MMO's work the same way and, just like car designers, if it works, and the customers like it, use it. They'll deviate a little from a successful mode of operations but you won't find radical shifts in how things work anymore. What works is used and what hasn't worked will not be tried again.
Car designers discovered a while back that they need to implement changes slowly. Radically different will be rejected but a series of small changes implemented over time can and does work so you follow a "stock model" and adjust as you go but MINOR shifts from the "accepted" model -- nothing truely innovative/radically different or the majority of users will reject it and without a large enough market share, you're out of business.
If you really look at the design of wow at release, it was a pretty radical change in comparison to how mmos were at the time.
No forced grouping, tons of solo content, quest based leveling, story driven content, instanced dungeons, flexible class design and mechanics, responsive gameplay, attention to details, etc. Sure some of those elements existed spread out through several games, but overall wow was a very different approach to mmos. That is part of what made it so popular. It addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
Many new games are just the same formula wow used rehashed. Maybe there are some different graphics, tweaks to class structures, a new mechanic or two, but too many times the core gameplay is something most people have played to death in wow. Perhaps calling a game a clone is being overboard in many cased, but essentially it hold some measure of truth. Most new games are not addressing what many people consider the problems of mmos in 2010. They are just regurgitating designs that addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
The only game I can really call a WoW clone without even a hint of second guessing myself, was Warhammer when I played it. I have no clue what it's like now, but when I played shortly after release it felt completely like WoW with better graphics and worse physics.
Other than that, the rest of the games out there aren't really WoW clones (other than the obvious ones like Allods & Alganon), they just mimic WoW to try and capitalize on it's success.
MMO's work the same way and, just like car designers, if it works, and the customers like it, use it. They'll deviate a little from a successful mode of operations but you won't find radical shifts in how things work anymore. What works is used and what hasn't worked will not be tried again.
Car designers discovered a while back that they need to implement changes slowly. Radically different will be rejected but a series of small changes implemented over time can and does work so you follow a "stock model" and adjust as you go but MINOR shifts from the "accepted" model -- nothing truely innovative/radically different or the majority of users will reject it and without a large enough market share, you're out of business.
If you really look at the design of wow at release, it was a pretty radical change in comparison to how mmos were at the time.
No forced grouping, tons of solo content, quest based leveling, story driven content, instanced dungeons, flexible class design and mechanics, responsive gameplay, attention to details, etc. Sure some of those elements existed spread out through several games, but overall wow was a very different approach to mmos. That is part of what made it so popular. It addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
Many new games are just the same formula wow used rehashed. Maybe there are some different graphics, tweaks to class structures, a new mechanic or two, but too many times the core gameplay is something most people have played to death in wow. Perhaps calling a game a clone is being overboard in many cased, but essentially it hold some measure of truth. Most new games are not addressing what many people consider the problems of mmos in 2010. They are just regurgitating designs that addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
WoW was a copy of Asheron's Call, it wasn't original! Just because of WoW monopol people think it was the first of it's kind. IT WASN'T. WoW is just another MMORPG, so populated because of commercials!. DEAL WITH IT
Runes of Magic and the like are just trying to get the dregs from WOW.
When we get something actually different that is actually good will probably come from Blizzard or someone who believes that they can actually make more money a new way. That and have the resources to back them.
Whether Blizzard or some other company it is all about the money that they make and there is nothing wrong with that. What the players want only matters so long as the company makes more money. No game company is going to make a game to satisfy players at the expense of less profit. Even though I don't care to play wow anymore many more people obviously do to make the changes they made more profitable to them.
The data that Blizz has generated with WOW is priceless. I would expect them to rule the industry for a very long time and smaller companies to keep on copying what they do that works.
Those people who spew out WoW clone left and right they are the ones who believes that WoW was the first MMO in history and Blizzard invented sliced bread.
