We await the Mac Donalds, personal opinion and sandbox statements.
Mate, start to act your age, please.
Couldn't you tell the OP was just toying around, hoping for just the kind of reaction you're giving him?
If you enjoy WoW, sure, keep on doing that, everyone should have fun with the MMO they're playing. The whole "this MMO is better than that one, and this MMO sucks and that one rules" is hilarious and strongly resembling the discussion 8 year old kids have on their playgrounds, surely we have outgrown that?
Tastes differ, and if one MMO gamer loves to play WoW and another LotrO or an EQ2 or AoC, then so be it, that's the benefit of having variety in games, that each MMO fan can play the type of MMO he/she loves to play.
But going all red seeing bull like in blind devotion or hating, man, that's embarassing in any situation even outside games. Just leave it be.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
WoW will be alive as long as people are addicted to chasing after better gear and anxiously await the next five or ten levels available in the next expansion, so they can keep their better gear chasing addiction fires burning.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5 SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.
I agree.
But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre.
This.
I still think this alone is the real reason why GW2 is getting such hype; simply because ANet are being so explicit about the fact that they are trying to do things entirely differently to WoW and the other major competitors.
I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.
I agree.
But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre.
This.
I still think this alone is the real reason why GW2 is getting such hype; simply because ANet are being so explicit about the fact that they are trying to do things entirely differently to WoW and the other major competitors.
Funny thing is the team at arenanet has more of WoW's original devs than WoW has.
Just for the record I come to mmorpg alot and I can only think when I read a post that says what we want that I'm one of the we so I'd have to say this post is wrong "we" don't want a WOW killer, but some people do want to play what is considered the number one mmo on the market and I guess know they don't like WOW. I don't care though and don't believe in a "WOW killer". Games don't kill other games the owners of those games do no matter how people want to view it.
While WOW shattered the numbers done by mmo's before it not one single game can WOW claim responsibility for running out of the industry most of the games that existed pre WOW are still around and many of the games to fail post WOWs launch had little to do with WOW in theme or design.
While I applaud the innovative thought line the op uses for this post I have to say the point is one without true merit.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
WoW destroyed the genre years ago when it introduced the casual kids/players to the MMO world and also when it introduced the fps like pvp play to its mmo. Most of the MMO's that come out these days are nothing more than a pvp pissing contest, no lore, no adventuriing, no raiding. Thankfully theres still a small handful of companies that stay true to the genre like Square enix and release true MMORPG's. I am loving how no one like FFXIV because I know 90% of them are the wow kids that are iching for a new mmo that mimics wow, welp kiddies no pvp here and you wont be level capped in a month sorry.
We await the Mac Donalds, personal opinion and sandbox statements.
Mate, start to act your age, please.
Couldn't you tell the OP was just toying around, hoping for just the kind of reaction you're giving him?
If you enjoy WoW, sure, keep on doing that, everyone should have fun with the MMO they're playing. The whole "this MMO is better than that one, and this MMO sucks and that one rules" is hilarious and strongly resembling the discussion 8 year old kids have on their playgrounds, surely we have outgrown that?
Tastes differ, and if one MMO gamer loves to play WoW and another LotrO or an EQ2 or AoC, then so be it, that's the benefit of having variety in games, that each MMO fan can play the type of MMO he/she loves to play.
But going all red seeing bull like in blind devotion or hating, man, that's embarassing in any situation even outside games. Just leave it be.
Curious I didn't made one personal statement.
Clearly using the personal opinion statement to justify the personal agression against people who simply put "?" behind the concept of these forums and their questionable attitude towards "this game must die concept".
Let me get this straight ...
I question the validity in numbers of the "we want" statement (250 users logged in) used on this site and you come banging in with fanboy statements because I pointed out what everyone knows:
... there is hardly anything worth discussing at all.
It is an empty statement in a rather empty forum community. You are not going to promote anything by calling out names to players of WOW.
It isn't a WoW killer that we need, it is WoW players to open their eyes and see there is more to MMOs than just the WoW approach to them.
Isn't it the MMO developers job to "open their eyes"? Why don't you just let people play whatever they want to play instead or suggesting we need to enlighten people of what they should like.
