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Welcome back to EQ!
I've noticed the population increase as of late. Many players that left for WoW are coming back to the better game. I just wanted to say welcome back.
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Yes, welcome back people
And yes, the players who left for greener pastures are rerturning to the "Cornerstone MMORPG" after seeing that they werent all they were hyped up to be contrary to what another recent post in these forums might lead you to believe.
Have you played every game on the market today? If so.. you really need to experience this thing the rest of us like to call "outdoors". Seriously.. EQ is still in the middle of the pack graphically. Obviously you've never seen games like Ragnarok. Of course, this is forgetting that graphics barely make the top 3 list of importance for most gamers.
I played the 7-day EQ trial to try and get in contact with an old EQ friend I heard was having issues - and yes, everyone I talked to told me that while EQ was still dying.. a few people were starting to come back. It happens everytime a lot of people leave a game - some inevitably come back. It's not news. It's not because it's EQ, and in this case it's probably due more to friends than gameplay.
- Nellus
I know some people who have returned to EQ from EQ2 as well. Everyone is going to have a game that they like better. *shrug*
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
- Nellus
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Peoples goes back to the best classic game from time to time. In my case, CoH replace EQ, so who know, I may resubscribe to CoH at any moment...but EQ?
There is as much chances I will resume EQ as there are chances I will return to The Bard's Tale(the original setting, didnt even try the new game). Nah, more chances for Bard's Tales considering the monthly fees should I be nostalgic 1 night.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is very hard for me to say, without flaming you directly. Which is not my intent, but may be the results.
Everquest has been out for approximately 5 years now. This "graphically inferior" game has sold more than 5 copies, has lasted more than 6 months and is still making enough money that the owners (currently SOE) are still supporting the server farm.
EQ is a niche market game, that has found it's niche. Whether you consider it a cornerstone or mile marker in mmorpg history or just another fad, it has made its mark. It has lasted longer than many other games and has held it's position in the gaming community while others have come and gone. In North American, you would be hard pressed to find any other game of equal size, depth or complexity. This may change (prolly will and definately should) with time, but it hasn't happened yet.
Your wonderfull prose and indepth review of the game, awe me. I wonder, how many hours of research did you put into that? Have you, perchance played AO, UO, AC or even FF? These games are huge, have sold more than 6 copies and have each lasted more than 5 months. Have you compared EQ to any of these? Are the graphics same, better, worse? Is the death system the same, better, worse? Are these games overall any better, worse or could it be that they are just different? To what graphics did you compare EQ graphics to that you consider them inferior?
I am, sadly, an EQ fanboi. But I can tell you why. I can tell you all the things (both of them) that I truely love and enjoy about this game. I can also tell you many of the things I feel are flaws, issues that should be addressed, bugs that should be fixed. But I can tell you the why's and wherefores and what I base those "opinions" on. Can you?
I'll bet you play WoW? So, comparing the "worst death system on the planet" to the WoW death system; I find that I actually prefer the system in EQ. In WoW you have a choice of running back to your corpse and looting it, much the same as in EQ. Or you could have a resurrecting class rez you, much the same as in EQ. In fact, the only difference between EQ and WoW death systems, is the spectre in WoW where you can opt to take a 0% rez from the spectre at the nearest graveyard.... but wait, EQ has a Guild Hall now where you can summon all your corpses from anywhere in the game, no matter how many there may be and rez in the guild hall. So... hmm.... how then is this tragically impleted and lame excuse for a death system any different than the one in WoW?
So, you mentioned, specifically, 3 flaws within EQ; the graphics, death system and it's lack of innovation. I think I touched on the death system. Graphics are a tough call. Pretty much, no matter what anyone says, graphics all tend to boil back down to personal preferences, so you can prolly be correct on that. However, I "suspect" that the graphics in EQ are equal to (prolly not better than) the graphics in UO, AC, DAoC and AO. I personally have yet to see any FF, so I won't use it as a comparison. I would like to point out, however, that the games I am using as a comparison are good games, games that have been around, are worth checking out and are at least of equal content/value.
