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stormshade on klingon content
raistalin69
Member Posts: 575
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3006328#post3006328
from stormshade:
Here's the problem...
We've told you what is coming. We've even told you when it's coming, and we've shared as much information as we can with you about the future of the Klingon Faction in STO. We've given the Klingon Faction a brand new ship, 8 Klingon Specific Episodes, and have promised to deliver a new episode playable by the Klingons, and the Federation each week.
You've responded with threats, demands, and hostility.
Here's what happens from here:
1) Stormshade show up in the thread and reminds you all again what you have recently received, and what is being worked on for you.
2) You say that isn't enough. You want us to stop all development for the Federation Faction (Hint: this isn't going to happen.) and begin to work exclusively on the Klingon faction. You also want 40 new faction specific episodes, and equal representation when it comes to the C-Store, since all the new ships we've added to the Federation Faction are available there. You also want proof that this is happening right now, video only, as screens could be faked. You want all of this now, or you're going to continue to make a stink on the forums.
3) Stormshade or DStahl show up in the thread and reminds you all again what you have recently received, and what is being worked on for you.
4) Repeat Step 2.
5) No one responds, Repeat Step 2.
6) Repeat Step 5...
Why does this happen?
No one like to constantly be surrounded by negativity. Eventually, even though it is our jobs to listen to what you guys have to say, we're going to not want to look in here and be reminded that we're horrible human beings, and we hate the Klingon Faction. Even though no one here is a horrible human being, and no one here hates the Klingon Faction.
On the other hand...
We could stop the hostility and the negativity. You could engage in a respectful and open dialogue with the Development Team, and we can work together to resolve the issues with the Klingon Empire
so after stating for 8 months that more klingon content was going to be added, cryptic has now said "in a few more months" and goes on to say if you keep complaining we are just going to ignore you.
now thats customer service!
8 episodes and 1 ship for kilinks in 8 months (thats almost half the entire developement time of the game pre-release).. its hard to beleive this guy has the stones to say Stormshade or DStahl show up in the thread and reminds you all again what you have recently received. i guess they dont need 2 factions in sto to test stuff for neverwinter?
stormshade has a point about being respectful, but honestly, after 8 months of essintially being ignored.... how many klinks still care if there accounts get banned?
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Comments
Here's what you forgot to add to the rest of your post.
"We're making sure all new content going forward is playable by both the KDF and the Feds where possible."
While not perfect I think that is a good thing.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I am more adressing what stormshade says in this post, and is not a direct responce or critisism towards you seven.
With all due respect... making sure content is playable for any faction seems.... pretty basic no matter what developer you are. There is tribble, there is internal play testing and there is quality essurance. Should we not expect quality playable content with paying a sub to the game? STO was in development for 2 years and they only release with pvp? Can you honestly believe that they are rolling out the content with only 8 episodes and 1 ship released since launch? I suppose all I can do is sit back, watch what happens and see the course this game takes... and really hope that in a year or so... it might be a game I will want to come back to. Though... I have this irking feeling in the back of my head telling me to not hold my breath.
/shrug
Anyway.... one thing is for sure though. I do not envy stormshade one iota.
Yeah , it seems they are getting pretty touchy . A small group of lifers won't let them off the hook . They've started sporting anti -Cryptic avatars . They are posting threads constantly critical about the lack of Klingon content.
They're especially pissed about Veteran rewards for Klingons . Supposedly Cryptic never considered the Klingon faction of sufficient size and population to warrant doing rewards for. So when they laid out the plan to do this no-one stood up and said we should apply this for Klingons.
Now they've said they'll get to work on the veteran 200 day reward , but it won't be fast. It'll also pull some resources from another project , ( supposedly Gorn clothing or something to that effect ) making that part suffer. The other excuse thrown out was that , they'll do this and pobably no-one will wear it. The part is that they've decided to produce it , but now it won't arrive until about the 300 day veteran reward time, lmao.
This speaks volumes to how they view the faction, more as a nusance and irritant. Sure we'll add ( just not Klingon specific , because you got your stuff ) content , but it has to keep Fed players happy , most importantly. We're making it playable by both factions to keep the bitching down.
after 8 months of saying "we are goingt o fix this, the klingon faction will be fleshed out" making content for both factions and claiming it is fulfilling this promise is an insult (allthough it is beter than nothing).
this is imo equivalant to a friend who owes you 1500$ calling you and telling you he has your money he has owed you for 8 months and is on his way over, and hes sorry its months late .... only to show up with 20$ and say "hey take it or leave it, and ill be by next month with another 20$."
by banning people from the forums that are vocal about this failure to fulfill its promise's, cryptic has essiantaly stopped answering the phone. allthough i dont blame cryptic for doing this... in terms of my story this makes them a deadbeat.
do you take the 20$? .... of course. is it insulting...... incredibly. but you are trapped , the same as the klinks that have lts are.
this is one of the best examples of what people should know about cryptic before deciding wether they should try one of there games. this is the level of respect cryptic shows for its customers and people should know.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
And thus, the reason for never, ever buying a lifetime sub.
