Well im not sure where this f2p s**t storm orginiated at, nm i remember now. But it has gotten some larger media attention. The Wall Street Journal was one of those. Im not going to commont on their article but, what was clear is that F2P make the company more money. You wanna know why there is a push for F2P .. its easy game companies want more than $15 a month from you and in F2P games they get it. Now i have clearly stated that there are some real f2p games out there, very few but a few SB was one, Lol (not an mmo) was one etc.
A few people do not want to admit that F2P is a simple rip off. thats fine but i just want to stress to most of the people out there are are no positives to this system, as most often its FAKE and not F2P at all. Even those pro F2P in this forum addmit that they had to switch to sub to actually play the game (well that not their take but its the truth, once they did that they are now playing a P2P game, ill say that agian. They are not playing a F2P game they are playing a P2P game with a open trial w/ strong limits. This is fine but don't pretend its F2P cause its not, even tho DDO is one of the most free to play). Cash shops w/o subs (P2P options) are the worst type of payment models. In most cases requires $50-$100+ a month just to play.
I do agree with the advantage of testing the game before paying for it. P2P game have these they are called trials. By many standards and statement of what F2P is by a few pro F2P people WAr is more of a F2P game than wizards 101. This is rather odd a F2P game is less F2P and a P2P game. Why? Well easy F2P is rarely F2P. if you want to play Wizards 101 or WAR past a defined earily point (WAR is later ability and game wise than Wizards) then you have to P2P; until then you can play all you like.
There is definatly an effort in parts of the industry to encourgae adaptation to F2P models to make more money. Thats what this is all about. Don't believe me look up the articles.
Shennanigans, plain and simple. DDO can be entirely F2P, hence why it is classified under that title. Obviously the company is hoping you spend something on their product eventually, else why in the world would they put out the cost of further developement and upkeep. If I chose to cancel my VIP status tomorrow, I could continue to play DDO completely free of cost for as long as the service existed. THAT quality makes it F2P. We aren't talking about getting everything for nothing here, that would be completely ludicrous. We're talking about being smarter about the way we spend our money. I will make you a promise right now. The way people choose to spend their money in a RMT shop will speak louder than any amount of forum posts a community could ever make. Don't want to see unbalancing gameplay items included in a shop? Don't buy them, and stigmatize anyone who does. Beyond that, you're just spinning your wheels, end of story.
You could keep "playing it" could you do any instances, could you do any instances that give you ok equipment? Could you do any instances that groups do? Pretty much no right? I played ddo a lot i have a good grasp on the game. Theres not much to do when you can't enter any "dungeons" (calling it this so others can understand) when there is no real open world. There are some solo dungeons that are easy and not something rewarding. This is why you subed, to participate in the game and progress your character. You didn't have to do this, but you wouldn't progress your character and equip much would you.
As i DID SAY BUT YOU IGNORED, DDO is one of the most free to play. It was not developed or patched for 2-3 years that way. But still even if this Wonderful example of one of the most truely F2P you need to subscribe to continue your character, to go into "dungeons" for group quests, etc. With WAR's trial you can forever play for free thats what makes it F2P then .... at least by your account.
"Don't want to see unbalancing gameplay items included in a shop? Don't buy them, and stigmatize anyone who does." Yeah good luck i mean maybe i missed somethign but i feel you may not be in touch with reality with this one. I mean come on if there is an op cash shop item its WILL be Bought and no one is gonna stigmatize them becuase they are going to own the same item or hope they carry there lootless butt through the instance.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I found more fun in playing most of the Aeria free-to-play mmos over the years than I had in most of the pay-to-pay ones I've played.
I think free-to-play+cash shop+subscription hybrid is the best way to go. There's a bunch of good quality mmos out there that are free. I'm talking about good graphics/gameplay/music/ pve/pvp/ animations. There's a bunch with way different ideas and styles than pay-to-play mmos have right now as well. There's just way more to offer me in terms of variation in the current free-to-play market. On top of all of that, you get to PAY FOR WHAT YOU WANT. I don't always feel like every aspect of a pay-to-play game is up to my standards of quality. With free-to-play, I get to buy an experience boost if the grind is too much, a buff if I'm too weak, and the like.
