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General: Women in the Industry
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
After interest in 'behind the scenes' activities in game development was kindled by one of Angie Webb's recent columns, she made the decision to give readers more insight. Over the next few columns, Angie will be featuring prominent women in game development and about the industry in which they work. Check out Angie's latest, a chat with Camille Chu (animator), Georgia Nelson (software engineer), and Rebecca Orozco (producer).
A couple of weeks ago I did an article about what it was like to work in a QA department. There seemed to be some genuine interest about what goes on behind the scenes so, for this and upcoming articles, I have decided to do something similar. I’ll be contacting women who work in the MMO industry to see if they would talk a little about how they got started and what the industry is like.
Read Angie Webb: In Her Opinion.
Comments
"Recent estimates have the percentage of women that game at about 50%. However, most studios have less than 20% female employees. What do you think can be done to make a career in video games more appealing to women?"
That is a misleading way of phrasing that. Those estimates show that the casual/facebook games market is dominated by women players, where as the more traditional games are still dominated by men players. There are lots of women and families that play the wii, but only a small percentage of women play XBox or PS.
Those casual games take only a few people to make (sometimes only 1 person), where as the traditional games take big studios to pump out games. This means the majority of the video game jobs deal with making the games that are mostly played by men. That in turn means it makes sense for the majority of video game jobs to still be held by men. As more women move into traditional video games and start moving their percentage up, the amount of women in the jobs that create those games will go up.
Overall the way you phrased your statement came off very biased. It made it seem like the majority of ALL types of video games are played by women but that there are very few women working on them, which isn't a correct view.
I really can't wait until we have true parity in the work force. I'm sick of hearing and reading this battle of the sexes crap. Sexism isn't relevant anymore in America, in fact, I'd say that with this "affirmative action for women" bullshit going on; women are given the upper hand in pursuing the career of their choice.
Boy vs Girl crapola is so 80s... Let's evolve, shall we?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"The game industry isn't all fun"
Take out the word 'all' and I'll agree with that statement. Time constraints, budget changes, massive competiton in the ranks due to the fact you know you could be replaced by a hotshot eighteen year old fresh out of school who will do your job for roughy half what you get paid. Rampant egotisim. Stress. And worst of all, being under the thumb of some micromanaging dickweeds who know not one damn thing about the gaming industry, but are in charge because of their managerial and accounting degrees. And heaven help you if on top of this rubbish you are attached to an IP that has its own minders (Lucas Arts, Games Workshop. etc..) who continually want to put their fingers in the pie as well.
Sorry but while it seems a noble cause, getting more females into the gaming industry is far from the biggest hurtle the industry currently faces.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I have been in the game industry for fifteen years in Northern California. My first company was heavy with animators and made games for kids. About half of the crew were women, if not more. But in most companies, women seem to all be in HR and Marketing still. It is changing slowly, but too slow in my opinion.
On a related note, I hope someone will explore the elephant in the room on race. Every game company I have ever been in seems to be all Whites and Asians. The non-game companies also tend to have engineers from India. But where is everyone else? My black friends don't have an answer to this one either. We know that black and hispanic kids play games, so why don't they make them with us when they grow up ? It's a riddle.
Square-Enix is full of women making their MMO's. The lead story writer is a woman, like half of the translators are women, animation team too.. It's easy to spot the difference between Korea and Japan as far as the female characters go. Korea is full of horny young guys at least from the looks of it, while S-E's style is more "reserved" with no huge boobs giant asses and less revealing armor.
The animations (and visual style in general) are usually top-notch too, while male-heavy companies tend to focus on the technical side more than anything. Coincidence? I think not.
/sigh women
Can't live with them, can't live with out them. Hahaha
But on a serious note, I know a couple of gamer girls that are better than me at games. I'm very open to accepting more women to the industry, and to just play games. Especially, hot ones, if you know what I mean. ;p Darn my one track mind. lol
its also diferent cultures, and diferent scope they try to score. a FF game is normally for all family (or with that in mind) so they will make things more reserved, in other hand a lot of koreans mmo are for more dudes 14+ even if women plays they are not trying to get then so female armor try to show more skin.
stil I find it amusing because only womens now still care about this war of sexes thing or" we need more women on the market X", really move on any one who only cares about his sex or skin color should rethinks the way he do things
100% agreed and /applause
I agree with this. Facebook games, and pretty pretty princess dressup games like IMVU should not be counted in this statistic. If so, then the entire concept of gamers and videogames needs to be redefined.
I may be called sexist for this, but the fact of the matter is, men still dominate the gaming scene on PC, XBOX, PS3 because men like videogames more than women (in the large general scale) simple as that.