WoW was a copy of Asheron's Call, it wasn't original! Just because of WoW monopol people think it was the first of it's kind. IT WASN'T. WoW is just another MMORPG, so populated because of commercials!. DEAL WITH IT
Thanks for opening my eyes. I will work harder to call everything an Asherons Call clone in the future and credit you with this knowledge.
I might have trouble dealing with this revolation, but eventually I will learn to deal with it. Please give me time to adjust.
Pen & paper Dungeons and Dragons had leveling, dungeons, spells, weapons, armor, stats, and it came out in what 1975? . Diku MUD is the MUD EQ1 copied. . We should call a game D&D style.
I can not wait till RIFT come out and take WoW subs or even gain more . Blizzard please learn how to control your subcribers, it is out of fucking control now, your people are delusional or seriously brainwash.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious)."
I came across this quote on the forum today, and I was thinking about it. Is really every mmo after wow a wow clone?
True we have seen some games that looked A LOT like wow. But.. isn't it to easy to say about a game "It's a WOWCLONE!!!"?
To me it mostly sounds like you haven't played this game and if you did you only played it for 15 minutes.
What do you guy's think, are all mmo's after wow trying to be like wow, and are all the people who complain 'thatzz a WOWCLONE!!" noobs? or are there still lot's of mmo's that have their own style?
LotRO is indeed a WoW clone, through and through.
I played LotRO in alpha when it was still called Middle Earth Online. It was nothing like WoW. It got changed to LotRO at the last minute and it became a blatant WoW clone.
Linear worlds, quest based leveling, insanely simple mechanics, instancing everywhere, invisible walls and impassable mountains funneling the player, boring quests with markers showing you where to go what to do and who has a quest (the morinic !!! over every head), did I mention simple and limited gameplay? No point to the game other than to level up and raid? No other viable gameplay avenues? Expansions just increase the level cap and grind? That's a WoW clone.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious)."
I came across this quote on the forum today, and I was thinking about it. Is really every mmo after wow a wow clone?
True we have seen some games that looked A LOT like wow. But.. isn't it to easy to say about a game "It's a WOWCLONE!!!"?
To me it mostly sounds like you haven't played this game and if you did you only played it for 15 minutes.
What do you guy's think, are all mmo's after wow trying to be like wow, and are all the people who complain 'thatzz a WOWCLONE!!" noobs? or are there still lot's of mmo's that have their own style?
LotRO is indeed a WoW clone, through and through.
I played LotRO in alpha when it was still called Middle Earth Online. It was nothing like WoW. It got changed to LotRO at the last minute and it became a blatant WoW clone.
Linear worlds, quest based leveling, insanely simple mechanics, instancing everywhere, invisible walls and impassable mountains funneling the player, boring quests with markers showing you where to go what to do and who has a quest (the morinic !!! over every head), did I mention simple and limited gameplay? No point to the game other than to level up and raid? No other viable gameplay avenues? Expansions just increase the level cap and grind? That's a WoW clone.
Well I still don't think LOTRO is an actual wow clone. I quit wow after 4 years and went to lotro and I'm still there. The game feels so different from wow. I haven't played lotro on release so I can't tell you how it was back then. But in the state lotro is now I can't say it feels or looks like wow. The world isn't linear. I can choose where I want to lvl, I'm not forced to follow a certain path. Quest based lvling... how manny games before and after wow have that? I mean if you think that way then EVERY mmo is a wow clone.. and that is not true. I found the quests in lotro well written and a lot more fun in lotro than in wow. I haven't found invisible walls yet, and cause you're saying you played an alpha version it must be a bug. Yes you lvl up, like in so manny games. Yes you can raid if you want at the higher lvls. But aren't there A LOT of games were you can raid? It sounds to me that you are one of these people that don't know nothing about it. No offence but really...
oh and the first post is about a quote
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
Oh really?
It was a quote he used....
I know, but I wanted to bring it up because games before wow weren't really clones at all and now wow has become the standard of what a MMO should be. I just find it intriguing when someone says that quote since i've seen it used a lot and I just wonder what exactly are they thinking.
