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General: Even the Wall St. Journal Notices F2P Shift

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

Even the venerated Wall Street Journal is sitting up to take notice of of the fact that some of the West's biggest gaming companies are taking games into the realm of 'free to play'. In an article in the newspaper's 'Tech' section, writer Nick Wingfield talks about both Sony Online Entertainment and Time-Warner shifting popular titles Everquest and Lord of the Rings Online to a new monetary paradigm.

The shift, which game companies in Asia figured out years ago, underscores how broadly a once foreign-seeming approach to business is coming to permeate the games industry. U.S. games companies are far more dependent on retail sales of software in stores than their counterparts in Korea and China, where rampant software piracy forced local companies to be more inventive about making money through methods like virtual goods sales.

While the article doesn't share any earth shattering news, it's an interesting read. Check it out at The Wall Street Journal: Tech page.

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Comments

  • coldandnumbcoldandnumb Member CommonPosts: 90

    In my opinion all this article does is back up most of the anti ftp arguements on this site and others and proves that ftp is nothing more then a money grab by the  devs and that players who do use the item shops will be spending more per month then if they went with a standard sub game.

    I like to use the old saying to sum it up "a fool and his money are soon parted"

    image
  • Sirr0Sirr0 Member Posts: 55

    Straight F2P will always look to me like a shoddy way to run an MMO to me. I have yet to experience one that didn't have poor support/crappy item shops or absolutely no real interaction with players.  I think Tiered  subscriptions is the only logical way to go from pure P2P.   

    You have consistant income, you don't need game changing item shops like in F2P and you have people less likely to outright abandon your game like in P2P for the reasons they usually do.   I guess now it's a wait and see with Everquest 2 if it will have the same effect it did on LOTR,  if anything it might fair better considering how much content is in EQ2.

  • SarrSarr Member UncommonPosts: 466

    DDO is now one of the most popular MMO games ever. Wake up, it's that way for strong and good reasons. Just check it out with some parties.

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  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278

    Originally posted by Sarr

    DDO is now one of the most popular MMO games ever.

    Care to back that statement up?  Yes it did have an amazing comeback, but from what? It was in the sh*tter before it went FTP.

    A 400% gain from nothing is nothing.

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek Member UncommonPosts: 1,258


    The shift, which game companies in Asia figured out years ago, underscores how broadly a once foreign-seeming approach to business is coming to permeate the games industry. U.S. games companies are far more dependent on retail sales of software in stores than their counterparts in Korea and China, where rampant software piracy forced local companies to be more inventive about making money through methods like virtual goods sales.

    Sotfware piracy is irrelevant, you buy a key to unlock the account, it's not a reason that would wash.

    image
  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

    Originally posted by Sarr

    DDO is now one of the most popular MMO games ever. Wake up, it's that way for strong and good reasons. Just check it out with some parties.

    I do agree with this. After playing just about all MMOs out there is has to be the, at least, 3rd most populated in the Western market. Maybe even more than EVE, maybe not. Groups are very easy to get together, unlike every MMO out there except WoW.

     

    DDO playstyle and its hybrid payment model work well. F2P eastern games are pure garbage. It has more to do with gamplay that DDO has seen a resurrgence. I know the hybrid model has brought in a lot of people, but ultimately its the gameplay that makes people stick around. A lot of F2P games don't have that. 

     

    DDO has two communities; f2p and p2p. P2P is much larger than it used to be, and f2p are generally ignored and shunned.

     

    I'm interested to see how this plays out in LOTRO. I doubt it increases its p2p crowd much, and the f2p players are just worthless to other players(mostly kids) and the company. Then, again, LOTRO is an extremely easy game to grasp, so there may not be such a gap like in DDO(where it takes skill and dedication).

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,022

    OH well if this is the way gaming is going, I got a feeling that a lot of folks are not going to be gaming. I think were in fro an mmo crash.

  • CodenakCodenak Member UncommonPosts: 418

    We are only at the beginning of F2P for western MMO's, the actual proof of their success in the MMORPG genre will be if they can last over time, or if as i suspect, they become P2W and drive players away. For so many companies to leap on the bandwagon so early may be something they come to regret, as their reputations depend on what they do in the future with this.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278

    Originally posted by brostyn

     I'm interested to see how this plays out in LOTRO. I doubt it increases its p2p crowd much, and the f2p players are just worthless to other players(mostly kids) and the company. Then, again, LOTRO is an extremely easy game to grasp, so there may not be such a gap like in DDO(where it takes skill and dedication).