The % of men to women ratio in the development teams will always reflect this. If there was a substantial market for "feminine" minded gameplay, we would see a large increase in feminine minded developers.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Only a 'small percentage' of women play the Xbox or PS3? Would you care to back that up with some real percentages or is this just your 'best guess' based on your llittle part of the world?
I was playing Pong and Magnavox Odyssey before you were even born. I'd destroyed millions of Asteroids before you left diapers. I grew up gaming on Atari with my sisters. We still game together, as a matter of fact. I play on PC, DS, Wii, Xbox, and PS. I ignore the social games on facebook--I don't find them terribly entertaining I play MMOs, RPGs, and a few shooters, a lot more of the first 2 than the FPS. After blowing up millions of Asteroids, it's just not that interesting, no matter what story gets attached--you're still shooting something ad nauseum. Also, my reflexes are not what they were 20 years ago, and being reminded of that is not so fun. However, I was drooling over the Black Ops trailer at E3 and can't wait to get that game.
As a female gamer for a very long time, I podcast about gaming with another female gamer and several male gamers (Lucascast.net). I see plenty of females buying games in Gamestop and other retail outlets--games these _women_ plan to play, not games they're buying for their boy children. Both my kids (one male, one female) play PC games, xBox,, Wii, and PS. We game together instead of watching TV together at night. I converse with female gamers on a regular basis on Lucasforums and Lotus Fleet. Many of us play on XBox or PS3 as well as PC, as well as Wii. I've even spent time modding The Sith Lords on PC. Your gross overgeneralization about famale gamers has led you to some incorrect conclusions, and has led you to take a biased and unfair view in your reading of this article.
I also take issue with your assumption that in order for a game to be any good for males, it must be designed for males, and for it to be any good for females, it has to be designed for females. That idea is a load of complete crap. I'm not a better doctor to my female patients than my male patients because I'm a female. Why would anyone design or code a game differently based on their gender? Where exactly does gender contribute or not contribute to software engineering? A good game story is a good game story, regardless of the gender of the author. I will give you the fact that males and females do process things somewhat differently, but it's not that huge a difference. The hardest thing I've had trouble with, actually, is in the hardware. My hands are small compared to most males, and most remotes and mice are too big for my hands and actually make them ache after gaming a long time. This is where having some female parity would be especially helpful, because that kind of thing would get caught in development.
Should we have more parity in the genders in gaming development? Absolutely. Those slight differences in perspective can bring new facets to the game that might not have been considered otherwise. This benefits not only female players, but males as well.
Pot calling the kettle black. You don't know him. You don't know how old he was when you were playing pong. Your 'gross' generalization about his life is as bad if not worse than his generalization about women gamers. Just because you broke the mold doesn't change what we all know and see daily. Great, you're an exception. A mom who loves gaming. Bravo....
Now let's get a show of o/'s for all those who know moms like this. (*cricket sounds im sure, with no hands raised*)
Yes, there are women gamers out there... millions. But there are probably 1-2 billion males that are gamers... no i don't have EXACT numbers, and neither do you... but i'm being realistic. You aren't. You know darn well that the majority of gamers are not women.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
What was the point of this article? Are you trying to hint that there is some injustice being done by having unequal employment ratios in this industry?
OK then. How about we have more female garbage collectors, too? That is a job that is grossly over represented by men.
Not appealling? I get it. There's only a problem if the job is glamourous.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Actually, I do know his age--it's in his profile, so yes, I know he wasn't born when I was playing Pac-Man, Centipede, and assorted other games. This is, of course, assuming he hasn't lied about his birthdate, given that this is the interwebz. If you'd taken a moment to research his profile as I had, you'd have known this before responding.
You've also missed the major point of my post--parity brings things to games that might not be there if they're dominated in production by either males or females.
Talking about women on the internet is one of the oldest troll tricks in the book. The men, boys, and the in-between on the internet -- and the many girls/in-between who try to be accepted into the culture cannot handle it. It's an automatic response, oh no - you're wrong, women lol, get over it, go away this tree house is ours.
My geek friends don't differ from the rest of the population due to gender but because of their inherent geekiness/membership in a sub-culture. Male or female they are all very much geeks. Male individuals dominate certain aspects of the industry because of the cultural norms that are burned into our brains. Oh, most girls only like to play dress-up Facebook Wii Cooking Mama etc games and only guys like to kill stuff in post apocalyptic wastelands. If we change the industry that the culture revolves around, then we can change the culture.
This same topic always pops up in every corner of the internet. Every time the female population/girl gamers is/are mentioned as some sort of separate entity, there's a negative trollerific reaction. There is obviously a problem.
I try to resist commenting on these sorts of threads because I know there is no real point as it is generally twelve year old trolly tree house boys -- I just wish that people would recognize that if we could change the institution then we could change the culture and everyone would benefit.
