What happened to "You buy the game, you pay the monthy fee, you have access to everything, you enjoy the game?"
Bioware, do not delve into this practice.
Bioware! I'm asking you to set a new moral precedent. Is it not better to have happy paying customers than angry paying customers? Attitudes reflect upon the community in and outside of the game.
It's not about morals... it's about money. My advice is you either adapt or uninstall/refuse to buy.
Your advice, I'm sorry to say, is terrible.
When things happen that many people CLEARLY don't like, they aren't just going to sit and suck on it. If that was the case, the US would still be under British control. Things happen that people don't like; people state that they don't like it, group together, and actually make things happen.
I'm sorry that I don't want to just sit around and suck on it. Something as lame as this forum post goes a lot further than you think. People notice and things get done.
Your attitude, as well as many others on this thread, is pretty lazy. I bet people walk all over you.
What happened to "You buy the game, you pay the monthy fee, you have access to everything, you enjoy the game?"
Bioware, do not delve into this practice.
Bioware! I'm asking you to set a new moral precedent. Is it not better to have happy paying customers than angry paying customers? Attitudes reflect upon the community in and outside of the game.
It's not about morals... it's about money. My advice is you either adapt or uninstall/refuse to buy.
Your advice, I'm sorry to say, is terrible.
When things happen that many people CLEARLY don't like, they aren't just going to sit and suck on it. If that was the case, the US would still be under British control. Things happen that people don't like; people state that they don't like it, group together, and actually make things happen.
I'm sorry that I don't want to just sit around and suck on it. Something as lame as this forum post goes a lot further than you think. People notice and things get done.
Your attitude, as well as many others on this thread, is pretty lazy. I bet people walk all over you.
So the other REAL option is to organize ourselves and collectively "suck on it". Unless, of course, you want to storm the Bioware HQ and enforce a new law banning item shops.
You're asking Bioware, to not have paid content over and above the real game?
Seriously? You're asking bioware?
They are pretty much the kings of the hold em and screw em tactic of charging you for useless crap. You not happen to notice how much crap there is for Dragon age or mass effect?
This game will have tons of paid content.
Think about it, the devs and publisher just wanna make money. They wouldn't offer this stuff if people didn't buy it. Blame the players not the devs. It would be easy for people to stop this whole DLC/cash shop craze. Just completely ostricize anyone that has anything from those shops. Refuse to group with them and haze them into the ground so that buying that stuff makes you a pariah.
The cash shops would go away as no one would buy anymore.
You forget the fact that both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are AWESOME games without the addition of any DLC...so yeah it still pisses me off that you have to pay more stuff to extend the game, but at least the standalone product is top quality.
You're asking Bioware, to not have paid content over and above the real game?
Seriously? You're asking bioware?
They are pretty much the kings of the hold em and screw em tactic of charging you for useless crap. You not happen to notice how much crap there is for Dragon age or mass effect?
This game will have tons of paid content.
Think about it, the devs and publisher just wanna make money. They wouldn't offer this stuff if people didn't buy it. Blame the players not the devs. It would be easy for people to stop this whole DLC/cash shop craze. Just completely ostricize anyone that has anything from those shops. Refuse to group with them and haze them into the ground so that buying that stuff makes you a pariah.
The cash shops would go away as no one would buy anymore.
You forget the fact that both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are AWESOME games without the addition of any DLC...so yeah it still pisses me off that you have to pay more stuff to extend the game, but at least the standalone product is top quality.
awesome?, nah just generic, they did not bring anything new to the table, its was done before, they are good but awesome not that much
I thought ME2 was pretty awesome, and although it isn't as open sandboxy like a Reed Dead Redemption, I can't recall many other games doing the same as ME2 did.
I guess it's a matter of taste, and tastes differ.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
so long as you dont have to get the cash gear it wont be a problem atleast for me. I mean more then half of the other guys will run around with that kind of gear anyway. Its when the items sold are superior to normal gear that its pissing me off, it happens once in a while you see this armour piece that would be perfect.. just that you cant get it.
