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On Forum Moderation at Turbine Forums
Redly
Member Posts: 5
What the frak is going on at Turbine? Any mere MENTION of the phrase "store-potions" gets the thread AUTOMATICALLY locked, without any reason why, no dev post....It is a VERY heatly debated topic and I believe should get its just exposure. I myself am not THAT concerned about the potions in-game...what DOES have me upset is the moderation techniques being used.
After several 55+ page threads about it, they apparently made an in-house decision to lock and DELETE any such thread without any comment. This resulted in dozens of people getting forum infractions, not even knowing why. Absolutely the WORST PR in an MMO I've ever seen in really long time. And when did this change happen? Just recently. When the big WB took over. Not when they decided to go F2P. Coincidence? Perhaps. Or it could be when the new Prez came along, Karen whats-her-name. In the past, the moderators used to be extremely patient and helpful, but I can see now that corporate greed and censorship is the name of the game now.
What was really funny is I made a generic post, that did not include any past decisions of moderation (an infraction) but yet THAT post was locked and deleted too, giving me another forum infraction. I can still post there, so I guess I need 5 or so before that happens. (Have 4 atm) One of the moderators, (Sapience) I think has it in for me, but I'm probably just paranoid. So, needless to say, I've been taking a LOTRO vacation lately.
Except for another topic...
I was in anticipation of this latest greatest Beta "EVENT" that was emailed to everyone beta-testing. The email described "Watch Middle-Earth BURN TO THE GROUND!" or some-such. Now, I realize beta testing is just for that, testing, and that no "rewards" or actually having "fun" is the norm, or even allowed in some cases. But the event with the email that was sent TWICE with big flashy graphics and exclamation points consisted of this:
1) Sit in queue 20 minutes past the start time (to be expected, to be sure)
2) Get in game. Devs ask to go to the new zone, Endewaith for 15-20 minutes. Stand there.
3) Devs ask to test the store, buy some things. Okay.
3) Devs say server is restarting, please log out. Okay.
4) Sit in queue 20 more minutes past the time they said it would be back up. (to be expected)
5) Devs ask to test the store okay for another 15 minutes or so.
6) Devs ask to test some LUA plugin module thing that the majority of the population has no clue about. Another 10-15 minutes.
7) Nef the Dev says, "Thanks everyone for participating in the event!!!"
8) Um, what?
When someone says, "EVENT", that usually means...some sort of "ACTION". Previous beta "events" had spawned the odd boss monsters, thorog, the rog from the Rift, etc in Thorin's Hall. That sorta thing. Now again, I am not expecting any such thing all the time, but like I said EVENT usually means something other than standing around and doing practically nothing. I told Nef the Dev that the next time they send out emails to be "less flamboyant and don't exaggerate the details", and got a snarky, "Was it too exciting for you??" response. *UCK them.
And I believe I will get off my soapbox now. Except to say that those of you interested in LOTRO may want to stay away if you like good customer service. Granted, I know its been on the decline in all MMO's in general these days but .....GEESH.
Redly
[Mod Edit]
Comments
What's in a title? I think that if you use such over the top descriptive terms in your posts over at the LOTRO forums, you probably would get banned. I don't think it to be "nazi-like" that they moderate THEIR forums. It is their right to gleen the threads they want and to get rid of those they feel are negative. Now, that does not mean I am defending Turbine. I am no fan of their move toward the false "f2p" model that they are attempting to con everyone to be excited about. At the same time, I am not of the opinion that you can (or should) be allowed to post anything you wish about THEIR game on THEIR site. If you want to vent...do it here. At least within reason, you won't get banned.
Let's party like it is 1863!
You realise its beta test , right ?
Maybe if you would have read the e-mail or the post on the Beta Forums you would have had a clue what the 'event' was about ....... it was a server / system stress test, pure and simple. How many players doing X would it take to crash the system. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the title of the e-mail. A bit over the top, but once you found out it was a stress test, it made sense.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I did not use "over the top descriptive terms" in my posts and was mostly polite and genuinely perplexed as to why they had made this decision, yet was given infractions anyway. That's nazi-like if you ask me.
And to the guy just above me....of course "I know its a beta test"...I don't think you read my post clearly enough when I said I don't expect, nor even ask for, "rewards" or even to have "fun". My beef was in the way the email was advertised, including contest prizes and an "EVENT", which usually means actually doing something.
Yes, Turbine has every right to police their forums the way they wish, and to run their beta-test the way they wish. I am merely giving my opinion on what I think is poor PR practices.
Redly
Sorry, but I'm not really feeling your argument. It sounds to me like you might just need a break from Lotro/Turbine for a while. I've been in the same position with games and publishers before and it usually means that I need a weeks vacation from the game or situation. Play something else on your list for a week or just take a break from gaming completely and read a book or something. If several small-seeming issues are getting you upset, well this is a good warning sign for me to usually take a vacation. Distance and time will help you to remember the things you love about the game or make you realize that it might be time to move on to something else. Staying too close and intensely invested in it can just cause the problem to grow. Game on!
You are suggesting that Turbine devs hawk every possible forum about their game in order to either stringarm the forum owners to skew moderation towards Turbine or, the opposite, gather information from the community.
Which way were you going with that?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nazis were known for their quick deletion of forum threads without any explanation. Yep, totally true.
Wrt the OP's details on the store-potions discussions, I agree completely as I was one of those that got an infraction for posting some test data on the subject, not realizing there was any problem doing so.