The problem with free-to-play is that sometimes they become pay-to-win. You don't have to win to have fun, though. The best way to remedy this is to allow the free player the ability to acquire the cash shop currency. I think I saw this first with Rohan. LOTRO and DDO are doing as well. I threw down 20 bucks or something after I got high enough to realize I really liked what there was to offer. Then I bought the exchanges system that let you sell in-game items for cash shop currency. I made over 100 bucks worth of cash-shop currency. I never payed real money again. I hear they screwed the game up now, but most developers tend to screw the games up somehow or another.
I also haven't had any customer service problems... content is added a lot of the time. It feels like most of the people that loath the very souls of the free-to-play market are actually sucking up what a few other people might have felt. I get very very very far in an f2p mmo before I spend any money. I'm talking like passed lvl 50 or 60. A few weeks at the least from when I started playing. So yeah... it's both cheaper and you get to pay for what you want.
I don't think they screw it up i think it wasn't makign them enough money .... or they thought they could make more. Basiclly if you can make cash shop money from ingame items or spend less thats $15 a month but have accesses to most of the content then the companies not makign money, however, if there are more reasons and requirements to spend money this makes the company more money and incentivises making more requirements to spend money and more options to become eleet w/o effort.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
MMO's are never F2P. You have to pay for something to reach the end of the game less you want to spend hours upon hours grinding. Korean MMO's are a great example of that. Should be called T2P aka Transaction To Play. Because you are paying in the end for something, regardless.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
1) If the game is failing, it's probably failing for a reason. I'm not aware of any game that was truly in the shitter, that was magically resurrected through a transition to F2P. The example of DDO isn't an accurate representation of F2P, in that it involves selling the Adventure Packs (i.e. content), with tends to make the initial game into a well-featured demo, which isn't the same thing as F2P. There's a reason Turbine is calling it "Hybrid", and why the "No Cover Charge" term is beginning to get used - it's not the same thing as the F2P that this article is suggesting we embrace. But if you'd like to bring out some examples from the other 99.9% of F2P's out there...
You speak the truth, brother. We are on the same page.
I wanted to expand on the quote above. Its just funny how the success of DDO's transition has made these f2p shills come screaming out of their little cubby holes. Let's not forget DDO is a pretty damn good game. It was released in a poor, very controversial state(Eberron setting, all instanced, no exploring).
I would say this was a fluke. DDO is unlike most games out there. It took the F2P to get people to come back, and first timers to try it. Its a very engaging game unlike most that are out there. A huge amount of customization(melee clerics, melee spellcasters the options are endless), and one of the few games left that allow you to create very powerful alts(True Reincarnation is totally revolutionary for this genre).
Its my belief that LOTRO will not see the resurrgence DDO did.
I don't like the f2p model, but it has less to do with the model and more to do with the crap games that are usually f2p, and the money grab that some of hte better ones throw out there. But they are "free to play", that title doesn't describe it being free to enjoy to the fullest.
You could keep "playing it" could you do any instances, could you do any instances that give you ok equipment?
Yes. Tons of dungeons are free. Xorian Cipher, which has some of the most desired items in the game is a f2p dungeon. Very challenging for people who don' take the game seriously, though. With the use of hirelings, this can be easily duo-ed by two people who aren't complete idiots. Lots of stuff can be bought off the Auction House. In DDO you don't need the bestestest gear to be viable. Good gear drops from any mission. The bestestest? No.
I've also heard of people farming for Turbine points to buy packs.
Could you do any instances that groups do? Pretty much no right? I played ddo a lot i have a good grasp on the game. Theres not much to do when you can't enter any "dungeons" (calling it this so others can understand) when there is no real open world. There are some solo dungeons that are easy and not something rewarding. This is why you subed, to participate in the game and progress your character. You didn't have to do this, but you wouldn't progress your character and equip much would you.
