Has it been confirmed that any player volunteers actually have GM powers? It sounds like a lot have people on these forums have been conflating "GM" with "Councelor" and "Mod" (forum moderator), which has seemed to cause some confusion.
So, can someone verify that a player can volunteer and get unlimitted GM powers?
No a volunteer gets Councelor powers. The so called 'issue' is that GM's (Paid employees) also play the game in guilds.
NO this is incorrect. The "issue" is that there were (still are?) players who were GMs with full GM powers including the ability to BAN other players. At least 1 GM and 1 High Councelor were also guildleaders in the same game they were moderating.
Edit to clarify: These were PLAYERS and not paid employees. As someone said above.. there are 1-2 paid GMs.. all the rest of the GMs and Councelors are volunteer players.
Sorry, I might be missing something. Can you confirm who the GM was that was also a guildleader? Any evidence of it (not asking for proof, just a reason to believe it)?
Can you confirm there's players that volunteered and received full GM powers?
Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to separate the facts from internet rumor-mongering.
In the meantime we'll just have to deal with players being GM/counselor with SV supervising their actions (like EVE and CCP)
Has there been any word on a timeframe for them to expand to multiple servers which would aliviate this problem?
I think I answered that question in my post...
" Of course SV plans to expand the game beyond Myrland, so even if the player population increases significantly, there will probably only be a second server if the player base outpaces the expansion of the geography. "
Perhaps I am misunderstanding but that appears to be a description of the environment which would precipitate a second server as opposed to a timeframe which would would be.. a 1-3 months, 3-6 months, 6 months to a year, 2 years.... etc
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Sorry, I might be missing something. Can you confirm who the GM was that was also a guildleader? Any evidence of it (not asking for proof, just a reason to believe it)?
Can you confirm there's players that volunteered and received full GM powers?
Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to separate the facts from internet rumor-mongering.
The information has been linked on here multiple times, but unfortunately the text also included details of exploiting and cheating which is against the rules of this site so it was properly deleted. The internet is a wonderful place though so I am sure if you look you will find what you seek.
Edit to add: Otherwise feel free to ask the company!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Just about all the GM’s are actual players in the game and volunteers who many suspect of using GM related powers to the benefit of their game character & guild.
There continue to be many hacks and cheats with many new ones introduced with each patch and an economy that is borked as a result since no corrective measures to delete hacked or duped items appear to have been taken.
There is no evidence of any player remaining banned as names many players know that have been reported hundreds of times by dozens of players continue to be in game and we hear rumors of those who have been banned all being reinstated within days of the ban.
There is no evidence or even statement with regard to what proactive measures SV is taking or what tools it has to detect cheating.
1. The same goes for most indie games, they just can't afford hiring GMs. Even a bit larger games like AoC have many player GMs.
2. Also something common in indie games, hacks takes a lot of work to find, even large companies like Blizzard had problems with this and in some cases were hacks active for many months. They will most likely slowly kill most of them but it takes time, they just have 3 programmers (or so I heard).
3. Once again, a really small company with few employees. Either you can ban everyone who gets reported in or spend time researching it which makes ban rare, neither are good.
4. Not surprised, they still try to patch the game to playable.
Darkfall had the same problem and it took them pretty long time to fix most of the crap, this will also take time. Either you have to live with it or try something with a better funding. It is the bad things with indie games, the good thing is that they can make them the way they want them and don't have to listen to suits who want another competitor to Wow.
Not really helpful, I know. If you players stay around they will eventually fix them but I myself prefer games that are well coded and who have more resources even if the indie games have their good things. Eve used to be a indie game and became good because they had enough faithful players but many others had to close down since their players didn't have the same patience.
Sorry, I might be missing something. Can you confirm who the GM was that was also a guildleader? Any evidence of it (not asking for proof, just a reason to believe it)?
Can you confirm there's players that volunteered and received full GM powers?
Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to separate the facts from internet rumor-mongering.
