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Why Square wants to keep console type controls?

khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 486
in Final Fantasy XIV

Hmm, Final Fantasy is a series that started way back on the NES. It was a single player RPG back then and they continued to make this series on consoles Super nintendo, Playstation, Playstation 2 and so on.

 

I believe they want their very loyal fanbase to feel as though they are playing the same series as always and to remember those old days and how fun the games were.

 

They want us to feel as though we are playing final fantasy, but in an online world. This control setup is one of the staples f the series and I guess they will not change that eventhough they are now making games for PC as well as console.

 

DO NOT LOOK AT THIS AS A BAD THING!!

Learn to adapt and that all games are not made the same.

GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

Comments

  • shamallshamall Member CommonPosts: 516

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230

    I could probably adapt to the keyboard and would even buy a controller, but first they need to fix server lag.

  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

     i'm not sure what the issue is

    the game is not a FPS and there is no PVP that i know of - what's the beef?

    played for a little bit for the first time tonight (noticed no lag) with keyboard and mouse - couldn't remap keyboard to use arrow keys for movement, though there seems to be an option i couldn't get it to work, but i got use to using the mouse for camera and number pad for movement (left handed so don't use wasd)

    will try with controller tomorrow

    image

  • ShiymmasShiymmas Member UncommonPosts: 587

    Originally posted by khameleon

    DO NOT LOOK AT THIS AS A BAD THING!!

    Learn to adapt and that all games are not made the same.

    Though I have no experience to speak of with FFXIV yet, I did play FFXI for quite some time, and quickly adjusted and rather enjoyed the setup for the time I played, though I always used the keyboard and no controller.

     

    That said, beyond FFXI, I've never experienced another MMO that shunned the use of a mouse.  As such - and being a PC gamer for over a decade - mouse and keyboard is second nature to me, and while I can appreciate what you're trying to say here, what plenty don't appreciate is that we, and not the game, are supposed to adapt.  For those who wish to revel in all the nostalgia and good old happy feelings of FF's of the past, they can!  I will, however, join the camp that does long for them to adapt the game to be more friendly to the (not even modern) style of mouse and keyboard.  I'm not looking to go hunt down another peripheral for my PC - a controller - so my next best option is to go keyboard-only and that's a tough transition for anyone.  Even if I didn't mind going to a controller as much, in the long-term it's definitely not as fast/effecient as a keyboard unless you get some seriously souped-up device, and I'm all for playing to the best of my ability when I'm gaming - PVP or not.

     

    At any rate, the idea that they can't properly code their game to support mouse/keyboard is a bit silly.  The real question is why they won't develop better options.  In the meantime, I'll withhold my judgement of XIV until I can get my client squared away.  Oh, and I'm sure I'll end up pushing my mouse completely out of the way as I did 7 years ago when first starting XI.

    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
    George Bernard Shaw


    “What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”
    Oscar Wilde

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,402

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • testmylucktestmyluck Member Posts: 91

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    There are numerous design limitations already in place because of its placement on a console, and obvious ones built into the UI to accomodate the lack of buttons and acuity (no mouse) on the control pad. Keyboard/mouse is considerably superior in regards to potential for accurate control.  So if you want to be technical about it, no, its not ignorant at all, and the fact that they expect to dump another unoptomised and hastily ported client on the PC users AGAIN is flat out insulting.

  • shamallshamall Member CommonPosts: 516

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    I was in closed beta

    The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave

  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,519

    Just maybe it could be the engine that is at fault,  maybe it's just not as flexable as most engines.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314

    While I find mouse+keyboard easier to use in most other games, this game is different. In this game, mouse+keyboard just feels unnatural and awkward. Once you pick up a controller, and set up your buttons, it feels so natural, and intuitive. I dunno why that is, it just is.

  • YasouYasou Member Posts: 86

    I am left-handed so WASD isn't an option for me. For every game I remap all keys, therefore I just hope it is an option also in FFXIV (we'll see in OB) even if their primary focus is for the original FF player base to feel at home out of nostalgia.

    Any game should be flexible with regards to controls. If they do not build in this flexibility they are missing a critical point (I work in software development and controls have always been a priority as this may well drive off users out of frustration if not well-implemented).

