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Summary of WoW's grouping mechanics and player attitude towards it.
glim3mer
Member UncommonPosts: 154
So I figured I'll post this here, since obviously Blizzard silences vocal customers who "complain" on their forums by perma-banning them, which is exactly what they've done to me. I hardly ever post on their forums, I am mainly a reader, but on occasion I have posted, but all in all you can say I've posted maybe 20 times in over 4 years. It seemed though that, that was enough to perma-ban me without warning or "first time" offense.... nada, perma-ban and gtfo! That's blizzard, the cowboys of MMO's.
So on to my topic. The problem with MMO's is replayability, if you get everything and do everything, you're done, you either need an expansion or another game all together. So how does blizzard address that, well mainly by making loot tables randoms. Randoms to the point where you can be farming the same dungeons for months and never get that one drop you need.
Now, in the past there was issues getting groups to run those heroic dungeons, so what did Blizzaed introduce, the famous Random Dungeon Finder. So here's what's happening with this:
You either run with friends/guildies in which case you can avoid all issues, but if you cannot do that, for reasons that many people find unreasonable, like people are working, guildies are at school, etc... You are forced to use this tool and do the dungeons ala PUG.
So with pugs, this is whats happening (me being a tank);
-I get either under geared healers, people who should not be queuing up as healers but they only do so to reduce the wait time of queuing up.
-Undergeared healers with undergeared dps, which make the simplest of runs, the most hectic thing, that consists of wipe after wipe and taking over 2 hours in some cases.
-Extremely geared dps, who systematically do not letting you tank by going ALL OUT the first second you pull, without giving you the slightest chance to gain aggro. Forcing the healers to blow entire mana bars healing them, naturally leading to a wipe cause healer went out of mana.
-Dps who do not stand behind the tank and expect the tank to keep taunting off them while they keep making all the pulls.
Those are pretty much the standard scenarios found using this RFG (PUG) system. The system is basically crap for lack of better word. Blizzard has introduced this to band-aid the fact that getting groups was a horrific experiences in some cases, later at night , etc... so the slapped this candy out, hoping all problems would go away, but what this has done instead, is make decent players, have to deal with players who just suck.
And again, if I chose to not use the system because I dont want to deal with shitty players, Im back at square one, looking for a group that simply takes too long to do. So in effect, blizzard has solved nothing.
They are basically telling you, you will group up with, immature, undergeaerd, unexperienced players and you will most likely have a bad experience wiping non-stop, OR waster your time trying to put together a decent group.
As you can see, I got my ban for saying that this mechanic was cheap and it forced you to play with player you would otherwise not play with due to you not being at the same skill/gear level and that it was not a real fix, but a band-aid to a problem that they couldn't realistically address.
Conclusion, WoW is not a game you can enjoy any more, due to to constantly forcing you to team up with players who will ruin your experience and waste you time. Its a farm fest of gear that shouldn't be this hard to get. (How many times do I have to kill the same badass boss before I get my reward, I mean I killed him already, doesnt that prove I can do it?)
Sadly, Blizzards is using the old carrot on a stick trick and now, the only thing they added to this is the saying "Everyone is playing it" and they are selling it.
This is not a cry post, this is not a "I quit" post, its simply a heads up to those who dont play wow, as to what the average player is exposed to.
and P.S you need to see the kind of nerdrage that some players do, its really depressing to know, that you might be teaming up with them soon in your next dungeons adventure..... or misadventure?
Comments
you nailed it on the head, the reason i dont play wow and never will hehe, 99.99% of its player base are morons, no fun ot be had with them!
I totally agree. I played healers and using this tool, while great for looking to do a dungeon faster than normal, gets you the worst kind of pugs.
They were bad enough on same server, but now it has gotten worse. If a dps takes too much aggro and I run out of mana because I desperately heal them and the tank, then I'm a noob. Or the tank can't hold aggro, or some excuse but never their doing.
Also, you get the silent low dps, hiding way in the back doing very little but moving with the group anyway. LOL
Meh, I stopped playing because of sheer boredom, but that tool is one my biggest issue with the new WoW.
Blizzard uses the guild system to promote organised friends play.
In CATA it will be further promoted by Guild leveling and Guild vs Guild "warplay" in PvP and rated Battlegrounds.
What you don't see is that every playing style is being promoted by Blizzard.
So ... the guys who don't want a guild can group for a Raid, a Battleground or a dungeon and can get their playing fun without HAVING to go into a guild (although the introduced guild leveling is encouraging but not a necessity).