OMG I hope not! I hope you mean that because they have the subs, because as a game it is childish, had outdated cartoonish graphics at launch, lacks of lore and is just plain dull. If you did mean it should be the standard that all new games are designed to, then the MMO world is doomed! But hey, teenagers and every-kid-gets-a-trophy earrly twenties types will love it! I can see it now:
/petition I just logged in for the first time. I paid $50 for the game and $15 a month for a sub so why am I not at the level cap with raid gear and not in the top raid guild on this server already! I shouldn't have to play from level 1!
I know, but I wanted to bring it up because games before wow weren't really clones at all and now wow has become the standard of what a MMO should be. I just find it intriguing when someone says that quote since i've seen it used a lot and I just wonder what exactly are they thinking.
OMG I hope not! I hope you mean that because they have the subs, because as a game it is childish, had outdated cartoonish graphics at launch, lacks of lore and is just plain dull. If you did mean it should be the standard that all new games are designed to, then the MMO world is doomed! But hey, teenagers and every-kid-gets-a-trophy earrly twenties types will love it! I can see it now:
/petition I just logged in for the first time. I paid $50 for the game and $15 a month for a sub so why am I not at the level cap with raid gear and not in the top raid guild on this server already! I shouldn't have to play from level 1!
Perhaps he meant things like: smooth responsive gameplay, variety of gameplay options for casual and hardcore, pve and pvp, attention to details and polish, responsive to players concerns and ideas, third party ui support, etc.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious).
I came across this quote on the forum today, and I was thinking about it. Is really every mmo after wow a wow clone?
True we have seen some games that looked A LOT like wow. But.. isn't it to easy to say about a game "It's a WOWCLONE!!!"?
To me it mostly sounds like you haven't played this game and if you did you only played it for 15 minutes.
What do you guy's think, are all mmo's after wow trying to be like wow, and are all the people who complain 'thatzz a WOWCLONE!!" noobs? or are there still lot's of mmo's that have their own style?
Gee, you could say every game is an Everquest clone as well, every MMORPG will have something similar to others. WoW copied a lot from Everquest and multiple other games, today they are still copying other games, I'm sure WoW was being called an Everquest clone all the time when it was being made and launched. Fact is, no one likes to see the differences but the similarities. People will go on forums and tell the developers they want certain aspects to be like the other MMO as well to make things look even more similar and easy for them since they already know the mechanics/how it works.
Rift: Planes of Telara is falsely accused of being a WoW-Clone and an Asian over-hyped game. It's not either of those things and I'm sure other MMOs being developed/just released aren't either (not all of them but some of them). This is the reason why the MMORPG market is lacking, because people come around, read one word and say "Oh it's like this game and I don't like that game anymore." when they gave it no chance.
When I see the key word 'WoW clone', I usually dismiss the post and move on to the next one. That's just saying how much it means to me, or how I value such 'argument'.
After few times on mmorpg.com, this is a quick list of what it requires for a game to be labeled as such. A wow-clone may contain one or more of the following ingredients:
Has one or more of the following races: Orc, Troll, Elf, Gnome, Dwarf
Has similar menus or vendor interfaces,
Has classes with leveling trees,
Is of the style 'Fantasy Cartoon'
Has the same colors
Contains quests
Contains instanced pvp (Battlegrounds, Arenas)
Has the trinity (tank, healer, DPS)
Divides player into two factions
Yes, I've seen posters labeling some games as 'WoW clones' only because it had quests.
It's a tab targeting style game
It has skills triggered by 1,2,3 etc keys
Can solo in it
And not one line devoted to the number one complaint, level grind to end game. You guys are such obvious fanbois arguing something that you "usually skip over", and leaving out the one key thing that makes a game a WoW clone.
He did post that in the context of, to paraphrase "judging by what he sees here at MMORPG.com". Which I have seen just about every single one of those points being used in arguments decrying WOW clone mechanics. Hardly have I seen the argument you're using as a point of referrence.