  • jp4lyfejp4lyfe Member UncommonPosts: 165

    Originally posted by Yasou

    I am left-handed so WASD isn't an option for me. For every game I remap all keys, therefore I just hope it is an option also in FFXIV (we'll see in OB) even if their primary focus is for the original FF player base to feel at home out of nostalgia.

    Any game should be flexible with regards to controls. If they do not build in this flexibility they are missing a critical point (I work in software development and controls have always been a priority as this may well drive off users out of frustration if not well-implemented).

    lil bit off topic but i don't know how you do that! I'm left handed as well but i do the wasd thing and have always used the mouse in my right hand even though i'm left handed.

    Maybe im outta th norm for lefties? I just cant imagine using my left hand on the mouse. You use I J K L for movement then?

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314

    Originally posted by jp4lyfe

    Originally posted by Yasou

    I am left-handed so WASD isn't an option for me. For every game I remap all keys, therefore I just hope it is an option also in FFXIV (we'll see in OB) even if their primary focus is for the original FF player base to feel at home out of nostalgia.

    Any game should be flexible with regards to controls. If they do not build in this flexibility they are missing a critical point (I work in software development and controls have always been a priority as this may well drive off users out of frustration if not well-implemented).

    lil bit off topic but i don't know how you do that! I'm left handed as well but i do the wasd thing and have always used the mouse in my right hand even though i'm left handed.

    Maybe im outta th norm for lefties? I just cant imagine using my left hand on the mouse. You use I J K L for movement then?

    I see nothing strange in that. It's usually whatever you get used to.

  • YasouYasou Member Posts: 86

    I use the mouse with my left hand (never managed to use it with my right hand as I am extremely clumsy ;) I use the numeric pad (arrows or numbers) for movement and map the keyboard keys for any other menu.

    I know I'll probably end up forcing myself to use it with the right hand though...

  • seabeastseabeast Member Posts: 748

    Originally posted by jp4lyfe

    Originally posted by Yasou

    I am left-handed so WASD isn't an option for me. For every game I remap all keys, therefore I just hope it is an option also in FFXIV (we'll see in OB) even if their primary focus is for the original FF player base to feel at home out of nostalgia.

    Any game should be flexible with regards to controls. If they do not build in this flexibility they are missing a critical point (I work in software development and controls have always been a priority as this may well drive off users out of frustration if not well-implemented).

    lil bit off topic but i don't know how you do that! I'm left handed as well but i do the wasd thing and have always used the mouse in my right hand even though i'm left handed.

    Maybe im outta th norm for lefties? I just cant imagine using my left hand on the mouse. You use I J K L for movement then?

     Nothing out of the norm for lefties here, most of us people have learned the gaming world with our left hand controls. I am the same way however, I do not play with controlers...if I did I would it would be much cheaper to go with xbox or ps3 than upgrading my damned PC each 6 months for the newest...attempt at games.

  • YasouYasou Member Posts: 86

    Well to my surprise I was totally able to move in-game with the numpad and control the camera with the mouse, which is just fine. The only issue so far is mouse lag (which has been discussed already in other threads => not sure though how they will solve this).

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706

    I like using a controller whenever possible... it's much more comfortable... and less chance of getting carpel tunnel.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 Member UncommonPosts: 1,155

    What I dont understand is why one cant choose other keyboard and mouse settings, and also why I cant customize all the controls to my own likeing.

  • SchaapjeSchaapje Member UncommonPosts: 35

    Originally posted by shamall

    BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    No he's not. I've tried to play FF14 with my mouse and keyboard and it suck badly. This was not a case of 'getting used to'. It just plain sucks.

    I plugged in my controller, configured it and I'm not going back to keyboard/mouse in FF14. If you haven't tried a controller yet, you should try it, and you'll love it.

  • yaminsuxyaminsux Member UncommonPosts: 973

    Originally posted by testmyluck

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    There are numerous design limitations already in place because of its placement on a console, and obvious ones built into the UI to accomodate the lack of buttons and acuity (no mouse) on the control pad. Keyboard/mouse is considerably superior in regards to potential for accurate control.  So if you want to be technical about it, no, its not ignorant at all, and the fact that they expect to dump another unoptomised and hastily ported client on the PC users AGAIN is flat out insulting.