Like many have pointed out though this will be heavy, take ME and DA for example with tons of new DLC substandard content. As TOR will be an mmo Im not worried about them applying DLC to TOR but Im a bit worried that some compnanions/crew members/ships etc will be, not just weapons or armour.
Il be honest though its not that much of a big deal anyway, sure itl suck but if the rest of the game makes up for its flaw I wont mind subscribing. The game has not yet come out so its hard to speculate wether itl be a thorn in the side or a minor nuisance, only time will tell
I agree with this. As long as the store does not sell weapons or armor better than stuff you can get in game, or the best stuff is bought not earned, people and fans can buy all the fluff and magical shiny costumes they want.
I've found most cash shops don't really influence the game at all. The items sold are generally not very impactful and are usually just fluff for those who really enjoy the game and are willing to shell out some money in support of these aesthetic features, or consumables, which barely impact gameplay at all. People should relax about this stuff, we know nothing about it and speculation is not helping anyone.
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
To counter that .. millions happily purchased the $25 mount in WOW. So if Blizz is doing it, it is hard to expect other companies not to.
Millions purchased it? lol
Show me stats before you start quoting figures.
I wouldn't doubt it if that isn't far off. Day one sales put it at nearly a quarter million purchases since within afew hours there was over 170k people waiting in que to get it. That doesn't even count the people that had already made it through the que.
Hmmmmmm, last i checked all the games that you pay a monthly fee for you still get FULL access.
DLC's are becoming more common for alot of games, onlinestores are as well.
But comparing DDO a game that is now F2P with limitations or LOTR which will be the same BUT....if you are paying a monthly/lifetime or whatever fee you get all the options . Fluff is now becoming optional cash grabs, and it sure as hell not just Bioware.
So what makes the person who pays the 15$ to play 24hrs a day with full access, different from the person who doesnt but has to pay for content options? well the one who pays for content later pays more in the end but can at thier own leisure.
But its OPTIONAL.
Welcome to just about anything in the world, from gym memberships to cars or most forms of entertainment. You do it if you can afford it but there are many options in how you pay or play.
Video games are just catching on now that its such a giant industry.
Some of you see only the TURN but not the road ahead.
yes its only a cash shop with cosmetic items. Yes doesnt really affect the game much. Sure but does it ever end there. Will it stop there? Most likely not.
what you got here is what we call is the COMMONWEALTH EDISON syndrome.
Commonwealth edison was first company to ever pull this stunt. What they do is jack the prices up so high.. and leave it there for awhile... till enough people complain. THen they bring the price back down... but its higher then its original state. People are happy.
see they just increased the price and people are happy about it.
gas companies seem to be doing this too.
but what these MMOs are doing is getting you use to the cash shops... accepting them in the games. But watch out for the road ahead. you say they are just cosmetics now. But after it becomes a norm to have these cash shops you are stuck with its reigns. They will eventually sell more then jsut cosmetic stuff. and still charge you that monthly fee because they know you will.
problem is poeple dont see this. You dont see where these MMOs are heading. They know being a shopaholic is a disease too. People love to shop. SO they will buy. and still get that 15 dollars a month.
a person said about 10 years ago to now we should have increases in sub... we did. it went from $9.99 to $14.99 or $15.99
funny thing is.. its cheaper now to get bandwidth then it was in the past.
parts to make a server are also cheaper now and better. more efficient.
so i wouldnt say they NEED to raise the prices. These companies are still walking away with millions. And bioware being the most expensive game produced... well they are taking a HUGE gamble. They are seriously thinking they will be the next WOW. Good luck to them.
The MMO genre is an extremely fickle and picky crowd.
but me and others im sure. Will not be subbing if a game has a cash shop. IF SWTOR has a cash shop. I wont be buying the game. I didnt buy STO for exact same reason.
cosmetic or not... i dont think its right when i pay a monthly sub. If i didnt pay a monthly sub then yes cash shop is needed.
Bioware! I'm asking you to set a new moral precedent. Is it not better to have happy paying customers than angry paying customers? Attitudes reflect upon the community in and outside of the game.
