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Bazaar System
Wolfenpride
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,988
RocsLock's updated his channel with a commentary on the bazaar.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RocsLock#p/u/2/PnziMRRQjig
Looks pretty much similar to classic EQ's Bazaar system, except your setting up your own NPC while you go do whatever or are offline. I guess theres multiple instances of these market wards?
Also not sure on this, but I heard you can set up your retainer to allow crafters to come in and repair your gear for you? If true, is that perhaps a means for crafters to gain exp beyond obviously creating things?
Not entirely sure on my feelings on the bazaar overall, I think it'll be a refreshing change to have to perhaps advertise your wares/becoming a reputable vendor or something, but it could be extremely overwhelming if these market places are jam packed and you can't distinguish npc's from one another. Not to mention finding an item you want could require asking around or searching through tons of stores.
I understand why SE is going to have the bazaar as the primary economic design until the AH is implemented, I think there reasons are solid(arguable depending on your perspective i know), but for players who are not use to/don't enjoy running their own store this will probably be a bit of an issue. Others might enjoy the challenge out of it, as anyone good with AH's know they're extremely easy to exploit for your own gain, and usually pretty boring to manage.
Still torn on the subject personally, but I guess we'll see how it plays out once the game gets going.
Comments
Yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page on this one.
For me its a wait & see as I never played EQ, but I understand what SE is trying to do & it has merits imo.
Im not sure but I think classic eq bazaar allowed you to do searches for all vendors selling the stuff you needed, possibly with price comparisons as well.
A nice little path would show up pointing you to the vendor too, and yes you could search by vendor or item and do price comparisons.
There also wasn't 20 instances (not mentioned here) that take a lot of time to switch through and the fact that you couldn't setup a retainer and had to keep your character logged on to bazaar items meant there wasn't thousands of vendors. Also, there wasn't any UI lag and unnecessary menus. Right now I can't see the retainer system working, although improvements to the UI speed would help considerably.
Adding a search option would make the system work as long as it searched all instances, but they really need to make exchanging items and putting items up for sale (especially stacks) a lot quicker too.
Ah yes it did allow you search and form a waypoint to particular stores you wanted to look at I believe
Just what would you consider a reputable vendor? When all goods are of the same quality, what reason is there to prefer one person's product over another's? I've heard a few people mention this since the AH news, but it's a phenomenon that doesn't carry over very well from the real world to a video game. It makes sense for me to prefer Adidas over Nike or Burger King over McDonalds because they're not producing identical products.
If I want a certain shield, I want to buy it from the person who is selling it for the least. I can't think of a reason why I would willingly pay more to get the same thing from someone else, except maybe out of some strange desire to reward part-time crafters instead of the players who sell for the lowest prices as they concentrate solely on mastering a craft for profit.
But even then, an AH is still a better system for that! If I can see all the Aegis Shields up for sale, I at least have the option to scroll down the list and intentionally buy one from some guy who isn't selling at the bare minimum price. If I can't see all Aegis Shields because that would mean slogging through market instance after market instance, I'm going to end up having to buy from the most well-known, most prominent stores - those of the prolific crafters who master a craft for profit.
Who benefits from a system where buyers seeking a good price and sellers offering a good price are prevented from finding each other?
If the AH is anything like it is in XI, then you wont see list upon list of Aegis Shields. You will see that an Aegis Shield is for sale, but you don't know what the price it's selling for, so you have to guess the price. Guess too low, and you won't work, guess too high, and you just gave the seller a bonus. A lot of the time, bazaars will actually sell for cheaper than the AH, because the sellers don't have to pay an AH fee.
birdycephon is right on this one while an AH is more convenient the baazaar system ( as far as this case goes) is better as in the seller has to give you all the information as to his sell price. thus if you are buying your in a better position and you can even haggle. I would like to see and AH later on but this system should work early into the game.
we will be able to shortly after release they are approching it like they did in ff11 ff11 did NOt have auctions houses at release
So if they are approaching it like FF11 didnt they learn the first time that a bazaar is a horrible idea? And this one has no search function so its worthless.... at this point in time. EQ's was horrible with a search function.
I feel the same, It's not up to standard yet but I like the ideas behind why they are doing it.
I can see a few ways to get people to shop at your 'store' rather than some one else's, how about offering a kind of limited 'warranty' for a set period of time during which you'd repair the items free of charge. Giving a discount to returning customers when they upgrade, have weekend sales to attract extra business and sell off excess items. Buy pants, chest and gloves and you receive the helm free, discounts on bulk buys. We just need a good way to advertise your retainer and make it easier to find.
Perhaps have Linkshell retainers where you sell items made by combining different players skills, it's all dependant on the players and it would require searches of some sort. it might all fall flat on it's face but I think the potential for something awesome is worth not having an AH for a while. Apparently the AH is already in game so obviously SE has a back up plan if their vision doesn't work out as they'd like.