The advantage of this "global offer" far outweighs the negative ones you mentioned.
Every content is playable. Even 5 years after publishment.
You regroup players (even independant of their gear in these casual dungeons/battlegorunds).
You PROMOTE actually structured friend groups by promoting guild and competitive play.
That's all there is to it: furthermore I think that 80 posts with ZERO stars already shows a certain attitude towards a " friendly community".
Troll size 10/10.
so what youre saying is that the crap level of the pugs completely compells people to play with some guild they have to apply to and kiss the ass of to get into in this game? hehe sounds real fun, not. been there and did that in eq 1 raiding days when mobs were global non instanced spawns so guilds could lock them into cycle and not let other groups get them until theyld farmed gear dropped by said targets for all their raid members. what a pain in the ass it is to have to conform with some guild just to be able to play the content, unenjoyably if you dont get along with them or unenjoyably with other puggers that werent good enough to get good guilds to play with either!
Nice one fanboi. Lack of posting here brings your stars down, I made it to elite member because I posted alot in the span of a few days. A week later I was down to Advanced.
Try using something better to 'attack' someone with then a system you fail at understanding.
That's exactly the ONLY playing style of all those other MMO's and the mainstay of good MMO's: guild play.
You can't ignore this simple fact.
But Blizzard promotes every playing style, so it is your CHOICE isn't it?
And yes the friends play is promoted.
Or the off hours play with it. I can run a 5 year old dungeon at 07.30 AM ... or I can run it with the guild and some friends at prime time... YOUR choice.
See how smart the system is ?
I don't understand what's the problem? Blizzard gave people a tool to help with getting people to do dungeons with, and this is a bad thing? When I played City of Heroes/Villains almost every one of my groups was a PUG. Some sucked, some rocked, and most were average. Isn't that the nature of the beast?
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
For some it is a problem, since the grouping is reduced to getting through as fast as you can and to hell with those trying to learn. At 80, heroics are mainly judged by gs, and I've had more pugs dropping a member or snide comments about how low so and so was in dps, blah blah blah.
These were my experiences, I can't sum up those I didn't have to tally up my opinions, only those I've been in.
Dps pulls off tank, don't taunt, let him die.
Healer has members that always pull of tank, let them die.
Having played both a tank and a healer I found out fast that you can't do everything. After the person dies 5 times and gets pissed that the tank did not save them or the healer did not dump a mana bar on them, they will stop and play right. If not, remove from group and add to the "don't group" list.
Again, it's a choice of play you make in total freedom and within your time constraints.
If you don't like the auto group system: group up with friends/guild in scheduled time.
If you want to play all day and you can't seem to find the usual friends/guild go play whatever you want. The tools are there to group up organised or not, in both PvE and PvP. (5 year old content is revived in a wink).
If you play PvP with SC2 ... everyone knows that the most fun co-op matches are played with friends.
That's the present day choices of present day success. 24/7 play.
Hi there,
first off I am not a WoW player and I don't really get the point of your post.
Is it that the dungeon finder thing doesn't find suitable groups for you ?
Is it that Blizzard implemented that feature which doesn't seem good to you ?
Is it that Blizzard lets unexperienced / nerdraging / under-/overgeared players play with you ?
I could go on and ask you more questions, since I don't really see whats your main concern. About the random drop thing... its not WoW only, many games have that to ensure that most players need years to fully gear (or just to annoy the hell out of them ? ). Especially in f2p games, at least the ones I played.
What is Blizzard supposed to do? They give you a feature which allows you to find groups for dungeons fast. Even if the chance is low that you find a suitable group for you, it still seems better than nothing. I guess its frustrating, but even if you were looking for people yourself, it wouldn't ensure that those aren't dicks. If the feature wasn't there at all you'd be complaining about how long it takes to find a group (maybe?
) .
Even if its Blizzards WoW, I don't think its possible for even them to implement a group finding system which picks the right people for you out of a pool of players who 99% of are "unsuitable" (Idiots?) for you (no offense there...maybe).
I guess my advice would be.... bear with it or look for a new game with a community more suitable for you. But since you wrote its not about quitting, you'll have to bear with it.
With this reply, I can totally respect your point of view. It IS about choice, however, one can still express an opinion about something whether it be a feature in a game, actor in a movie, or song on an album. Why do some feel the need to question an opinion and simply not accept it as one person't experience?!
I didn't like it either, and it was my choice to use it or not. I chose not to. I can agree with him without saying 'WoW sucks' I try to keep perspective.
Friends are without a doubt the best way to play, but what happens if your friends are no longer there to play with? Or never really joined you to begin with?
Did you know there is a mechnic in our brain that makes us remember good times. as in the wide scope of things but bad events, as in narrow specific things. This is the main factor most people only remember those bad runs and not the good ones.
Personally i am not to invested in PUG's. I just kick back and relax knowing that if shit happens it is a matter of rez and rebuff. Yeah it is annoying at times when weak-willed tanks scamper like little ants after one wipe, but hey that is life. I have done it my self at times so i can't take to much of a high and mighty position.
As for the tool it self... Love it. No more am i trapped in a town spaming /2 /3 /4 or what ever chat channel i can find for a group. Now i can just que up and be on my merry way doing quests, craft or gather or just head back in to the old world to get revenge on a few old nemesis that got the best of me at lower levels.
Most issues you have are what is called user-issues and in no way related to system it self.
TL:DR: Life sucks, get used to it. LFD tool is great because i do not need to sit in town, People can be idiots.
This have been a good conversation
You have been in bad pugs, we all have been. Some of us also remember running pugs and encountering good friends. Every member of my friendlist I know from PUGs, personal friends I know prior to WoW are already in my vent channel or personal email list, or callable from my mobile.
Bad pug and good pugs, what a surprise. I remember we have the same issues from EQ to whatever game, unless you do not pug. But, is part of the fun of MMOs arising from PUGs?
Random heroics are formed by Blizz, I never got to screen the other members, I seldom see the need to kick anyone unless he behaves in a very irritating manner. I have yet to see someone kicking people based on GS. We all start doing heroics back then in greens and blues. GS and delivery of performance only matters in hardmode runs, or the harder encounters of normal raids.
Honestly you lost all credibility once you said you got perma banned for simply posting on the forums, no warning just insta perma ban. There's obviously more to it then that but you're leaving out the parts that make you look bad and or flat out lying to make yourself look better.
If you want to make a point about something just make the point, don't give QQ stories about how "the man" was out to get ya and you're just a poor helpless person who just happened to wander by. Thats a serious tip btw.
Interesting you mention your a tank. I play a tank - prot warrior to be exact.
My gear score for months hovered around 4600. I wasn't really playing on a regular basis and thus, improving my gear wasn't a priority. Buying gear through badges earned in heroic runs was basically my only way of upgrades. Nobody would allow me to tank in the current high end raids.
With that being said, I never really had a problem holding aggro. Sure, you get dps that is extremely decked out every now and then, who pull aggro like crazy, but general, shit is cash. Even when you get that fury tank who has shadowmourne, or that boomkin who only has level277 ICC25 gear, you just need to step up your game. This means tabbing like crazy, making sure all adds are focused on you. Maybe you should look into addons, there are many out there that can be helpful.
I do have a problem occassionally in heroic Halls of reflection when mother fuckers who don't understand the concept of line of sight try to go rambo while my fat tauren ass sits there waiting for my rage to build.
But %95 of the time, random heroics are pretty much easy. Too be perfectly honest, it sounds like you either are
A) Burnt out
C) lack skill playing a tank
D)lack skill playing WoW
E) lack skill at using a keyboard (I.e. you click all your abilities and keyboard turn....nerd!)
F) lack skill at life (just kidding ;D)
At heroics, tanks have less of an issue unless they're terribad as you mention. Lower lvl however, when they are learning is a different matter.
At 70 my tree had to constantly heal the dps because whether prot pally or prot tank lost aggro for whatever reason, and I couldn't heal everyone because I burned through my mana too fast, I either have to blame the tank or lack wow skills? Always the healer's fault. never had this problem before the tool when now everyone just wants to rush and pull 3-4 groups of mobs because that makes it go so much faster.
Heroics are different I admit. By that time most tanks are great at keeping it and most heals I've noticed (when I played dps) always said they were bored except for HoR like you mentioned, unless they had 6k+ gs. Then it was a cake run.
It isn't the tool itself, nor the tanking mechanics I have a problem with. I just find the attitude of most players I've into have degraded into almost bots running dungeons.
Again, maybe it's the server I was on, but I have found my battlegroup lacking in social comraderie. I didn't quit because of it, but simply I have played since launch and needed something else.
And that's why Blizzard shouldn't listen to burnout people. Games must be adressed at the people who like to play them.
Not adressing " issues" for those individuals who are sick of playing a game for 5 years.
And ... that's not an issue of WOW. It is also the reason all those new games fail to deliver and never attain their hype levels after launch.
Even a fantastic new "extra choice " tool to group up with people is being teared to pieces by the burnouts and long time quitters.
Ignore. "Extra" game mechanics have nothing to do with their state of mind.
Blizzard is actually rather good in recognizing this.
OP discovered that PuGs are usually a bad experience. Guild community or even server community should let you know people that you will comfortable playing with. Dungeon Finder is mainly a tool for qluick grouping, the drawback is that you get what they give you. The problem in wow is that most players consider themselves pros and they've always blame others for their own shortcomings. When Cataclysm and the gear basically resets, it is going to be fun see(I actually wont see it, I am not playing wow atm) these supergeared pro players dealing with new dungeons in greens and blues.
I have leveled a priest and a pally both to 80 as well and I would grind heroics while healing on them. I have also DPS'd heroics on multiple classes and, like I mentioned in an earlier post, I have also tanked heroics. I have also done all three archetypes during raiding.
Here is what I think:
Tanking: Tanking is the hardest job because you have to hold aggro while setting the pace of any run. Holding aggro, while the hardest out of healing and dpsing, is still easy once you know what your doing and you have the right rotation (i.e. what abilities to use over other abilities and at what times).
Healing: Healing can be hard if your tank does not hold aggro and you or your dps gets hit a lot. Pretty easy to understand. However, holding aggro might not necessarily be the tank's fault. If you have crazy dps, then it may be tough on the tank. If everybody is doing their jobs right - tank holding aggro, dps allowing tank to hold aggro but still downing mobs quickly, shit runs smooth like pie. Infact, imo, healing is boring as hell because of this. Watching bars 75% of the time is meh.
DPS: The good DPS i've come across, and I mean the really good DPS, and probably good players in general, is the DPS that does the right thing for his or her group and not to top the damage meters and boost his/her ego. "OH LOOK GUIZE I GET 7K DPS IM FUKING AWSOM U KNOW U WISH U WERE ME!" Another thing I can't stand is when people post damage meters all the time. I use to be guilty of this too, until I started healing and I realized that most people don't give a fuck about how much damage people put out (but we do care about people who do shit for damage - they need to be kicked from the group).
Good DPS knows when to slow down their damage output and let the tank aggro. Good DPS knows when to CC a mob in the back that is beating on the healer. Good DPS knows when to drop their aggro. Good DPS helps the tank succeed, and thus helps the healer succeed in keeping the group alive.
The problem with a lot of players is that they only play DPS classes and lack insight on making the group succeed. That's why I encourage everybody to roll atleast one healer or tank and actually stick with it. That way they will have a better understanding and better respect for other people in their group.
P.S. Ret pallies are the worst DPS ever - pushing 4 buttons over and over ftl
honestly, what did you expect that game to be?
Imagine 11.5 million kids screaming for candy and you decide to give each and every damn one of em all the candy they can stuff into their greedy little faces. no chores,no waiting,no rules or conditions. After the sugar rush, you're left with... well the WoW community: Unsatisfied, cranky and bloated.
They give me coke
Biggest problem with the whole system is the emblem system. Or at the very least the extra reward for "completing" the dungeon. Very often that puts people who really don't want to be there but are doing the run just for the Frost emblems. Get rid of that and you'll get rid of the raiders that have no business being in the dungeons. Perhaps then you'll get like minded people in the group for the heroic.
For the other issues? Meh, you encounter that stuff in every single mutli-player game accross the board. You might encounter it more in WoW just due to the size of the population.
You don't know that the average age of wow player is 28?
I really have to scratch my head at people who have such horror stories with the random group tool or pugs in general and then say the problem is EVERYONE else.
I've run a few hundred random dungeons in the last couple of months and maybe had 3 bad groups where someone had an attitudes and started bitching before they left.
Have there been plenty of below average players, sure, but it has not been cause for repeated wipes or kept our group from finishing the run. Perhaps it has something to do with me being the healer 90% of the runs I do, but still I've had some pretty bad tanks or overgeared dps and things went ok. Some runs a great, but most are not as smooth as when I play with my guildmates. Maybe people just have expectations set to high for a pick up group.
Why does it seem that most instances of someone ranting about how poor the wow community is, they tend to display the exact mentality, emotions and scathing insults that they are complaining about ruining the wow community? Take the language of the original poster for example. Also how hard does someone has to run their mouth to get perma banned from the forums?
If someone is repeatedly having so many problems with such a large pool of random players, perhaps the problem really isn't everyone else since they seem to be the only common factor in these problem situations.