It's a business like any other. You can't reall be an angry paying customer. If you are REALLY angry, you won't pay anymore.
Vote with your wallet. If TOR has a cash shop, I won't play. If they have no cash shop, I'll give it a whorl. If they ad a cash shop later, I'll quit.
If they want to go for the cash shop business and forgo my subscription fee, that's their business decision to make.
This goes to both of you.
If it's merely aesthetic gear and whatnot that we're talking about, who cares? If it doesn't add to your performance, but only your looks, then just shrug it off.
However, if BW does release a cash shop that has better gear and whatnots to purchase, I will /quitgameforever, and in-turn, never play another BW MMO. Ever. Again. I don't foresee them being stupid enough to make this all about money. And if they do, shame on them.
This franchise used to be about entertainment. More and more, it's become a cash machine. If Activision was involved, I wouldn't have paid any mind to this game, but thankfully they're not. And even though EA is involved, they're not as callous as the afore mentioned.
I have no problem with them charging for aesthetic-only items. Yes, I think it is somewhat immoral when they are charging a monthly fee, but these items do not alter the game landscape, and they are an extra revenue source.
Of course, I've said it before, I am in love with Anets Buy To Play business model. You buy the game, so the company gets some capital up front. You are paying for a quality, well-developed game with some real effort into it (read: better than F2P crap that I hate by and large, and even if I like, has very low polish and production value), and you feel like you are paying to play a game, which is the way things should be, to my mind.
After that, you do not pay a monthy fee for the right to access the game you paid to play. I know that servers cost money, but making us feel like we are paying for rent in our game world is unpleasant, for me anyway.
Now, you can charge for any major content update, and the player can choose to have it or not (unlike subscription games, where some content is added for free), though of course they could choose to add free content for whatever reason, on a case-by-case basis. You can also charge for aesthetic items, perhaps even in-game housing. Anet charges for costumes, skill packs, character and bank slots, none of which changes the face of the game world or gives a direct advantage. And yet, with an expansion on a more regular basis than subscription games (in theory), and many if not most players buying extras, you will come up with a decent bit of money anyway, and the players did not feel forced to pay, and they can log on whenever they want without renting their game.
It is win-win, and it is a simply great idea. I know if I had had to pay a subscription for GW, I would still have bought the expansions, but I would not have bought my Shining Blade outfit, or my several extra character slots, or my Prophecies skill unlock. I would have played off and on here and there, and they probably would have ended up with roughly the same amount of my money. The difference is that I could check in on the game when I wanted, drop an hour here, wait a week, and drop another hour. I felt no need or pressure to be in the game, doing things. It was a choice for my leisure time, and not something I was renting, and as such felt obligated to use.
I realise that this ended up being quite long. I apologise.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
What happened to "You buy the game, you pay the monthy fee, you have access to everything, you enjoy the game?"
Bioware, do not delve into this practice.
My example below is of EverQuest II.
I remember browsing the broker - looking for some nice duds to outfit my aesthetic slots. This one particular player ran by me wearing the following:
I've never seen it before; I wanted it...bad. I messaged him and asked him which quest he had to do to get that. He had told me that he purchased it from the MarketPlace with Station Cash.
I was honestly angered. I had already purchased The Collector's Edition, The Bloodline Chronicles, The Splitpaw Saga, Desert of Flames, Kingdom of Sky, The Fallen Dynasty, Echoes of Faydwer, Rise of Kunark etc. Also, let's not forget about the $14.99 monthly fee - for years.
The above is understandable, as it's pretty standard to purchase the game, expansions, and monthly fee. However, shouldn't I have access to the full game? That's not the case, seeing as I have to pay more money for aesthetic gear and/or pots.
Am I forced to purchase the gear? Yes, in a way. As I stated earlier, I really wanted the pictured gear above. Could I dedicate some serious time and raid for it? No. Could I earn it from endless battle via Battlegrounds? No. The only way to obtain it is to provide SOE with real cash.