    I too am interested to see how LOTRO turns out. For the reasons you mentioned, and the fact that unlike DDO was before the switch, LOTRO is currently healthy (pre-F2P). 

  • NytakitoNytakito Member Posts: 381

    Sitting up and taking notice of something doesn't mean it's good.

    The problem is really a difference in eastern and western cultures.

    Marketting F2P in America is akin to starting a Save the Whales campaign in Japan, it's just not gonna work until society changes their perception of the subject.  And I don't see westerners giving up their $15/month. 

    "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by erictlewis

    OH well if this is the way gaming is going, I got a feeling that a lot of folks are not going to be gaming. I think were in fro an mmo crash.

    I don't believe that will be the case at all.

    How significant are traditional, old school mmo players in comparison to a newer generation of online players?



    More and more people are playing these games and more and more people are playing them without expectations as to what business model is "the best".



    If they deem the price right they will pay it.



    In some ways I think the upcoming LOTRO f2p release will be very telling as it is a game that falls into the more traditional, wider world mmo convention. If their numbers sky rocket, other game companies will be assured that it is a new future for a different pricing model.



    Lightning can strike once but can it strike twice?



    Another thing to consider is that people have been paying additional money outside of the normal subscriptions to secondary parties selling gold and items and power leveling.



    It's already proven that people are willing to pay additional money on top of their subscription. This is just a game company's way of making sure they get some of that money. Not to say that the secondary market will go away but if a person can buy xp potions to speed up leveling or Items to make them more effective like buff potions, then the need to buy power leveling and gold might go down a bit.



    The original old school mmo players are not calling the shots on this thing. Online gaming has been found by non-gamers and I don't believe they are going away any time soon.

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  • GustavoMGustavoM Member Posts: 16
    DDO and Everquest are not switching to "-FREE- to play". Since when you can say It's -FREE- to play when you -HAVE- to -PAY- to get additional content? That's pretty much like a limited trial to me.

    And In a serious note: If MMO's goes down like that and It resumes into the one who pays for more items at the cash shop Is the one who'll win, I'll simply switch to another gaming genre and consider MMORPG's as the "capitalism" genre. 'Cause I'm not gonna waste more than 1000 $ to upgrade a toon, lulz.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by GustavoM

    DDO and Everquest are not switching to "-FREE- to play". Since when you can say It's -FREE- to play when you -HAVE- to -PAY- to get additional content? That's pretty much like a limited trial to me. And In a serious note: If MMO's goes down like that and It resumes into the one who pays for more items at the cash shop Is the one who'll win, I'll simply switch to another gaming genre and consider MMORPG's as the "capitalism" genre. 'Cause I'm not gonna waste more than 1000 $ to upgrade a toon, lulz.

    Well, I've played DDO very casually and I play lotro (though I haven't been in game for a bit as I have no time at the moment) and it is possible to play without paying anything. I think I did pay about 10 dollars total in DDO.

    One will go slower but it can be done. And it seems one earns turbine points at certain points in the game so one could feasibly save those up and use them to unlock content.

    So, if a person was happy with that type of progression they could play to their heart's content without spending a dime.

    Of course, Turbine is betting that people will want to spend money on some things and that some people won't mind spending a lot of money.

    I haven't looked closely at the EQ 2 system to make an constructive comments.

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  • Xerxes0Xerxes0 Member Posts: 4

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    In some ways I think the upcoming LOTRO f2p release will be very telling as it is a game that falls into the more traditional, wider world mmo convention. If their numbers sky rocket, other game companies will be assured that it is a new future for a different pricing model.

    Another thing to consider is that people have been paying additional money outside of the normal subscriptions to secondary parties selling gold and items and power leveling.

    We will never see the real results, we will get the propaganda. We will be told that it is the greatest thing since ice cream!! Turbine recently posted the Beta Feedback for the new store and they posted only the fanboi responses. The forum response has been incredibly negatiive, but rest assured - The store is selling everything, pay2win, not pay2play. Faction reputation will be worthless, considering all the reputation, enhancement, class skills, etc. will be available in the store.

    The store reeks of money grab. Turbine is setting themselves up as the goldseller, no need to buy gold when everything can be purchased from the store.

    Convienience over Advantage - such BS.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by Xerxes0

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    In some ways I think the upcoming LOTRO f2p release will be very telling as it is a game that falls into the more traditional, wider world mmo convention. If their numbers sky rocket, other game companies will be assured that it is a new future for a different pricing model.

