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Star Wars: The Old Republic: KOTOR in The Old Republic
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In this week's column about Star Wars: The Old Republic, MMORPG.com Community Manager reveals a dirty little secret: He loved Knights of the Old Republic II. He liked the first KOTRO enough but two was -it- for him. Mike spends time in this column considering what aspects of the KOTRO series could be effectively brought into play in Star Wars: The Old Republic. See what he thinks then add your own ideas to the mix.
While Star Wars: The Old Republic is an MMO and is also set several hundred years after the events of the Knights of the Old Republic games, Bioware often likes to say that The Old Republic is “KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6..” etc. This week we’ll talk about what that really means and what we hope Bioware brings over from the beloved RPG series.
Read more Star Wars: The Old Republic: KOTOR in The Old Republic.
Comments
Just one thing about KOTOR II:
Chris Avellone is the man. To me his stuff is usually more fun, deeper, more sophisticated. He's done Planescape: Torment and this beauty, for F's sake - top that, Bioware!
No shame in that. KotOR2 was fantastic. It just wasn't *finished*.
Let's not kid ourselves. Obsidian Entertainment has some serious game. They just need to learn to allow themselves enough time and money to finish and polish a product before they release it.
They had the same problem with Neverwinter Nights 2. Story-wise it made Bioware's first NWN offering look just sad. The characters were more fleshed out and interesting, the story didn't revolve around retrieving artifacts (first some monster parts, then evidence, then Words of Power), it was just better all the way around. Again, like with KotOR2, they just tripped at the finish line.
I will say that Chris Avellone appears to have dinner with the Grim Reaper every Thursday night, though. KotOR2's ending? "Hmm. How can we handle... aha! I'll take control away from the players via cutscenes and kill the characters I just spent a whole game making beloved." NWN2? "Hmm... I've got it! I'll squash everyone under falling rocks! They'll never see it coming!"
The man has a serious fetish for making his audience an emotional wreck.
"So the ladies really liked Bishop, eh? We'll just see about that! Let's see how they like him once he's *dead* and his soul's being stripped away on the Wall of the Faithless!"
As for Bioware and SWTOR... They've proven they don't need our help anymore. They've officially reached 'the next level'. They can say to the world that their games have pristine storytelling and be spot-on true. That's why I don't worry about SWTOR. It's in good hands. Good, proven hands.
I agree whole-heartedly with the Jennifer Hale suggestion - just keep this guy far, far away (excuse the pun) from it:
Mark Meer aka Male Shepard Voice
Jennifer Hale is a must, but as far as I understand it she's already in and doing some major VO role.
You just gotta love how she brought so much more emotion and intensity to the female Shepard, really loved her in here:
How To Be A Complete Bitch, Mass Effect-style classic!
If Bioware can bring characters as colorful as DA:O's Morrigan, Baldur's Gate Minsc or all the ones from ME2 for that matter, then it'll be fun and interesting to have them around
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
+1 on pazaak...loved that card game
Also the bounty missions were a lot of fun with dialogs, maybe chansing a player and dialog him before fighting him, epic.
Been replaying Kotor 2 with the restored content mod, if you can forgive the slight glitchiness it is well worthwhile. I sure hope the MMO will be worth the wait, but it is going to be a tough sell for most of my mmo buddies who are very cynical these days given fail after failure of recent releases... looking at you AoC, STO etc!
Kotor I and II both good games imho, Bioware's RPG/mmo will carry that legacy on, in a different kinda way..
I am just happy to have a new Star Wars game, done by a good company and not those dillweeds at soe 
I'm gonna have to agree with everyone else. KOTOR II was fun, but the ending sucked because the game was unfinished. It's such a shame too.
I understand the fan project to finish KOTOR II has also died.
Totally 100% agree on the KOTOR II compared to KOTOR I thing...Always loved both Games but DEFINITELY preferred II over I, finished and broken or not...