Star Trek online tried something similar. They were also a Pay to Play game with Item Shop. They knew how passionate their fanbase would be; thus, they charged extra money in order for you to play as a Klingon, one of the most sought after races in the entire franchise. Moreover, they stipulated that the only way to play as a Borg (another major entity in STO), you had to purchase their $300 lifetime subscription...before the game even started.
As bad as I hate to say it, I enjoyed watching that game fall. There comes a time where enough is enough. I understand that it's a profitable business model. However, nickel & diming structures will almost always cause some sort of animosity.
Bioware! I'm asking you to set a new moral precedent. Is it not better to have happy paying customers than angry paying customers? Attitudes reflect upon the community in and outside of the game.
I completely and totally agree with you. What happened is greed. I'm hoping Bioware will be bright enough that they won't fall into this trap. I'd rather pay $20 a month than have the garbage that EQ2 just pulled.
However..... this isn't the games forums. Chances are that Bioware won't even see what you just posted. How about you go to THEIR official forums and say this?
I think they will have paid content above the sub. I "thought" that there was already a mention somewhere that they were considering some sort of store. Could be wrong on that but I thought I had seen some mention.
As far as another's thougth on "being robbed" and not getting the full game...
Players are getting the full game. What they are not getting is the "added" stuff that the game company has deemed as "extra".
If I pay my cable bill should I not get everything that is on? Apparently not as there are "special movies" and "special events".
Those are extra. The company has deemed them as extra. There very well (in the case of cable) may be extra costs to carry those items.
This is why (for the most part) I like the Turbine idea of a store as everything in that store is obtainable by playing the game.
It's people like you that these publishers love. You think this stuff is extra and it's ok to pay. I hate to tell you but there was a time, laughably enough just 5 years ago or so when games shipped content complete. You didn't have to pay extra for crap that was developed alongside the game and purposely left out so they could nickle and dime you after the game is released.
This whole DLC/cash shop model that currently exists benefits NO ONE except pubs and developers as it allows them to take this that were done during normal development and then charge you extra earning extra revenue for their game without actually having to release a new game. It's a completely bull business model and stupidly enough players are falling for it. If you look at the actual price of DLC and what you get for it the entire gaming community should be outraged, but they have been slowly acclimatizing you to the trend and now it seems OK to alot of people and frankly it's not. People like you are setting the trend for this to get worse and worse and pretty soon the amount you'll pay to play one game will be retardedly higher than it is now.
People need to speak and like another poster said make the people that buy this crap pariahs in the community and force the developers to act.
I've found most cash shops don't really influence the game at all. The items sold are generally not very impactful and are usually just fluff for those who really enjoy the game and are willing to shell out some money in support of these aesthetic features, or consumables, which barely impact gameplay at all. People should relax about this stuff, we know nothing about it and speculation is not helping anyone.
Real world currency in the game destroys my immersion. Don't want to play games with a cash shop, period.
I dont' enjoy it.
If you like cash shops, that's fine.
IMO, they should make games for you, and games for me. One with a cash shop, one without. I will happily pay a monthly sub for a good game with no cash shop.
I will not play a game with a cash shop.
Why? Because we play games for fun, and I don't have fun in a game with a cash shop. It makes me think about money, and I dn't want to think about money in a game.
Bioware! I'm asking you to set a new moral precedent. Is it not better to have happy paying customers than angry paying customers? Attitudes reflect upon the community in and outside of the game.
It's a business like any other. You can't reall be an angry paying customer. If you are REALLY angry, you won't pay anymore.
Vote with your wallet. If TOR has a cash shop, I won't play. If they have no cash shop, I'll give it a whorl. If they ad a cash shop later, I'll quit.
If they want to go for the cash shop business and forgo my subscription fee, that's their business decision to make.
This goes to both of you.
If it's merely aesthetic gear and whatnot that we're talking about, who cares? If it doesn't add to your performance, but only your looks, then just shrug it off.
However, if BW does release a cash shop that has better gear and whatnots to purchase, I will /quitgameforever, and in-turn, never play another BW MMO. Ever. Again. I don't foresee them being stupid enough to make this all about money. And if they do, shame on them.