Because they are woefully uniformed, and its our duty to enlighten them.
This is why I think religion is a bad idea. Sure, believe whatever you want. Just don't try pushing it on other people.
Then you don't understand the purpose of religion either.
Yes I do. Organized religion is about power and keeping people in line. Nothing scares me more than blind faith in a fantasy figure concocted in ancient times. But this is another discussion entirely.
Only reason I brought it up is you seem to be under the impression that you know something and need to enlighten people. Thing is, people can probably make up their own minds about what they want to do in a MMO. Many have tried what is up for offering and found WoW to be the best. If you can't live with that fact you have serious issues.
No, I don't want a "WOW Killer". I would like to see some quality MMO's come out though. As it is now the only MMO I can play for extended periods of time is WOW, it's simply superior to everything else, and Cataclysm is gonna widen that gap even further.
"Yes I do. Organized religion is about power and keeping people in line. Nothing scares me more than blind faith in a fantasy figure concocted in ancient times. But this is another discussion entirely."
What? You doubt the wisdom of illiterate desert dwellers from 2000 years ago?! Yeah, good call. Lawls @ adults with infantile beliefs.
I'm not going to read this whole thread, but here's what I think based on the thread title. We don't need to kill WoW, WoW is fine. What we need to kill is the mindset producers and designers have that they must re-create WoW in order to have success. That thinking has stifled and stagnated the whole industry since WoW came out. I don't blame WoW though, I blame the greed and shortsightedness of the people responsible for creating games in the MMOG genre... Let's also not forget the consumer. Does it not seem to everyone in the overall MMOG fan community that every time someone tries to think outside the box we crucify them for it? I mean how dare they make something different (that was me being sarcastic BTW)? TBH it's probably going to be a slow and painful process, with a lot of casualties along the way, and we're already seeing it. I just hope that the industry doesn't implode and turn into a giant Farmville-fest before things start getting better.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
... there is hardly anything worth discussing at all.
It is an empty statement in a rather empty forum community.
If you think this is an empty forum community while apparetnly there are in your eyes far better ones, don't you think you're wasting your time here, hmm?
Anyway, read your first posts in this thread again. Clearly you missed the real intentions of the OP and clearly you missed that most posters are not looking for a WoW killer but just good fun MMO games, in your rant to state how bad and biased against WoW the posters on mmorpg.com are. In fact, the majority of the posters in this thread showed more sense and reason in their view than that.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There is also another reason for the recent spate of unimaginative and run of the mill MMORPGs. It is our fault too. Why do I say that ? We don't give ideas a chance and any game that tries to be different has also been bug ridden and unstable in some cases. If this was when EQ was launched we would have stuck around and suffered the problems while the game patched and redeemed itself but now we bail on games because we say to hell with this I deserve better.
Yes well we do deserve better but by bailing on games they falter and fail and then we come to the forums and ruminate on the state of the genre while glossing over our own involvement in the slide to mediocrity. I am not saying that it is all our fault and companies do owe it to us to make the game more stable but not every company is awash with cash and resources .They have ideas that might get better but we just don't have the time any more to waste on waiting for them to come to fruition.
Then we all hold grudges and have elephant memories from the time the other game the company made failed and made us upset and angry. So like a spurned lover we refused to give the company another chance. Well don't complain then when companies decide to go the WoW route.
I think the only "We" out there who wants a so-called WoW killer are the publishers and developers who also spend too much time, effort and money trying to figure out how to best WoW instead of just making games people want to play. This is what happens when at the end of the journey there is nothing but dollar signs and no sustainability. WoW is part of a generation that did something many of the new games don't, try and prove to gamers their product was worth a box price and a monthly fee. They had to solicit gamers and convince us to do it. These new companies and/or new games, a lot of them show up at the door with their hands out demanding their boxed price, their monthly fee and then spend the next year convincing you why that's not enough to actually give you the game you thought you paid for and how you need to commit to a full year before the features advertised will be available, if even that soon.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
There is also another reason for the recent spate of unimaginative and run of the mill MMORPGs. It is our fault too. Why do I say that ? We don't give ideas a chance and any game that tries to be different has also been bug ridden and unstable in some cases. If this was when EQ was launched we would have stuck around and suffered the problems while the game patched and redeemed itself but now we bail on games because we say to hell with this I deserve better.