Either you haven't played very much, or you're one of those players I hate in my group. Good/mediocre players can solo almost any dungeon in this game. Grab a hireling, have a decent, well though-out build, have max fortification, have some potions if needed, and you can do 80% of the content. Just have to put a tiny bit of brain power into it. The only missions I haven't soloed are any dungeon that require three people to be present(hirelings can pull levers). I have no raid gear.
I really don't care if the game is F2P or P2P as long as it's a good game, only people who care if it's P2P or F2P are the people who can't afford to P2P or don't think the game is worth P2P so not much point in playing the game if it's not worth paying for
The article, unfortunately, left out the most important reason we should all tightly embrace 'F2P' - all those Godawful flash ads for 'F2P' games (that anybody who doesn't regularly snack on paint chips blocks in their browser or proxy) on the site the article is posted on...
I think P2P and F2P have its place and have benefits. However, every game I have looked at so far would cost me far MORE than the subscriptions i normally pay under these new models.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
I'm sorry, but this is a poorly written article that is nothing but un-substantiated personal opinion.
If I had paid to read it, I'd be asking for my money back.
I have played F2P, and to seriously be involved in it (as you are with a sub MMO), is NEVER as cheap as a $15 a month subscription. So easy on the wallet? Uhm, no.
Some real quality for cheap? I would argue about the quality over the long term, and as for "cheap" I refer back to my last point.
Change? Improving on something someone else has done is not a bad thing. Games have been doing it for 20 years now, and we've all benefitted from it. When its subscription, you either truly improve or you die.
And as far as survivability of a game ... it should either survive because people want to play it or it should die because it can't get subscriptions. F2P just allows gaming companies to leave crap out there forever, do nothing with it, except throw stuff in the transaction store to try to milk more money out of the die-hard players.
I notice, there is no discussion here of the crap community most these F2P games have, or the hackers that keep hacking the game (and if they get caught they just roll up another account, rinse and repeat) or the restrictions they put on the game so they can milk money out of you through pay-pal.
This trend towards taking a sub-game to F2P is nothing more than desparation into an arena that most these companies have no experience with. They are just trying to "ride the wave" into the unknown, based off the hype and success of Korea. We'll see in time how well that works.
The U.S. is not Korea. We don't think like Koreans, we don't play like Koreans and we are not Korean consumers.
The article was a good laugh, if that was what you were intending. The first one got a real chortle from me. Hope you said that "less stress on your wallet" tongue in cheek. You do realize of course that it is very easy to spend a lot more than your standard subscription rate per month in these games.
Their is no such thing as free to play, that is a complete misnomer. More like free to test and pay through the nose to play.
If you like pvp, you had better have a fat wallet, because ALL of these games require significant spending in the item shop to be viable in pvp.
Not saying f2p is bad. For those with not a lot of time to play and the cash to spend on the game they are a good choice.
Any game that has pvp with an item shop that effects such is still a complete joke in my mind.
In truth separate PvP should be completely separate from PvE completely, regardless of shops. Most MMOs (sub or f2p) don't do this. In the largest, WoW, you have to pay an extra 20 dollars to play on the tournament server where everyone has immediate access to all of the gear. In Guild Wars PvP-only characters have immediate access to the best gear in the game.
Any other method (subscription or f2p) means that the person with the most time (subscription) or most money (f2p/item shop) is going to have the advantage. The old days of limiting the number of turns/time online in a single day to even the playfield are long gone.
Subscription based games without daily limits give the advantage to those with the most time whereas item shop games give the advantage to those with the most money. Both can be exploitive (Aion is an example that requires substantial time expenditures wheras item shop games in the East are notorious for requiring massive monetary expenditures).
Item Shop Game
- Good to the highly paid professional with limited time to play but doesn't want to be left behind.