The handling of the situation by the moderators is appalling. People are getting these infractions because they didn't know that the subject was off-limits. Their posts were getting deleted, so no one else knew not to fall into the same trap. There was no public post from a moderator about the situation (and at the time of writing, I still don't know of any public posting).
Yep! That, and health care.
Pretty sure the beta forums are for submitting HELPFUL info to the devs, not people bitching.
The moderation in question was in the GENERAL forums, after the NDA was lifted. And included hundreds of concerned players discussing politely in multiple threads the subject at hand.
Turbine removed and locked all of those threads (and any future threads), and distributed infractions without any explanation whatsoever.
And, intelligent people know that the usage of words like "nazi" doesn't just include people with short mustaches and wearing black uniforms. It is a concept. Which apparently some of you do not understand.
Redly
Sounds like that vacation might just be the best thing for you right about now.
I'll give you that the first thing I thought of when I read the e-mail's title was Beta was ending, since what could be more fun than to go out with a big bang.
Now with this being what was to be looked forward to:
1) Sit in queue 20 minutes past the start time (to be expected, to be sure)
2) Get in game. Devs ask to go to the new zone, Endewaith for 15-20 minutes. Stand there.
3) Devs ask to test the store, buy some things. Okay.
3) Devs say server is restarting, please log out. Okay.
4) Sit in queue 20 more minutes past the time they said it would be back up. (to be expected)
5) Devs ask to test the store okay for another 15 minutes or so.
6) Devs ask to test some LUA plugin module thing that the majority of the population has no clue about. Another 10-15 minutes.
7) Nef the Dev says, "Thanks everyone for participating in the event!!!"
8) Um, what?
Do you have to wonder why they'd give out rewards? I'd have to think Turbine knew this would be about as much fun as watching paint dry, so why not give out some free TP's to get players to log in and help.
Heck, my testing consisted of sitting in the log in line with 200 in front of me for 20min until the system crashed, then jumping the line (quick fingers) and getting in to the character creation screen in order to see 1 inch high world event letters covering my screen in freeze mode, until I logged out and got back in.
And then it was done. That was it, but hey I did my part and if I get some free TP's for it come the fall, all the better. If that makes me a brain-washed fanboi, than so be it.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Appreciate the response. However, have you been to ANY other past Turbine beta "events"? Because every single one of those had some sort of "fun" to it since January 2007. Every single one of them. And that was what was alluded to in the emails. Why the sudden change? That's my question or concern. I linked these two subjects together because I felt both the forum moderation and the real lack of poor PR in coordinating the "events" were lacking.
Redly
Well the last 2 'moors events didn't seem to fly very well.
Nr. 1 died on the table, when they blew the system even before launch
Nr. 2 seems to have been just 1 big lagfest cluster
Of the others (Great Barrow, a SoM one etc...) those just seemed to be limited access so maybe they were fun, but the everyone in one's have always seemed more like work than play.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
That's actually the thing about "F2P". Games are no longer designed to be "fun", they are designed mostly for "monetization". Looks like it's already carried over to the beta.
And yeah, while betas should be work (and why I don't do them), at the same time, MMORPGs have been using them as marketing tools for years now. Including Turbine, with all their free beta giveaways. Is it really wise to do stuff like this to potential customers? Guess they figure they don't need to care, what with F2P coming.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Yeah you probably are. I don't frequent those foums everyday but I don't think it's gotten out of hand quite the way you believe it has. Take that vacation, it will do you good.
Actually, using the term "Nazi" here is absolutely inappropriate. Nazism was much more than simple authoritarianism or infringing people's liberties. It was an racist ideology responsible for one of the most brutal and ruthless war ever fought. Which makes its use in a game's forum ludicrous at best. If really Turbine was "Nazi-like," you'll be dead by now or in a concentration camp.
Next time, use some other terms. For instance, authoritarian approach works well.
My advice to you: start an MMO blog.
Redly:
It is beta.
It was a stress test.
Get over it
Wrt the OP's details on the store-potions discussions, I agree completely as I was one of those that got an infraction for posting some test data on the subject, not realizing there was any problem doing so.
The handling of the situation by the moderators is appalling. People are getting these infractions because they didn't know that the subject was off-limits. Their posts were getting deleted, so no one else knew not to fall into the same trap. There was no public post from a moderator about the situation (and at the time of writing, I still don't know of any public posting).
^^^This^^^
I had the same thing happen. I had no idea that it was off limits. My thread deleted and an infraction received.
This is still going on....
Did you read your disclosure agreements weith regard to beta testing and the store? Because it sounds liek the threads were violating those agreements. When you're beta testing you should be communicating to the devs and avoid public disclosures. This is the case with any game.
Please don't speak on behalf of intelligent people, we would rather not be associated with teens who just learned about the Nazis and think that the term applies to everyone they don't like.
Nope. The NDA has already been lifted for quite a while.
I suggest to check this out:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nazi
I would have ot agree that there are many many pages of coment about the pot issue on the LORTO forums that horse has been beaten to death. I sure that at this point there is nothing anyone can say that Turbine hasn't already heard so it realy is time to just stop playing lorto or watching the forums and go play something else. While I'm a lifer over there I have not been in some time due to lack of new content and until there is new content I'm not coming back. For now I'm playing WOW again a game that won't be selling things like pots in a item shop any time soon. It's not like Blizzard needs to anyway not while they can sell sparkle ponies for $25 at a clip of 2.5k per hour.
Of course there is nothing Turbine hasn't already heard. But that is not the point here.
The point is, that Turbine is deleting any thread on this issue on the open forums, plus giving all posters a warning.
This is a very important issue, many people are concerned about it. So they should at least allow one consolidated thread on this topic.