    While this statement is true, it is irrelevent to the game as having an accurate control is a non-issue (some guy already pointed it out, non-fps/non-pvp enviroment). If you gripe about how the software mouse sucked/laggy...i'm there with you. I'll get a controller and see how it'll go (need a 2nd controller for my xbox anyway)

  • bronzeroninbronzeronin Member Posts: 89

    Yasou I an not left handed but use http://www.cybersnipa.com/us/gaming-keyboards/gamepad.php  

    my fang from Ideazon http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823161023 finally gave up the ghost and they are not making them since Steel Series took over, wish they would like the layout of the fang a little better.  Just something to check out.  Here are links to some other ones.

     http://www.wolfkingusa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=7

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826169019

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126050

     

    But if the game doesn't have a way to either re map or customize the keys these might not work for you.  

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152

    Originally posted by patrikd23

    What I dont understand is why one cant choose other keyboard and mouse settings, and also why I cant customize all the controls to my own likeing.

    This is something they are working on.  Just a patch or two ago they got the keyboard and mouse controls added to the ingame options. Next on the list is allowing people to customize them.  It just takes some time to get it up and working. I imagine they will have it fixed up before release since they seem to be pumping out a patch a day in the open beta.

  • gkb3469gkb3469 Member UncommonPosts: 148

    Originally posted by yaminsux

    Originally posted by testmyluck

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    There are numerous design limitations already in place because of its placement on a console, and obvious ones built into the UI to accomodate the lack of buttons and acuity (no mouse) on the control pad. Keyboard/mouse is considerably superior in regards to potential for accurate control.  So if you want to be technical about it, no, its not ignorant at all, and the fact that they expect to dump another unoptomised and hastily ported client on the PC users AGAIN is flat out insulting.

    While this statement is true, it is irrelevent to the game as having an accurate control is a non-issue (some guy already pointed it out, non-fps/non-pvp enviroment). If you gripe about how the software mouse sucked/laggy...i'm there with you. I'll get a controller and see how it'll go (need a 2nd controller for my xbox anyway)

     quick name a successful rpg where the camera doesnt follow the player.

  • shadout00shadout00 Member Posts: 253

    Originally posted by shamall

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by shamall

    I did adapt, I went from playing with controllers on consoles as a kid to keyboard and mouse on my computer as an adult. I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reason as to why Square is using its current UI set up. BUT, I refuse to play an mmo with a controller on my computer where keyboard and mouse is far superior.

    You are not asking us to adapt, you are asking us to regress.

    So you are saying you wont even try it, a game built around a controller is automatically inferior... and that isnt an completely ignorant statement?

    I was in closed beta

    And......?

    I will admit I was completely turned off by the controller style build of the game and it will take me further convincing to buy FF14, but the argument that a controller is making us regress is a highly ignorant statement. A keyboard mouse combo is only good for games built around a keyboard mouse. This game was clearly made to support cooperative gameplay from the PS3.

    I think you just opened a page in the console vs pc wars, the controller vs keyboard/mouse.

  • Starlight14Starlight14 Member Posts: 8

    Personally, I've never had to use a controller for a PC game before. Usually I can make the keyboard and/or mouse work well enough to make buying a controller not worth it. I also don't have a PS3 or Xbox 360 controller to use as a workaround. If I have to go out and get a controller for the game, that means this game now costs an additional $20-$65+ to play, depending on the controller. So... $70-$115+ to buy, plus subscription fees? There's not even a ghost of a chance.

    I've heard tales of people making the game work well enough using just a keyboard, but a quick look through the possible keyboard commands doesn't instill me with a lot of hope. For example, there didn't seem to be any smart targeting binds, like "target closest monster", so it seemed like the keyboard only controls would have been significantly worse than the keyboard+mouse controls, which would be borderline perfect if only they'd make a hardware mouse. Seriously, that's the only thing stopping the controls from being fine, a hardware mouse.

    If getting the keyboard and mouse working correctly isn't a priority, perhaps they should stick to consoles. Or... they could create a FFXIV + controller bundle for cheaper than the price of buying them separately. I've seen a few games do that when a non-standard control method is preferred. The bundle would probably eat into SE's profits too much for them to really consider.

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