Yes it is our fault, but not for the reasons you are referring to. It's our fault because we pay for subpar products, let the marketing teams earn their paychecks and then some by falling for unsupported hype and then rinse and repeat the process with each new game.
Yes well we do deserve better but by bailing on games they falter and fail and then we come to the forums and ruminate on the state of the genre while glossing over our own involvement in the slide to mediocrity. I am not saying that it is all our fault and companies do owe it to us to make the game more stable but not every company is awash with cash and resources .They have ideas that might get better but we just don't have the time any more to waste on waiting for them to come to fruition.
You're darn right we deserve better, and releasing buggy products lacking in content and throwing in cash shops on top of that is not behavior that should be supported. If anything, what we can do better is not the buy the game in the first place, and certainly not stick around giving them sub money for that.
Then we all hold grudges and have elephant memories from the time the other game the company made failed and made us upset and angry. So like a spurned lover we refused to give the company another chance. Well don't complain then when companies decide to go the WoW route.
Companies like Cryptic deserve the reputation they have, and they know it. Alganon tried the WoW route, and failed horribly in doing so. I believe there was plenty complaining about it too.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
But in realty, would it really be WoW that this "WoW Killer" would kill, or would it really be the Genre and most of the smaller populated MMO?
It already almost happened. Farmville nearly killed WoW. Laugh if you want, but "social games" that spread like viruses across facebook have rattled the industry and changed how companies are looking at how players interact with each other and the real world - its an innovation in marketting rather than design, but it seems to me that it worried Blizzard enough to lurch towards RealID. As much as I've come to despise Facebook as a company, if I am wrong about it being just a fad and it does take over the world, it may help launch some new MMO-ish thing into the stratosphere.
This.
If someone would have told me 5 years ago that my mother would be a hardcore MMO junkie at the tender age of 60, I'd say you were nuts.
Yet she grinds away on FrontierVille about as much as I used to grind away on CoH or EVE.
I should have seen this coming but, like all of us, I always thought the competition to WoW was going to come from SOE, Mythic, or NCSoft.
But, like most things, the competition is coming from places we never even expected doing things we never considered important.
This used to be a genre that had something for everyone: crafting, community life, combat, escapism. Now, the games like WoW are designed exclusively for 13 to 30 year old white and asian males who watch UFC and listen to Godsmack. They did this by taking out all the things this important, but narrow, demographic doesn't like (housing, crafting, economics, deep gameplay) to focus on all the things they do like ("team sports" gameplay, ladders, PvP, guildpeen).
So when you take away all the things the housewives, girls, middle-aged professionals, and intellectuals like, you create a vaccum. And the thing that fills that is going to score.
As a result, isn't it any wonder why these games like Farmville are taking off? They brought back all the things that games like WoW took out. And they are doing it more cheaply, with less overhead, with less hassle.
The way you kill WoW is to give the tons of people who aren't 13-30 year old white and asian males who watch UFC and listen to Godsmack a reason to play MMOs.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Here is one way to look at this entire Blizzard/WoW killer issue.
Think of Blizzard as the PC gaming equivilant to what Microsoft is to the PC OS business. Both are highly successful software companies, both put out products that are easily accessible to the masses, and generally liked by the masses. And lets be honest, even with a flop like Vista, noone ran off and installed UNIX on thier home PC, they just dealt with it and waited for Windows 7 to come out and fix the mess. Sure, some people finally made that swap they always felt like doing and hopped on the Steve Jobs bandwagon, but not everyone. And if we think of Blizzard in the same way, thier customers will most liekly do the same. Even if Cataclysm is a total flop, most of Blizzards customers will stay right where they are and deal with it. A few will jump ship to that game they always wanted to try, but not everyone. BUT, you have to remember that even Microsoft has it niche, and customers outside that niche do in fact use UNIX, Leopard, or whatever they feel works best for them. And the same goes for WoW. And just like Microsoft, there will be times when thier great empire does get pushed out of the #1 seat to someone who does it a bit different, a bit better. Blizzard will have the same time come to them as well, its called business, competition.