The last time I checked no-one views Lineage 1 or 2 as WOW/EQ clones, yet many games have been dubbed Lineage clones (hardly are these games viewed as WOW or EQ clones). What does Lineage consist of? Leveling to end-game.
Leveling to end-game is not much different than building skils toward end-game. Does that make any future skill-based sandbox game a WOW clone? Considerng that's usually the meat and potatoes of the game. Leveling to end-game is a staple of RPG based Video-games. Just as seeing first person and shooting a gun are staples of the FPS genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
When I see the key word 'WoW clone', I usually dismiss the post and move on to the next one. That's just saying how much it means to me, or how I value such 'argument'.
After few times on mmorpg.com, this is a quick list of what it requires for a game to be labeled as such. A wow-clone may contain one or more of the following ingredients:
Has one or more of the following races: Orc, Troll, Elf, Gnome, Dwarf
Has similar menus or vendor interfaces,
Has classes with leveling trees,
Is of the style 'Fantasy Cartoon'
Has the same colors
Contains quests
Contains instanced pvp (Battlegrounds, Arenas)
Has the trinity (tank, healer, DPS)
Divides player into two factions
Yes, I've seen posters labeling some games as 'WoW clones' only because it had quests.
It's a tab targeting style game
It has skills triggered by 1,2,3 etc keys
Can solo in it
And not one line devoted to the number one complaint, level grind to end game. You guys are such obvious fanbois arguing something that you "usually skip over", and leaving out the one key thing that makes a game a WoW clone.
Oh sorry, I'm such a fanboi I forgot to add that one. Leveling to end game, so you mean char progression? Linear I admit, but still char progression.
Leveling to end game
Party instances
Raid instances
At this rate I hope WoW stops adding any new features, because you people will start calling every new mmo a WoW clone. You people choose to only see similarities and ignore the differences. No wonder mmo's are made for the masses now, they are more so that makes more money on one side and on the other, they are less absurd.
It's not important whether WoW invented something or not.
It's important that after WoW, every MMO(not sandbox, obv) has quests, and levels.
And not just quests, but quests presented EXACTLY like WoW. And not just levels, but the levels handled exactly like WoW does, with an experience bar.
Sure, the experience bar and levels existed before WoW, but after WoW, every MMO did it like that.
Then why do people criticize the concept of calling a game a WoW-clone? Because they THINK that since WoW didn't invent those things, the new MMO's would have been as they are even if WoW never existed. They would have copied Everquest and been exactly the same.
And that's precisely where they're wrong. If WoW hadn't been such a big success, the genre would have continued having no "succesful" standards, every game would have been an original amazing and PERSONAL vision of virtuality and persistancy.
Without "standards" any IP, such as Warhammer, or Star Trek, wouldn't have had "genre standards" to "respect" and use because of market, if WoW never existed there wouldn't have been "market demands" to respect, the developers would have been forced to take inspiration from the brands themselves, extrapolating original gameplay EVERYTIME.
And the genre would have been amazingly creative, progressive, experimental. And we would be happier.
Perhaps he meant things like: smooth responsive gameplay, variety of gameplay options for casual and hardcore, pve and pvp, attention to details and polish, responsive to players concerns and ideas, third party ui support, etc.
Standard doesn't have to mean immitation.
Basically meaning, a game needs a huge budget that is basically endless, allowing time for all of this to happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not important whether WoW invented something or not.
It's important that after WoW, every MMO(not sandbox, obv) has quests, and levels.
And not just quests, but quests presented EXACTLY like WoW. And not just levels, but the levels handled exactly like WoW does, with an experience bar.
Sure, the experience bar and levels existed before WoW, but after WoW, every MMO did it like that.
Then why do people criticize the concept of calling a game a WoW-clone? Because they THINK that since WoW didn't invent those things, the new MMO's would have been as they are even if WoW never existed. They would have copied Everquest.
And that's precisely what's wrong. If WoW hadn't been such a big success, the genre would have continued having no "succesful" standards, every game would have been an original amazing and PERSONAL vision of virtuality and persistancy.
