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Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online: Tim Campbell Interview

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Comments

  • IkonicIkonic Member UncommonPosts: 310

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

  • farginwarfarginwar Member Posts: 134

    Originally posted by Ikonic

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

    Logic? Common sense? A forum blogger craves not these things.

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  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751

    Originally posted by Frostbite05

    more than 2 factions only works in DAOC.

    What?

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    Originally posted by Frostbite05

    more than 2 factions only works in DAOC.

    I think you will get disagreement from almost everyone on that statement.  Name one two faction pvp game that has been successful?  I can't think of any.    It got so bad in Aion, that they had to disallow creation of  new characters for one faction on some servers.  That pretty much explains why two faction pvp just does not work.

    DAoC on the other hand the pvp was successful mainly because of 3 factions.  There is always a dominate faction, but with two other factions competing against it, there is balance achieved somewhat.  Does not have to be 3 factions, could be 4 or more.  Of course that would make implementation hard for the developers, so three is a pretty good rule.

  • RomseRomse Member Posts: 198

    Originally posted by Ikonic

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

    It's probably best to wait til the game is done to underline major design flaws... oh wait no it's not.

    The guy does an interview and is asked about the 2 factions... he acknoledges the negative reactions they've recieved and does nothing to correct the basic message that it's a 2 faction game. We know what we need to know.

  • IkonicIkonic Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by Romse

    Originally posted by Ikonic

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

    It probably best to wait til the game is done to underline design flaws... oh wait no it's not.

    The guy does an interview and is asked about the 2 factions... he acknoledges the negative reactions they've recieved and does nothing to correct the basic message that it's a 2 faction game. We know what we need to know.

    No, you do not have to wait for it to be released, but at least wait until the PvP is better explained.

  • ShamorauShamorau Member UncommonPosts: 181

    there should be more than 2 factions. anything else is not sticking to the lore of the ip. full stop. if you think that the xenophobic imperium of man is going to work with the eldar then this is sadly mistaken. there are many cases of the 2 fightinng against chaos, but never togeather. change this at least to 3 way with orcs as the third. cause everyone knows with the ip that orcs will fight anyone as long as the fight is good.

  • Deathwing980Deathwing980 Member UncommonPosts: 80

    Have faith brothers, they may just be putting two factions down for the time being... remember the DOW series there were only few races at the time, they added more as expansions came out and more backstory and gameplay functions...

    They will probably do the same here and build the story where the imperium of man splits from corruption and factions will break into subfactions or even just no faction just race...

  • GyrusGyrus Member UncommonPosts: 2,413

    Originally posted by Ikonic

    Originally posted by Romse


    Originally posted by Ikonic

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

    It probably best to wait til the game is done to underline design flaws... oh wait no it's not.

    The guy does an interview and is asked about the 2 factions... he acknoledges the negative reactions they've recieved and does nothing to correct the basic message that it's a 2 faction game. We know what we need to know.

    No, you do not have to wait for it to be released, but at least wait until the PvP is better explained.

    Yeah, okay. 

    Like in WAR - about two months out from release - when Mark Jacobs said that he was confident that the PvP would balance itself out despite the fact the developers had no mechanism in place (and no backup plan) if it didn't?

    Because, I mean, in Beta it worked fine... you know when people didn't really care which side they were on and were prepared to play the less cool stuff because, you know, it was free and everyone was playing nice?

     

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • ZakaneZakane Member UncommonPosts: 71
    Is this what everyone does anymore, just complain before the game can even enter alpha and beta stage? You guys know nothing more then the very very very little of what they have decided to share with us.

    Just relax and let them work, you might be surprise our you might not. Either way just relax...
  • zinkerzzinkerz Member UncommonPosts: 174

    Originally posted by Romse



    I played WAR from the start til about a month ago. WAR is an awesome game in terms of PvP... the RvR and Scenarios are really good content, unfortunatly it had a few problems

    First, the devs took too long to fix many of the bugs, took too long to correct class imblances and in some cases were WAY to heavy handed in the nerfs to more powerful classes.

    Second, they overhyped and were not ready for launch. Many things were lacking like PvE experience and Public Quests and the Auction House and the Crafting... seriously this is a PvP game...  so it should not matter that much... but they overhyped themselves so much they passed as a "generalist" MMO that does it all awesome... they brought in PvErs and Socialisers who were interested in the one thing WAR did well... the PvP.