This franchise used to be about entertainment. More and more, it's become a cash machine. If Activision was involved, I wouldn't have paid any mind to this game, but thankfully they're not. And even though EA is involved, they're not as callous as the afore mentioned.
I don't like to think about money in a game. Cash shops put real life currency into the game.
I can't "shrug it off" if there is a cash shop in the game, then there is real life money in the game, then I will think about money instead of playing a fun game.
It's not about "performance".
It's about being in a game world, where dollars do not exist, but credits, or gold pieces do. THAT is fun for me.
The minute you put dollars into the game, inside the actual gameworld, well I might as well just go to the mall, or go to my job. Now it's about money.
Oy. I'd have thought this would be obvious. EQ2 (not EQ) just went f2p after 6 years of promising they wouldn't and a big portion of the population is livid. People are afraid that Bioware will do the same thing because of the lure of money. Justifiably.
Well tbh. I still don't get it. I understand that all the old games like EQ2, LOTRO++ should go F2P. Cuz they're old, and the company have gotten good money out of them, hopefully enough to start developing a newer and better MMO.
I think all old games should go F2P. WoW will also be f2p, at least Blizzard have stated it will, at some point.
But new games like SWTOR won't be F2P, at least not for a few couple of years..
Well tbh. I still don't get it. I understand that all the old games like EQ2, LOTRO++ should go F2P. Cuz they're old, and the company have gotten good money out of them, hopefully enough to start developing a newer and better MMO.
I think all old games should go F2P. WoW will also be f2p, at least Blizzard have stated it will, at some point.
But new games like SWTOR won't be F2P, at least not for a few couple of years..
I agree with you, the problem is that most of these games are now trying to go ftp. And LOTRO isn't an old game.
Well tbh. I still don't get it. I understand that all the old games like EQ2, LOTRO++ should go F2P. Cuz they're old, and the company have gotten good money out of them, hopefully enough to start developing a newer and better MMO.
I think all old games should go F2P. WoW will also be f2p, at least Blizzard have stated it will, at some point.
But new games like SWTOR won't be F2P, at least not for a few couple of years..
I agree with you, the problem is that most of these games are now trying to go ftp. And LOTRO isn't an old game.
Sorry to say, LOTRO is indeed an old game. It originally came out Q1 in 2007. Nearly three and a half years with computers and their technology and graphics is alot.
And what is the problem with games going F2P? You may choose to continue to play for free, or by using $12-14(like the normal months pay) a month on item shops, or of course more if you want. Or pick another new game.
Well tbh. I still don't get it. I understand that all the old games like EQ2, LOTRO++ should go F2P. Cuz they're old, and the company have gotten good money out of them, hopefully enough to start developing a newer and better MMO.
I think all old games should go F2P. WoW will also be f2p, at least Blizzard have stated it will, at some point.
But new games like SWTOR won't be F2P, at least not for a few couple of years..
I agree with you, the problem is that most of these games are now trying to go ftp. And LOTRO isn't an old game.
Sorry to say, LOTRO is indeed an old game. It originally came out Q1 in 2007. Nearly three and a half years with computers and their technology and graphics is alot.
And what is the problem with games going F2P? You may choose to continue to play for free, or by using $12-14(like the normal months pay) a month on item shops, or of course more if you want. Or pick another new game.
No, LOTRO is NOT an old game. EQ2 is an old game.
As for f2p, because it allows the lowest and most mentally childish of the population to make everyone else miserable because they aren't paying for the game. People tend to behave better when they're putting real money in to it.
Well, as far as the cash shop, I say as long as members have FULL access to the game's content (apart from some kind of noob shit like the celestial steed in WoW, cosmetic items that look cool but are seriously worthless apart from it being a collector's item.) If I pay a subscription to play a game, I do not expect to also have to pay REAL money to get high level items or beneficial potions and junk from an online store. I don't like knowing that people can pay to get ahead in MMO's. Even though I really want to play The Old Republic, I will not play if they pull pay to win bullshit. If they do what WoW is currently doing by offering stuff like in-game pets and mounts for sale, then I could care less. I think the fact that people actually waste their money on that cap is hilarious.