Without "standards" any IP, such as Warhammer, or Star Trek Online, wouldn't have had "genre standards" to "respect" because of market, the developers would have been forced to take inspiration from the brands themselves, extrapolating original gameplay EVERYTIME.
And the genre would have been amazingly creative, progressive, experimental. And we would be happier.
Who knows? You might be right. On the other hand maybe another company would have discovered the wow formula or a different one that would have been successful and that would have been the new standard. What's done is done, now we have to hope that if devs follow this formula they will put effort into improving it.
To me someone who speaks about WoW-clones is a person with a limited playstyle, often the click mission/quest/accept without reading it and go to the marker on the map type of player. One that doesn't read or get's involved with the games lore/story will also consider many MMO's to be WoW Clones.
I played or tested many MMORPG, been playing MMORPG since meridian59 and have yet to see a WoW Clone due to HOW I play games in this genre.
this about sums it up. Mostly this type of person or a fanboi who thinks everything is a copy of the game they are obsessed with.
When I see the key word 'WoW clone', I usually dismiss the post and move on to the next one. That's just saying how much it means to me, or how I value such 'argument'.
After few times on mmorpg.com, this is a quick list of what it requires for a game to be labeled as such. A wow-clone may contain one or more of the following ingredients:
Has one or more of the following races: Orc, Troll, Elf, Gnome, Dwarf
Has similar menus or vendor interfaces,
Has classes with leveling trees,
Is of the style 'Fantasy Cartoon'
Has the same colors
Contains quests
Contains instanced pvp (Battlegrounds, Arenas)
Has the trinity (tank, healer, DPS)
Divides player into two factions
Yes, I've seen posters labeling some games as 'WoW clones' only because it had quests.
It's a tab targeting style game
It has skills triggered by 1,2,3 etc keys
Can solo in it
And not one line devoted to the number one complaint, level grind to end game. You guys are such obvious fanbois arguing something that you "usually skip over", and leaving out the one key thing that makes a game a WoW clone.
Oh sorry, I'm such a fanboi I forgot to add that one. Leveling to end game, so you mean char progression? Linear I admit, but still char progression.
Leveling to end game
Party instances
Raid instances
At this rate I hope WoW stops adding any new features, because you people will start calling every new mmo a WoW clone. You people choose to only see similarities and ignore the differences. No wonder mmo's are made for the masses now, they are more so that makes more money on one side and on the other, they are less absurd.
i hate to break it to you guys, but these qualities in games is what puts them into the MMORPG catagory.... they are not "wow clones" but MMORPG's.
Perhaps he meant things like: smooth responsive gameplay, variety of gameplay options for casual and hardcore, pve and pvp, attention to details and polish, responsive to players concerns and ideas, third party ui support, etc.
Standard doesn't have to mean immitation.
Basically meaning, a game needs a huge budget that is basically endless, allowing time for all of this to happen.
Another option would be to set goals and designs that are achievable within a set budget/time frame.
There is nothing wrong with making a game that targets a specific player segement or narrower design focus. Honestly a niche game these days should be able to equal what EQ did at its height of popularity and that was almost $100 million a year.
The alternative of releasing a rushed & unfinished mmos that beta testers plea with the developers not to release has already been proven enough times to result in failure. Harsh but true.
Comments
If you really look at the design of wow at release, it was a pretty radical change in comparison to how mmos were at the time.
No forced grouping, tons of solo content, quest based leveling, story driven content, instanced dungeons, flexible class design and mechanics, responsive gameplay, attention to details, etc. Sure some of those elements existed spread out through several games, but overall wow was a very different approach to mmos. That is part of what made it so popular. It addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
Many new games are just the same formula wow used rehashed. Maybe there are some different graphics, tweaks to class structures, a new mechanic or two, but too many times the core gameplay is something most people have played to death in wow. Perhaps calling a game a clone is being overboard in many cased, but essentially it hold some measure of truth. Most new games are not addressing what many people consider the problems of mmos in 2010. They are just regurgitating designs that addressed the problems of mmos in 2004.