As for the thought of a defeated WoW causing a fall to the entire genre, not going to happen. WoW is just one of many out there and its fail will just be a ripple in the waves. Whatever takes it place will do exactly that, take its place.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Originally posted by MMOExposed We all want a WoW Killer, but is it WOW that it will really kill, or the genre itself?I see it daily on these forums, people asking for a so called "WoW KILLER", but time after time, it seems more new MMORPGs flop and fail to come anywhere close to those expected levels.The majority see this "WoW Killer" as a game that would reduce WoW sub count, and have higher sub numbers than WoW itself.But in realty, would it really be WoW that this "WoW Killer" would kill, or would it really be the Genre and most of the smaller populated MMO?Just think about it. WoW is the top MMORPG in the world right now. If something came out that was better than WoW, well wouldnt WoW just simply slip into 2nd place?But what would happen to all the 3rd place and 4place, etc of other MMORPGs in the genre? If anything, Wouldnt a WoW Killer, basically Kill all Non WoW games as well?Also I seen the argument, that the reason people want a WoW killer, would be to simply stop the WoW clones in the genre.But WoW is only 6years old, yet after all of its popularity it managed to cause a mass amounts of clones, in a similar way Everquest once did with (DAoC and WoW).But with a new WoW Killer, wouldnt it be only be a short time before that new game would be cloned to death like WoW was? Then we would run into the same problem we currently are in with the WoW clone trend.And with the other lesser MMORPGs dead, this WoW killer would be an apocalypse on the MMORPG genre.Now with Blizzcon on the way, what if Blizzard's new MMORPG turned out to be this "WOW KILLER?"
wow. someone really hates wow. wow will "retire" when its at its time to. stop rushing it and stop making new threads about it already. find somethin else to troll about.
The only thing that will topple WoW, will very likely do as much if not more harm that WoW did to the industry.
The main reason why WoW is so popular is because it's over polished and dumbed down enough for the masses to get into. Consequently, it's also an extremely shallow and based largely around instant gratification. The only way to truly compete with WoW head on is to broaden gameplay as much if not more than WoW, which consequently, will attract more non MMO gamers into the MMO fray, illiciting demands of further simplification of the genre, not to mention their community destroying attitudes.
It's quite honestly why I'm more worried than excited about SWTOR. It looks like it may very well be a threat to WoW... and an even bigger threat to the MMO industry as a whole.
Do i want to kill wow or the genre.... eh... i've played wow enough to realise it has no real point in playing it so.. so imho , kill wow.... but it's really none of my business or even power to attain such achievement... now would i be happy to see him out of the loop ... well yeah i honestly would... but killing the genre ? hmm no way... the reason we started playing wow is because of the genre... except for the flaws that make it a cynical game to play... so like many i would be expecting one day to a mmorpg come along and literally rock the crap out of everything... like wow did on it's own time... personally after paying so many month's of a mmorpg sub just to see higher level cap over time and the time wasted... i personally got fed of it.. no point going on, its the infinite loop that generates them money and wastes my time, well as many mmo's do... except some are actually fun over time.
I don't want a WoW killer. I do want a fantasy genre slimmer. Fantasy MMOs take too big a chunk of the subscription pie, and always have. If Blizzard's next MMO isn't fantasy, I will be quite happy, and will never notice when or if WoW expires.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I see it the other way around. Maybe not always the most visually stunning games, but above all fun to play. Blizzard always puts gameplay first. It's even one of their internal development mantras.
Their games might not be visually stunning, but they have a way of designing the looks of their games to look appealing by providing graphical carrots-on-sticks whether it is the loot on the ground in D2 or how mob corpses glisten in WoW. I'm having a hard time conveying what I mean, but if you compare how WoW looks to something like Vanguard, I hope you can see what I am getting at.
I think the art is partly worked into the game mechanics and can have certain effects on how players perceive the game. Blizzard are masters at this, they seem to have a winning formula from SC, WC1-3, WoW, D1/2, etc. Other games are kind of drab in comparison and though there are players who can overlook this or aren't as affected by it as others, I think that overall WoW 'speaks' to players in a certain way that the less shiny and colorful games can't or don't.