- Bad for the kid or student that has limited funds to keep up with those that have more
Subscription Game
- Good for the kid or part time worker with loads of time to play but limited funds
- Bad for the professional or family person that has limited time to play
So, pick which resource you have the most of: Time or Money. If you have neither, well you're pretty much screwed. If you have both, then neither has a disadvantage to you - in fact, you may want to play a Cryptic game.
Most of us fit into one of the two categories, though. Forutunately there are plenty of games in both categories that 'do it right' and don't heavily abuse their customers.
I have lost count of the number of games that I have stopped playing, simply becausee they make you pay real money over and over for things like extra inventory space!
F2P (free to play) is an out and out lie ..... really means free to pay .. unless u just want an endless demo with a cieling on how far you can go (ie no progress you arent playing anymore) before you have to pay. Stoopid people with lotsa money to spend will buy potions and lotions and spells and "time saving" gear so they can progress .... where does it end? ... I read a horror story about a woman in china who wanted to be king .. she spent the equivalent of 1,000's of dollars to get there ... only to find that it would cost more thousands to stay on top.
At least with a subscription game you know how much it really
F2P (free to play) is an out and out lie ..... really means free to pay .. unless u just want an endless demo with a cieling on how far you can go (ie no progress you arent playing anymore) before you have to pay. Stoopid people with lotsa money to spend will buy potions and lotions and spells and "time saving" gear so they can progress .... where does it end? ... I read a horror story about a woman in china who wanted to be king .. she spent the equivalent of 1,000's of dollars to get there ... only to find that it would cost more thousands to stay on top.
At least with a subscription game you know how much it really
I think if a player didn't care about being competitive they could play some of these games and not spend a dime. I played Archlord and spent nothing.
With the DDO system I think I spent ten dollars total.
Eventually you will level up and will be able to play on some level. might not be at the top but so what?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Well this editor is kinda hard to use ... like how do you turn off italics after a word
Crap there is no way so u may as well take it out of the editor
after "really" abovre I was gonna say ;
costs to actuially play the game.
I have yet to see a f2p game that you can actually play for free. I know you will all say oh noes game xyz I play totaly free. I don't think so. All I have tried (and la few ptp games as well) have been a big disappointment.
Playin a f2p game is like walkin down the street where everybody has their hand out trying to convince you to part with money ... the guy with the first comment has it right in my opinion ,,,, f2p on average costs more than p2p .... the most expensive p2p gam I know of is about 50 cents a day .... that is not money ... thet is chump change.
Playin a f2p game is like walkin down the street where everybody has their hand out trying to convince you to part with money ... the guy with the first comment has it right in my opinion ,,,, f2p on average costs more than p2p .... the most expensive p2p gam I know of is about 50 cents a day .... that is not money ... thet is chump change.
Again it must be said there are examples of F2P that are bad, there are examples that are not so bad. Yes some games are very much built around a pay to win model. There's no argument against that, some are also very expensive and again no real argument from me otherwise.
However your argument is some-what flawed in relation to the hybrid model. In which all gates are lifted with a flat normal monthly subscription rate. The only question becomes is this individual game worth a monthly fee, just like any other mmo.
If not you can still play a -lite version of it. You can even purchase (some-what cheap) upgrades from time to time if you so wish. In the end it's up to you to limit what you spend as well as decide what is worth the asking price. If you're going to be playing a lot you can just sub as per normal.
Edit- Or you can just not play, eat apple cobbler and smile.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Playin a f2p game is like walkin down the street where everybody has their hand out trying to convince you to part with money ... the guy with the first comment has it right in my opinion ,,,, f2p on average costs more than p2p .... the most expensive p2p gam I know of is about 50 cents a day .... that is not money ... thet is chump change.
Again it must be said there are examples of F2P that are bad, there are examples that are not so bad. Yes some games are very much built around a pay to win model. There's no argument against that, some are also very expensive and again no real argument from me otherwise.
However your argument is somewhat flawed in relation to the hybrid model. In whcih all gates are lifted with a flat normal monthly subscription rate. The only question becomes is this individual game worth a monthly fee, just like any other mmo.