There are three games I'm looking foward to playing anyway:
Guild Wars 2
Star Wars: The Old Republic
and FFFIV
The thing is, if one of them fucks up, there are two others I can go to. I will have no remorse leaving. Hopefully one of them isn't fail. In the end, I agree. I'm really looking forward to this game as a giant Star Wars nerd, but I will not sit by and let them support a pay to play against a store business model.
I don't think it makes a better game or community whether people put real money into it or not.
Look at WoW, good game, but the community sucks. And it's growing uglier every minute. And most of my irl friends left WoW ages ago. I still have it as a backup-game. Still, I'm playing everything I can, f2p or p2p.
EQ2 is twice as old as LOTRO, that's true. Makes EQ2 ancient:) But LOTRO is still old.
I don't say old games suck, at all. They don't. The best of the oldest remains classic. But some prefer playing the newest. I try every new game I hear of and want to try. But still having old classics installed
I also think games are getting old after a year or two. Can't say Warhammer Online is NEW exactly, it's soon to turn two years. And what's not NEW is old.
Comments
Your advice, I'm sorry to say, is terrible.
When things happen that many people CLEARLY don't like, they aren't just going to sit and suck on it. If that was the case, the US would still be under British control. Things happen that people don't like; people state that they don't like it, group together, and actually make things happen.
I'm sorry that I don't want to just sit around and suck on it. Something as lame as this forum post goes a lot further than you think. People notice and things get done.
Your attitude, as well as many others on this thread, is pretty lazy. I bet people walk all over you.
Millions purchased it? lol
Show me stats before you start quoting figures.
So the other REAL option is to organize ourselves and collectively "suck on it". Unless, of course, you want to storm the Bioware HQ and enforce a new law banning item shops.
You forget the fact that both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are AWESOME games without the addition of any DLC...so yeah it still pisses me off that you have to pay more stuff to extend the game, but at least the standalone product is top quality.
666
awesome?, nah just generic, they did not bring anything new to the table, its was done before, they are good but awesome not that much
I thought ME2 was pretty awesome, and although it isn't as open sandboxy like a Reed Dead Redemption, I can't recall many other games doing the same as ME2 did.
I guess it's a matter of taste, and tastes differ.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree with this. As long as the store does not sell weapons or armor better than stuff you can get in game, or the best stuff is bought not earned, people and fans can buy all the fluff and magical shiny costumes they want.
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
I wouldn't doubt it if that isn't far off. Day one sales put it at nearly a quarter million purchases since within afew hours there was over 170k people waiting in que to get it. That doesn't even count the people that had already made it through the que.
http://kotaku.com/5518416/world-of-warcraft-pet-sales-made-millions-for-blizzard-today
The Panderan Monks last year sold 220k before they closed it up.
Hmmmmmm, last i checked all the games that you pay a monthly fee for you still get FULL access.
DLC's are becoming more common for alot of games, onlinestores are as well.
But comparing DDO a game that is now F2P with limitations or LOTR which will be the same BUT....if you are paying a monthly/lifetime or whatever fee you get all the options . Fluff is now becoming optional cash grabs, and it sure as hell not just Bioware.
So what makes the person who pays the 15$ to play 24hrs a day with full access, different from the person who doesnt but has to pay for content options? well the one who pays for content later pays more in the end but can at thier own leisure.
But its OPTIONAL.
Welcome to just about anything in the world, from gym memberships to cars or most forms of entertainment. You do it if you can afford it but there are many options in how you pay or play.
Video games are just catching on now that its such a giant industry.
Some of you see only the TURN but not the road ahead.
yes its only a cash shop with cosmetic items. Yes doesnt really affect the game much. Sure but does it ever end there. Will it stop there? Most likely not.
what you got here is what we call is the COMMONWEALTH EDISON syndrome.