As far as gameplay mechanics go, yes Blizzard games do seem pretty good, but not necessarily always the best. There are lots of things about the play in WoW that I feel aren't as good as in other MMOs, partly hence why I don't play WoW anymore. Their games are easy to get into and easier to master than most other games of similar genres. I don't consider that to be better gameplay though because sometimes I feel like WoW is too easy nowadays and therefore the lack of challenge becomes boring after a point. Blizz handholds players too much nowadays. A lot of RP elements in WoW were removed to facilitate/smooth the gameplay. This has left me a bit puzzled: why were the demon trainers for warlocks taken out, for example? They didn't really serve a purpose in some ways, but they were cool from a roleplay perspective.
I find it fascinating that people are so interested in finding a WoW killer. What does it truly matter if WoW stays large or not?
McDonalds and Subway are the largest restaurant chain stores. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that they sell really great food. They serve their purpose by being "good enough" and convenient. If you actually want a quality hamburger or sub, you have dozens of choices from much, much smaller chains (or independent stores).
WoW is much the same as McDonalds anymore. It is easy to get into and level (hence an ever-increasing population of kids...my daughter played when she was 11 and 12, and she had various friends her age playing as well), has increasing variety of options (like McDonalds), and will work on older machines (convenience). In other words, popularity doesn't require quality.
I would personally love to see more variety. I am watching the progress of Black Prophecy and Jumpgate Evolution (I really do miss Tie Fighter and that entire genre that is pretty much gone now). I would like to see things other than fantasy, but I'll take better games regardless of genre.
I find it fascinating that people are so interested in finding a WoW killer. What does it truly matter if WoW stays large or not?
McDonalds and Subway are the largest restaurant chain stores. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that they sell really great food. They serve their purpose by being "good enough" and convenient. If you actually want a quality hamburger or sub, you have dozens of choices from much, much smaller chains (or independent stores).
WoW is much the same as McDonalds anymore. It is easy to get into and level (hence an ever-increasing population of kids...my daughter played when she was 11 and 12, and she had various friends her age playing as well), has increasing variety of options (like McDonalds), and will work on older machines (convenience). In other words, popularity doesn't require quality.
I would personally love to see more variety. I am watching the progress of Black Prophecy and Jumpgate Evolution (I really do miss Tie Fighter and that entire genre that is pretty much gone now). I would like to see things other than fantasy, but I'll take better games regardless of genre.
That's probably the best description I've read to date. World of Warcraft is easily accessible, can play on a PC equivalent to a toaster oven, easy enough for Helen Keller to play, difficult enough with its hard modes to tailor to the more seasoned players, cheap, and there's enough things on the "menu" to choose from whether its PvP, raids, crafting, questing, making money, or leveling. As someone that has been playing since open beta in 2004 and owner of Vanilla Collector's Edition, I always plan on having a subscription.
I played EVE Online here and there and that was the closest I've come to leaving World of Warcraft for another game. I just wish the crafting/manufacturing system were better; iunno how, but if mining wasn't as....boring, I'd stick around.
________________________ Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."
Comments
Mate, start to act your age, please.
Couldn't you tell the OP was just toying around, hoping for just the kind of reaction you're giving him?
If you enjoy WoW, sure, keep on doing that, everyone should have fun with the MMO they're playing. The whole "this MMO is better than that one, and this MMO sucks and that one rules" is hilarious and strongly resembling the discussion 8 year old kids have on their playgrounds, surely we have outgrown that?
Tastes differ, and if one MMO gamer loves to play WoW and another LotrO or an EQ2 or AoC, then so be it, that's the benefit of having variety in games, that each MMO fan can play the type of MMO he/she loves to play.
But going all red seeing bull like in blind devotion or hating, man, that's embarassing in any situation even outside games. Just leave it be.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
WoW will be alive as long as people are addicted to chasing after better gear and anxiously await the next five or ten levels available in the next expansion, so they can keep their better gear chasing addiction fires burning.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
This.
I still think this alone is the real reason why GW2 is getting such hype; simply because ANet are being so explicit about the fact that they are trying to do things entirely differently to WoW and the other major competitors.