Once you do, you have given up your power as the consumer, to continue playing "their" game and paying, or not.
The Cryptic devs are doing their best to ignore the lifers now, because what does it cost them? Not much, a bit in the C-store.
Cryptic already got paid by the lifers, so don't really care what they want/say/complain about anymore.
The reason they can't create content for the Klingons in a reasonable timeframe is because they have already shifted large portions of their development team to the next thrown-together MMO project that will bring them quick profits on initial sales... AKA Neverwinter Nights.
I have long had my doubts about the depth of Cryptic's commitment to their already-running games...
Facepalm:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3006724#post3006724
From StormShade
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creovex
Well thats there choice, but as they wait, we post. And will continue to do so.
Good! In fact, that's GREAT! I want you guys to keep posting, and so does the rest of the team here at Cryptic!
No one is telling you to stop posting. No is saying you need to stop wearing your cute little avatars with our logo burning behind a big red NO sign. No one is telling you to stop complaining, or to stop advocating for your faction. No one is even asking for that.
What we are asking is that you stop raging. You've gotten all of the answers you're going to get for now. There is nothing else to gain at this time, except for forum infractions. Because inevitably, someone will take the rage to far, and end up with a suspension, or a full out ban from the forums. I don't want that to happen, and neither does anyone else.
So take a step back, breathe deep, and tone it down. We know you are upset, we have acknowledged you are upset, and we have told you what we are doing to fix that you are upset. All that is left to do, is to take the time to make that happen. We have to have that time though, all of our plans for the KDF require us to have the time. If you won't give us the time, then you won't see those things come to fruition.
It really is that simple.
Thanks,
Stormshade"
Notice StormShade is quoting a member named Creovex? Creovex is banned. Other than posting about the absolute LACK of Klingon attention which StormShade seems to welcome, I can't find any post that contains an infraction serious enough to warrant a banning. BTW; Creovex's join date was January 2009, man has been around for awhile.
Third rate game made by a second rate developing house whose forums are are managed by the internets equilivent to the Keystone Cops.
I wanted to reply, but the thread has been locked (surprise, surprise.) I'd liked to have pointed out to Stormshade that if they didn't make the game in 18 months, and they had actually developed the Klingon faction before release, then they never would have had this problem in the first place.
keep working your way thru stormshades logic/flowchart xondar... your about to be ignored by the people who charged you for the game. (oh wait, maybe if you have an idea for something they can put in the c-store they might respond)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I thought they had said a while back once they got the fed stuff patched up they were going to stop there and then start doing kdf stuff full time for a while until it was up to the level of the fed content. That was way back though.
On the bright side, there's such a demand for klingong content, maybe they'll put it on the cstore.
The state of the Klingon faction is due to Jack Emmert insisting that they be in before launch, even though they were clearly not ready to be implemented; they should have been the first expansion faction instead. That being said, I have to back Stormshade on this one: After Season 2 launched, they were very clear that any additional missions for the Klingons would only be those types of missions that the Federation players could also do. They have also recently been very clear that any things such as veteran's rewards and other types of content will get worked on, but not for quite a bit.
Should the Klingon faction have been fleshed out to match the Federation's? Of course it should have, that's the way it was advertised until the very last moment. That being said, anyone who focuses on the Klingons in STO needs to realize that their faction is going to be like it is for a very long time. If that's not good enough for them, then they need to stop playing it and find a different game.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
There is absolutely no reason to never buy a lifetime subscription; I have one for LotRO and I have never regretted it, even with the new hybrid model they are getting ready to switch to. The trick is, you need to be smart about your purchase:
Try the game before you buy a lifetime subscription; I don't care if it's an open beta invite from a preorder or buying the game and playing for the 30 day free period, but actually try it first.
Look at the company in question and their history: Have they had previous MMOs with lifetime subs? If so, how well did that work? If there were problems, (like the CO lifetime closed beta access to STO fiasco) that is a good indication to stay away. How is the lifetime offer setup? If the company is only offering the lifetime subscription before the game launches (CO) or the offer reads that way (STO), that is a good indication to avoid it.
Also look at any previous games the company has done: Do their games have a reputation for being shallow and repetitive? If so, check out the new game before making that lifetime commitment. Are their MMO launches generally horrible, with newly released MMOs that have gaping holes and blatantly unfinished sections? Once again, avoid that lifetime subscription.