If not you can still play a -lite version of it. You can even purchase (somewhat cheap) upgrades from time to time if you so wish. In the end it's up to you to limit what you spend as well as decide what is worth the asking price. If you're going to be playing a lot you can just sub as per normal.
Ya know "in the end' it is always up to me to spend my money on what I want. Or not spend it on what I dont want ... what I don't want are hidden costs or bulls%$& promises of a free gaming experience.
If I start paying a fee in a hybrid (as u call it) system .. then where is the f2p???
These f2p peeps are just using "sharp trading" tactics to get more money out of the players than they would get with a sub. Or to suck in people that normally wouldn't play their game. It is a whole band of con men in the bean counter dept of the game company who have come up with a new moneymaking gimmick. I would prefer someone to say "You can try it for free in a limited way, then if you like it it will cost X. Up front and honest. No con job.
people that never play this game have the oportunity for check it, if this game is good or bad, in my case i say DD0 is good game.
in f2p model of turbine you can got same experience ovf vip member with 15 dollars months is excelent
wow in the future could have same way for f2p, the reason the company need money for survive and we need games for play long time, please no more QQ for f2p model
The true F2P marketed games I've tried, I didn't care for and have never continued.
I'm going to see how LoTRO and EQ2 work this out in the coming months as the two models are fairly dissimilar. LoTRO is a game I enjoy and would likely play casually, but it would never be my 'main' MMO. EQ2 I've always maintained a sub even when I don't play for months.
I can see F2P pricing, as a model for people that are truly casual or testing a game to get a feel for it, but F2P is never F2P, with all the micro-transactions. IF the AAA games go to the extent many of us are concerned about, in you cannot be competitive without dumping a bunch of cash each month, I won't play. I'd rather have a quality game at one price than be nickel and dimed to death.
Bottom-line this is our entertainment and the developers/producers/companies business. I'd rather they offer a variety of pricing structures from a F2P to monthly/annual sub so the game will have a good income stream, (with development time spent on game content - not more things for the micro-shop), a continual flow of new players with a solid player base at the higher levels. I see that as a win.
Again it must be said there are examples of F2P that are bad, there are examples that are not so bad. Yes some games are very much built around a pay to win model. There's no argument against that, some are also very expensive and again no real argument from me otherwise.
However your argument is somewhat flawed in relation to the hybrid model. In whcih all gates are lifted with a flat normal monthly subscription rate. The only question becomes is this individual game worth a monthly fee, just like any other mmo.
If not you can still play a -lite version of it. You can even purchase (somewhat cheap) upgrades from time to time if you so wish. In the end it's up to you to limit what you spend as well as decide what is worth the asking price. If you're going to be playing a lot you can just sub as per normal.
Ya know "in the end' it is always up to me to spend my money on what I want. Or not spend it on what I dont want ... what I don't want are hidden costs or bulls%$& promises of a free gaming experience.
If I start paying a fee in a hybrid (as u call it) system .. then where is the f2p???
These f2p peeps are just using "sharp trading" tactics to get more money out of the players than they would get with a sub. Or to suck in people that normally wouldn't play their game. It is a whole band of con men in the bean counter dept of the game company who have come up with a new moneymaking gimmick. I would prefer someone to say "You can try it for free in a limited way, then if you like it it will cost X. Up front and honest. No con job.
With MMO's moving closer and closer to mainstream, there will be more and more "cons" introduced. That's what business has been and will always be about. The casual market has always been a code word for the masses, whom they've been trying to reach. F2P is becoming just another evolution to that ever growing reality.
It's a marketing ploy first and foremost, that much is certain.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I will never ever play a F2P mmo... F2P mmo's are generic and also promotes cash shops which i'm totally against... Embrace F2P mmo's???? I say embrace this hand where the sun don't shine! Thank you very much!