Funny thing is the team at arenanet has more of WoW's original devs than WoW has.
Just for the record I come to mmorpg alot and I can only think when I read a post that says what we want that I'm one of the we so I'd have to say this post is wrong "we" don't want a WOW killer, but some people do want to play what is considered the number one mmo on the market and I guess know they don't like WOW. I don't care though and don't believe in a "WOW killer". Games don't kill other games the owners of those games do no matter how people want to view it.
While WOW shattered the numbers done by mmo's before it not one single game can WOW claim responsibility for running out of the industry most of the games that existed pre WOW are still around and many of the games to fail post WOWs launch had little to do with WOW in theme or design.
While I applaud the innovative thought line the op uses for this post I have to say the point is one without true merit.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
WoW destroyed the genre years ago when it introduced the casual kids/players to the MMO world and also when it introduced the fps like pvp play to its mmo. Most of the MMO's that come out these days are nothing more than a pvp pissing contest, no lore, no adventuriing, no raiding. Thankfully theres still a small handful of companies that stay true to the genre like Square enix and release true MMORPG's. I am loving how no one like FFXIV because I know 90% of them are the wow kids that are iching for a new mmo that mimics wow, welp kiddies no pvp here and you wont be level capped in a month sorry.
Curious I didn't made one personal statement.
Clearly using the personal opinion statement to justify the personal agression against people who simply put "?" behind the concept of these forums and their questionable attitude towards "this game must die concept".
Let me get this straight ...
I question the validity in numbers of the "we want" statement (250 users logged in) used on this site and you come banging in with fanboy statements because I pointed out what everyone knows:
... there is hardly anything worth discussing at all.
It is an empty statement in a rather empty forum community. You are not going to promote anything by calling out names to players of WOW.
Yes I do. Organized religion is about power and keeping people in line. Nothing scares me more than blind faith in a fantasy figure concocted in ancient times. But this is another discussion entirely.
Only reason I brought it up is you seem to be under the impression that you know something and need to enlighten people. Thing is, people can probably make up their own minds about what they want to do in a MMO. Many have tried what is up for offering and found WoW to be the best. If you can't live with that fact you have serious issues.
No, I don't want a "WOW Killer". I would like to see some quality MMO's come out though. As it is now the only MMO I can play for extended periods of time is WOW, it's simply superior to everything else, and Cataclysm is gonna widen that gap even further.
"Yes I do. Organized religion is about power and keeping people in line. Nothing scares me more than blind faith in a fantasy figure concocted in ancient times. But this is another discussion entirely."
What? You doubt the wisdom of illiterate desert dwellers from 2000 years ago?! Yeah, good call. Lawls @ adults with infantile beliefs.
I'm not going to read this whole thread, but here's what I think based on the thread title. We don't need to kill WoW, WoW is fine. What we need to kill is the mindset producers and designers have that they must re-create WoW in order to have success. That thinking has stifled and stagnated the whole industry since WoW came out. I don't blame WoW though, I blame the greed and shortsightedness of the people responsible for creating games in the MMOG genre... Let's also not forget the consumer. Does it not seem to everyone in the overall MMOG fan community that every time someone tries to think outside the box we crucify them for it? I mean how dare they make something different (that was me being sarcastic BTW)? TBH it's probably going to be a slow and painful process, with a lot of casualties along the way, and we're already seeing it. I just hope that the industry doesn't implode and turn into a giant Farmville-fest before things start getting better.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
If you think this is an empty forum community while apparetnly there are in your eyes far better ones, don't you think you're wasting your time here, hmm?
Anyway, read your first posts in this thread again. Clearly you missed the real intentions of the OP and clearly you missed that most posters are not looking for a WoW killer but just good fun MMO games, in your rant to state how bad and biased against WoW the posters on mmorpg.com are. In fact, the majority of the posters in this thread showed more sense and reason in their view than that.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
MMO's will never die they will just evolve into VR =P
star craft based mmo by bliz will be the wow killer. mark my words.
There is also another reason for the recent spate of unimaginative and run of the mill MMORPGs. It is our fault too. Why do I say that ? We don't give ideas a chance and any game that tries to be different has also been bug ridden and unstable in some cases. If this was when EQ was launched we would have stuck around and suffered the problems while the game patched and redeemed itself but now we bail on games because we say to hell with this I deserve better.