    Another thing to consider is that people have been paying additional money outside of the normal subscriptions to secondary parties selling gold and items and power leveling.

    We will never see the real results, we will get the propaganda. We will be told that it is the greatest thing since ice cream!! Turbine recently posted the Beta Feedback for the new store and they posted only the fanboi responses. The forum response has been incredibly negatiive, but rest assured - The store is selling everything, pay2win, not pay2play. Faction reputation will be worthless, considering all the reputation, enhancement, class skills, etc. will be available in the store.

    The store reeks of money grab. Turbine is setting themselves up as the goldseller, no need to buy gold when everything can be purchased from the store.

    Convienience over Advantage - such BS.

    It's not quite that bad but it does seem like there are a few things in the store that will raise eye brows. But I wouldn't say that the entire store is "pay to win". Especially when quite a few things in the store can be gotten in game by spending destiny points.

    Of course, the other thing is what will the store look like a year from launch?

    as far as seeing the propaganda, that's par for the course. What company doesn't tout its products and downplay its failures?

    Or they bring their failures to the forefront but use it as a marketing tool to build good will. There's always an angle (as my grandfather would say).

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  • nickster29nickster29 Member Posts: 486

       Here is my take on the F2P market.  From a gamer's standpoint, it is a mixed bag of decent games and games I wouldn't come near with a two meter cattle prod.  From a business man's standpoint, the F2P market is absolutely a wonderful place to be for some companies, depending on the exposure you can get for your game.  If you can interface a game, even one that is quite boring (aka Farmville) with an extremely popular social networking site such as Facebook, you are going to get a massive amount of exposure, which leads to sales.

       I used to be a huge fan of subscriptions, keeping out the cheaters, spammers and bots.  Now, I tend to be able to ignore them.  I will still play subscription based games, FFXIV being one of the games I will be playing, but I tend to prefer games that are Buy 2 Play such as Guild Wars.

       I really think that Buy2Play + Cash Shop (Cosmetic items only, nothing that can actually provide stat buffs) would be ideal.  The up-front box costs will help keep alot of the spammers, cheaters, and bots from flooding the game.  People would really have no reason to "quit" the game considering there is no monthly sub to worry about, and the sale of cosmetic items from the cash shop would provide a steady cash flow to help with content development and game management.  The removal of monthly fees would most likely help with population retention also, which in itself will act as population retention.  After all, who wants to play an empty game?

     

    But the first thing that needs to be done is this:  Make sure the game is FUN!

  • zehamberglarzehamberglar Member UncommonPosts: 27

    I think anyone who says that "F2P just plain sucks" is just an elitist snob who can't deal with the fact that their P2P MMOs are being phased out by the more useful F2P model.

    I beg of you, all you P2P elitists. Just go try DDO. It's a great game and guess what? Everyone who's not blind can see that their payment model is the greatest idea the industry has had.

    And stop making the "official goldseller" argument. All good F2P games DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO BUY THE BEST GEAR. The closest thing is getting 40% bonus exp potions.

    If you think that leveling with a 40% boost is a gamebreaker... go play WoW and have fun with your time and money sink. You're an idiot if you think that microtransactions mean you pay more for less. $15/month for WoW is the real scam. If you have a bad month at home, and maybe you don't have as much money to spend on games... do you really think that being demanded $15/month is what you're after? No. Guess what? You can't cut back on your subscription fee w/o cancelling it.

    At which point you're no longer playing, and your whole "P2P is better" argument goes out the window. At least with F2P games, you can actually play if you can no longer afford your microtransaction purchases. You just stop buying them for the time being, but you can still enjoy all your past purchases with no guilt fee, with no expectation, with no obligation. I'm not saying i should be proud of being poor, but i'm a college student. I don't have $15 to spare every month just for one game. Luckily, since i'm not a slave to the P2P image, I understand that you don't have to be subscribe to get a good game.

    I'm not trying to change your mind. If WoW makes you happy, go for it. But don't shit on our parade because you can't deal with the changing times.

  • bronecarbronecar Member Posts: 685

    Well, I'm only interested in a single upcoming F2P game, or, as someone else stated, B2P - buy to play, and that is GW2. This game will shine in the F2P market image

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by bronecar

    Well, I'm only interested in a single upcoming F2P game, or, as someone else stated, B2P - buy to play, and that is GW2. This game will shine in the F2P market image

    It probably will. But it's important to note that the original GW has a store and it sells things like skill packs among other things. I'm sure there are people who think that is bypassing the playing of the game.

