›

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Quick Links

Stardock pulled the Gamer's Bill of Rights, a much needed document for the development of MMO's

DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214
in General Gaming

 

We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

 


  1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

  2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

  3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

  4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

  5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

  6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

  7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

  8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

  9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

  10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
«13

Comments

  • tabarjacktabarjack Member UncommonPosts: 249

    TLDR Version:

    1. Gamers shall have the right to demand a refund if they dont like the game.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to copy games for their friends and comanies are forbidden to complain about it.

     

    Quite frankly, if you dont like a game, tell 5 people you know could potentially buy the game not to buy it, you cause much more harm to a company, not just a gaming company, that way than you do by demanding a refund. If they complain, you say you are within your rights to give your opinion on a product to whomever you want. That being said, don't buy age of conan, its nothing more than a huge deception.

  • Bishop200Bishop200 Member Posts: 68
    I like that, except for point 3 that should apply only to MMO and point 4 that should apply only to SP game.

    Nowthat i think more about it, just delete point 3. We buy a product, we should'nt expect upgrade after. If i buy a car, i don't expect it to become more fuel efficient later.
  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by jackmcleod

    TLDR Version:

    1. Gamers shall have the right to demand a refund if they dont like the game.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to copy games for their friends and comanies are forbidden to complain about it.

     

    Quite frankly, if you dont like a game, tell 5 people you know could potentially buy the game not to buy it, you cause much more harm to a company, not just a gaming company, that way than you do by demanding a refund. If they complain, you say you are within your rights to give your opinion on a product to whomever you want. That being said, don't buy age of conan, its nothing more than a huge deception.

    You're right, don't buy AOC, buy AOC RIse of the Godslayer, lol.

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157

    Totally Agree, Gamers need rights.

    Some games require CD/DVD's in the driver even after a full install for what reason? I have no clue, To avoid piracy but that does not work.

    Xbox 360 having to have a connection to the internet to play some single player games is annoying, not to mention that  the Xbox 360 DRM sucks ass, and I will not ever use a Xbox 360 with such a system it cause too many troubles.

    (Digital Download Stores.) You buy a game for $40 but are only allowed to download it 5 times, these are scam stores, never buy from them.

    These are the worst things I have seen, that I can think of besides MMORPG games that suck.

    The thing I would like to say though is that another right that should be added is if MMO companies would stop using video trailers that lie like Mortal Online. When it says actual game play, it does not show the user interface, and how bad their spell casting system is, it does not really show how it is played, just characters running shooting bows slinging swords, but when I bought this game it was a hell of a lot different.

    APB (All Points Bulletin) This game installed Punk Buster, and software without telling me on the outside of the package before I purchased the game, we are using Punk Buster. This pissed me off, and totally ruined my game play.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697

    Ridiculous, and it is ridiculous everytime someone tries to do something like this.

     

    A company that invests 50-100 million in a product gets a hell of a lot more say on how/when/where that product is used then the person who spent $60, simple as that. And no that doesn't mean you should get to pirate the game so your friends can have copies either, what kind of stupid thought process is that?

     

    People have this odd thought that they deserve/are entitled to so much stuff just because they exist.

     

    You are entitled to only a few things (in the USA, less in some other countries) and crap like this doesn't even come close. Neither does cheaper TV with less commercials or better movies. Entertainment is always purely an option, one you don't have to get involved in. When it comes to entertainment you are owed nothing, ever.

  • marinridermarinrider Member UncommonPosts: 1,556

    I'm going to say that I dont agree with some of those, mainly the one about if it doesnt run on your system, you should be able to return the game.

     

    No, thats just wrong, you were the idiot who bought the game not knowing the specs of your computer to begin with.

     

    Second, the one about the game should run ok on the minimum specs posted.

     

    No again, they are minimum, you will run the game with minimum graphics enabled, thats what that means.  If you want to play the game better, then upgrade.

     

     

    All in all its a good idea but it wouldnt work.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,979

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

    1, within a set time period. I believe there are people who will play the game and then return it after they are done with it.

    2, Finished state has to be defined

    3, meanignful updates have to be defined.

    4, agree

    5, define adequately? If one doesn't define this then someone will say that he game doesn't look like what is advertised on the box.

    6, well of course!

    7, yes makes sense

    8, Depends on the reasons they are being considered as potential criminals.

    9, agreed

    10, why?  I think it's perfectly reasonable to have some level of security. Granted, those that are savvy about getting around copyright protections will be able to, but what is to protect the business from people who buy a game and give it to 20 of their friends?

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Ridiculous, and it is ridiculous everytime someone tries to do something like this.

     

    A company that invests 50-100 million in a product gets a hell of a lot more say on how/when/where that product is used then the person who spent $60, simple as that. And no that doesn't mean you should get to pirate the game so your friends can have copies either, what kind of stupid thought process is that?