    Third... and that's the important one... they put aside the 3 faction model from DAoC thinking things would work out fine and it didn't... server balance was almost impossible to achieve. Populations would be completly dominated only to eventually make a comeback but would quickly evolve into dominating the other side again... you'd end up with about only 2-3 weeks with both sides at even forces. They eventually worked on way to establish balance in otherways with artificial "underdog" system but it was too late, months of domination had driven too many people away to Aion and Darkfall.

    Now... while "Order vs Destruction" worked ok lore wise for WAR... it was not ideal in terms of game mechanics... artificial balancing is just not the same as 3 factions.

    SO WHY THE FRAK WOULD YOU PUSH A 2 FACTION SYSTEM THAT MAKES NO SENSE IN TERMS OF LORE OR GAME MECHANIC INTO A W40K MMO???????

    Of course... in all this... I'm assuming that this W40K MMO is basically an RvR type game I don't see how you could make an MMO with that IP without being heavy on the PvP... I was taking that for granted... Only now am I realising I could be wrong... cause Vigil, you seem to be making illogical choices. The fact that this game could be anything else than full blown PvP / RvR had not even dawned on me... *shrugs*

    I was hoping this thing on your site was a misunderstanding or a bad joke.

    Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction, in a war that will unlock ancient secrets, reveal dark purposes, and determine the fate of the Sargos Sector. For in this dark millennium, there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter.

    I've lived through it in WAR and it's a game I still love, but I'm done with that and won't do it again except for SWTOR cause it makes sense there and its a true RPG in a setting where all that works. So you lost me right there.... that was the one thing that would have pulled me away from SWTOR to you... something most IPs do not naturally lend themselves to... multiple factions and awesome RvR.


    • I can play 2 sided PvP in WAR

    • I can play 2 sided PvP in WoW

    • I can play 2 sided PvP in SWTOR

    • I can play 2 sided PvP in CoX

    • I can play 2 sided PvP in DCUO

    • ...

    I don't need or want your game. I don't need to be immersed in a W40K universe so bad that I'd put up with a crappy MMO version of it, there Space Marines coming out in case I ever get the urge.


    I will keep following developments but I have no plans on demo'ing or buying your game.


    Please announce 3 or 5 factions.


     


    Do I sound smug? Full of myself? Maybe, but this is not some kind of threath, I only speak the truth and need to vent... I've lost interest and I am pissed to be losing a potentially good MMO option in an IP I love and cherish.


     


    in closing I would like to say


    F YOU*


     


    *F stands for frak... don't you dare edit this


     

    My words exactly!

  • MojoWillMojoWill Member Posts: 12

    While two factions does seem alittle...less..then what a 40k game should have, I'm not sure everyone should be so quick to judge that it will "destroy the lore" of 40k, it could wind up to work pretty well with the lore, who knows.

  • BrizahdBrizahd Member Posts: 60

     Sounds horrible...

  • BigJohnnyBigJohnny Member Posts: 42

    Originally posted by Gyrus

    Originally posted by Ikonic


    Originally posted by Romse


    Originally posted by Ikonic

    2+ years out and people are already starting to complain.  We do not know what kind of racial grouping mechanics are even hinted at being in the game yet and everyone is slamming unknown decisions. For all we know Vigil could place some sort or soft grouping penalties. Vigil could have negative exp, reduced healing or even friendly fire on classes that are not of your race. Soft penalties like that would lead to race only guilds/groups more then likely and would have people forming 1 race guilds. 

    Still to early to whine about 2 factions...

    It probably best to wait til the game is done to underline design flaws... oh wait no it's not.

    The guy does an interview and is asked about the 2 factions... he acknoledges the negative reactions they've recieved and does nothing to correct the basic message that it's a 2 faction game. We know what we need to know.

    No, you do not have to wait for it to be released, but at least wait until the PvP is better explained.

    Yeah, okay. 

    Like in WAR - about two months out from release - when Mark Jacobs said that he was confident that the PvP would balance itself out despite the fact the developers had no mechanism in place (and no backup plan) if it didn't?

    Because, I mean, in Beta it worked fine... you know when people didn't really care which side they were on and were prepared to play the less cool stuff because, you know, it was free and everyone was playing nice?

     

    I really want to echo this, because I've seen this happen time and time again.

    People go into these games thinking "oh, it's only in beta, things will improve", and are not being critical enough of the game. Then it releases in pretty much the same formula as it was in beta, and everyone is surprised.

    There's this blind optimism that things will be fine, and there will be a miracle patch, or some landmark interview with the devs where they'll explain it all and everything will be alright.

    The reality is, from my experience, that the major points that are revealed even VERY early on, will usually end up in the game at release exactly the same way. They won't get changed during alpha, or beta, or in a miracle patch, ever.