The information has been linked on here multiple times, but unfortunately the text also included details of exploiting and cheating which is against the rules of this site so it was properly deleted. The internet is a wonderful place though so I am sure if you look you will find what you seek.
Edit to add: Otherwise feel free to ask the company!
Aye, I saw that link (the copypastebin or whatever it's called?) on the official forums. (I came across MO at a very strange time it seems, lol) It's not really confirmation; that's the example of 'internet rumor-mongering' that I was talking about. I've played enough MMO's to know not to trust people who say to me "my other character's a GM, I'm gonna have you banned!"... (that, and I'm been on the internet long enough not to take anonymous postings too seriously in-themselves)
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
Sorry, I might be missing something. Can you confirm who the GM was that was also a guildleader? Any evidence of it (not asking for proof, just a reason to believe it)?
Can you confirm there's players that volunteered and received full GM powers?
Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to separate the facts from internet rumor-mongering.
The information has been linked on here multiple times, but unfortunately the text also included details of exploiting and cheating which is against the rules of this site so it was properly deleted. The internet is a wonderful place though so I am sure if you look you will find what you seek.
Edit to add: Otherwise feel free to ask the company!
This information that is going around is clearly untrue.
A Volunteer and a GM being SCAPEGOAT FOR A COMPANIES FINANCES?! That's absolutely obsurd. Apart from the fact their recent financial report tells us they're financially fine now how do you blaim a GM for financial issues?
So they're banned, removed from the GM / Counsellor team but are still ingame?
Hmm ok. As for duped items I've heard reports of steel items disappearing a month back. We havn't seen the millions of duped gold anywhere, infact half the keep spots/housing spots are not even built. So the whole 'no items were removed' can not be true.
No ones been banned? Dig the forums and look for several public whiners. Plenty have been perma banned.
Then where did the mentioned GM/players go? They (GMs and Guildleaders) just magically quit on the very same day? Come now.. perhaps some of what was stated in that document was exagerated and that is why I have been very reluctant to use any of it... but that fact that the players WERE in fact GMs seems very likely.
As I said.. ask StarVault. There is even a post on their forums right now (been there for a few days) with a player asking if it was possible to volunteer to become a full GM in game and they were told yes.. contact XXX. Post hasn't been deleted...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
I am curious. What "proof" would you require other than the GM/Players in question posting like they did... with no denial from the company? The people in question even posted their official Emails from SV to their GM accounts....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
I am curious. What "proof" would you require other than the GM/Players in question posting like they did... with no denial from the company? The people in question even posted their official Emails from SV to their GM accounts....
I never said I wanted proof; I know that 'proving' something like this is near impossible with our resources. I didn't see these official emails (nor do I know in what format those emails were reproduced), so I can't speak to that (if someone could forward that email to me I'd be thrilled... if the contents are damning and the headers are intact, you can be sure I'll take this matter more seriously).
I'm just a bit cynical... one of the accusers' guild-mates even said they were consistent liars. Maybe that guildie is just a fanboy, or a dev in disguise, I really don't know. But it seems there's a lack of critical analysis of this information... I guess I'm concerned that some people are believing these claims immediately after hearing them for whatever reason.
And to be fair, you can't expect a game company to deny every rumor that applies to them. From a PR perspective, one shouldn't legitimize absurd claims by making heart-felt denials. It sounds good in practice, but I haven't seen it work well for most companies, most of the time.
but, can you link that post you were referring to (where someone asked if they could volunteer and receive full GM powers)? I couldn't find it (though admittedly I didn't look too hard... gotta head to work soon).
I never said I wanted proof; I know that 'proving' something like this is near impossible with our resources. I didn't see these official emails (nor do I know in what format those emails were reproduced), so I can't speak to that (if someone could forward that email to me I'd be thrilled... if the contents are damning and the headers are intact, you can be sure I'll take this matter more seriously).
I'm just a bit cynical... one of the accusers' guild-mates even said they were consistent liars. Maybe that guildie is just a fanboy, or a dev in disguise, I really don't know. But it seems there's a lack of critical analysis of this information... I guess I'm concerned that some people are believing these claims immediately after hearing them for whatever reason.