Yes well we do deserve better but by bailing on games they falter and fail and then we come to the forums and ruminate on the state of the genre while glossing over our own involvement in the slide to mediocrity. I am not saying that it is all our fault and companies do owe it to us to make the game more stable but not every company is awash with cash and resources .They have ideas that might get better but we just don't have the time any more to waste on waiting for them to come to fruition.
Then we all hold grudges and have elephant memories from the time the other game the company made failed and made us upset and angry. So like a spurned lover we refused to give the company another chance. Well don't complain then when companies decide to go the WoW route.
I think the only "We" out there who wants a so-called WoW killer are the publishers and developers who also spend too much time, effort and money trying to figure out how to best WoW instead of just making games people want to play. This is what happens when at the end of the journey there is nothing but dollar signs and no sustainability. WoW is part of a generation that did something many of the new games don't, try and prove to gamers their product was worth a box price and a monthly fee. They had to solicit gamers and convince us to do it. These new companies and/or new games, a lot of them show up at the door with their hands out demanding their boxed price, their monthly fee and then spend the next year convincing you why that's not enough to actually give you the game you thought you paid for and how you need to commit to a full year before the features advertised will be available, if even that soon.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
This.
If someone would have told me 5 years ago that my mother would be a hardcore MMO junkie at the tender age of 60, I'd say you were nuts.
Yet she grinds away on FrontierVille about as much as I used to grind away on CoH or EVE.
I should have seen this coming but, like all of us, I always thought the competition to WoW was going to come from SOE, Mythic, or NCSoft.
But, like most things, the competition is coming from places we never even expected doing things we never considered important.
This used to be a genre that had something for everyone: crafting, community life, combat, escapism. Now, the games like WoW are designed exclusively for 13 to 30 year old white and asian males who watch UFC and listen to Godsmack. They did this by taking out all the things this important, but narrow, demographic doesn't like (housing, crafting, economics, deep gameplay) to focus on all the things they do like ("team sports" gameplay, ladders, PvP, guildpeen).
So when you take away all the things the housewives, girls, middle-aged professionals, and intellectuals like, you create a vaccum. And the thing that fills that is going to score.
As a result, isn't it any wonder why these games like Farmville are taking off? They brought back all the things that games like WoW took out. And they are doing it more cheaply, with less overhead, with less hassle.
The way you kill WoW is to give the tons of people who aren't 13-30 year old white and asian males who watch UFC and listen to Godsmack a reason to play MMOs.
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Here is one way to look at this entire Blizzard/WoW killer issue.
Think of Blizzard as the PC gaming equivilant to what Microsoft is to the PC OS business. Both are highly successful software companies, both put out products that are easily accessible to the masses, and generally liked by the masses. And lets be honest, even with a flop like Vista, noone ran off and installed UNIX on thier home PC, they just dealt with it and waited for Windows 7 to come out and fix the mess. Sure, some people finally made that swap they always felt like doing and hopped on the Steve Jobs bandwagon, but not everyone. And if we think of Blizzard in the same way, thier customers will most liekly do the same. Even if Cataclysm is a total flop, most of Blizzards customers will stay right where they are and deal with it. A few will jump ship to that game they always wanted to try, but not everyone. BUT, you have to remember that even Microsoft has it niche, and customers outside that niche do in fact use UNIX, Leopard, or whatever they feel works best for them. And the same goes for WoW. And just like Microsoft, there will be times when thier great empire does get pushed out of the #1 seat to someone who does it a bit different, a bit better. Blizzard will have the same time come to them as well, its called business, competition.
As for the thought of a defeated WoW causing a fall to the entire genre, not going to happen. WoW is just one of many out there and its fail will just be a ripple in the waves. Whatever takes it place will do exactly that, take its place.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
The only thing that will topple WoW, will very likely do as much if not more harm that WoW did to the industry.
The main reason why WoW is so popular is because it's over polished and dumbed down enough for the masses to get into. Consequently, it's also an extremely shallow and based largely around instant gratification. The only way to truly compete with WoW head on is to broaden gameplay as much if not more than WoW, which consequently, will attract more non MMO gamers into the MMO fray, illiciting demands of further simplification of the genre, not to mention their community destroying attitudes.
It's quite honestly why I'm more worried than excited about SWTOR. It looks like it may very well be a threat to WoW... and an even bigger threat to the MMO industry as a whole.
Do i want to kill wow or the genre.... eh... i've played wow enough to realise it has no real point in playing it so.. so imho , kill wow.... but it's really none of my business or even power to attain such achievement... now would i be happy to see him out of the loop ... well yeah i honestly would... but killing the genre ? hmm no way... the reason we started playing wow is because of the genre... except for the flaws that make it a cynical game to play... so like many i would be expecting one day to a mmorpg come along and literally rock the crap out of everything... like wow did on it's own time... personally after paying so many month's of a mmorpg sub just to see higher level cap over time and the time wasted... i personally got fed of it.. no point going on, its the infinite loop that generates them money and wastes my time, well as many mmo's do... except some are actually fun over time.
I don't want a WoW killer. I do want a fantasy genre slimmer. Fantasy MMOs take too big a chunk of the subscription pie, and always have. If Blizzard's next MMO isn't fantasy, I will be quite happy, and will never notice when or if WoW expires.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Their games might not be visually stunning, but they have a way of designing the looks of their games to look appealing by providing graphical carrots-on-sticks whether it is the loot on the ground in D2 or how mob corpses glisten in WoW. I'm having a hard time conveying what I mean, but if you compare how WoW looks to something like Vanguard, I hope you can see what I am getting at.
I think the art is partly worked into the game mechanics and can have certain effects on how players perceive the game. Blizzard are masters at this, they seem to have a winning formula from SC, WC1-3, WoW, D1/2, etc. Other games are kind of drab in comparison and though there are players who can overlook this or aren't as affected by it as others, I think that overall WoW 'speaks' to players in a certain way that the less shiny and colorful games can't or don't.
As far as gameplay mechanics go, yes Blizzard games do seem pretty good, but not necessarily always the best. There are lots of things about the play in WoW that I feel aren't as good as in other MMOs, partly hence why I don't play WoW anymore. Their games are easy to get into and easier to master than most other games of similar genres. I don't consider that to be better gameplay though because sometimes I feel like WoW is too easy nowadays and therefore the lack of challenge becomes boring after a point. Blizz handholds players too much nowadays. A lot of RP elements in WoW were removed to facilitate/smooth the gameplay. This has left me a bit puzzled: why were the demon trainers for warlocks taken out, for example? They didn't really serve a purpose in some ways, but they were cool from a roleplay perspective.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I find it fascinating that people are so interested in finding a WoW killer. What does it truly matter if WoW stays large or not?
McDonalds and Subway are the largest restaurant chain stores. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that they sell really great food. They serve their purpose by being "good enough" and convenient. If you actually want a quality hamburger or sub, you have dozens of choices from much, much smaller chains (or independent stores).
WoW is much the same as McDonalds anymore. It is easy to get into and level (hence an ever-increasing population of kids...my daughter played when she was 11 and 12, and she had various friends her age playing as well), has increasing variety of options (like McDonalds), and will work on older machines (convenience). In other words, popularity doesn't require quality.
I would personally love to see more variety. I am watching the progress of Black Prophecy and Jumpgate Evolution (I really do miss Tie Fighter and that entire genre that is pretty much gone now). I would like to see things other than fantasy, but I'll take better games regardless of genre.
That's probably the best description I've read to date. World of Warcraft is easily accessible, can play on a PC equivalent to a toaster oven, easy enough for Helen Keller to play, difficult enough with its hard modes to tailor to the more seasoned players, cheap, and there's enough things on the "menu" to choose from whether its PvP, raids, crafting, questing, making money, or leveling. As someone that has been playing since open beta in 2004 and owner of Vanilla Collector's Edition, I always plan on having a subscription.
I played EVE Online here and there and that was the closest I've come to leaving World of Warcraft for another game. I just wish the crafting/manufacturing system were better; iunno how, but if mining wasn't as....boring, I'd stick around.
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Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."