I LOL'd at the Jennifer Hale comment. I completely agree. Bring her back!
I completely agree with this article about KOTOR II. While it may be true that KOTOR II was unfinished to some degree, I still feel the story was deeper and more interesting in KOTOR II. I think it was more true to life and what a jedi would really deal with. It wasn't black and white, it was more in shades of gray and it really made you think about your decisions.
I played KOTOR 1 when it first came out, and the same with KOTOR II. While I truly enjoyed KOTOR 1 KOTOR II completely had me hooked, I couldn't put it down until I had beaten it.
Don't get me wrong, Bioware is my favorite company, and I loved KOTOR 1, and I couldn't be more excited about TOR, I just feel like KOTOR II had the deeper of the two stories.
KOTOR II is one of my fav games and i pretty much agree with everything (so sad it was rushed by LA) i hope too that in SWTOR there will be more grey areas and more "weight" on the moral choices/approach
i'm quite positive that bioware will go in this route, even reading various interviews it seem that some classes will have a lot of focus on the grey area and "difficult choices" so i'm crossing my fingers
for chars like Kreia i think it will be a bit more difficult as, in most bioware games the focus is the main character and the companion are well defined but in the end not very "complex" and dont tend to "drive the story" as Kreia did in KOTOR II (ok maybe Morrigan from DA is a bit of an exception :P)
and ofc i hope to hear the voices of good actors/actress like Jennifer Hale, Claudia Black, Steve Blum and Liz Sroka
I honestly hope they keep a lot of both KOTR 1 & 2 in the MMO, they are the closest games have got to making me feel like being part of that universe. From playing Pazaak (thinking about Han and Lando playing Pazaak and losing the Falcon), to the speeder bike races on alien worlds, and the epic sith and jedi battles. Although I can honestly say I have lost a lot of interest in this game since the video showing a jedi acting like a cleric from a traditional MMO. I know that the Devs said that the game was not going to play like that, that the jedi and sith will be more active in combat. That was also supposed to be true of the Warrior priest and Disciple of Khaine in Warhammer online. When that game launched there was tons of people that just set in the back and just healed like a traditional MMO cleric. So I have no doubt that I will see people doing the same when Star Wars TOR comes out, and to me that is completely not Star Wars. This of course is just my opinion, since I have been a Star Wars fan since childhood my views on the universe is pretty set in stone, I know the first time I see a Jedi being used as a healer this game will be dead to me. So I really do not have high hopes, I am hoping I can stomach it for a couple months to see the story.
While KOTOR2 was buggy as hell and difficult to play at times because of it, it had better game play than the first one. More abilities, skills, force powers, etc. The characters were more bizarre and hard to categorize. I do hope we find out something about the characters from the second game, even if it is just vague hints.
Kotor 1 had Jolee Bindo, and therefore wins.
/thread
Love KotOR I and II and completely agree both on the improvements made in the overall mechanics of KotOR II and the obviously unfinished ending. I’ll see your Jennifer Hale and raise you a Liz Sroka because who doesn’t love Tali. I also have a man crush on Carth Onasi and hope that Raphael Sbarge has a place in the game.
Speaking of seeing and raising, I’m with you on both Pazaak and swoop racing. These are two mini games I would spend a lot of time on. Hell, I see Pazaak and betting on swoop races being a part of the economy that no other MMO has had before (to my admittedly limited knowledge)
On the crafting front, I just can’t imagine WoW style farming and crafting in a space game… That would totally kill the mood. It will probably be more complex than KotOR II crafting, but I certainly hope we don't have to hunt for herbs and tan leather to make bags in which to carry our crafting components.
See, I'm not a huge fan of the whole "grey" thing, at least in this context. I know it's the trendy thing these days to make everything "shades of grey" and morally ambiguous, but canon Star Wars really has very little of that. The line between good guys and bad guys is usually very clear, and any abiguity is usually some darksider trying to manipulate you. Sure, Han was a smuggler and seemed all shady when he shot Greedo, but it was just so you'd be surprised when he revealed the heart of gold at the end. Lando made a bad deal and worked to redeem himself as soon as it became clear.