The EMails in question were posted on this forum by the GM/Player in question. They were deleted when the thread was deleted (I assume because it contained repeated references to methods of exploiting). Again though.. yes people have accused the GM/Player of exagerating some of his claims about what happened behind the scenes (of course.. no proof was required of THOSE people), but I believe even the "guildie" you quote did not dispute that his guildleaders were GMs in game.
Edit to add:
PS: if you cannot find the thread (though it is there).. simply create a new one on the forums and ask if it is possible for a players to become a GM in game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Serious Concerns" is exactly what I feel about this game after all the mud slinging that has been done about it. All games have thier na sayers for sure but this one seems to have so many that I can't help but think some, if not most, of it is true. This coupled with my late beta experiences with MO means I simply am not going to touch this product with a ten foot pole. I hope SV can pull it together but the rumors are so over whelming about this game I think people are crazy for dropping that much money on it.
Bugs, exploits, bla bla bla, hackers, bla bla scandal bla bla scam bla bla. Serious concerns...no shit Sherlock.
Despite all that shit going on, MO slowely but steadly improves. I like their design decisions ( the only one I don't is probably the whole spawners thingy ) and the whole game system even if huge part of it is still on paper. Why ? Becuase they actually communicate with their community and are clear about their short and long term plans. Something I hope OTHER companies would learn. Yes I look at you Aventurine.
How many MMO developers who actually think and make games outside the present WoW clone do you know ? Most of them are to afraid to take the risk. Publishers ? The big players ? All they think about is what next IP to exploit to squeeze out some profit.
It is better if games like DF or MO survive and grow ( hopefully in population AND content ), just for our own good.
It is better if games like DF or MO survive and grow ( hopefully in population AND content ), just for our own good.
That's your opinion and it's certainly vaild. Mine is opposite (at least regarding MO). We have to STOP lowering the bar and accepting stuff that even the developers acknowledge is broken, buggy and unfinished. I don;t care if it's a sandbox, a themepark or something else. Developers must learn that their plans should include actually shipping a game that is mostly complete at that time... Accepting whatver they shovel out the door with vague promises of fixing it later does nothing but further lower the bar for the next company.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It is better if games like DF or MO survive and grow ( hopefully in population AND content ), just for our own good.
That's your opinion and it's certainly vaild. Mine is opposite (at least regarding MO). We have to STOP lowering the bar and accepting stuff that even the developers acknowledge is broken, buggy and unfinished. I don;t care if it's a sandbox, a themepark or something else. Developers must learn that their plans should include actually shipping a game that is mostly complete at that time... Accepting whatver they shovel out the door with vague promises of fixing it later does nothing but further lower the bar for the next company.
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
Not surprised, considering the game looks like if it's still in early beta. Many people were called trolls around here because they told the truth. This game needs like another year of polishing. Of course there will be a lot of bugs and exploits if the game was released less than half baked.
It is better if games like DF or MO survive and grow ( hopefully in population AND content ), just for our own good.
That's your opinion and it's certainly vaild. Mine is opposite (at least regarding MO). We have to STOP lowering the bar and accepting stuff that even the developers acknowledge is broken, buggy and unfinished. I don;t care if it's a sandbox, a themepark or something else. Developers must learn that their plans should include actually shipping a game that is mostly complete at that time... Accepting whatver they shovel out the door with vague promises of fixing it later does nothing but further lower the bar for the next company.
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
As I stated in my response to your quote above. You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
As I stated in my response to your quote above. You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
But if SV had not shipped the game when they did (bugs and unfinished content or not), they would have gone under and the game would never have been released at all. In this case, it is preferable for them to release the game and someday hopefully develop it into a great game than to let it die before it has a chance...
And its not like Star Vault lied to you. They told everyone to begin with that the game would be released in a very unfinished state. Only those who wished to support the product should have bought it under those conditions... yet there are still people like you all over these forums claiming that you were somehow cheated by them. Give me a break...
If fans of sandbox games don't start lending their support to companies like Star Vault who actually try to make a game that breaks the mold, no one will ever succeed at this type of game again. Do you seriously think that any big-name developer will attempt a game like this with such a vocal and whiney community who are seemingly unsatisfied with anything? Fat chance...
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
As I stated in my response to your quote above. You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
But if SV had not shipped the game when they did (bugs and unfinished content or not), they would have gone under and the game would never have been released at all. In this case, it is preferable for them to release the game and someday hopefully develop it into a great game than to let it die before it has a chance...
And its not like Star Vault lied to you. They told everyone to begin with that the game would be released in a very unfinished state. Only those who wished to support the product should have bought it under those conditions... yet there are still people like you all over these forums claiming that you were somehow cheated by them. Give me a break...
If fans of sandbox games don't start lending their support to companies like Star Vault who actually try to make a game that breaks the mold, no one will ever succeed at this type of game again. Do you seriously think that any big-name developer will attempt a game like this with such a vocal and whiney community who are seemingly unsatisfied with anything? Fat chance...
If what SV made was actually of good quality, then people would buy it and sub for it. Shoveling out money as "support" is exactly the wrong thing to do. Not everyone is meant to succeed.
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
As I stated in my response to your quote above. You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
But if SV had not shipped the game when they did (bugs and unfinished content or not), they would have gone under and the game would never have been released at all. In this case, it is preferable for them to release the game and someday hopefully develop it into a great game than to let it die before it has a chance...
And its not like Star Vault lied to you. They told everyone to begin with that the game would be released in a very unfinished state. Only those who wished to support the product should have bought it under those conditions... yet there are still people like you all over these forums claiming that you were somehow cheated by them. Give me a break...
If fans of sandbox games don't start lending their support to companies like Star Vault who actually try to make a game that breaks the mold, no one will ever succeed at this type of game again. Do you seriously think that any big-name developer will attempt a game like this with such a vocal and whiney community who are seemingly unsatisfied with anything? Fat chance...
If what SV made was actually of good quality, then people would buy it and sub for it. Shoveling out money as "support" is exactly the wrong thing to do. Not everyone is meant to succeed.
Exactly. SV are failing because they are amateurs who don't have a clue what they are doing. You can have a low budget and deliver quality products its been proven many times. MO is a compilation of silly mistakes and bad decisions, starting with such thing as wanting to use the Unreal engine which isn't adapted at all to a seamless MMO. then comes all the shit with regards to having client side characters, client side hitboxes etc.
Had they done a good job of programming and knowing their shit, they could have released an a bit smaller game with everything working great and decent content in it.
You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
I don't want games like that to simply survive, but to improve and catch up with the design vision. I am not interested in MO surviving in the present early beta state.
I agree with the general poor working culture between software development companies, escpecially gaming industry. It is a broad subject and there have been books writen about this topic alone.
If faulty designed and produced car breaks case accidents, millions of cars are recalled to the home company in bid to avoid legal compensation claims. You don't see the same thing happening, when your software crashes and you lose hours, days or months of hard work. The whole software industry lacks of proper legislation to prevent unprofessional behaviour AND create quality standards.
I doubt it will ever happen with game industry as it never happened with any other art: music, film etc. The only regulators on this market are us: customers and critics.
We do not have any more GMs that are playing the game, the ones we have now is not biased, the funny thing is that both sides of the conflict says the exact same thing. We would only be stupid if we helped one side as thats not how to make a mmo grow. We would never help one side as it would only ruin the game development.
We do not have any more GMs that are playing the game, the ones we have now is not biased, the funny thing is that both sides of the conflict says the exact same thing. We would only be stupid if we helped one side as thats not how to make a mmo grow. We would never help one side as it would only ruin the game development.
He is right, they have no GMs. But counselors, and High Counselors, are players. Again another great fight was ruined by a biased high counselor who temp banned over 75% of one sides forces for, suspected "exploiting" yet, when everyone asked if anyone had exploited no one replied right away. Later we found out that ONE of our members had used a exploit to get into the opposing sides keep. But we also found out that the door was unlocked during the WHOLE battle. Which is something the GM/Counselor did not take into consideration. I myself went into the keep after the door shut when the initial rush went through. I just openend the door normally. As did another member later in the battle. Yet out of 13 people at the fight 10 were banned because of ONE "exploiter". And yet AGAIN in the previous days battles when the oppositon attacked our keep they used the EXACT same exploit, not once, but twice to get in through our palecade gate and the keep door, which both were locked. And the only GM/highcounselor online was the same one that banned people tonight. And in the next battle he banned people for hitting a wall of a rival guild with a axe.
So in the TL;DR version.
One GM/Counselor banned over 14people in 2 seperate cases on ONE side, yet ignored the otherside when they used the EXACT same exploits.
Things that make you go hmm.....
Currently MO is standing on the cusp of my sig.... "So much crap, so little quality."
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
I am curious. What "proof" would you require other than the GM/Players in question posting like they did... with no denial from the company? The people in question even posted their official Emails from SV to their GM accounts....
Honestly?
Your source is a person who claims that StarVault is falsifing business records. This is probably the number 1 issue (at least it SHOULD BE) of the whole "scandal" ! The funny part is this isnt the issue that most people are focusing on including you. This persons "NDA" in which they dont seem to care about anyway with this entire disclosure is in fact the reason they dont wish to cite more information. Again please explain reasons how volunteer or "paid" (we still havent decided if they ARE paid or not) volunteers are involved in the financial aspect of a publically traded company enough to be considered thus scapegoat.
Doesent that raise any red flags to you? The most information ive seen of this is a login page with a person named gm_*numbers* .. Sorry that doesent validate such a person as a trustworthy entity for me. I guess im not a truther tho.
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
I am curious. What "proof" would you require other than the GM/Players in question posting like they did... with no denial from the company? The people in question even posted their official Emails from SV to their GM accounts....
Honestly?
Your source is a person who claims that StarVault is falsifing business records. This is probably the number 1 issue (at least it SHOULD BE) of the whole "scandal" ! The funny part is this isnt the issue that most people are focusing on including you.
I believe perhaps you confused your reply and it was meant for someone else. At no time did I focus on any claim that SV was "falsifying business records". I do not believe I even mentioned this... but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
What I DID focus on was the fact that it is very, VERY bad business to allow someone who is a Guildleader to vollunteer as a GM in a full-loot, FFA, PvP, sandbox, MMORPG currently focused on Guild vs Guild territory control (at least when they are GMs on the same server they are leading a guild on).
As for the trustworthiness of the people involved well that leads to one of two possibilities. The first is that they put untrustworthy people into the GM role (which certainly adds to the suspicion of GM abuse). The second is that they put trustworthy people into the GM role (which adds credence to the claims these people are making about SV).
EIther way.. Guildleader GMs = baaaaad idea.
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Sorry, I might be missing something. Can you confirm who the GM was that was also a guildleader? Any evidence of it (not asking for proof, just a reason to believe it)?
Can you confirm there's players that volunteered and received full GM powers?
Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to separate the facts from internet rumor-mongering.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding but that appears to be a description of the environment which would precipitate a second server as opposed to a timeframe which would would be.. a 1-3 months, 3-6 months, 6 months to a year, 2 years.... etc
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The information has been linked on here multiple times, but unfortunately the text also included details of exploiting and cheating which is against the rules of this site so it was properly deleted. The internet is a wonderful place though so I am sure if you look you will find what you seek.
Edit to add: Otherwise feel free to ask the company!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1. The same goes for most indie games, they just can't afford hiring GMs. Even a bit larger games like AoC have many player GMs.
2. Also something common in indie games, hacks takes a lot of work to find, even large companies like Blizzard had problems with this and in some cases were hacks active for many months. They will most likely slowly kill most of them but it takes time, they just have 3 programmers (or so I heard).
3. Once again, a really small company with few employees. Either you can ban everyone who gets reported in or spend time researching it which makes ban rare, neither are good.
4. Not surprised, they still try to patch the game to playable.
Darkfall had the same problem and it took them pretty long time to fix most of the crap, this will also take time. Either you have to live with it or try something with a better funding. It is the bad things with indie games, the good thing is that they can make them the way they want them and don't have to listen to suits who want another competitor to Wow.
Not really helpful, I know. If you players stay around they will eventually fix them but I myself prefer games that are well coded and who have more resources even if the indie games have their good things. Eve used to be a indie game and became good because they had enough faithful players but many others had to close down since their players didn't have the same patience.
Aye, I saw that link (the copypastebin or whatever it's called?) on the official forums. (I came across MO at a very strange time it seems, lol) It's not really confirmation; that's the example of 'internet rumor-mongering' that I was talking about. I've played enough MMO's to know not to trust people who say to me "my other character's a GM, I'm gonna have you banned!"... (that, and I'm been on the internet long enough not to take anonymous postings too seriously in-themselves)
The accusations could be true ofc, but I hope that's not the sole basis for all this drama. I don't want to invest time and money in a game that's poorly operated, but I don't wanna drop a game based on internet drama either (there's not a lot of games that appeals to me, hence why I was interested in an indy (read: buggy) mmo).
This information that is going around is clearly untrue.
A Volunteer and a GM being SCAPEGOAT FOR A COMPANIES FINANCES?! That's absolutely obsurd. Apart from the fact their recent financial report tells us they're financially fine now how do you blaim a GM for financial issues?
So they're banned, removed from the GM / Counsellor team but are still ingame?
Hmm ok. As for duped items I've heard reports of steel items disappearing a month back. We havn't seen the millions of duped gold anywhere, infact half the keep spots/housing spots are not even built. So the whole 'no items were removed' can not be true.
No ones been banned? Dig the forums and look for several public whiners. Plenty have been perma banned.
Then where did the mentioned GM/players go? They (GMs and Guildleaders) just magically quit on the very same day? Come now.. perhaps some of what was stated in that document was exagerated and that is why I have been very reluctant to use any of it... but that fact that the players WERE in fact GMs seems very likely.
As I said.. ask StarVault. There is even a post on their forums right now (been there for a few days) with a player asking if it was possible to volunteer to become a full GM in game and they were told yes.. contact XXX. Post hasn't been deleted...
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I am curious. What "proof" would you require other than the GM/Players in question posting like they did... with no denial from the company? The people in question even posted their official Emails from SV to their GM accounts....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
after reading every single post in this thread. i have decided to reopen my darkfall subscription.
I never said I wanted proof; I know that 'proving' something like this is near impossible with our resources. I didn't see these official emails (nor do I know in what format those emails were reproduced), so I can't speak to that (if someone could forward that email to me I'd be thrilled... if the contents are damning and the headers are intact, you can be sure I'll take this matter more seriously).
I'm just a bit cynical... one of the accusers' guild-mates even said they were consistent liars. Maybe that guildie is just a fanboy, or a dev in disguise, I really don't know. But it seems there's a lack of critical analysis of this information... I guess I'm concerned that some people are believing these claims immediately after hearing them for whatever reason.
And to be fair, you can't expect a game company to deny every rumor that applies to them. From a PR perspective, one shouldn't legitimize absurd claims by making heart-felt denials. It sounds good in practice, but I haven't seen it work well for most companies, most of the time.
but, can you link that post you were referring to (where someone asked if they could volunteer and receive full GM powers)? I couldn't find it (though admittedly I didn't look too hard... gotta head to work soon).
The EMails in question were posted on this forum by the GM/Player in question. They were deleted when the thread was deleted (I assume because it contained repeated references to methods of exploiting). Again though.. yes people have accused the GM/Player of exagerating some of his claims about what happened behind the scenes (of course.. no proof was required of THOSE people), but I believe even the "guildie" you quote did not dispute that his guildleaders were GMs in game.
Edit to add:
PS: if you cannot find the thread (though it is there).. simply create a new one on the forums and ask if it is possible for a players to become a GM in game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Serious Concerns" is exactly what I feel about this game after all the mud slinging that has been done about it. All games have thier na sayers for sure but this one seems to have so many that I can't help but think some, if not most, of it is true. This coupled with my late beta experiences with MO means I simply am not going to touch this product with a ten foot pole. I hope SV can pull it together but the rumors are so over whelming about this game I think people are crazy for dropping that much money on it.
Bugs, exploits, bla bla bla, hackers, bla bla scandal bla bla scam bla bla. Serious concerns...no shit Sherlock.
Despite all that shit going on, MO slowely but steadly improves. I like their design decisions ( the only one I don't is probably the whole spawners thingy ) and the whole game system even if huge part of it is still on paper. Why ? Becuase they actually communicate with their community and are clear about their short and long term plans. Something I hope OTHER companies would learn. Yes I look at you Aventurine.
How many MMO developers who actually think and make games outside the present WoW clone do you know ? Most of them are to afraid to take the risk. Publishers ? The big players ? All they think about is what next IP to exploit to squeeze out some profit.
It is better if games like DF or MO survive and grow ( hopefully in population AND content ), just for our own good.
That's your opinion and it's certainly vaild. Mine is opposite (at least regarding MO). We have to STOP lowering the bar and accepting stuff that even the developers acknowledge is broken, buggy and unfinished. I don;t care if it's a sandbox, a themepark or something else. Developers must learn that their plans should include actually shipping a game that is mostly complete at that time... Accepting whatver they shovel out the door with vague promises of fixing it later does nothing but further lower the bar for the next company.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I bought MO in its early stage when hardly any info was out, except a trailer, the design concepts and some combat beta leaks. It was a gamble but I could afford it. I played it max 20 hours in beta and few hours after the "launch", I haven't used more then one day of my free 30 day period and I haven't subbed.
I never said I agree to lower the bar so low, but SV deserves to be noticed just for trying to be different and I hope they will reach soon the level of playability on which I will consider subbing.
Not surprised, considering the game looks like if it's still in early beta. Many people were called trolls around here because they told the truth. This game needs like another year of polishing. Of course there will be a lot of bugs and exploits if the game was released less than half baked.
[Mod Edit]
As I stated in my response to your quote above. You stated that you believe it's better if a game which was knowlingly released in such poor condition can survive "for our own good". I believe we are better off if all games that try to shovel similarly incomplete and buggy products to customers die quick and inglorious deaths. This way the NEXT company down the line realizes that he has to actually be capable of shipping a completed product and that customers won't accept shovelware.
I understand your desire to encourage new companies to take a chance. That's why I said your opinion is valid. It's simply my own opinion that we have been cutting ALL companies too much slack over the years... and this has lead us to our current situation where it is acceptable for companies to ship games in this condition with promises that sometime after release they will actually add the content and fix the bugs...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But if SV had not shipped the game when they did (bugs and unfinished content or not), they would have gone under and the game would never have been released at all. In this case, it is preferable for them to release the game and someday hopefully develop it into a great game than to let it die before it has a chance...
And its not like Star Vault lied to you. They told everyone to begin with that the game would be released in a very unfinished state. Only those who wished to support the product should have bought it under those conditions... yet there are still people like you all over these forums claiming that you were somehow cheated by them. Give me a break...
If fans of sandbox games don't start lending their support to companies like Star Vault who actually try to make a game that breaks the mold, no one will ever succeed at this type of game again. Do you seriously think that any big-name developer will attempt a game like this with such a vocal and whiney community who are seemingly unsatisfied with anything? Fat chance...
If what SV made was actually of good quality, then people would buy it and sub for it. Shoveling out money as "support" is exactly the wrong thing to do. Not everyone is meant to succeed.
Exactly. SV are failing because they are amateurs who don't have a clue what they are doing. You can have a low budget and deliver quality products its been proven many times. MO is a compilation of silly mistakes and bad decisions, starting with such thing as wanting to use the Unreal engine which isn't adapted at all to a seamless MMO. then comes all the shit with regards to having client side characters, client side hitboxes etc.
Had they done a good job of programming and knowing their shit, they could have released an a bit smaller game with everything working great and decent content in it.
I don't want games like that to simply survive, but to improve and catch up with the design vision. I am not interested in MO surviving in the present early beta state.
I agree with the general poor working culture between software development companies, escpecially gaming industry. It is a broad subject and there have been books writen about this topic alone.
If faulty designed and produced car breaks case accidents, millions of cars are recalled to the home company in bid to avoid legal compensation claims. You don't see the same thing happening, when your software crashes and you lose hours, days or months of hard work. The whole software industry lacks of proper legislation to prevent unprofessional behaviour AND create quality standards.
I doubt it will ever happen with game industry as it never happened with any other art: music, film etc. The only regulators on this market are us: customers and critics.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52939-please-sv-get-rid-gms-players.html
Henrik Nystrom Yesterday, 23:04
Administrator
We do not have any more GMs that are playing the game, the ones we have now is not biased, the funny thing is that both sides of the conflict says the exact same thing. We would only be stupid if we helped one side as thats not how to make a mmo grow. We would never help one side as it would only ruin the game development.
He is right, they have no GMs. But counselors, and High Counselors, are players. Again another great fight was ruined by a biased high counselor who temp banned over 75% of one sides forces for, suspected "exploiting" yet, when everyone asked if anyone had exploited no one replied right away. Later we found out that ONE of our members had used a exploit to get into the opposing sides keep. But we also found out that the door was unlocked during the WHOLE battle. Which is something the GM/Counselor did not take into consideration. I myself went into the keep after the door shut when the initial rush went through. I just openend the door normally. As did another member later in the battle. Yet out of 13 people at the fight 10 were banned because of ONE "exploiter". And yet AGAIN in the previous days battles when the oppositon attacked our keep they used the EXACT same exploit, not once, but twice to get in through our palecade gate and the keep door, which both were locked. And the only GM/highcounselor online was the same one that banned people tonight. And in the next battle he banned people for hitting a wall of a rival guild with a axe.
So in the TL;DR version.
One GM/Counselor banned over 14people in 2 seperate cases on ONE side, yet ignored the otherside when they used the EXACT same exploits.
Things that make you go hmm.....
Currently MO is standing on the cusp of my sig.... "So much crap, so little quality."
So much crap, so little quality.
Honestly?
Your source is a person who claims that StarVault is falsifing business records. This is probably the number 1 issue (at least it SHOULD BE) of the whole "scandal" ! The funny part is this isnt the issue that most people are focusing on including you. This persons "NDA" in which they dont seem to care about anyway with this entire disclosure is in fact the reason they dont wish to cite more information. Again please explain reasons how volunteer or "paid" (we still havent decided if they ARE paid or not) volunteers are involved in the financial aspect of a publically traded company enough to be considered thus scapegoat.
Doesent that raise any red flags to you? The most information ive seen of this is a login page with a person named gm_*numbers* .. Sorry that doesent validate such a person as a trustworthy entity for me. I guess im not a truther tho.
I believe perhaps you confused your reply and it was meant for someone else. At no time did I focus on any claim that SV was "falsifying business records". I do not believe I even mentioned this... but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
What I DID focus on was the fact that it is very, VERY bad business to allow someone who is a Guildleader to vollunteer as a GM in a full-loot, FFA, PvP, sandbox, MMORPG currently focused on Guild vs Guild territory control (at least when they are GMs on the same server they are leading a guild on).
As for the trustworthiness of the people involved well that leads to one of two possibilities. The first is that they put untrustworthy people into the GM role (which certainly adds to the suspicion of GM abuse). The second is that they put trustworthy people into the GM role (which adds credence to the claims these people are making about SV).
EIther way.. Guildleader GMs = baaaaad idea.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018