    So if anything, this is the BEST time to be overly critical with this game. Because it's still possible at this point for them to change things and decide to go for a 3-faction system, or a player-driven faction system, or whatever. If it goes into alpha with 2-factions, that's it. It will remain in that fashion until launch, then the game will see a surge of players who will shortly leave, and it will go into maintainance mode where there's no hope of ever seen the major flaw in the design fixed. Or.... they could just do the right thing now, and have a winning game on their hands.

  • ZarestZarest Member Posts: 11

    I basically agree with everyone else who's posted so far.  This game died before it got off the ground. 

     

    I like how he keeps throwing GAMES WORKSHOP in our faces, as if thats supposed to glaze over their poor decisions and make us forget all about the lore breaking travesty that is, this game.  Its clearly going to be a pathetic WoW clone, where you KILL 10 SPACE BEARS, recieve Enchanted Chainsword of the Monkey.  Another thing I hate is the graphics.  In order to portray a dark, gritty future, I would suggest using more dark, gritty looking graphics.  These WoW-Marines just arent going to cut it with the fans. 

     

    The more and more they talk about this game, the worse it sounds.  Too bad they wont listen to the fans on this one.  Just another half-assed game thats gonna fall by the wayside like everything else.  Broken lore, broken gameplay, and the usual.  But hey, theres still that Space Marine 3rd person shooter coming out.  That game looks far more phenomenal than this travesty.  I think ill go with that for my 40k fix. 

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  • crockopoopoocrockopoopoo Member Posts: 119

    Eh, this isn't really surprising.  MMO developers are physically and mentally incapable of making a game that respects an existing IP.  They just can't do it.  The genre they work in is too rigid and too confining, and they either don't have the money or talent required to break the mold (sometimes both).

    The short history of MMOs is littered with titles that bastardize their source material.  The only question is how much bastardization is going to take place.  Is it going to be a decent, but well camouflaged amount (LOTRO), or a giant-turd-in-the-breakfast-cereal-of-every-fan amount (SWG, WAR). 

    The only other question is when all of you folks will wake up and stop buying this shit.   WAR40K is being made because they know that every WAR fanbot will buy it regardless of his forum rants about the lore.

  • RomseRomse Member Posts: 198

    Originally posted by crockopoopoo

    The only other question is when all of you folks will wake up and stop buying this shit.   WAR40K is being made because they know that every WAR fanbot will buy it regardless of his forum rants about the lore.

    Can't do crap about fanbois besides warn them.

    But I question this game even coming out. They invested very little as they re-use the darksider engine and THQ has the long term license for W40K games already... If it's not looking good I think they're gonna change or pull the plug.

    I don't know of any other MMO THQ has... it's not their thing... they might just shy away and push this off to a later date or hand it to a different studio.

  • LoboMauLoboMau Member UncommonPosts: 395

    I was tracking this  for a loooong time, but from what I read recently and saw , all I can say is...another awesome IP going to waste! The cemetery is full of them now! What a waste of money, work and men...

  • cagancagan Member UncommonPosts: 445

    Summary of interview:

     

    -yes we are using the same engine as WOW, thats why it looks like wow, but the main point is we are planning to steal away WOW customers.

    -2 factions cause 3-5 is too much work, its easier to copy paste with 2 factions, also other factions will be NPC (just like space bears)

    -if we push put a POS game its not our fault, we are working closely with GW

  • UnicornicusUnicornicus Member Posts: 235

    Wow, there are a lot of knowitall whiners in the world, more than I anticipated. Cant wait to now see you guys in this game... im looking forward to it.

  • heavyhebrewheavyhebrew Member Posts: 309

    Two factions in WH40K? Hahahahahaha.

    Oh wait, they are serious. In lore, the Imperium working with, say, the Eldar, would be a 1 off kind of situation, usually involving the Inquisition against a demonic manifestation or a Tyranid invasion. And no Space Marine Chapter Master worth the name would entrust his Marines in an alliance with Xenos with a specific ORDER from the Inquisition. (and even then it's still 50/50)

    Just like WAR when us beta testers saw the writing on the wall about 2 faction RvR (and the multitudinoous things like, say, memory leaks) the designers/programmers will ignore us and stick to the developement plan.

    Why? Because it's all about the money. And my personal theory that Games Workshop actively tries to gimp MMO development so it doesn't take away from miniature sales.

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  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,880

    Originally posted by heavyhebrew



    Two factions in WH40K? Hahahahahaha.