Finally, how is the game set up and what does your gut tell you? If the game has a weird revenue model (Hellgate: London, APB), you may wish to hold off. Likewise if your gut is telling you this game may not survive, don't risk the money in that liftime subscription; you're rolling the dice on whther you'll get a good return on your investment.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Q: LordOfPit: Are Cryptic writers and content-designers using the UGC tool-set to produce the weekly episodes?
DStahl: The Featured Episodes are created with our full blown mission editing tools as they have many complex custom environments that are not hooked up or feasible in the User Generated Tool yet. However, the daily patrol missions that have also been released in the Defera sector were created with the original Genesis tools (the original version of the UGC tool that was only for STO internal use) and then given a little bit of manual tweaking to ensure they have everything in just the right place. All of the Deferi Patrol missions were created by yours truly, and I’m not much of a content designer. So while we still have a long way to go with UGC tools, it gives a hint to the future where anyone with an idea for a mission can create story based content for the game.
Yeah , this doesn't make me feel any better. Genesis is such a smashing success , I want more of that content. Granted UCG will be less random , but this doesn't bode well.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3006328&postcount=370
They just keep making excuses and promises to keep people around.
HOWEVER... You all have to realize that this is going to take TIME. There is no Klingon Fairy Godmother who can give use some Epic Ruby Mevak we can click together three times and have the Klingon Faction and all her players be happy.
It took us two years to make Star Trek Online as it was at release. It is impossible for us to make the Klingon Faction completely even with the Federation Faction in each and every respect inside of 6 months. No matter how much you demand it. It's going to take time, and it is unfair of you to ask that we stop any and all development for the Federation Faction while we work to fix this.
We're making sure all new content going forward is playable by both the KDF and the Feds where possible.
We're working to add more Klingon Specific content, including ships, as well as new and improved costume options.
We're working on everything that you are asking for. Demanding we stop everything to prove it to you isn't going to make it appear any faster. It's going to make it take longer.
Stormshade
They're finding it harder and harder to qwell the masses. people are pissed off at how little the game actually has to offer and hold the Klingon faction up as an example. Better yet Cryptic just provides them with more and more ammo.
so, anyone want to bet on the ugc system not working properly (or at all) for klingons?
this is totally just a guess, but imagine the screaming if ugc doesnt work for klinks. (wouldnt shock me though, after all do they need to test it for 2 factions to get it to work in neverwinter?)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
That's not so much making excuses as them finally being more open and honest, which in my opinion is a good thing; we've had precious little of that before now from Cryptic. If the players are finally getting ticked off, then that is their own fault: It has been abundantly clear how this game was going to be since Season 1; the players should have figured that out by now. That doesn't mean Cryptic shouldn't be taken to task on the state of things, but the players need to be realistic in their expectations as well.
Again I have to side with Stormshade; expecting Cryptic to suddenly get speedy in generating content is silly, considering how long it takes them to implement anything. In a similar fashion expecting Cryptic to stop work on the Federation, and only work on the Klingons, is equally as silly; how much proof do the players need that the Klingon faction unfortunately plays second fiddle to the Federation, before they accept that?
Once again, taking Cryptic to task for the state of the Klingons is fine, but the players need to be reasonable in their expectations. A good start would be for them to stop treating every major update as some kind of miracle cure for the game's woes. Next up would be for those focused on the Klingons to realize that the Klingons will be as is for quite a while yet (excepting the faction shared missions, of course).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I guess that will really depend on if Cryptic still believes that the Klingon faction should have purely combat focused missions and need to tweak the UCG for them, like they stated before launch in regards to Genesis content for the Klingons.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
So when you bought your LOTRO Lifetime sub on point number 3. what did you consider Turbine when they shut down AC2 in 2005? People were quite upset myself included a little because around six months prior we bought a paid expansion to the game and then it gets shut down.
Also the AC2 launch was HORRIBLE as were the first few months.
Then there is DDO which I loved but got horrible reviews, rubber-banding, some considered unfinished.
With that all against Turbine for number 3. Why did you still buy a LOTRO lifetime?
I have a lifetime sub to LOTRO as well, I played AC, AC2, and DDO prior and loved all three of their games despite the problems. They make fun games. I'm just curious on your thoughts.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Yes, I did take that into account. In fact, I cancelled my pre-order (handy things to get), and waited several months before actually getting the game. Even then, it still took me awhile before I purchased the pre-order; I purchased my pre-order only a couple years ago (about two years past, in December). The only regret I have is not waiting for one of their frequent reduced price offers when I did purchase one, but I still don't regret purchasing LotRO's lifetime and I feel that I have recieved an ample return on my investment.
If one of those issues I listed are enough to turn you away from a lifetime subscription, then by all do not buy one. However, I find that it's generally best to factor all of those points together. AC was good, AC2 made me a bit hesitant, but DDO redeemed Turbine in my opinion. The only problems I had with DDO were that it was a setting I did not care for (never could stand the Eberron setting) and that there was no real exploration; I dislike being stuck in one city. Given that, I was more willing to see what Turbine had done with LotRO; once I started playing, I did so for several months.