I will continue to wait for an inspiring, epic, quality, mmo worth my money,, such as Rifts, Planes of Telara, Tera, and or TOR.... And you also have 38 studios, project Copernicus... I'm sure at least one of those will be worth my money... And they won't be F2P, lol..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm not sure if I agree with number 3 and number 4. I've heard about people paying very large amounts of money on the free to play games. It's true at the very least you could pay nothing, but if you want certain perks you will probably end up spending the traditional sub fee a month or more.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Comments
You could keep "playing it" could you do any instances, could you do any instances that give you ok equipment? Could you do any instances that groups do? Pretty much no right? I played ddo a lot i have a good grasp on the game. Theres not much to do when you can't enter any "dungeons" (calling it this so others can understand) when there is no real open world. There are some solo dungeons that are easy and not something rewarding. This is why you subed, to participate in the game and progress your character. You didn't have to do this, but you wouldn't progress your character and equip much would you.
As i DID SAY BUT YOU IGNORED, DDO is one of the most free to play. It was not developed or patched for 2-3 years that way. But still even if this Wonderful example of one of the most truely F2P you need to subscribe to continue your character, to go into "dungeons" for group quests, etc. With WAR's trial you can forever play for free thats what makes it F2P then .... at least by your account.
"Don't want to see unbalancing gameplay items included in a shop? Don't buy them, and stigmatize anyone who does." Yeah good luck i mean maybe i missed somethign but i feel you may not be in touch with reality with this one. I mean come on if there is an op cash shop item its WILL be Bought and no one is gonna stigmatize them becuase they are going to own the same item or hope they carry there lootless butt through the instance.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I don't think they screw it up i think it wasn't makign them enough money .... or they thought they could make more. Basiclly if you can make cash shop money from ingame items or spend less thats $15 a month but have accesses to most of the content then the companies not makign money, however, if there are more reasons and requirements to spend money this makes the company more money and incentivises making more requirements to spend money and more options to become eleet w/o effort.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
MMO's are never F2P. You have to pay for something to reach the end of the game less you want to spend hours upon hours grinding. Korean MMO's are a great example of that. Should be called T2P aka Transaction To Play. Because you are paying in the end for something, regardless.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
You speak the truth, brother. We are on the same page.
I wanted to expand on the quote above. Its just funny how the success of DDO's transition has made these f2p shills come screaming out of their little cubby holes. Let's not forget DDO is a pretty damn good game. It was released in a poor, very controversial state(Eberron setting, all instanced, no exploring).
I would say this was a fluke. DDO is unlike most games out there. It took the F2P to get people to come back, and first timers to try it. Its a very engaging game unlike most that are out there. A huge amount of customization(melee clerics, melee spellcasters the options are endless), and one of the few games left that allow you to create very powerful alts(True Reincarnation is totally revolutionary for this genre).
Its my belief that LOTRO will not see the resurrgence DDO did.
I don't like the f2p model, but it has less to do with the model and more to do with the crap games that are usually f2p, and the money grab that some of hte better ones throw out there. But they are "free to play", that title doesn't describe it being free to enjoy to the fullest.
I really don't care if the game is F2P or P2P as long as it's a good game, only people who care if it's P2P or F2P are the people who can't afford to P2P or don't think the game is worth P2P so not much point in playing the game if it's not worth paying for
The article, unfortunately, left out the most important reason we should all tightly embrace 'F2P' - all those Godawful flash ads for 'F2P' games (that anybody who doesn't regularly snack on paint chips blocks in their browser or proxy) on the site the article is posted on...
I think P2P and F2P have its place and have benefits. However, every game I have looked at so far would cost me far MORE than the subscriptions i normally pay under these new models.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
I'm sorry, but this is a poorly written article that is nothing but un-substantiated personal opinion.
If I had paid to read it, I'd be asking for my money back.
I have played F2P, and to seriously be involved in it (as you are with a sub MMO), is NEVER as cheap as a $15 a month subscription. So easy on the wallet? Uhm, no.
Some real quality for cheap? I would argue about the quality over the long term, and as for "cheap" I refer back to my last point.