That leaves innovation. Well. hmmm... Innovating things are what? Or perhaps you can point me to some current gaming system that actually has an innovative feature? Something new, something never before seen in an mmorpg. Since I can't really image what that would be, I'm pretty hard pressed to argue this point. Even at it's birth, I'm not sure that EQ was truely "innovative". What made EQ innovative was that it took what it had and ran with it to a size and depth greater than any other mmorpg of it's time. Now, with other games on the market of equal or greater size and content, that "innovative" label prolly no longer applies to EQ. If it ever truely did. But can you honestly apply it to any other game on the market, now?
If for no other reason, I have to congratulate you on one thing, Troll, you suckered me into a reply
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
I'd like to see some backup to the claim that many people are leaving WoW for EQ1. If you just "noticed" an increase in population, that is nice. But if we start to discuss this like it's fact, maybe we should see some proof first.
I think he meant experience loss with the death in EQ1. In WoW you loose some durability, which does cost to repair but not too big of a pain to stop people from enjoying the game. Thats what kicked me off EQ, i died due to lag and boom, around 3-5 hours of gameplay grinding (which i hated) went for nothing.
Grind is another huge reason why im not playing EQ1 anymore. Downtime is yet another reason. Graphics are great, i love EQ1 graphics (even old graphics were OK). Innovative? hard to say, it was when it started, now, its nothing new.
Basicaly what ive seen from all the expansions and patches, EQ only got new zones, mobs, which makes content. But content on itself is never innovative. WoW and EQ2 are innovative becuase they bring something new, something that has never been before: in WoW its playstyle and simplicity(dont confuse simplicity with easy mode, WoW is not for kiddies) in EQ2 i find most innovative group combat with its heroic opportunities, and world graphics of course.
Im guessing, but i think only hardcore people are still playing EQ1. If a new player tries it, then there wouldnt be anyone to group with up untill im guessing level 40. And yes, some new people join, some make and play alts, but in order to realy have each zone at least half full, youd need a lot of new players. Which I dont think is happening or going to happen.
I dont think EQ1 is going to die though, and why should it ? many people who are 60+ spend a lot of time into it, they like raiding and stuff. So why quit? After all, EQ1 is all about end game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Most of my friends are done with WoW. In my personnal surrounding, none return to EQ, some did try Maxtrix, a few are juggling with the thought of going back to CoH, most are not currently subscribed to any.
We are looking forward to try GW.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I tried the guild wars trial... true, the NPCs you see around are affected by what you do in game, but that's on your account only... there's no sense of community besides "Okay, I'm in this area in this room.." Insta-click travel... a level an adventure (With crappy level-ups too, btw)... it's nothing more than a graphical chatroom with a poorly thought out battle system.
I'm playing EQ, I'm loving it. The game's just getting better, and they're adding a bunch of new abilities to all the classes... SoE is looking at what's making the game more popular and adding it in... There is so much you can do in-game it's mind boggling, and hard to decide. Most importantly, it's a lot of fun. Catch yourself up expansion-wise and come on back... the 7 day trial didn't show you near what EQ has to offer.
I guess I need to find time to play more, in order to experience the burn-out that must cause this sort of MMOG hopping. *Shrug*
A month of trial wont show new players what EQ is all about. And thats the problem with this game, its not friendly to new players. I find EQ2 falling into the same trap. Forced grouping will never make game popular since general population is casual players, and EQ is not for casual players. EQ2 tries to be, it is closer to casual-player friendly style but still lags far behind WoW - the best casual player friendly game up to date IMHO. I with EQ2 would be more simple then it is right now, then the roles would be fliped, EQ2 would have hundreds of thousands of people playing with laggy servers and then Blizz would call EQ2 as "neverlog" or "neverquest" or somethng like that hehe.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I don't think anyone ever claimed that EQ and EQ2 are designed for totally casual players. Those players probably would be better off somewhere else. Despite their different emphases, both are for people who like some challenge in their games and don't ask to have everything spoon fed. From my perspective, thank god they exist
I have to tell you though - I've never had a lot of time to play games, and when I do play I like to relax and have a good time. That's never prevented me from doing well in both.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What in the world are you talking about, lol. How in gods name does rewarding people for what they do constitute spoon-feeding them? You know, I don't even like DKP, and our guild devised its own system instead (because, /boggle, we wanted everyone in the guild to share at least to some degree in the fun of winning nice items even if they didn't contribute as much as someone else).
But I'll be happy to defend DKP this time around. OF COURSE it rewards people for what they do. They attend raids and do their jobs - they get points - they can spend the points. They don't show, they don't get points. They don't do their jobs they go bye bye. Voila.
Yes it's true that we don't hire a team of consultants to evaluate everyone's performance and reward them based on how skillfully they play from day to day, but honestly bro, get real ... we are dealing with PEOPLE here ... people who are our friends, people we like and respect, and, quite frankly, people who are needed to pull off raids. I'm sorry but if the Einstein of chanters didn't show up today we'll just have to make do with the chanters who did and they will damn well get rewarded for showing up and doing their best. [If they don't attempt to do their best, they wouldn't be around long.] But hell yeah loyalty and attendance are important ... without both, you don't kill anything. We're playing to try to kill stuff and we don't have the luxury of waiting for the ultimate team of MMORPG all stars to magically appear. Don't give me this no guild has the wisdom to pick out the best people and avoid weaklings bit ... any halfwit can do that. The reality is only the Fires of Heaven/Afterlife type guilds have the luxury of only selecting the top people ... the rest of us have to function in the real world.
This is the same system that prevails throughout human existence, except, perhaps, in truly and fully competitive areas like sports, where someone is rewarded largely on how good they play. But this ain't the NFL ... these are social games. People are theoretically supposed to enjoy playing with other PEOPLE or WTF are they playing MMORPGs for. Any time you do anything with PEOPLE, you have to make allowances for the fact that everyone is human.
On top of that, just who exactly in your perfect world is going to decide, e.g., which monk is doing the best job pulling? Do we need a committee for that too? Even if we had one, as you well know, people could argue all day long over every single detail ... and that pertains to everything else too.
Random?? Gimme a break ... I am not even going to waste my time discussing the "fairness" of random. Yeah let's let the guy who shows up once every six months and happened to be there the day some uber item dropped win it over the guy who shows up every day.
Tell you what ... YOU make a guild that only rewards people for the quality of their performance. Then, if you happen to find anyone else who wants to operate in a completely subjective system, YOU do the work to decide how how people should be rewarded
Oops, but that's beginning to sound a lot like a loot committee isn't it 
Anyway, running these dang guilds is like a second job under the best circumstances. But in every guild I've been involved in people bust their asses to try to figure out the best ways to reward people fairly and to see that people get rewarded fairly. That's about the best that human beings can do.
It's called "team play". These are the realities of team play. You make the best of it, and, hopefully, you have fun doing it. If not, I guess somebody can just continue their hopeless quest for solo uberness in the land of social gaming
You know, I like to solo a lot too. Soloing is an interesting test of ones skills and ingenuity. Yup, *personally* I tend to hold people who can solo well in higher respect that those who can't. But we just can't reasonable enthrone soloing at the top of the food chain. I've seen people who can't solo worth a dang but once you get them in a team setting they perform like clockwork ............ and I've seen people who can solo like experts but who are absolutely worthless in team settings. That's the beauty of these games ... they provide multiple ways to succeed and enjoy yourself.
If you just plain hate raiding, then you really don't need raid-level gear. I really don't get why people think they need the Uber_BP_of_Uberosity_01 if they are just going to be soloing or exp grouping. Those minor encounters are quite survivable in the gear they yield, particularly in post-Luclin expansions. The only reason I can think of that someone would say that the rewards aren't good enough for the effort expended in those non-raiding situations is vanity. They don't want to be told that their gear is sub-par when they are inspected.*
Pure random lottoing of loot was a major contributor in the death of not one, but TWO different alliances that I participated in w/ guild. Any discussion of DKP/ELP started fights because people perceived it as punishment for people who didn't have the time to show up often**, but it ultimately would have saved a lot of problems. A few special systems worked out for particular raids that involved lists and rotations (e.g. for Velious armor drops, back in the day) worked out better, but pure random for later raiding situations brought out the beast in people rather than the best. Heaven forbid a fourth string warrior win the aforementioned Uber_BP_of_Uberosity_01 when the star tank wanted it!
I had previously participated in guilds with point systems, and while it wasn't a perfect system, it sure did hold the whining down a lot. The purpose of a point system isn't really about reward. The purpose of point systems is to make sure that people show up, get the gear they need to fully participate, and don't fight among themselves over petty crap.
Anyway, complaining now about the raiding in an old game like EQ isn't going to change anything. They keep reinventing the game, but I don't think they are going to reinvent it so much that they chase away their most stable base of subscribers.... And it just doesn't make any sense at all to reward people at an equal level for soloing when there is so much plain old work that goes into raiding (i.e. scheduling it, getting people there, forming groups, getting to the encounter, getting it done, getting loot distributed, getting everyone out safely, etc.)
I don't know about other servers, but when I last played EQ, almost every guild I was familiar with was 1) reorganizing, 2) merging with another guild, 3) either losing players at an alarming rate OR gathering up players from dying guilds, or 4) gone. Exactly how are you supposed to be picky in putting together the very best under those circumstances?!
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*I say this as one who mainly played very loot dependent classes (i.e. melee/hybrid classes), so I count myself in there as one who can't whine if I don't raid. And to make it worse, I don't buy generally buy gear for my main characters AT ALL... So I know what it is like to be underdressed and hear about it... And I also know what it is like to be decked out in all NO DROP gear that makes people drool. But I don't care if they are laughing or drooling at my gear. I'm just wanna play.
**This argument is a peeve of mine. How is rewarding people who DO show up week after week punishing people who don't? People who show up are those who make time for raiding when they could be windsurfing or whatever. Sure, they may not have a life, but they do, in my mind, deserve a little something for showing up consistently so that EVERYONE has a chance to do the raid. If you a person has too much real life to raid, and really, really doesn't have the time, why are they so worried about what kind of loot they are getting? I know when I ended up in that situation, I was thrilled to pick up the reject, "zero point"/free loot that everyone else had already gotten or gotten better.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
While I would not defend the overfall merits of EQ compared to any number of games, the above posters contention that EQ has the worst graphics of an MMORPG on the market is just silly:
Exhibit A:
Ultima Online
Exhibit B:
Lineage (sorry if i just made any of the millions of Asian users cry)
Exhibit C:
Asheron's Call
Exhibit
Everquest Online Adventures
Exhibit E:
www.kingdomofloathing.com
Exibit F (the nail in the coffin):
http://www.mangband.org/screenshots.html
Oddly, the last two are by far the most fun of any games mentioned in this thread
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I agree...
But, of course as usual, the purpose of this thread is to happily welcome people back to EQ and fanbois from other games have to come trolling over here saying "Noones leaving my game for yours"
Boo-Fucking Hoo, yes they are. Shut-up and deal with it
There was just a little bit of that on this thread. I think I mentioned that I mentioned that I knew people returning to EQ1 from EQ2 as well... and then another completely off-topic loot and raiding vs. non-raiding tangent broke out.
Anyway, I am on the fence as far as coming back. I may be back before the Zeb/Xegony merger, or I may just give up MMORPGs completely for a few months. I won't be resubscribing to WoW when my account runs out, since I am paying $15/month to play less than 20 hours a month at this point. Right now, I have a lot of time to play, since I am at home all the time, and I am too pregnant to do much else, but when I sit down in this chair, I find playing WoW to fall pretty low on my list of "Interesting Things To Do On The Net".
That's not meant to be WoW-bashing, before the rabid fanbois swarm me. It's not a bad game. My husband is loving it. I just noticed that *I* keep forgetting to play, and I don't recall ever forgetting to play EQ. That's strictly a personal thing.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.