I realise there are bugs and a lot of balancing issues left to work out and we will be paying while this goes on but I just feel this game has so much potential I'm more than willing to give it time to mature. At the moment the MMO genre typically consists of WoW and it's clones on one side and Eve on the other.
There is no AH at start?!? XI system sounds more an lottery than AH. Seriously why can't they just copy WoW AH which was basicly copy of Ebay. It's almost perfect system and should be de facto in modern MMOs. Why MMO makers make easy tasks so hard still?!?
I wouldn't call the WoW system perfect at all, because most servers I played on had a few players totally controlling the price of certain popular items, if anyone tried to lower prices a little they would mass buy then re-list them at the higher price. It was very hard to find anything that might not be on the AH as the trade channel was used by idiots for spam so most people turn it off.
Trade chat would be spammed by enchanters as they had no other way of getting their services advertised,no the WoW system is far from perfect imo. On the subject of WoW do they now let you do something on the AH with your Iphone?
What SE are saying in that interview, at least how I read it anyway, is that if they introduced the AH at the start then that's all there would ever be and it would dictate how the economy works. Crafting is obviously going to be a huge part of this game, much more so than WoW, and I think they want the players to decide how the economy will work and not be limited to the AH by default.
Sorry for saying this but some of you ppl are too lazy if your going to the mall you don't have a window poping on your head telling you were x item is sold and for how much you need to look!
Bazaar is the best way to make profit on people that don't know the prices and/or lazy people that will buy the first one they see to not waste time.
Even if you go in the AH you could spend minutes to hours searching for items you want and it's fine for you but having to click and see from person to person is boring? how so? Your searching to try find an item and maybe get lucky and find someone selling them cheap.
For me these 2 systems should be in games more bazaar cause you can control the price easier then an auction.
I mentioned the trade channel because it's part of the economy in WoW and to illustrate that the AH was far from perfect in that it can't allow certain professions to sell their goods or services. SE have already said they will be adding searches to the market system, is it good enough they aren't there at launch? no but they will be added.
The AH limits the economy because once it is in the game people won't try out different ways to sell and buy items, the AH will be the default and that will be that. Plus once the AH is added there is no going back, this way if the new system doesn't work they can fall back on the AH and it's not something they can do pre-release until they see how the general player base responds and adapts to having to do things differently.
Can't we just give the developers a chance to realise their vision of the economy and give them kudos for wanting to try something new which they more than likely knew would cause a lot of complaints? If it doesn't work then they will add the AH but I'm interested to see what might happen, they've made an AH work before so it's not because they can't make one and I seriously doubt they are doing it just to spite and piss off their players.
They obviously think they can come out the other side with something better than the AH system, personally I'm willing to give them a chance.
You kidding me right, it's better that buyer has harder time finding cheapest price? You know this game right where point is that you do something different than in real life? I guess some women and men would love shopping MMO where you spend all time shopping. I mean is it good game where you have to FIND person who sells certain item? I just leveled on Bazaar quest! I guess I'm not HC enough for Bazaar system. And think how much crap would be trade channel full when couple thousand players try advertise!?
And Kordac, Bazaar isn't anything new or innovative. Same crap was in games like EQ2 and older.
It's not like they won't add AH..... you just want everything spooned to you, what's going to cost you searching some bazaars?
This is one of the only games were it's not going straight to casuals/easy mode but still offers some things that actually take a bit to learn/complete and not to say a decent storyline and not all about loot.
I personally enjoyed shopping from Bazaars in 11 a lot more
Ok i bought most from the AH but at least once a day i went to the big Bazaar place (somewhere outside Jeuno different location on different servers) just to look around was fun just seeing what sweet stuff is out there stuff i normally wouldn't check for and more than once did i find items for a fraction of the actual prize which i of course immediately bought and made a huge profit of them XD
Now i dont know about 14 but in 11 there were a few items which u only could buy over the Bazaar since u were not able to put them at the AH and i really hope it will be the same in 14 it just gave it all a more personal Note.
I wouldn't even need a search function i could just walk through the place checking all shops XD however i do understand that since no AH will be available at the begin a good search function has to be present.
I think they're trying to urge more player interaction. When you used an Auction House in Final Fantasy XI, you simply bought the item, and rarely knew who sold it unless you looked up the item history. There was almost no price competitions, which as we know, helps control the price of items. Sure, outside of Jeuno you could find countless bazaars set up, but that was a hassle to get through sometimes, due to people just setting up shop anywhere and everywhere.
I think them starting out with a bazaar only system will help out in the long run and encourage people to actually use their vendor NPCs.
Ex-SWG Correspondent
Currently playing: FFXI, SWTOR
Awaiting: FFXIV 2.0
we are gettign Ah too
I dont think they should implement an Auction House later. No AH will make it harder for the gold sellers to control the prices of items.