The only game I can really call a WoW clone without even a hint of second guessing myself, was Warhammer when I played it. I have no clue what it's like now, but when I played shortly after release it felt completely like WoW with better graphics and worse physics.
Other than that, the rest of the games out there aren't really WoW clones (other than the obvious ones like Allods & Alganon), they just mimic WoW to try and capitalize on it's success.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
WoW was a copy of Asheron's Call, it wasn't original! Just because of WoW monopol people think it was the first of it's kind. IT WASN'T. WoW is just another MMORPG, so populated because of commercials!. DEAL WITH IT
Runes of Magic and the like are just trying to get the dregs from WOW.
When we get something actually different that is actually good will probably come from Blizzard or someone who believes that they can actually make more money a new way. That and have the resources to back them.
Whether Blizzard or some other company it is all about the money that they make and there is nothing wrong with that. What the players want only matters so long as the company makes more money. No game company is going to make a game to satisfy players at the expense of less profit. Even though I don't care to play wow anymore many more people obviously do to make the changes they made more profitable to them.
The data that Blizz has generated with WOW is priceless. I would expect them to rule the industry for a very long time and smaller companies to keep on copying what they do that works.
Those people who spew out WoW clone left and right they are the ones who believes that WoW was the first MMO in history and Blizzard invented sliced bread.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Thanks for opening my eyes. I will work harder to call everything an Asherons Call clone in the future and credit you with this knowledge.
I might have trouble dealing with this revolation, but eventually I will learn to deal with it. Please give me time to adjust.
Pen & paper Dungeons and Dragons had leveling, dungeons, spells, weapons, armor, stats, and it came out in what 1975?
.
Diku MUD is the MUD EQ1 copied.
.
We should call a game D&D style.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Exactly, there's a model of MMORPG that most of the games has and it was not invented by WoW. WoW is just another game, just over-popularized.
I can not wait till RIFT come out and take WoW subs or even gain more . Blizzard please learn how to control your subcribers, it is out of fucking control now, your people are delusional or seriously brainwash.
WoW is a clone of AC2 a game that failed miserably.
/end thread
AC2 = Asheron's Call 2
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Do these new video leaks look like WoW to you....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVn0YxoiNTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XcGV-4iuM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxrwj4CJnhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sycqjlPj0-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXSFkphxtM
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
lol....
LotRO is indeed a WoW clone, through and through.
I played LotRO in alpha when it was still called Middle Earth Online. It was nothing like WoW. It got changed to LotRO at the last minute and it became a blatant WoW clone.
Linear worlds, quest based leveling, insanely simple mechanics, instancing everywhere, invisible walls and impassable mountains funneling the player, boring quests with markers showing you where to go what to do and who has a quest (the morinic !!! over every head), did I mention simple and limited gameplay? No point to the game other than to level up and raid? No other viable gameplay avenues? Expansions just increase the level cap and grind? That's a WoW clone.
Well I still don't think LOTRO is an actual wow clone. I quit wow after 4 years and went to lotro and I'm still there. The game feels so different from wow. I haven't played lotro on release so I can't tell you how it was back then. But in the state lotro is now I can't say it feels or looks like wow. The world isn't linear. I can choose where I want to lvl, I'm not forced to follow a certain path. Quest based lvling... how manny games before and after wow have that? I mean if you think that way then EVERY mmo is a wow clone.. and that is not true. I found the quests in lotro well written and a lot more fun in lotro than in wow. I haven't found invisible walls yet, and cause you're saying you played an alpha version it must be a bug. Yes you lvl up, like in so manny games. Yes you can raid if you want at the higher lvls. But aren't there A LOT of games were you can raid? It sounds to me that you are one of these people that don't know nothing about it. No offence but really...
oh and the first post is about a quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------
waiting for ... nothing..