    I have no reason to believe that GW 2 won't follow the same type of items in their store.

    There's always going to be somethign that will seem wrong for some people. No way around it.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

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    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • KookasKookas Member Posts: 39

    It’s real simple, if you respect your game and the effort players put into it, F2P is the same as cheating.  If the industry is all about stealing as much money from players for shiny stuff, we will be better off quitting their games and taking our escapism to the strip club 8)

    * I read most of what Jon Wood writes
    * He needs more bullet points though

  • SlackerboySlackerboy Member Posts: 142

    Do you ever get the feeling mmorpg.com has a vested intrest in the F2P market? Seems like every other story they put out here of late is about how great F2P is... while I have still yet to see a F2P game worth the price. (Ok, maybe DDO)

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Sarr

    DDO is now one of the most popular MMO games ever. Wake up, it's that way for strong and good reasons. Just check it out with some parties.

    While I'm happy that they managed to turn things around for DDO by going F2P, I'd not call it one of "the most popular MMO's ever".  That would be World of Warcraft by a rather large margin.  But DDO has demonstrated that if done right, that a F2P game can be quite a sucess in the western markets.

    I just wish they would fix their BSOD error 116 problem.  For more than a year and a half now(no matter what driver I use) I get a BSOD error 116 error within a minute or two of starting. I have the same problem with Lord of the Ring Online(so I suspect its the same issue).  Those two are the only games that have ever caused this problem.  Its too bad, as I quite enjoyed both games when I played them at launch (I didn't have the error then).

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • Sevey13Sevey13 Member Posts: 14

    Does the WSJ not have a spell check function?

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Honestly who cares.  The Wall Street journal is a rag, and when it comes to its relevance to gaming it is an even bigger joke.

     

    Investors are ruining gaming though, this is not news.  They are determined to burst this bubble (video gaming, and MMO's in particular that is) just like they ruined the web bubble over a decade ago.

     

    The "free to play" craze is no different from the thousands of dancing hamster websites and other similiarly useless websites that caused the .com bubble to burst so spectacularly.

     

    It eventually recovered, as will video games, but likely not before all those on wall street have a turn at her in the gang rape of all that is artistic and halfway decent in this industry that is.... publicly traded game design houses.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    Originally posted by Kookas


    It’s real simple, if you respect your game and the effort players put into it, F2P is the same as cheating.  If the industry is all about stealing as much money from players for shiny stuff, we will be better off quitting their games and taking our escapism to the strip club 8)

     Guess i need to explain this one again as i have many times before:

    Cheat - To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

    See, thing is YOU do not make the rules of these games, the devs do. When it comes to a particular MMO, the devs are our god, our government, our judicial system, etc and they make and enforce the rules, not you. If you want to impose rules on yourself, go right ahead, but do not try to impose your made up rules on others. If the rules of the game say it is ok to spend $ for something in game, then it is no longer cheating. You may not like it, but it's the truth. As for respecting the game and the effort of the players... have you ever even played an F2P game before? Do you not realize that the majority of people spending the highest amount of money ar ethe most dedicated and hardcore players who are not only putting in way more time and effort into the game, but also more money. Should they not receive comparable rewards/advantages? Wouldnt not giving advantages to those players over those who put in little time and no money be an insult to those people's efforts?

    As for the devs "stealing" money....  Steal - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

    Do you just whip out your credit card and punch in your info as a reflex to every single ad you see on the internet? Did you send in your CC info to the devs and start seeing a bunch of mysterious charges that you were unaware of and did not give permission for? No? Then what's being "stolen"?

    Like i tell everyone, learn some self control. Learn to analyze things and make rational decisions wether or not something is worth spending $ on. You feel that special item is worth $10 and have the extra money to spend? Go right ahead, and be happy with the informed purchase you made of your own free will. Don't feel something is worth the $10 but you buy it anyway, and then bitch bitch bitch about how they "stole" your money... sounds more like someone needs to get a grip on reality than any form of deceipt or stealing.

    The majority of us are intelligent enough to make these rational decisions wether or not we should spend any money and wether or not what we are buying is worth it. If you and others are not capable of such things, and you actually need someone to hold your hand and tell you "you should only be spending X amount per month", then thats a personal problem, not the problem of the devs.

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