    Oh wait, they are serious. In lore, the Imperium working with, say, the Eldar, would be a 1 off kind of situation, usually involving the Inquisition against a demonic manifestation or a Tyranid invasion. And no Space Marine Chapter Master worth the name would entrust his Marines in an alliance with Xenos with a specific ORDER from the Inquisition. (and even then it's still 50/50)

    Just like WAR when us beta testers saw the writing on the wall about 2 faction RvR (and the multitudinoous things like, say, memory leaks) the designers/programmers will ignore us and stick to the developement plan.

    Why? Because it's all about the money. And my personal theory that Games Workshop actively tries to gimp MMO development so it doesn't take away from miniature sales.


     

    in beta no one said a thing about the 2 factions. The 2 faction system wasn't the problem with WAR the memory leaks and overall server stability is what killed it.

  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    Originally posted by Frostbite05



    Originally posted by heavyhebrew



    Two factions in WH40K? Hahahahahaha.

    Oh wait, they are serious. In lore, the Imperium working with, say, the Eldar, would be a 1 off kind of situation, usually involving the Inquisition against a demonic manifestation or a Tyranid invasion. And no Space Marine Chapter Master worth the name would entrust his Marines in an alliance with Xenos with a specific ORDER from the Inquisition. (and even then it's still 50/50)

    Just like WAR when us beta testers saw the writing on the wall about 2 faction RvR (and the multitudinoous things like, say, memory leaks) the designers/programmers will ignore us and stick to the developement plan.

    Why? Because it's all about the money. And my personal theory that Games Workshop actively tries to gimp MMO development so it doesn't take away from miniature sales.


     

    in beta no one said a thing about the 2 factions. The 2 faction system wasn't the problem with WAR the memory leaks and overall server stability is what killed it.


     

    Pretty much. I actually enjoyed WAR to a degree, but what knifed WAR in the spleen going out the gate had very little to do with the 2 factions and/or the races contained therein. The PvP was great for the half hour or so the game would run before the memory leak crippled it, and the PvE was trite and miserable outside of public quests. The public quests were great, except many required a full party to finish, and most people couldn't be bothered to play anything except the PvP which was, to a very real extent, the only truly rewarding element of the game.

     

    The fact that it released missing 4 classes and that any type of endgame barring non-functioning city raids on the two major cities that they managed to put in was mostly limited to T4 ORvR and Scenario work didn't help either.

  • MaelkorMaelkor Member UncommonPosts: 459

    While I dont know anything about the Warhammer IP except through the single player pc games and what my friend has told me over the years of the tabletop stuff(not much at all) I dont see any reason why a two faction system can not work within the overall IP itself. I dont think anyone expects them to recreate the entire WH40K universe from scratch at release in an MMO setting. If they do they are either siimply crazy or dont understand basic economics.

    The only thing they have to do is bring the scale of the playable universe down to the size in which only 2 factions make sense (single world fighting over a simple minor issue in relation to the entire 40K universe). Limit the unit types available such that they make sense inside this storyline then in future expansions etc more factions on different worlds with different unit types could be opened up with their own storylines etc.

    In this way each expansion could be considered its own scenario possibly played as a "seperate" type of game where characters from the old world do not mix with characters of the new world.

    There is a reason why the complexity of games is limited, especially upon release and it usually has to do with money. Everything costs money and there is a limit to how much a company has to work with when creating something new. I would much rather play an extremely well made game with a very narrow focus than a so so game with a very broad focus.

  • mrbizarromrbizarro Member CommonPosts: 15

    In 40K, there is only war. That sums it up. War and then more war. Everyone is warring with everyone else. Period. Doesn't make a very tidy mmo setting, but thats the IP they chose.

    Scale it down to 3 races. Do them right and make them as complete as possible. Add more races later as part of expansions. If they can make the game feel like a real extension of the IP, even if it doesn't include everything, then they will have captured something special and the game will only be stronger for it.

    What GW/Vigil, and some of us are missing, is that they are not the only ones who own the lore. We have been telling this story over and over for 25 years. We voted on which aspects were cool and which weren't with our money (I voted for Squats). Those who wanted to play multiple races bought multiple armies because the lore said they wouldn't mix. You can't negate all that with a gimmick and expect everyone to buy it just because it has the almighy GW stamp of It's Profitable For Us At This Moment.

    Under the Imperium of Man, I bet they have a SM class (tank), an IG (ranged dps), techpriest (healer), some sort of psyker (controller, buffer), and an inquisitor (rogue). Unfortunately that's WAR with guns. It may be fun for a while, but it will always have that forced, artificial feel and the sense that it should have been so much more.

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