Change? Improving on something someone else has done is not a bad thing. Games have been doing it for 20 years now, and we've all benefitted from it. When its subscription, you either truly improve or you die.
And as far as survivability of a game ... it should either survive because people want to play it or it should die because it can't get subscriptions. F2P just allows gaming companies to leave crap out there forever, do nothing with it, except throw stuff in the transaction store to try to milk more money out of the die-hard players.
I notice, there is no discussion here of the crap community most these F2P games have, or the hackers that keep hacking the game (and if they get caught they just roll up another account, rinse and repeat) or the restrictions they put on the game so they can milk money out of you through pay-pal.
This trend towards taking a sub-game to F2P is nothing more than desparation into an arena that most these companies have no experience with. They are just trying to "ride the wave" into the unknown, based off the hype and success of Korea. We'll see in time how well that works.
The U.S. is not Korea. We don't think like Koreans, we don't play like Koreans and we are not Korean consumers.
In truth separate PvP should be completely separate from PvE completely, regardless of shops. Most MMOs (sub or f2p) don't do this. In the largest, WoW, you have to pay an extra 20 dollars to play on the tournament server where everyone has immediate access to all of the gear. In Guild Wars PvP-only characters have immediate access to the best gear in the game.
Any other method (subscription or f2p) means that the person with the most time (subscription) or most money (f2p/item shop) is going to have the advantage. The old days of limiting the number of turns/time online in a single day to even the playfield are long gone.
Subscription based games without daily limits give the advantage to those with the most time whereas item shop games give the advantage to those with the most money. Both can be exploitive (Aion is an example that requires substantial time expenditures wheras item shop games in the East are notorious for requiring massive monetary expenditures).
Item Shop Game
- Good to the highly paid professional with limited time to play but doesn't want to be left behind.
- Bad for the kid or student that has limited funds to keep up with those that have more
Subscription Game
- Good for the kid or part time worker with loads of time to play but limited funds
- Bad for the professional or family person that has limited time to play
So, pick which resource you have the most of: Time or Money. If you have neither, well you're pretty much screwed. If you have both, then neither has a disadvantage to you - in fact, you may want to play a Cryptic game.
Most of us fit into one of the two categories, though. Forutunately there are plenty of games in both categories that 'do it right' and don't heavily abuse their customers.
I have lost count of the number of games that I have stopped playing, simply becausee they make you pay real money over and over for things like extra inventory space!
F2P (free to play) is an out and out lie ..... really means free to pay .. unless u just want an endless demo with a cieling on how far you can go (ie no progress you arent playing anymore) before you have to pay. Stoopid people with lotsa money to spend will buy potions and lotions and spells and "time saving" gear so they can progress .... where does it end? ... I read a horror story about a woman in china who wanted to be king .. she spent the equivalent of 1,000's of dollars to get there ... only to find that it would cost more thousands to stay on top.
At least with a subscription game you know how much it really
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
I think if a player didn't care about being competitive they could play some of these games and not spend a dime. I played Archlord and spent nothing.
With the DDO system I think I spent ten dollars total.
Eventually you will level up and will be able to play on some level. might not be at the top but so what?
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I hate P2W.
I hate cash shops.
I hate gated content and so called "velvet ropes".
I hate the same boring grinder, over and over.
I hate games being designed with mechincs in place to force people to use the cash shop.
So... I hate F2P and probably always will.
I will not embrace (not) F2P.
If a game is not worth my time, it certainly is not worth my money.
Well this editor is kinda hard to use ... like how do you turn off italics after a word
Crap there is no way so u may as well take it out of the editor
after "really" abovre I was gonna say ;
costs to actuially play the game.
I have yet to see a f2p game that you can actually play for free. I know you will all say oh noes game xyz I play totaly free. I don't think so. All I have tried (and la few ptp games as well) have been a big disappointment.
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
What about the hybrids that have been coming to light recently?
In which you can just go the age old sub route and avoid all of this?