OMG I hope not! I hope you mean that because they have the subs, because as a game it is childish, had outdated cartoonish graphics at launch, lacks of lore and is just plain dull. If you did mean it should be the standard that all new games are designed to, then the MMO world is doomed! But hey, teenagers and every-kid-gets-a-trophy earrly twenties types will love it! I can see it now:
/petition I just logged in for the first time. I paid $50 for the game and $15 a month for a sub so why am I not at the level cap with raid gear and not in the top raid guild on this server already! I shouldn't have to play from level 1!
Perhaps he meant things like: smooth responsive gameplay, variety of gameplay options for casual and hardcore, pve and pvp, attention to details and polish, responsive to players concerns and ideas, third party ui support, etc.
Standard doesn't have to mean immitation.
The cake is still a lie.
He did post that in the context of, to paraphrase "judging by what he sees here at MMORPG.com". Which I have seen just about every single one of those points being used in arguments decrying WOW clone mechanics. Hardly have I seen the argument you're using as a point of referrence.
The last time I checked no-one views Lineage 1 or 2 as WOW/EQ clones, yet many games have been dubbed Lineage clones (hardly are these games viewed as WOW or EQ clones). What does Lineage consist of? Leveling to end-game.
Leveling to end-game is not much different than building skils toward end-game. Does that make any future skill-based sandbox game a WOW clone? Considerng that's usually the meat and potatoes of the game. Leveling to end-game is a staple of RPG based Video-games. Just as seeing first person and shooting a gun are staples of the FPS genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh sorry, I'm such a fanboi I forgot to add that one. Leveling to end game, so you mean char progression? Linear I admit, but still char progression.
Leveling to end game
Party instances
Raid instances
At this rate I hope WoW stops adding any new features, because you people will start calling every new mmo a WoW clone. You people choose to only see similarities and ignore the differences. No wonder mmo's are made for the masses now, they are more so that makes more money on one side and on the other, they are less absurd.
It's not important whether WoW invented something or not.
It's important that after WoW, every MMO(not sandbox, obv) has quests, and levels.
And not just quests, but quests presented EXACTLY like WoW. And not just levels, but the levels handled exactly like WoW does, with an experience bar.
Sure, the experience bar and levels existed before WoW, but after WoW, every MMO did it like that.
Then why do people criticize the concept of calling a game a WoW-clone? Because they THINK that since WoW didn't invent those things, the new MMO's would have been as they are even if WoW never existed. They would have copied Everquest and been exactly the same.
And that's precisely where they're wrong. If WoW hadn't been such a big success, the genre would have continued having no "succesful" standards, every game would have been an original amazing and PERSONAL vision of virtuality and persistancy.
Without "standards" any IP, such as Warhammer, or Star Trek, wouldn't have had "genre standards" to "respect" and use because of market, if WoW never existed there wouldn't have been "market demands" to respect, the developers would have been forced to take inspiration from the brands themselves, extrapolating original gameplay EVERYTIME.
And the genre would have been amazingly creative, progressive, experimental. And we would be happier.
the best blog of the net
Basically meaning, a game needs a huge budget that is basically endless, allowing time for all of this to happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who knows? You might be right. On the other hand maybe another company would have discovered the wow formula or a different one that would have been successful and that would have been the new standard. What's done is done, now we have to hope that if devs follow this formula they will put effort into improving it.
this about sums it up. Mostly this type of person or a fanboi who thinks everything is a copy of the game they are obsessed with.
i hate to break it to you guys, but these qualities in games is what puts them into the MMORPG catagory.... they are not "wow clones" but MMORPG's.
Another option would be to set goals and designs that are achievable within a set budget/time frame.
There is nothing wrong with making a game that targets a specific player segement or narrower design focus. Honestly a niche game these days should be able to equal what EQ did at its height of popularity and that was almost $100 million a year.
The alternative of releasing a rushed & unfinished mmos that beta testers plea with the developers not to release has already been proven enough times to result in failure. Harsh but true.