Commonwealth edison was first company to ever pull this stunt. What they do is jack the prices up so high.. and leave it there for awhile... till enough people complain. THen they bring the price back down... but its higher then its original state. People are happy.
see they just increased the price and people are happy about it.
gas companies seem to be doing this too.
but what these MMOs are doing is getting you use to the cash shops... accepting them in the games. But watch out for the road ahead. you say they are just cosmetics now. But after it becomes a norm to have these cash shops you are stuck with its reigns. They will eventually sell more then jsut cosmetic stuff. and still charge you that monthly fee because they know you will.
problem is poeple dont see this. You dont see where these MMOs are heading. They know being a shopaholic is a disease too. People love to shop. SO they will buy. and still get that 15 dollars a month.
a person said about 10 years ago to now we should have increases in sub... we did. it went from $9.99 to $14.99 or $15.99
funny thing is.. its cheaper now to get bandwidth then it was in the past.
parts to make a server are also cheaper now and better. more efficient.
so i wouldnt say they NEED to raise the prices. These companies are still walking away with millions. And bioware being the most expensive game produced... well they are taking a HUGE gamble. They are seriously thinking they will be the next WOW. Good luck to them.
The MMO genre is an extremely fickle and picky crowd.
but me and others im sure. Will not be subbing if a game has a cash shop. IF SWTOR has a cash shop. I wont be buying the game. I didnt buy STO for exact same reason.
cosmetic or not... i dont think its right when i pay a monthly sub. If i didnt pay a monthly sub then yes cash shop is needed.
This goes to both of you.
If it's merely aesthetic gear and whatnot that we're talking about, who cares? If it doesn't add to your performance, but only your looks, then just shrug it off.
However, if BW does release a cash shop that has better gear and whatnots to purchase, I will /quitgameforever, and in-turn, never play another BW MMO. Ever. Again. I don't foresee them being stupid enough to make this all about money. And if they do, shame on them.
This franchise used to be about entertainment. More and more, it's become a cash machine. If Activision was involved, I wouldn't have paid any mind to this game, but thankfully they're not. And even though EA is involved, they're not as callous as the afore mentioned.
THE Rooster Nash
I have no problem with them charging for aesthetic-only items. Yes, I think it is somewhat immoral when they are charging a monthly fee, but these items do not alter the game landscape, and they are an extra revenue source.
Of course, I've said it before, I am in love with Anets Buy To Play business model. You buy the game, so the company gets some capital up front. You are paying for a quality, well-developed game with some real effort into it (read: better than F2P crap that I hate by and large, and even if I like, has very low polish and production value), and you feel like you are paying to play a game, which is the way things should be, to my mind.
After that, you do not pay a monthy fee for the right to access the game you paid to play. I know that servers cost money, but making us feel like we are paying for rent in our game world is unpleasant, for me anyway.
Now, you can charge for any major content update, and the player can choose to have it or not (unlike subscription games, where some content is added for free), though of course they could choose to add free content for whatever reason, on a case-by-case basis. You can also charge for aesthetic items, perhaps even in-game housing. Anet charges for costumes, skill packs, character and bank slots, none of which changes the face of the game world or gives a direct advantage. And yet, with an expansion on a more regular basis than subscription games (in theory), and many if not most players buying extras, you will come up with a decent bit of money anyway, and the players did not feel forced to pay, and they can log on whenever they want without renting their game.
It is win-win, and it is a simply great idea. I know if I had had to pay a subscription for GW, I would still have bought the expansions, but I would not have bought my Shining Blade outfit, or my several extra character slots, or my Prophecies skill unlock. I would have played off and on here and there, and they probably would have ended up with roughly the same amount of my money. The difference is that I could check in on the game when I wanted, drop an hour here, wait a week, and drop another hour. I felt no need or pressure to be in the game, doing things. It was a choice for my leisure time, and not something I was renting, and as such felt obligated to use.
I realise that this ended up being quite long. I apologise.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I completely and totally agree with you. What happened is greed. I'm hoping Bioware will be bright enough that they won't fall into this trap. I'd rather pay $20 a month than have the garbage that EQ2 just pulled.
However..... this isn't the games forums. Chances are that Bioware won't even see what you just posted. How about you go to THEIR official forums and say this?