No offense but I could picture Grumpy Smurf writing the above, lol. Yeah, I'm a child of the 80's.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Playin a f2p game is like walkin down the street where everybody has their hand out trying to convince you to part with money ... the guy with the first comment has it right in my opinion ,,,, f2p on average costs more than p2p .... the most expensive p2p gam I know of is about 50 cents a day .... that is not money ... thet is chump change.
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
Again it must be said there are examples of F2P that are bad, there are examples that are not so bad. Yes some games are very much built around a pay to win model. There's no argument against that, some are also very expensive and again no real argument from me otherwise.
However your argument is some-what flawed in relation to the hybrid model. In which all gates are lifted with a flat normal monthly subscription rate. The only question becomes is this individual game worth a monthly fee, just like any other mmo.
If not you can still play a -lite version of it. You can even purchase (some-what cheap) upgrades from time to time if you so wish. In the end it's up to you to limit what you spend as well as decide what is worth the asking price. If you're going to be playing a lot you can just sub as per normal.
Edit- Or you can just not play, eat apple cobbler and smile.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ya know "in the end' it is always up to me to spend my money on what I want. Or not spend it on what I dont want ... what I don't want are hidden costs or bulls%$& promises of a free gaming experience.
If I start paying a fee in a hybrid (as u call it) system .. then where is the f2p???
These f2p peeps are just using "sharp trading" tactics to get more money out of the players than they would get with a sub. Or to suck in people that normally wouldn't play their game. It is a whole band of con men in the bean counter dept of the game company who have come up with a new moneymaking gimmick. I would prefer someone to say "You can try it for free in a limited way, then if you like it it will cost X. Up front and honest. No con job.
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
I play DDO in f2p my conclusion are:
people that never play this game have the oportunity for check it, if this game is good or bad, in my case i say DD0 is good game.
in f2p model of turbine you can got same experience ovf vip member with 15 dollars months is excelent
wow in the future could have same way for f2p, the reason the company need money for survive and we need games for play long time, please no more QQ for f2p model
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The true F2P marketed games I've tried, I didn't care for and have never continued.
I'm going to see how LoTRO and EQ2 work this out in the coming months as the two models are fairly dissimilar. LoTRO is a game I enjoy and would likely play casually, but it would never be my 'main' MMO. EQ2 I've always maintained a sub even when I don't play for months.
I can see F2P pricing, as a model for people that are truly casual or testing a game to get a feel for it, but F2P is never F2P, with all the micro-transactions. IF the AAA games go to the extent many of us are concerned about, in you cannot be competitive without dumping a bunch of cash each month, I won't play. I'd rather have a quality game at one price than be nickel and dimed to death.
Bottom-line this is our entertainment and the developers/producers/companies business. I'd rather they offer a variety of pricing structures from a F2P to monthly/annual sub so the game will have a good income stream, (with development time spent on game content - not more things for the micro-shop), a continual flow of new players with a solid player base at the higher levels. I see that as a win.
Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.
Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2
With MMO's moving closer and closer to mainstream, there will be more and more "cons" introduced. That's what business has been and will always be about. The casual market has always been a code word for the masses, whom they've been trying to reach. F2P is becoming just another evolution to that ever growing reality.
It's a marketing ploy first and foremost, that much is certain.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I will never ever play a F2P mmo... F2P mmo's are generic and also promotes cash shops which i'm totally against... Embrace F2P mmo's???? I say embrace this hand where the sun don't shine! Thank you very much!
I will continue to wait for an inspiring, epic, quality, mmo worth my money,, such as Rifts, Planes of Telara, Tera, and or TOR.... And you also have 38 studios, project Copernicus... I'm sure at least one of those will be worth my money... And they won't be F2P, lol..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm not sure if I agree with number 3 and number 4. I've heard about people paying very large amounts of money on the free to play games. It's true at the very least you could pay nothing, but if you want certain perks you will probably end up spending the traditional sub fee a month or more.
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FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
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