Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Are Armor "Types" Needed?
Toren89
Member UncommonPosts: 5
I was just wondering if there has been a game, mmorpg or not, that didn't use the cloth/light/medium/heavy armor system. There probably has been, and I'm sorry that I didn't take the time to look it up, but I was thinking it might be nice if there was a game where all characters could use all kinds of armor, with two rules:
The total weight of all the armor worn must not exceed a certain encumberance limit, probably determined by phyical attributes such as strength.
Heavier (and thus more effective) pieces of armor would have balancing penalties on skills requiring complicated movements (i.e. spells, dodging, etc), with a partial dependence on where on the body the armor is located. For example, shoulder armor could restrict attack speed, gloves could slow down casting speed or impart a chance for spell failure. (I realize parts of this proposed system are similar to D&D rules, but I think this goes a bit further)
This, along with a classless system and possibly a regional damage mechanism, could provide for some interesting charcer development options. A spell-caster type might be able to wear a leather or steel breastplate over a traditional robe to offer that little bit of extra durability, if he has the strength to carry it. Something worn solely on the torso would I think have a limited negative impact on spell-casting ability (nothing to get in the way of hand movements or voice components) while offering protection to what is probably one of the most vital parts of the body.
I do realize that this is a complicated system that I'm sure would be a royal pain in the ass to implement and balance, but I was just wondering what peoples' thoughts on it might be.
The idea is to get people to think strategically about allocating a limited encumberance to armor in a way that maximizes its utility. Take again the spellcaster example. A breastplate with all other plain cloth would probably be best because it would have limited negative effects on the primarily used abilities and protect the most vital part of the body.
And with a classless, more custom leveling system, there will be, for lack of a better term, a more gradual gradient of squishyness. A mage who invests a little more in strength will be able to wear a bit better armor... but may, in the proccess, hinder his spellcasting ability by taking points away from spellcasting attributes or investing in armor for parts of his body where there is more of a negative impact. ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION
Muahahahaha
-Mad Scientist
--(me)
Comments
Sure, sounds interesting. But you're still going to have the light/medium/heavy distinction, even if it's purely weight. Because surely a metal breastplate will weigh more - be heavier - than a cloth robe, right?
I'd play a game with a system like that, though. As long as gear is not a major factor contributing to a player's combat ability. Feeling free to mix and match how you want to look without fear of losing that +10 [insert attribute here] is a welcome change in my opinion. That's why I support games with some kind of outfit or alternate appearance function.
I guess you do still have different classes of armor, but the thought is that player x won't be limited to only armor of type x. The idea is to get people to think strategically about allocating a limited encumberance to armor in a way that maximizes its utility. Take again the spellcaster example. A breastplate with all other plain cloth would probably be best because it would have limited negative effects on the primarily used abilities and protect the most vital part of the body.
And with a classless, more custom leveling system, there will be, for lack of a better term, a more gradual gradient of squishyness. A mage who invests a little more in strength will be able to wear a bit better armor... but may, in the proccess, hinder his spellcasting ability by taking points away from spellcasting attributes or investing in armor for parts of his body where there is more of a negative impact.
I'm not sure I'm explaining this correctly though... forgive the repetitive rambling. Hopefully I'll come up with a more concise and articulate way of explaining the difference.
Muahahahaha
-Mad Scientist
--(me)
There have a been a lot of games where any character could wear any type of armor. However, most still have some classification of armors into categories or types for skill related purposes (either maneuver penalties or defensive stats of some sort)
The whole "mages can't wear armor" thing is really an invention of the original D&D so far as I know. It certainly wasn't present in most other early P&P RPGs.
That's true as far as I can see, but a little ironic. In D&D (I think) you could take feats to better let mages cast in heavier armor. It's every fantasy mmorpg, which basically all trace their roots back to D&D or LOTRO, where mages and to some extent healer classes are robe wearing ragdolls who faint at the sight of blood.
Muahahahaha
-Mad Scientist
--(me)
Warcraft DnD has Spell breakers, which lore wise are Armored Mages
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I have played games with a similar system. They don't have restrictions but they might as well.
When you look at the requirements and the penalties the different types of armor have, they strongly correlate with certain roles and skills. You can technically be a spellcaster in plate but to do that you had to level strength high enough, and at the expense of intellect or wisdom probably and the plate armor has penalties to spellcasting because a spellcaster in plate sounds kind of OP and apparently the devs agree so they add penalties to make it not as powerful. The end result is that you can technically do it, but it isn't that useful, you might as well make a spellcaster in light (cloth) armor just as heavy armor is obviously meant for melee characters and medium for archers and such.
Making it area specific makes it a little more complicated but my experience with systems like that have been that you might as well have armor restrictions since the requirements and penalties all but force the restrictions anyway.
All men think they're fascinating. In my case, it's justified
In the game in my head... we all have one if we really love MMO's, you got that one game inyour head you mean when you say "I could design one better than that peice of crap..." anyways, in my classless game, theres 2 armor types. Theres cloth, and leather. This covers everything as far as the base appearance of a character. Feet, legs, chest, hands, head. in tose two skill sets there are "addons" that can be applied to overlap the base armor, after, you do wear a bit of armor under your plate, or you chaff really badly. my addons would consist of a foot to knee covering, thigh covering, waist covering, chest peice, hand covering wrist covering, arms, and head.