Then I quit for several months and moved on to some other games; it was a final test for me in regards to LotRO. Sure enough, LotRO drew me back in, and I purchased the lifetime subscription. I'm not suggesting that anyone else follow those steps, that's just what worked for me; everyone needs to figure out how to make their own decision on the matter.
STO was the first game where I was actually planning on purchasing the lifetime subscription right at the start. If the game had even remotely resembled what Cryptic had been promising up until launch, I would have. However I got into closed beta right at the start, and saw what they were really launching. At first I had hopes that they just had not released things yet, but as open beta and launch quickly approached, I realized that what we saw was pretty much it. It didn't help matters that Cryptic's infamous repetitveness showed itself in the first ten levels, or that I was intending to focus on klingon play and saw how slapped together that faction was.
That is why I suggest that people follow those points I outlined and if their gut says "No" at any point, then trust it. I am also a very strong advocate of getting pre-orders (just put the minimum down, do not pre-pay!) from places that allow you to cancel a pre-order (a local Gamestop store for me), so that people can see what the game is actually like during open beta. Despite what some may try to claim, the game you play at the end of open beta is pretty much the game you will be playing at launch (launch day, game-changing patches excluded of course).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Yeah , took a look at CO, played about three months . I got a really good feel for what Cryptic was about then ( It had enough of CoX , maybe to much and that made me uncomfortable ). I did think it was possible that STO would be different , actually prayed. Got into the Closed Beta two weeks after it started. Posted thoughts , suggestions etc.. Played open beta , decided this game was too shallow for a life membership , influenced a lot of clanmates.
STO was a thinly veiled version of CO . 5 player groups and not much else to do. The pvp mechanics were the same for the most part , and it really didn't offer much else. Saved a lot of money and anguish . Huge ST fan that I am , I'm not blind to a poor game . Will it get better probably , will anyone care doubtful. That train left the station , Cryptic was warned in numerous threads, they'd only get one chance. This market is too different then it was when SWG was released or WoW or even CoH. People aren't forgiving and frankly they have a great many more options for their cash . While people will point to AoC, think what it could have been had they released it properly completed ?
People may point to AoC, and i will agree that the new expansions seems to be very good, but how much has it really turned things around for them? The last time I was in the game, my former guild was totally dead; out of the 50 or so people in the guild, only three were still playing (in other guilds). It's had like two server mergers now, and I would guess its numbers are similar to STO's number or CO's numbers. People have too many options these days, and don't have much patience for giving second chances.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
People always forget the European servers for AoC. Europe has about twice the number of servers as North America, the game is just way more popular over the pond. I'd say AoC is possibly suffering in NA (and personal anecdotes about guilds are never a real indicator of numbers. I've come back to WoW to see my guild decimated before) but the game seems to be doing well in Europe.
I wasn't using my guild as an indication that AoC is hurting, but was merely stating why I do not play it anymore despite what they have done. I rather wish that AoC didn't have server segregation; I'd love to go back to an European server that had a healthy population. Frankly I will agree wholeheartedly with anyone who states that AoC is a much better game now. However, for me, watching people leave the games in droves and then coming back only to find a few familiar names out of the couple of hundered I did know is quite depressing. It's similar to Vanguard: I love that MMO, but the generally empty feeling of the game now makes it unpleasant.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Does AoC separate it's player base on the basis of geography ? EU players mainly on EU servers and NA on theirs ? If and EU player wants to play with NA players does he have to transfer accounts? If this it the case this could be a contributing factor IMO ?
Chin up Din , if and it's a possiblity , if Vanguard goes F2P , I'd go back . I have 4 or 5 50's , I'd need to level and get back into the groove . I throughly enjoyed my time there. Just lost interest when they started messing with the classes , especially my Ranger . Loved my druid though . Dueling was a lot of fun with those two toon, loved taking on Psy's and Warriors .
Due to the more mature themes in AoC, they had to do server segregation; here in the U.S. they recieved an ok to show breasts (along with a mature rating for the game) and graphic violence (decapitations, etc.), but they were barred from showing full nudity. In Germany, it's ok to show full nudity, but they had to drastically tone down the violence and gore. As far as N.A. players being able to play on European servers or vice versa, the only way that I know of it possibly working is to get your hands on one of the European copies; even then, I'm not entirely sure that would work.
As for Vanguard, my absolute favorite class was the Bard (although I liked all of the classes really); Vanguard was the first and only time I ever really played a bard character. I absolutely love how they have the bardic music system set up there, so that you can compose your songs to have the effects you wish. That's one of the features of Vanguard that I wish other fantasy based MMOs would copy over.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan