge a tank on their GS and instead of trying a dungeon with a a tank with a poor GS, they simply leave. Addons such as GS have had a very negative impact on new tanks.
2) Lack of friendly player community. Instead of attempting to help new tanks in heroics, there is an automatic expectation for them to perform on the same level of main raid tanks. How many tanks who are actually raiding top tier, really want to do heroics? Most tanks who do heroics, do so out of a need for gear and/or badges. Lets face it, rarely will you see a top tier tanks in heroics and yet, the expectations still exist.
In spite of knowing all of the fights in heroics, my pally reached 80 about 3 months ago. In doing the heroics, I got all of the above attitude because "I was a newb".."Lol..sh*tty gear score" etc. As a player, I come to the game to have fun. Not to argue with people whether I can tank an instance or not.
My pally was to be my main tank. However, the prospect of going through all that nonsense again in randoms is just too daunting. This combined with what I perceive as the very poor Wow community has caused me to unsubscribe.
The funny thing is that in spite of the dire need for tanks, the community still abuses them. If it were me on the other end of the stick waiting for tanks in randoms, I would be treating any tank (especially one on my own server) like gold. And if they didnt know how to tank, I would attempt to walk them through it in the hope of developing a tank and a friend.
But with Wow, as usual, we get quite the opposite.
Just my 2 cents worth
I agree with everything in this post, I also quit about 8 months just as gearscore was coming in and glad i didn't put myself through it. I do have a paladin tank and never had any issues tanking anything heroics or raid wise, i never even complained when i saw a lowly geared healer ( i was slightly overgeared for hc's though having raided Ulduar). Why tanks complain about healers i have no idea, and why healers complain about tanks, again i have no idea. In most hc's you will have either a overgeared tank and a undergeared healer or a overgeared healer and a undergeared tank. People should just get on with it, afterall if you're confident in your abilities why leave?
You can get through any instance heroic or not without addons. What you are referring to are raids, and yes these are BETTER with mods, but they are not necessary. The only mod that's borderline mandatory is Deadly Boss Mods, and that just makes it easier to know what special effects are going on in the encounter. You could get by without it, you would just have to know each encounter in and out a whole lot more.
Would 99% of raids fail without addons? That's tough to say. Who's raiding? Do you mean progression raiding? Then yes, because chances are you're barely geared or undergeared for the events. If you're talking about being overgeared 264 item levels doing VoA, Onyxia, Naxx, ToC... then No, you're wrong.
The addon system in WoW is great, completely changes the game. I don't understand what you could possibly have against it.
Back on topic with tanks. Tanking gets to be like healing, only worse. It's fun to do with your friends, people that matter, people that are decent, for something that matters. However, when it comes to pugs, people that seem to think it's fun for you to run around like a madman trying to round everything up while everyone picks their own target need to be shot.
Honestly I quit tanking in WoW due to the face roller DPS folks. I don't mind someone pushing me to get as much aggro as possible, testing my skills. You want to be a tool and challenge me for aggro, have at it. But it's the folks that just make it their goal of the group to get aggro that seem to ooze out of the wood work anymore. They come in to the group, little to no communication and start going balls to the walls as soon as the mob is in range, engaged or not. I play to have fun, not to be constantly baby sit junior just mashing keys to potentially wipe a group / raid. I say hats off to my fellow tanks out there that have the drive to put up with it still.
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~V