The addons are plate, chain, scale, padded leather, bone splint, wood splint, and various other things to be decided later. As you gain skill in defense or however I choose to award armor skill, you unlock better addons, and they can be saved in a "cosmetic cache" for later use even if you do not wear an item, or you can't wear it, you can save the item look to a cache and apear to be wearing an addon.
But thats just my hairbrain scheme, and if it suits someoen to use it in a real game, I just want beta invite.
Yes I know I did not go into jewlery, sufficit to say there is jewlery, and there is no skill associated with it, or graphic.
Instead of focusing solely on armor, how about the introduction of armor buffs and or heals either through level, class, or types of attack?
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
I can give an example of a mmorpg that didn't have the typical light,medium, heavy armor types.
In Neocron all armor had a STR req or PSI for the Psi Monk class. What armor had on it was a set of 2-4 resists and there would be more resist for higher tech level armor which obviously had a higher STR req. But the way to limit the classes a bit was to give them a cap. Like the Spy for instance had a cap of 40 STR. So while he could use STR implants or drugs to boost it he was fairly limited to lower tech level armors. But there also were armor belts, and shield belts with a high INT req so since he could all of the best ones spy's would carry one of those for each resist set and swap them out depending on what there was to fight.
So that's armor restricted by each class's cap instead of armor type restricted to the class.
Lineage 2 had not something like you are describing, but for example it has Majestic Robes, Light and Heavy Armour...like for example:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8688/95671725.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6652/81615270.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2756/85673862.jpg
The main pieces are different, they all use the same helm, and the gloves/boots are the same, but they drop/craft as "Sealed" and you have to get a blacksmith to break the seal as light/heavy/robe, you can seal them and unseal them again at any time...
There are a few games that didn't have armor types and restrictions, many MUDs. For example a MUD I recall playing (I can't remember the name of it though) didn't have specific armor types. However armor had weight and you could mix and match freely, but if you built your character with low strength you wouldn't be able to wear that specific type of armor. Also heavier armor often caused your spellcasting to fizzle, and if you wore too much you wouldn't be able to cast spells at all.
The Diablo series is another good of example of where armor type doesn't matter. Instead you need set stats to use various pieces of armor, like str and dex.
I can't think of any games quite like that. But I know there are plenty of games that will have light armors that often have a bonus to magic skills, or base stats that support magic skills, so that a mage COULD wear heavy armor for more protection but more often than not would want to opt for the light armor for the magic bonus. Its kind of the same idea, you accept a drawback for the added armor. Usually its so overwhelmingly better to go for the light armor that it isn't much of a choice at all though. Having specific pieces have different drawbacks as you suggest would tone that down some and allow for more variety in looks.
I would certainly like to see more variables in general when it comes to armor to make things more interesting. I always hated how leather armors are non existent after the early levels in a lot of games. Its like either a game strictly follows "mages don't wear armor!" rule or COMPLETELY throws it out and even mages end up wearing full platemail when they are high enough level to have the strength for it because it protects better than lighter armors. Leather could remain useful if the low armor level was offset with increased speed, lower endurance drain, cheaper to repair, other situational benefits as you suggest. Maybe better resistances to certain types of damage... metal armors protecting from stabs, slashes, and bludgeons better while leather armors protect better from lightning, acid, cold, and fire. Different metals and skins/leathers having different resists. Maybe one type of metal is great against slash and bludgeon, but is susceptible to piercing a little more than most metals, yet is very non-conductive so it gets a boost against lightning.
Maybe there is an elaborate armor crafting system wherein you get to create nifty composite armors. They would have a certain number of available "slots" for material choices. Add more metal to your design if you want those benefits/drawbacks, or choose instead to add more leather and hide, or chitin or bone or ceramics...
I want to make a breastplate that protects well against lightning, fire, bludgeon, and slash because those are the damage types I go up against most. A medium breastplate has 6 slots for materials, only three of which can be metals. I'll use 1 on standard metal, 2 on non-conductive-but-crappy-against-pierce metal, 2 on leather and 1 ceramic. It would probably end up looking like llamelar. I could use more ceramic and less metal to get more fire protection but then it would suck against bludgeon. etc.
probably too complex and not gamey enough for ADD generation.
Thanks to all for the civil replies! I had totally forgotten about Diablo. What I was really trying to think up with my probably overly-complicated system is a way for equipment choices to matter without that choice being based on the question "What is the best AC and stats I can get within a certain armor type?" Hence more importance placed on location and related penalties/modifiers with minimal attribute additions. I really like Burtzum's ideas.
I might think about this some more and come up with a proposed system of benefits/penalties for different slots and see if that clarifies the system in my head any . I think my ideal game right now would use the armor system I'm coming up with, a skill system something Like Ryzom's but a bit more complex, a pretty standard attribute mechanism, and combat like... AoC maybe?
Although it's true that such a game would certainly not appeal to the masses. Which means unless it's made by a small understaffed and unfunded team somewhere, it's not going to happen, or unless I try to do it myself somehow haha
Muahahahaha
-Mad Scientist
--(me)
Just a comment, you might want to take a look at "Mount and Blade" - it's a pure combat game really, but the armor system is by location and weight. It is also very historically driven.
http://www.taleworlds.com/main.aspx
Realistically of course the *most* important pieces of armor are a shield and a helmet...which is why they were the first things used by most cultures as they "armored up" warriors.
Mount and Blade! Nother good example I conveniently forgot about. I would probably go a bit more in depth with locational mods and penalties, but thats definitely a good start.
Muahahahaha
-Mad Scientist
--(me)