Amen.
Real world currency in the game destroys my immersion. Don't want to play games with a cash shop, period.
I dont' enjoy it.
If you like cash shops, that's fine.
IMO, they should make games for you, and games for me. One with a cash shop, one without. I will happily pay a monthly sub for a good game with no cash shop.
I will not play a game with a cash shop.
Why? Because we play games for fun, and I don't have fun in a game with a cash shop. It makes me think about money, and I dn't want to think about money in a game.
I don't like to think about money in a game. Cash shops put real life currency into the game.
I can't "shrug it off" if there is a cash shop in the game, then there is real life money in the game, then I will think about money instead of playing a fun game.
It's not about "performance".
It's about being in a game world, where dollars do not exist, but credits, or gold pieces do. THAT is fun for me.
The minute you put dollars into the game, inside the actual gameworld, well I might as well just go to the mall, or go to my job. Now it's about money.
Wait a minute... Isn't EQ and station passes something SOE came up with? What does Bioware has to do with any of that?
EQ is certainly not listed as one of their games: http://www.bioware.com/games/
Could someone please explain wtf is going on?
Oy. I'd have thought this would be obvious. EQ2 (not EQ) just went f2p after 6 years of promising they wouldn't and a big portion of the population is livid. People are afraid that Bioware will do the same thing because of the lure of money. Justifiably.
Well tbh. I still don't get it. I understand that all the old games like EQ2, LOTRO++ should go F2P. Cuz they're old, and the company have gotten good money out of them, hopefully enough to start developing a newer and better MMO.
I think all old games should go F2P. WoW will also be f2p, at least Blizzard have stated it will, at some point.
But new games like SWTOR won't be F2P, at least not for a few couple of years..
I agree with you, the problem is that most of these games are now trying to go ftp. And LOTRO isn't an old game.
Sorry to say, LOTRO is indeed an old game. It originally came out Q1 in 2007. Nearly three and a half years with computers and their technology and graphics is alot.
And what is the problem with games going F2P? You may choose to continue to play for free, or by using $12-14(like the normal months pay) a month on item shops, or of course more if you want. Or pick another new game.
No, LOTRO is NOT an old game. EQ2 is an old game.
As for f2p, because it allows the lowest and most mentally childish of the population to make everyone else miserable because they aren't paying for the game. People tend to behave better when they're putting real money in to it.
Well, as far as the cash shop, I say as long as members have FULL access to the game's content (apart from some kind of noob shit like the celestial steed in WoW, cosmetic items that look cool but are seriously worthless apart from it being a collector's item.) If I pay a subscription to play a game, I do not expect to also have to pay REAL money to get high level items or beneficial potions and junk from an online store. I don't like knowing that people can pay to get ahead in MMO's. Even though I really want to play The Old Republic, I will not play if they pull pay to win bullshit. If they do what WoW is currently doing by offering stuff like in-game pets and mounts for sale, then I could care less. I think the fact that people actually waste their money on that cap is hilarious.
There are three games I'm looking foward to playing anyway:
Guild Wars 2
Star Wars: The Old Republic
and FFFIV
The thing is, if one of them fucks up, there are two others I can go to. I will have no remorse leaving. Hopefully one of them isn't fail. In the end, I agree. I'm really looking forward to this game as a giant Star Wars nerd, but I will not sit by and let them support a pay to play against a store business model.
Argh
I don't think it makes a better game or community whether people put real money into it or not.
Look at WoW, good game, but the community sucks. And it's growing uglier every minute. And most of my irl friends left WoW ages ago. I still have it as a backup-game. Still, I'm playing everything I can, f2p or p2p.
EQ2 is twice as old as LOTRO, that's true. Makes EQ2 ancient:) But LOTRO is still old.
I don't say old games suck, at all. They don't. The best of the oldest remains classic. But some prefer playing the newest. I try every new game I hear of and want to try. But still having old classics installed
I also think games are getting old after a year or two. Can't say Warhammer Online is NEW exactly, it's soon to turn two years. And what's not NEW is old.