     

    People have this odd thought that they deserve/are entitled to so much stuff just because they exist.

     

    You are entitled to only a few things (in the USA, less in some other countries) and crap like this doesn't even come close. Neither does cheaper TV with less commercials or better movies. Entertainment is always purely an option, one you don't have to get involved in. When it comes to entertainment you are owed nothing, ever.

    The Bill was created by a game developer.

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Ridiculous, and it is ridiculous everytime someone tries to do something like this.

     

    A company that invests 50-100 million in a product gets a hell of a lot more say on how/when/where that product is used then the person who spent $60, simple as that. And no that doesn't mean you should get to pirate the game so your friends can have copies either, what kind of stupid thought process is that?

     

    People have this odd thought that they deserve/are entitled to so much stuff just because they exist.

     

    You are entitled to only a few things (in the USA, less in some other countries) and crap like this doesn't even come close. Neither does cheaper TV with less commercials or better movies. Entertainment is always purely an option, one you don't have to get involved in. When it comes to entertainment you are owed nothing, ever.

     you're wrong. we don't think we diserve...we don't feel entitled...we just WANT more for less.

    Everyone wants more for less. I'm not claiming "it's right" or "we diserve it". I just claim "i want it".

     

    why should they give it to us? here's the beautiful part. i don't know and i don't care. I didn't think that far. I'm not trying to justify my greed. As a player I have no interest in their finances. Only in my wallet and my fun. They have people payed to care about their finances. If they pay me to manage their budgets, then I'll start caring. Maybe.

     

    to put it simply, we are all greedy bastards, and pretending otherwise and trying to justify it isn't really fooling anyone. So since the topic is about gamer rights, let's focus on the truth for once. We are greedy, and we want more. The perfect game keeps us entertained for all eternity and is absolutely free. It is in that direction that we want to go.

    not realistic, not possible, but not our problem.

    we are gamers. we play. they're businesses. they manage budgets. I'll think from my POV not theirs.

    Blunt and cynical but pretty much true. No wonder companies are reluctant to listen to us. The more we whine, the deeper we dig our own grave. But, as you said, we don't think that far.

    image

  • wardog250wardog250 Member Posts: 249

    Originally posted by marinrider

    I'm going to say that I dont agree with some of those, mainly the one about if it doesnt run on your system, you should be able to return the game.

    No, thats just wrong, you were the idiot who bought the game not knowing the specs of your computer to begin with.

    Second, the one about the game should run ok on the minimum specs posted.

    No again, they are minimum, you will run the game with minimum graphics enabled, thats what that means.  If you want to play the game better, then upgrade.

    All in all its a good idea but it wouldnt work.

    I think you read the same rule twice and changed it around in your mind to say whatever you wanted it to say.  There was only one rule that talked about system specs.

    Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    What this rule means, if it says on the box the game WILL run on the requirements it says it does, you know your system meets those requirements, and you install the game and it either doesn't work at all or runs horribly even on minimum settings, then it's at the fault of the developers.

    Not really sure how you can see that as being not the developers fault, seeing that they lied.

    What if you bought a car and were told it made 40 miles per gallon, only to find out after buying it that it only made about 20(if you could get it started).  What you are telling me is that you'd be totally okay with that; because, you are the idiot who bought the car.  You do realize that car companies couldn't get away with doing that to people or they would get fined or taken over by Obama right?  So, why is it okay for a software company to lie to people and produce crappy products?

    I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei

  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose Member Posts: 1,558

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Ridiculous, and it is ridiculous everytime someone tries to do something like this.

     

    A company that invests 50-100 million in a product gets a hell of a lot more say on how/when/where that product is used then the person who spent $60, simple as that. And no that doesn't mean you should get to pirate the game so your friends can have copies either, what kind of stupid thought process is that?

     

    People have this odd thought that they deserve/are entitled to so much stuff just because they exist.

     

    You are entitled to only a few things (in the USA, less in some other countries) and crap like this doesn't even come close. Neither does cheaper TV with less commercials or better movies. Entertainment is always purely an option, one you don't have to get involved in. When it comes to entertainment you are owed nothing, ever.

     /thread

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Ridiculous, and it is ridiculous everytime someone tries to do something like this.

     

    A company that invests 50-100 million in a product gets a hell of a lot more say on how/when/where that product is used then the person who spent $60, simple as that. And no that doesn't mean you should get to pirate the game so your friends can have copies either, what kind of stupid thought process is that?

     

    People have this odd thought that they deserve/are entitled to so much stuff just because they exist.

     

    You are entitled to only a few things (in the USA, less in some other countries) and crap like this doesn't even come close. Neither does cheaper TV with less commercials or better movies. Entertainment is always purely an option, one you don't have to get involved in. When it comes to entertainment you are owed nothing, ever.

     you're wrong. we don't think we diserve...we don't feel entitled...we just WANT more for less.

    Everyone wants more for less. I'm not claiming "it's right" or "we diserve it". I just claim "i want it".

     

    why should they give it to us? here's the beautiful part. i don't know and i don't care. I didn't think that far. I'm not trying to justify my greed. As a player I have no interest in their finances. Only in my wallet and my fun. They have people payed to care about their finances. If they pay me to manage their budgets, then I'll start caring. Maybe.

     

    to put it simply, we are all greedy bastards, and pretending otherwise and trying to justify it isn't really fooling anyone. So since the topic is about gamer rights, let's focus on the truth for once. We are greedy, and we want more. The perfect game keeps us entertained for all eternity and is absolutely free. It is in that direction that we want to go.

    not realistic, not possible, but not our problem.

    we are gamers. we play. they're businesses. they manage budgets. I'll think from my POV not theirs.

    Interesting analysis. Capitalism is alive and well.

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund. Isn't that what the minimum requirements listed on the box are for? Recommended requirements are normally much higher.  Also, define "work"? It may work, but you may not like how it performs.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state. Define "finished"? Does that mean all advertised features are in and working at launch or does it mean something else? What if hte features are in, but players don't like them and want them changed - does that mean the game isn't "finished"?  Is it playable?  Is any MMO ever really "complete"? 

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release. Define "meaningful updates"? What if you got what you paid for, plus bug fixes and patches and all new content was released in the form of expansions.  Why do you think you deserve to get entirely new content?  Yes, games like City of Heroes patch in quite a bit of new content, but do you "deserve" it?  Your initial purchase gives you rights to use the license for the game.  Your subscription allows you to use their services to play the game.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game. You want to be able to launch a game directly without going through a patcher or launcher?  That'd be nice, but upon login if your game version doesn't match that which is on the server, expect your install to not work or possibly be corrupted..

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer. "Adequately" is subjective.  What's acceptable to me might not be acceptable to you. As such, in order for this to work, you'd have to define standard performance benchmarks.  Even then, the point is moot, since there are so many other factors that could negatively affect performance than just the hardware profile.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent. I agree with this - I hate progams like GameGuard and yes, they are potentially harmful to your system, as I've personally experienced.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time. 1)  You don't own games.  Ever.  You own a revocable license to play a game.  2)  Can't you already download full versions for most MMOs now? 

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers. This is so nebulous as to be meaningless... Please cite something specific.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play. Agree - this is ridiculous, IMO.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play. Does that still happen?  I haven't had to have a CD/DVD in my drive for years, especially not with a MMO, which is what this website is all about...

    ~Ripper

  • rwmillerrwmiller Member Posts: 472

    Sorry the only right gamers have is the right to slowly bleed to death like a stuck pig while the publishers get rich.

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,519

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.                   I'd have to disagree with this one, unless you mean your system is the what the box says for recommended or minimum requirments. Then I would agree.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state. Define finished state? What do you want from this finished state because thats a matter of opinion to some. And what i mean by that is I load up Fallout MMO and I start a quest yet I am unable to finish it, but I am still able to do everything else that is fun in the MMO. Is a bug really considered an unfinished product if its fixable in a reasonable manner.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release. QFT!!! QFT!!! QFT!!!

    4.  Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game. ? dont games need to be updated?

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer. Well this is same as number 1 in a essence.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent. Who would ever want to consent to putting potential harmful software?

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time. Latest version? With expacs or what? what do you mean?

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers. Guessing your a criminal.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play. QFT!!! QFT!!! QFT!!!

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play. As annoying as this is, I like this better then DRM crap we have to deal with when the games dont require the disk to play.

    image
  • NoaaniNoaani Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

     

     


    Ok, so I'm looking at your post, then looking at the title of the thread, then looking back at your post again.


     


    What does 8, 9 or 10 have to do with MMOs at all?


     


    As for 1, it is impossible for every game to be tested on every possible configuration of potential computer components. if a game is not working on a large number of machines with a large variety of components, then a patch to get it working is in order. If the game is not working for you, but is working for everyone else, its your fault its not working, not the developers.


     


    Point 4, again, in the case of MMOs (re: thread title), its not exactly going to work if you are playing one version of the game and everyone else is playing another version. For single player games I would agree, but you specified MMOs.


     


    5, minimum requirements are just that. If you want to know if your computer will run the game adequately, look at the recommended requirements.


     


    So yeah, try again.

  • unherdninjaunherdninja Member Posts: 331

    ~ Gamers shall have the right to whine and bitch about little things that dont matter.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Noaani

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

     

     


    Ok, so I'm looking at your post, then looking at the title of the thread, then looking back at your post again.


     


    What does 8, 9 or 10 have to do with MMOs at all?


     


    As for 1, it is impossible for every game to be tested on every possible configuration of potential computer components. if a game is not working on a large number of machines with a large variety of components, then a patch to get it working is in order. If the game is not working for you, but is working for everyone else, its your fault its not working, not the developers.


     


    Point 4, again, in the case of MMOs (re: thread title), its not exactly going to work if you are playing one version of the game and everyone else is playing another version. For single player games I would agree, but you specified MMOs.


     


    5, minimum requirements are just that. If you want to know if your computer will run the game adequately, look at the recommended requirements.


     


    So yeah, try again.

    This document was created by a game developer. Should something like this be applicable to MMO's and adopted across the industry?

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by unherdninja

    ~ Gamers shall have the right to whine and bitch about little things that dont matter.

    You're totally missing the point.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Originally posted by Noaani

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

     

     


    Ok, so I'm looking at your post, then looking at the title of the thread, then looking back at your post again.


     


    What does 8, 9 or 10 have to do with MMOs at all?


     


    As for 1, it is impossible for every game to be tested on every possible configuration of potential computer components. if a game is not working on a large number of machines with a large variety of components, then a patch to get it working is in order. If the game is not working for you, but is working for everyone else, its your fault its not working, not the developers.


     


    Point 4, again, in the case of MMOs (re: thread title), its not exactly going to work if you are playing one version of the game and everyone else is playing another version. For single player games I would agree, but you specified MMOs.


     


    5, minimum requirements are just that. If you want to know if your computer will run the game adequately, look at the recommended requirements.


     


    So yeah, try again.

    This document was created by a game developer. Should something like this be applicable to MMO's and adopted across the industry?

     No, it should not be.

    Why? Because it is unfocused, it would penalize developers for consumer mistakes, it contradicts itself, it would allow for easier pirating of intellectual property rights, and its just generally poorly written.

    No game developer wrote this, at least, not one with an education.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    I voted "yes", though #6, as far as we're concerned, is useless.  When you accept their terms of use, you are giving them consent to install harmful drivers to your system.

    So number 6 would have to be amended.  "thou shalt not require installation of their own hardware drivers to make the game run.  Hardware drivers are created by hardware manufacturers and OS authors, and games are manufactured to use those drivers."

    Edited for clarity.

  • gauge2k3gauge2k3 Member Posts: 442

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     

    We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

     


    1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

    2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

    3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

    4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

    5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

    7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

    8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

    9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

    10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

    As for number 1.  I agree, so long as the computer is was bought for was in the minimum specs posted on the box.  Otheriwse that is the buyers fault.

    Now number 8.  What if you are a criminal.

    I think you could change most of those into one rule.

    #. DRM won't effect the customer more than the thief.

    That pretty much says it all right there.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by wardog250

    Originally posted by marinrider

    I'm going to say that I dont agree with some of those, mainly the one about if it doesnt run on your system, you should be able to return the game.

    No, thats just wrong, you were the idiot who bought the game not knowing the specs of your computer to begin with.

    Second, the one about the game should run ok on the minimum specs posted.

    No again, they are minimum, you will run the game with minimum graphics enabled, thats what that means.  If you want to play the game better, then upgrade.

    All in all its a good idea but it wouldnt work.

    I think you read the same rule twice and changed it around in your mind to say whatever you wanted it to say.  There was only one rule that talked about system specs.

    Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

    What this rule means, if it says on the box the game WILL run on the requirements it says it does, you know your system meets those requirements, and you install the game and it either doesn't work at all or runs horribly even on minimum settings, then it's at the fault of the developers.

    /Agree

    Also, just because your PC has all the minimum requirements to play, that doesn't mean it will play.  While Direct X has gone a long way to establish common compliance, there's still plenty that can prevent a game from working on a perfectly good system.

    Thus someone should have every right to return it, within a reasonable amount of time, as Sovrath suggested.

  • IslandDogIslandDog Member Posts: 1

     


    I just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    StardockI just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    StardockI just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    Stardock

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by IslandDog

     


    I just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    StardockI just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    StardockI just wanted to clarify that Stardock did not pull the GBoR.


     


    It has always had it's own dedicated site which is maintained by Stardock.


     



     


    RPS erroneously wrote about a 2 year old news link that was broken on one of our sites.


     


    -Spencer


     


    Stardock

    You are totally right, i stand corrected. Read a story today from Stardock's CEO saying that there was inaccurate reporting concerning the Gamer's Bill of rights and that it has has been moved from their website.

    "With regards to a post on Rock Paper Shot Gun, which picked up the PC Gamer UK story, they erroneously point to a 2+ year old URL to a Stardock news item that is no longer active (we switched news systems a year or so ago). Their article falsely implies that we have stepped away from our commitment to the Gamer’s Bill of Rights."

    http://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

    I'm happy that Stardock did not pull the Gamer's Bill of rights. I might have to buy Elemental to support this developer.

Sign In or Register to comment.