Rebels/Imperials. Jedi/Sith. Light Side/Dark Side. Good vs. Evil (with the capitals) is the primary motivator in all of Star Wars. I'd hate for the game to lose sight of that just to try and be "edgy." They tried it in the NJO books with the whole "there is no Dark Side" bit, and ended up retconning it right out with "nah, she was secretly evil the whole time, and he's a Sith now cause he listened to her."
Life is complex and ambiguous. Star Wars isn't.
lol i guess ill be the first to say i enjoyed KOTOR1 more then #2.. But i loved em both.. But KOTOR1 was my game.. It sucks too cuz i recently sold both #1 & #2 on craigslist for $20 each heh.. Its funny right after you sale something you really wish you had it back..
Wonder if steam has em lol
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I loved both games but preferred 1 over 2 for quite a few reasons. The missing content, the unfinished ending and the whole concept of Darth Nihilus...
I mean Darth Nihilus? Come on. Please. I know that there are some ridiculously overpowered characters and force powers in the EU in general, but Nihilus really takes the biscuit.
Ignoring those 3 main issues KotOR II was a great game and in some ways even better than the first. For instance, I preferred the slightly different combat mechanics and also the more indepth crafting in KotOR II.
What do I hope carries over to SW:ToR? I would really like to find out more about Revan, Malak, Bastila and the Jedi Exile. What really happened to them after the events of those two games? Also, what happened to Jolee Bindo, Mission, Carth, and the rest of the original crew? We know what happend to Ebon Hawk crew mk II due to that old bat Kreia telling us at the end(?) of KotOR II.
Most of all though, I need HK-47 to be included in SW:ToR in some way or other. HK-47 for president of the world! He would sort all you meatbags out
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Lets be honest here. Only one good thing about the kotor series.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
I wholeheartedly agree that HK-47 was, indeed, the most entertaining game character I've had the pleasure to experience to date. I'm throughly excited for this game (except for the debauchery that is Jedi Wizard) and I'm sure I won't be disappointed here, but to really make the entire feeling complete, I feel HK will have to be here somehow. Hell, if he even managed to get into SWG, how could he NOT be here?
In terms of the "shades of grey" department, I think this mechanic would only best be served for RP or personal satisfaction purposes for the same reasons Sabrel mentioned. Also, I have a feeling ToR will benefit full Light/Dark side positioning like they did in KoToR 1 (aka giving certain perks to stats or powers), and to be honest I'd enjoy seeing that. Make it a challenge to reach that, for sure, but to have nothing show for your choices except story (which I also agree 100% to be amazing about this game) would be wrong for those who want to experience the game outside the boundaries of the story as well.
If they do reward you for being a paragon of light and dark, how would you be awarded for being grey? If nearly every choice and story action affect you, staying completely neutral would be impossible, the grey characters would have almost nothing to show for their efforts (except personal gratification).
Balance Over All
I couldnt be bothered to play ME.. but.. that youtube video is hillarious..
I enjoyed slaughtering my shipmates near the end of KOTOR 1. I absolutely despised KOTOR 2 for the simple fact that it was a bug-ridden mess. I couldn't bring myself to finish it I was so disgusted. My favorite bug had me lose my entire team after a mission; having to fight hordes of enemies solo was aggravating, and watching my character talk to non-existent characters during cut-scenes was hilarious.
I'm all for Jennifer Hale voiceing again, i mean come on, who couldn't resist the voice of Junko "Juni" Zane from Freelancer?
As for Kotor moments well, Swoop racing is something i enjoyed, wasn't too keen on Pazaak i'm sorry to say. I prefer the gameplay of KotOR2 but the story of KotOR1.