We could have more Felicia Days guys, how can that be a bad thing? Anyways, 10/10 I raged briefly good job kids.
Remove the word "gaming" and I'll agree with the above statement. I work in the business world of software development, and it faces all the same hurdles<---.
Work 100 hours a week, yet they want to dock you for showing up 15 minutes late one day....
Gotta love it.
I protest.
One job is full of sweat, filth, degradation and involves removing uneeded rubbish from out daily lives.
The other is full of .... sweat, filth, degradation, and involves creating new uneeded rubbish to add to our daily lives.
Being a garbologist might not be the most glamourus of professions, but you have to admit its a hell of a lot more useful than creating mindrot that goes bing.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Actually, i didn't miss any point.
Why should I have taken a moment to research his profile? it's quite pathetic that so many people check people's profiles before they respond to a fracking forum post. You have to research someone first? what for? did he 'QUALIFY'? Does he reach your standards? Gimme a break... In fact, I hope he didn't put his real info in his profile, just for people like you. checking up on, i mean "researching" people's profile just so you can gather some baseless info so you can deliver a cheap witty insult about their personal life to back up your arguement on a subject not relavent to his age in the first place.
I hope your kids are free of this mentality.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Testicles.
That is all.
Oh Im going to try to add this to my signature. Because its true.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
That truly was a classic, well-done mm0wiggins
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
why are people so hell bent on having women devs? maybe they don't want to be devs. have you ever thought of that? why aren't there more men in the perfume sales business? maybe because the majority of men don't have ANY interest in perfume.
the reason there aren't as many girl devs is because the majority of gamers are men. i'm not saying they don't play games, i'm sure plenty do, but overall more men play games then women.
why do they insist on making this into a battle? nobody is stopping women from playing/making games. you're just telling yourself that. it's nobodys fault but your own.
People often mistake what THEY do to be what the MAJORITY do. Ok so you are a female who plays a lot of games, has for a long time, and plays the more traditional video games. That's great, it doesn't come close to making it a majority. Plenty of research studies have been released this year alone that show the break down of m/f gamers along with game types and ages. Could I spend the time to look them up? Sure, but I'm not really out to prove something, especially to someone who flies off the handle because they think it's an insult to say the majority doesn't do what they do. You can feel free to look up the research if you are so offended by it, and then yell at the population for not being like you. But either way the facts have been researched and are out there for all to see. It's not an insult to women to say the majority of them don't play Xbox/PS, it is a fact and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with women.
One of those studies just came out within the last couple months too, and guess what? It showed the casual gamer market was majority female and the more serious types of games had a majority male player base. But I'm sure for some reason that would offend you.
Does it always guarantee a better selling game is the people who make the game represent the majority who play that type of game? No. Does it certainly help? Yes. But obviously a female who is into traditional games and understands game design/programming/art etc. and has the skills to produce something, will do as good as a guy who has those skills.
The thing that cracks me up about these forums is anytime someone points out that genders ARE different, and they DO have different gaming preferences, some woman gamer gets offended by it. There is nothing to get offended about, and no one is trying to put women in their place or anything else. Relax and learn the facts and do be offended that you are in the minority of something and not the majority.
So you said "Your gross overgeneralization about famale gamers has led you to some incorrect conclusions, and has led you to take a biased and unfair view in your reading of this article. " To which I counter, no I took a position based off of FACTS and STUDIES. To you I say "Your over-sensitivity to being a woman gamer who does not fit into the style of majority female gamers has caused you to take an EXTREMELY biased read of my post." And that is the truth.
Even I don't know what's in my profile, I don't know how much I filled out. If birthdate/age was required then I filled it in, if not it may not be correct. I am 29 years old, and as wiggins was nice enough to point out, my age isn't relevant to the conversation. But if it helps to have it out there, there you go.
I'm a Male. I Do Notice That Men Think that they Rule the MMO's. I Try to explane I Have Lived in Some of the biggest Cities in the US and Have Been to Many Midnight Sells and the Number of women would knock your Sock's off. Of course they will kid by saying there boy friend or husband prolly sent them. Another BIG Change is that I'm a {Jock} and there are many Cheerleaders who play MMO's it is No more for the Nerdy as they would say."Nerd Rage" I Have Myself been Gaming since the 80's PnP , Ping-Pong, frogger, and of course can't forget Pit Fall. I Know I'm showing my AGE ;-P. The Sterotype of Gamers is so Off,even by fellow gamers that it is Redick.
Playing games and making games are two very very different things.
Just because 50% of gamers are women does not mean 50% of devs should be women. It takes a certain person to put up with an industry like this one and that bill often fits men more than it does women.
Also what about the other jobs in the industry? Why not get more women in the business side of things. Who said that we must have more female coder and artists (not against that but still)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads