This UI works exactly like a windows operating system does except there is no optional function that lets you make a shortcut. If that was was such a bad thing then Microsoft should have a ton of complaints since the day they created windows. The controller is more responsive to how the UI works I agree but in no way does it hamper gameplay when using a mouse. Some of you just want it on a silver platter all the time. A little extra point and click is not going to hurt the brain but sometimes it makes me wonder.
The game being less frustrating is nowhere close to wanting it to be on a "silver platter". Have you ever wondered why 99% of the video games on pc use shortcuts? I'm sure you haven't.
If they are going to complain about an extra click of the mouse then maybe they should not play at all. Heck, maybe they should complain about how they have to actually type to chat. Why can't there be a function in mmos that when you hit the button it actually does all the work for me. Oh wait we have that, it is called WoW. I'm so glad this game does not cater to the masses.
This UI works exactly like a windows operating system does except there is no optional function that lets you make a shortcut. If that was was such a bad thing then Microsoft should have a ton of complaints since the day they created windows. The controller is more responsive to how the UI works I agree but in no way does it hamper gameplay when using a mouse. Some of you just want it on a silver platter all the time. A little extra point and click is not going to hurt the brain but sometimes it makes me wonder.
The game being less frustrating is nowhere close to wanting it to be on a "silver platter". Have you ever wondered why 99% of the video games on pc use shortcuts? I'm sure you haven't.
If they are going to complain about an extra click of the mouse then maybe they should not play at all. Heck, maybe they should complain about how they have to actually type to chat. Why can't there be a function in mmos that when you hit the button it actually does all the work for me. Oh wait we have that, it is called WoW. I'm so glad this game does not cater to the masses.
The fact that you have to push a few more clicks in this game to do some simple things does not make it harder or different than WoW, it just makes it stupid.
Well i had no problems yet with the mouse + keyboard controls, and i've played several hours already.
As to the keyboard, lots of buttons do different things than the normal MMO, but it's not hard to learn, I'm already adapted.
As to the mouse, some say about it being laggy as hell, but i've seen none mouse lag yet. Maybe it's because my mouse speed was always set to max (rts player hehe). It's a little slower than the normal speed, but it's still 100% playable.
However, i think the game should really be more fluid and play better with a console controller, I don't have ways to test it though because last console i bought was the playstation 1 lol (pc gamer here).
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I tried it all. Keyboard only, keyboard+mouse, gamepad... all suck heavily. Game's controls are retarded just for the sake of being retarded... they don't really add anything.
It's just a chat, a shortcut bar, targeting, moving around, combat and talking to NPCs... over 9000 MMOs have done this in the past a lot more ergonomic, simplistic and overall better. I can only assume they are trying to win the Guinness record for the worst game controls ever.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
I tried it all. Keyboard only, keyboard+mouse, gamepad... all suck heavily. Game's controls are retarded just for the sake of being retarded... they don't really add anything.
It's just a chat, a shortcut bar, targeting, moving around, combat and talking to NPCs... over 9000 MMOs have done this in the past a lot more ergonomic, simplistic and overall better. I can only assume they are trying to win the Guinness record for the worst game controls ever.
And they will win, because SE likes to win.
on another note; Sorry to see you go scooby. We will miss your posts here on the ff14 forums but we understand that there isnt anything holding you here anymore.
Bai Bai
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I think its right thread to ask that question, asked same question on another site too.My question is;
Im playing conjurer class and when press "Blizzard" action on my keyboard (target locked btw) it keep saying select target-area effect etc and i need to accept Enter to land Blizzard action on target but when use macro like /ac "Blizzard" <t> casting blizzard without saying anything or press enter to accept
We cant put macros on first hotbar so do i need to use alt or ctrl macros all the time to avoid accept-enter, area effect-select target warnings etc? If i play with ctrl and alt to use spell action macros, whats first hotbar for?
*Thinking to buy controller at release, i just cant play this game with keyboard+mouse combination.
the first time you kick back in a recliner playing on a 47" HDTV with a wireless keyboard + controller combo you will realize why people enjoy it so much. It is much more enjoyable way to play a video game rather then hunched over a keyboard and mouse..
Well after trying the game for a day and a half I have come to the conclusion that this game is not created for use with mouse or keyboard. The reason for this is the horrible menu system. It is obvious that this is a console game. I will try to explain:
....
Now for me who have been playing games like since I was a teenager (Im 37 now) this is totally awkward. I am so used to click on things that this day and a half have been a terrible experience. For me this menu system is in fact game breaking. It is so bad for me that I will not buy the game, if there haven't been some adjustments to the system.
Now this is only my personal feelings. I can guarantee that probably some of you love the system, but for me who have been playing with mouse and shortcut keys its a no go.
.....
If it wasn't for your title and first paragraph I wouldn't have commented on your post since otherwise you've done a pretty good job of making it clear you are offering your personal opinion. But since you made some pretty definitive declarations with your opening I feel the need to make it clear that I'm another that vehemently disagrees with you.
I have never played an FF game before. But I am quite happy playing with only the mouse and keyboard in FFXIV and have no intention of adding a controller because it isn't necessary, imo. And again, this game is not made just for consoles, it is made for PCs and consoles. It has its own system of controls and I think a lot of people who are used to clicking on thingswill not enjoy this because they are just not willing to spend the time learning a new system. And many of us like the fact that people who are not serious enough about the game to bother learning and getting proficient at new controls will move on.
This is not a cookie cutter MMO. It is, imo, designed for people who can think of a game from a new perspective and not be limited to playing a game that functions just like every other MMO out there. I personally would be very upset if SE changed the controls to suit the people who want to effortlessly jump between FFXIV and the countless other MMOs out there. From what I've seen of the game philosophy of FFXIV if someone needs to not be able to tell they aren't playing WoW when they are at the controls they probably won't be happy playing FFXIV.
Well after trying the game for a day and a half I have come to the conclusion that this game is not created for use with mouse or keyboard. The reason for this is the horrible menu system. It is obvious that this is a console game. I will try to explain:
....
Now for me who have been playing games like since I was a teenager (Im 37 now) this is totally awkward. I am so used to click on things that this day and a half have been a terrible experience. For me this menu system is in fact game breaking. It is so bad for me that I will not buy the game, if there haven't been some adjustments to the system.
Now this is only my personal feelings. I can guarantee that probably some of you love the system, but for me who have been playing with mouse and shortcut keys its a no go.
.....
If it wasn't for your title and first paragraph I wouldn't have commented on your post since otherwise you've done a pretty good job of making it clear you are offering your personal opinion. But since you made some pretty definitive declarations with your opening I feel the need to make it clear that I'm another that vehemently disagrees with you.
I have never played an FF game before. But I am quite happy playing with only the mouse and keyboard in FFXIV and have no intention of adding a controller because it isn't necessary, imo. And again, this game is not made just for consoles, it is made for PCs and consoles. It has its own system of controls and I think a lot of people who are used to clicking on thingswill not enjoy this because they are just not willing to spend the time learning a new system. And many of us like the fact that people who are not serious enough about the game to bother learning and getting proficient at new controls will move on.
This is not a cookie cutter MMO. It is, imo, designed for people who can think of a game from a new perspective and not be limited to playing a game that functions just like every other MMO out there. I personally would be very upset if SE changed the controls to suit the people who want to effortlessly jump between FFXIV and the countless other MMOs out there. From what I've seen of the game philosophy of FFXIV if someone needs to not be able to tell they aren't playing WoW when they are at the controls they probably won't be happy playing FFXIV.
Yes exactly.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
Like you said I'm sure there are plenty that like this system (FFIX players are already used to it a bit), but there are also plenty that feel the same way you do. Including myself. You will also get some replies seconds from now stating "You suck because you can't figure out how to play a game that doesn't have controls like 99% of the other PC games out there... ha ha!" People will also suggest trying to use a controller. I haven't tried yet, and will do so shortly. But I don't WANT to be forced to use a controller. I want the option of using a mouse and keyboard like I'm used to.
It's a cumbersome, inefficient, awkward, and user unfriendly interface. So many things could be changed to make it smoother, more natural and easier to use. Not just to "make it like everything else". There are plenty of games that have interfaces unlike everything else. But there's a difference between being different from everything else, and being different AND horribly designed.
This is opinion obviously, but there are enough people complaining about this that it's hard to believe this will some day be talked about in gaming magazines as having "...the best, most innovative, and easy to use interface ever designed!!!"
in conclusion you QQ
i think you are wow player that wanna all games be equal to wow
anyway your could buy a xbox360 controller, this control is perfect for another games too
or ayou playing weird keyboard fightin games like street fighter????
hehehe, that was awesome. I can only assume sephiroth112 is trying to be funny.
When developing software one of the highest priority items is to make the interface as intuitive, quick, and as easy to use as possible. This isn't about people complaining about having to make 6 actions to do something that would only take 1 action in just about any other game. This is about questioning what was SE actually thinking when they designed this UI?
According to the people saying the interface is an improvement on all the other games out there, this is how the conversation at Square Enix must have gone:
SE Employee #1: Ok guys, we're making a new game. Employee #2, need you to make a beautiful world.
Employee #2: Roger.
Employee #1: #3, I need you to come up with a great storyline that makes the player feel like they're a part of the world.
#3: No problem, boss.
#1: Ok, #4, to tie it all together I want you to come up with an interface that doesn't detract from gameplay, is incredibly intuitive, is amazingly simple to learn yet offers plenty of options and features that a power user can make use of, and looks great.
#4: Well, actually boss, I was thinking of taking a few steps back. You know how the rest of the software world tries to make UIs easy to use? You know, like to open the inventory system you can either click a backpack icon, hit the "I" key, or assign any other key or a controller's button to open it?
#1: Yeah! That sounds aweso....
#4: Yeah I'm throwing that out the window. I think it would be so much cooler and unique by making the user click a button, then click another button and maybe another button or two after that. And don't let them adjust that to make it any easier or quicker. Because that would just "dumb" down the system.
#1: But...
#4: And then in every other game how you can right click to equip an item, or drag it to your character doll, or set it into a macro to switch easily?
#1: Yeah, that's a goo...
#4: That's just too dumb. I thought it would be great to add another step. That makes it unique. Only smart people know how to click two or three times instead of once to accomplish something. Only dumb people like to only use one step instead of a bunch of steps.
#1: Hang on, how's that better tha...
#4: Another awesome idea I had was that instead of giving the user a central, powerful, easy to use interface to make video changes on the fly, we'll give them a few controls in the game, but then we'll create a second application outside of the game to make all the other adjustments.
#1: Now hold on he...
#4: You see, having all the options in one handy location within the game is only for stupid people. Really hardcore and brilliant gamers think that is for WoW carebears and prefer running second applications before running the game. You know, because two is always better than one.
#1: You're a loon you know th...
#4: And just to keep things uniform in nature I'm going to use all my awesome ideas for every other part of the interface. Like how every other game lets you hit only one button to open the skill screen, or the stats screen, or anything else... well that's only for morons. Only morons, idiots, WoW players, and stupid people think that using one button instead between two and five steps to do something is intuitive. They don't recognize that by making them take a bunch of extra steps we're making a unique and creative interface! Only boring, "dumbed down", stupid interfaces use one step instead of two to five steps. This interface will be unique!
#1: *facepalm*
Seriously, people... How in the world can you defend the idea that adding extra steps and taking away customizability is actually making the game better? Using one button to do things instead of two to five buttons/clicks is "dumbing" it down? Seriously? I can't even fathom how someone can really believe that's true and support it.
Creating extra steps and making an interface more cumbersome isn't making the game unique, or different (not in a good way anyhow). It's making it into a game with a bad interface. There are plenty of games out there with non-standard interfaces, with interfaces unlike anything else. But they also make sure they're easy to use and make things as easy for the user as possible. Ever play The Chronicles of Spellborn? The combat system in that was completely different and very unique. It was also a fun way to do things. It added to the game. Unique, but not cumbersome. Different, but not something that detracts from gameplay.
Making things take longer isn't progress. I don't care if it's only one click added. The question you have to ask is WHY did they decide to go from only one button press/click to two to five? What does the game possibly gain from doing that?
When you make changes or additions to a system the first thing a developer needs to do is ask "How does this change or addition make this system better? What does it add to the experience?"
You can't honestly tell me that by adding extra meaningless steps actually improves the interface. You can't tell me that not letting the user assign a ton of different actions or system functions to any key/button they want in an intuitive way improves the interface.
I'm not saying the game is bad. I'm actually starting to like it some. The game, not the interface. I've grown used to the interface. I know how to use it. I know how to do everything I need to. But I don't like it. Not once have I said to myself, "Wow, I wish other games would do it this way." Not once have I said, "Holy crap, doing it this way is so much faster and easier than any other game I've played!"
All I know is if I was the person/team in charge of creating the interface I would be hanging my head in shame for creating such a lowsy product. If I created something similar to this at my job I know my boss would be calling me into his office right now and asking me what the heck I was doing and that I better fix it two days ago.
So basically people are complaining that the controls force you to not click skills to play? I'm sorry I don't see the problem here because everyone is being too vague
Lol the controls of this game are just awful it feel like eating cereal with a fork.
i play the gmae fienw ith mouse except only issue si have is with the ui lag but i can control my character and camara and stuf fliek that fine with keyboard and mouse
So basically people are complaining that the controls force you to not click skills to play? I'm sorry I don't see the problem here because everyone is being too vague
yea you have to use 123456 dont know what the problem is
So basically people are complaining that the controls force you to not click skills to play? I'm sorry I don't see the problem here because everyone is being too vague
yea you have to use 123456 dont know what the problem is
Controls (especially during combat) is a bit iffy with Keyboard+Mouse from what I've experienced. Combat mechanic isn't quite intuitive either because of the multiple clicks needed (unlike most mmos where you can just tab+123456, you have to press "Enter" between every action, etc). Personally, it felt weird on the first day, but then I switch to keyboard-only and it's a lot better/easier to use. As I mentionned in a different thread, it's definitively a console port.
Originally posted by xpiher So basically people are complaining that the controls force you to not click skills to play? I'm sorry I don't see the problem here because everyone is being too vague
You're just trying to be difficult. Bottom line is that many people feel the UI is being different for the sake of being different.
You may like the different controls and UI, but many people feel the tried and true method is better. SE should at least have full keyboard and mouse support so people can do whatever they want.
I'm not saying I should be able to play FFXIV with a Wiimote, and a Guitar Hero drumset (I could if I wanted to), but every PC has a keyboard and mouse, and as a PC game it should have full support of those at the very least. Not having a hardware mouse isn't a feature, it's the lack of a feature.
If SE came out with a patch that gave keyboard and mouse users more functionally, and the ability to skip through the menu system, would it make the game worse? No.
There's pretty much no PvP, would this affect gamepad users in any way. No.
Originally posted by Morgaur Well after trying the game for a day and a half I have come to the conclusion that this game is not created for use with mouse or keyboard. The reason for this is the horrible menu system. It is obvious that this is a console game. I will try to explain: The best method to play this game on the computer is by using the following buttons: WASD = Running around (like the left stick on your xbox/ps3 controller) IJKL = Looking around (like the right stick on your xbox/ps3 controller) HOME = Brings up the menu system on the right side with journal, inventory etc etc (Y button on the controller maybe) ARROW buttons = up, down, lef, right in the menu system, dialoge boxes etc ENTER = Selects a menu, item etc ESC = Closes the active dialogue, menu etc Using the mouse in the game is time consuming and generally a bad bad bad experience. Probably because of the nasty software driver they have implemented, which is sluggish, non accurate and laggy. So you end up running around with wasd and looking around with ijkl and pressing Home, using arrow keys along with Enter and Escape to exit. To select a target I use the TAB key to select it and press Enter twice to switch to Active mode so I can attack the creature. Cumbersome to say the least. Now for me who have been playing games like since I was a teenager (Im 37 now) this is totally awkward. I am so used to click on things that this day and a half have been a terrible experience. For me this menu system is in fact game breaking. It is so bad for me that I will not buy the game, if there haven't been some adjustments to the system. Now this is only my personal feelings. I can guarantee that probably some of you love the system, but for me who have been playing with mouse and shortcut keys its a no go. Anyone else have some feedback on this? I do not hate this game in any way. This is just my personal take on the control system in Final Fantasy XIV. I will keep an eye out on the game, but I doub't that I will play it with this system intact. Shame really
i agree 100%
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well after trying the game for a day and a half I have come to the conclusion that this game is not created for use with mouse or keyboard. The reason for this is the horrible menu system. It is obvious that this is a console game. I will try to explain:
The best method to play this game on the computer is by using the following buttons:
WASD = Running around (like the left stick on your xbox/ps3 controller)
IJKL = Looking around (like the right stick on your xbox/ps3 controller)
HOME = Brings up the menu system on the right side with journal, inventory etc etc (Y button on the controller maybe)
ARROW buttons = up, down, lef, right in the menu system, dialoge boxes etc
ENTER = Selects a menu, item etc
ESC = Closes the active dialogue, menu etc
Using the mouse in the game is time consuming and generally a bad bad bad experience. Probably because of the nasty software driver they have implemented, which is sluggish, non accurate and laggy.
So you end up running around with wasd and looking around with ijkl and pressing Home, using arrow keys along with Enter and Escape to exit. To select a target I use the TAB key to select it and press Enter twice to switch to Active mode so I can attack the creature. Cumbersome to say the least.
Now for me who have been playing games like since I was a teenager (Im 37 now) this is totally awkward. I am so used to click on things that this day and a half have been a terrible experience. For me this menu system is in fact game breaking. It is so bad for me that I will not buy the game, if there haven't been some adjustments to the system.
Now this is only my personal feelings. I can guarantee that probably some of you love the system, but for me who have been playing with mouse and shortcut keys its a no go.
Anyone else have some feedback on this? I do not hate this game in any way. This is just my personal take on the control system in Final Fantasy XIV.
I will keep an eye out on the game, but I doub't that I will play it with this system intact.
Shame really
Yep, idiots trying to use a mouse and keyboard for this game being tested on PCs.....
im not having any issues mouse and keying this game, the only thing ive found tedious that might have been much better with the controller was in crafting and mining i keep having to move all over the screen to click where it seems the controller might do it with a button press without puttin the curser over things.
Well after trying the game for a day and a half I have come to the conclusion that this game is not created for use with mouse or keyboard. The reason for this is the horrible menu system. It is obvious that this is a console game. I will try to explain:
....
Now for me who have been playing games like since I was a teenager (Im 37 now) this is totally awkward. I am so used to click on things that this day and a half have been a terrible experience. For me this menu system is in fact game breaking. It is so bad for me that I will not buy the game, if there haven't been some adjustments to the system.
Now this is only my personal feelings. I can guarantee that probably some of you love the system, but for me who have been playing with mouse and shortcut keys its a no go.
.....
If it wasn't for your title and first paragraph I wouldn't have commented on your post since otherwise you've done a pretty good job of making it clear you are offering your personal opinion. But since you made some pretty definitive declarations with your opening I feel the need to make it clear that I'm another that vehemently disagrees with you.
I have never played an FF game before. But I am quite happy playing with only the mouse and keyboard in FFXIV and have no intention of adding a controller because it isn't necessary, imo. And again, this game is not made just for consoles, it is made for PCs and consoles. It has its own system of controls and I think a lot of people who are used to clicking on thingswill not enjoy this because they are just not willing to spend the time learning a new system. And many of us like the fact that people who are not serious enough about the game to bother learning and getting proficient at new controls will move on.
This is not a cookie cutter MMO. It is, imo, designed for people who can think of a game from a new perspective and not be limited to playing a game that functions just like every other MMO out there. I personally would be very upset if SE changed the controls to suit the people who want to effortlessly jump between FFXIV and the countless other MMOs out there. From what I've seen of the game philosophy of FFXIV if someone needs to not be able to tell they aren't playing WoW when they are at the controls they probably won't be happy playing FFXIV.
So a poor port of a console UI to a PC is the bar by which loving FF players measure any new player. If you can adapt to one of worst UI's in the gaming world that cannot even adhere to basic conventions that have existed since Windows 3.1, you must be smart enough to hang with these cats.
That's some really messed up logic. You must have had time to think and write that post in between clicking through menu options in FF.
Here's another thought. I game with a CONFIGURABLE UI. Crazy talk, ain't it? There is actually more than one way to do something, some games have figured this out.
It took the horrible controls in this game to make me actually post my first response on this site in the many years I've been coming here(have forgotten my account access info and re-registered at least 3 times). I think it is absolutely absurd to see some people defending the control scheme they've implemented. I've had access to the beta for a while now and can tell you there has never been an mmo with such a horribly designed interface. Even FFXI had a better system and it was universally panned when it came out(for the u.i. that is).
Square Enix does NOT need to "dumb down" the scheme, it's already as dumb as it can possibly get, you are talking a single week's worth of coding to fix these problems. You have to download a freaking patch just to get hardware mouse support, created by a beta player mind you(not SE). I'm running a top of the line pc system here and even I can't render that mouse without serious input lag.
The ui isn't even a step back as far as ui's go, they NEVER were this bad: I've been playing mmos since they 80's when you had to dial up directly into a network to play a mud and I've seen the best and worst of them. This game has, without a doubt, the crappiest interface of all time and it's an utter shame, so much love went into almost every other aspect of the game.
The icons, menus and energy bars don't scale to resolution, you have close to no mouse support, no options for customization, a ridiculous menu system that requires navigating multiple menus to get to do something incredibly simple and an outrageous amount of ui lag. I really did love FFXI, played it for a year, but there is no way I can recommend this game to anyone. It may well be the only game I've ever played where it's the control mechanics, not the game mechanics that make me shout at the screen.
And as you can see from this thread, there are an awful lot of fanboys, people who are so emotionally invested into seeing this game succeed that they write up insults in poorly spelt/worded English in an attempt to defend the game. I know it's really hard to get into the open beta with the key denial, 4 day downloads and system crashes but please, don't buy it before you try it.
As I mentioned in my original post, these are my personal views of the UI in this game. Its truly a console game. I have given up playing it and deinstalled the beta today.
- I will not play this game with a controller on my PC, Im a mouse/Keyboard user
- I will not buy a PS3 to play this game as I already have a Xbox360
Talk about alienating a huge group of consumers. It might be cool to play it on my 52" Television set but nope.
I tried to pick out a single persons post here to quote, but there are just so many that are 100% biased and negative based solely on thier own hatred for anything that doesn't work as THEY feel it should. This game works perfectly fine with just the keyboard, leave the mouse out of it ,100%....period.
All these hot headed freaks who feel this UI sucks because they can't click shit, well just stop trying to click shit already. If you can't do that, then just move on. You honestly are doing nothing by posting all this crap but showing everyone how your unable to learn anything new. No, I'm not a fanboi of FF or SE, dont really care either way. Yes I do like this game, simply because I spent a day learning how to play it without the mouse, and I dont have the issues many here do which allows me to see far more of what this game has to offer. I am not blinded by my own frustration with the UI not being compatible with ME. This singular belief that a game MUST have a mouse control or it sucks, well thats your opinion, one which I do not agree with. I can do it just fine without using the mouse, and had you the will to try it yourself instead of standing up biatching about it, you probably could too.
Play this game with a gamepad or the keyboard, not with a mouse. This is NOT a clickers game UI, sorry so many of you out there are clickers and have no ability to adapt to something else, really I am, but stop trying to say this game sucks simply because of your own inability to do something different than you are used to. Everyone screaming 'oh my god!! why didnt they put in hardware mouse support, they must be stupid!", umm no, isn't it obvious yet? They didnt put in hardware mouse support because the UI was never designed with the use of the mouse in mind, end of discussion. They added software mouse support just to try and appease the people who can't play any other way. Honestly I think they should have left that out too, all it has done is piss off people more than it appeased them.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
pretty much right on the spot, you can adapt becouse the game itself is worth it, or feel is not worth the time.
I dont see the big issue here, the controls sux, they will be optimised , maybe , but right now they sux,(i myself havent seen mayor improvments since patch , but i dont play with mouse that much anyways , keyboard and controler, randomly) doing 100 macros make the game 100% better, whatever set up you use.
It all come down to , do you feel everythin else is appeling to you ?Saying you dont play if you cant play with K/M set up is just being close minded.FFXI is the perfect example of this. Look at the ui. Is how ffxiv down the road is going to be. Trying to say it will be better is just liying to yourself, but by no means it will be worst, is just a matter to give the devs time to test/fix thins.Maybe is an old way of doing thins but is how SE is doing it , this will have no effect on the final outcome, it will still be the same.
Now that i think about it , they do have hardware mouse on the client , just not enabled it, ever tought they do it server side now to trace the problems better ?. Im no pc genious but everythin right now is done server side. So is only natural later on the load on the servers will be adjusted.
I appreciate it that it is the fanboys that are incapable of forming coherent sentences without the use of over-used cliches and stereotypes.
The controls are the main reason I'll probably end up not playing it that long. I have two real life friends that used to play FFXI that were planning on getting it (I had four more that no longer have systems that can run it), but with the graphics not allowing our other friends to play, and the controls being so awkward they said that they probably won't stick around after the first month.
I agree that the controller is better suited for this UI but explain in detail how the controls are awkward because the only gripe I can see it the fact those who use a mouse will have to point and click through the menus. Combat is relatively easy with the mouse too. To me is sounds like people are expecting it to have a UI like WoW where all you do is just push a button and it does everything for you. I'm sorry but not every developer dumbs down their game just to please the simpletons of the world.
Funny, I didn't think making the controls and UI more responsive and efficient was considered dumbing down, to be honest I think what they currently did to the controls and UI is considered dumbing down, dumbed down for console use. I mean thats like saying a new Lamborghini model thats twice as fast is considered dumbed down.
PS. They don't have to replace the current controls and UI, you woudln't be able to play it on console without it, all people are saying is a second set for PC players to use would be nice.
^ This
While I've had no real trouble adapting to the control scheme in this game, IMO it is entirely idiotic to think that slow and cumbersome = smart, while fast and efficient = dumbed down. Regardless of whether or not you preferthis design to that of the majority of the other MMOs out there, there is no question it is archaic and less efficient.
I myself find it stupid to go through a menu of buttons to perform an action when I can push one and be done.
Comments
If they are going to complain about an extra click of the mouse then maybe they should not play at all. Heck, maybe they should complain about how they have to actually type to chat. Why can't there be a function in mmos that when you hit the button it actually does all the work for me. Oh wait we have that, it is called WoW. I'm so glad this game does not cater to the masses.
The fact that you have to push a few more clicks in this game to do some simple things does not make it harder or different than WoW, it just makes it stupid.
Well i had no problems yet with the mouse + keyboard controls, and i've played several hours already.
As to the keyboard, lots of buttons do different things than the normal MMO, but it's not hard to learn, I'm already adapted.
As to the mouse, some say about it being laggy as hell, but i've seen none mouse lag yet. Maybe it's because my mouse speed was always set to max (rts player hehe). It's a little slower than the normal speed, but it's still 100% playable.
However, i think the game should really be more fluid and play better with a console controller, I don't have ways to test it though because last console i bought was the playstation 1 lol (pc gamer here).
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I tried it all. Keyboard only, keyboard+mouse, gamepad... all suck heavily. Game's controls are retarded just for the sake of being retarded... they don't really add anything.
It's just a chat, a shortcut bar, targeting, moving around, combat and talking to NPCs... over 9000 MMOs have done this in the past a lot more ergonomic, simplistic and overall better. I can only assume they are trying to win the Guinness record for the worst game controls ever.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
And they will win, because SE likes to win.
on another note; Sorry to see you go scooby.
We will miss your posts here on the ff14 forums but we understand that there isnt anything holding you here anymore.
Bai Bai
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
I think its right thread to ask that question, asked same question on another site too.My question is;
Im playing conjurer class and when press "Blizzard" action on my keyboard (target locked btw) it keep saying select target-area effect etc and i need to accept Enter to land Blizzard action on target but when use macro like /ac "Blizzard" <t> casting blizzard without saying anything or press enter to accept
We cant put macros on first hotbar so do i need to use alt or ctrl macros all the time to avoid accept-enter, area effect-select target warnings etc? If i play with ctrl and alt to use spell action macros, whats first hotbar for?
*Thinking to buy controller at release, i just cant play this game with keyboard+mouse combination.
the first time you kick back in a recliner playing on a 47" HDTV with a wireless keyboard + controller combo you will realize why people enjoy it so much. It is much more enjoyable way to play a video game rather then hunched over a keyboard and mouse..
If it wasn't for your title and first paragraph I wouldn't have commented on your post since otherwise you've done a pretty good job of making it clear you are offering your personal opinion. But since you made some pretty definitive declarations with your opening I feel the need to make it clear that I'm another that vehemently disagrees with you.
I have never played an FF game before. But I am quite happy playing with only the mouse and keyboard in FFXIV and have no intention of adding a controller because it isn't necessary, imo. And again, this game is not made just for consoles, it is made for PCs and consoles. It has its own system of controls and I think a lot of people who are used to clicking on things will not enjoy this because they are just not willing to spend the time learning a new system. And many of us like the fact that people who are not serious enough about the game to bother learning and getting proficient at new controls will move on.
This is not a cookie cutter MMO. It is, imo, designed for people who can think of a game from a new perspective and not be limited to playing a game that functions just like every other MMO out there. I personally would be very upset if SE changed the controls to suit the people who want to effortlessly jump between FFXIV and the countless other MMOs out there. From what I've seen of the game philosophy of FFXIV if someone needs to not be able to tell they aren't playing WoW when they are at the controls they probably won't be happy playing FFXIV.
Yes exactly.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
hehehe, that was awesome. I can only assume sephiroth112 is trying to be funny.
When developing software one of the highest priority items is to make the interface as intuitive, quick, and as easy to use as possible. This isn't about people complaining about having to make 6 actions to do something that would only take 1 action in just about any other game. This is about questioning what was SE actually thinking when they designed this UI?
According to the people saying the interface is an improvement on all the other games out there, this is how the conversation at Square Enix must have gone:
SE Employee #1: Ok guys, we're making a new game. Employee #2, need you to make a beautiful world.
Employee #2: Roger.
Employee #1: #3, I need you to come up with a great storyline that makes the player feel like they're a part of the world.
#3: No problem, boss.
#1: Ok, #4, to tie it all together I want you to come up with an interface that doesn't detract from gameplay, is incredibly intuitive, is amazingly simple to learn yet offers plenty of options and features that a power user can make use of, and looks great.
#4: Well, actually boss, I was thinking of taking a few steps back. You know how the rest of the software world tries to make UIs easy to use? You know, like to open the inventory system you can either click a backpack icon, hit the "I" key, or assign any other key or a controller's button to open it?
#1: Yeah! That sounds aweso....
#4: Yeah I'm throwing that out the window. I think it would be so much cooler and unique by making the user click a button, then click another button and maybe another button or two after that. And don't let them adjust that to make it any easier or quicker. Because that would just "dumb" down the system.
#1: But...
#4: And then in every other game how you can right click to equip an item, or drag it to your character doll, or set it into a macro to switch easily?
#1: Yeah, that's a goo...
#4: That's just too dumb. I thought it would be great to add another step. That makes it unique. Only smart people know how to click two or three times instead of once to accomplish something. Only dumb people like to only use one step instead of a bunch of steps.
#1: Hang on, how's that better tha...
#4: Another awesome idea I had was that instead of giving the user a central, powerful, easy to use interface to make video changes on the fly, we'll give them a few controls in the game, but then we'll create a second application outside of the game to make all the other adjustments.
#1: Now hold on he...
#4: You see, having all the options in one handy location within the game is only for stupid people. Really hardcore and brilliant gamers think that is for WoW carebears and prefer running second applications before running the game. You know, because two is always better than one.
#1: You're a loon you know th...
#4: And just to keep things uniform in nature I'm going to use all my awesome ideas for every other part of the interface. Like how every other game lets you hit only one button to open the skill screen, or the stats screen, or anything else... well that's only for morons. Only morons, idiots, WoW players, and stupid people think that using one button instead between two and five steps to do something is intuitive. They don't recognize that by making them take a bunch of extra steps we're making a unique and creative interface! Only boring, "dumbed down", stupid interfaces use one step instead of two to five steps. This interface will be unique!
#1: *facepalm*
Seriously, people... How in the world can you defend the idea that adding extra steps and taking away customizability is actually making the game better? Using one button to do things instead of two to five buttons/clicks is "dumbing" it down? Seriously? I can't even fathom how someone can really believe that's true and support it.
Creating extra steps and making an interface more cumbersome isn't making the game unique, or different (not in a good way anyhow). It's making it into a game with a bad interface. There are plenty of games out there with non-standard interfaces, with interfaces unlike anything else. But they also make sure they're easy to use and make things as easy for the user as possible. Ever play The Chronicles of Spellborn? The combat system in that was completely different and very unique. It was also a fun way to do things. It added to the game. Unique, but not cumbersome. Different, but not something that detracts from gameplay.
Making things take longer isn't progress. I don't care if it's only one click added. The question you have to ask is WHY did they decide to go from only one button press/click to two to five? What does the game possibly gain from doing that?
When you make changes or additions to a system the first thing a developer needs to do is ask "How does this change or addition make this system better? What does it add to the experience?"
You can't honestly tell me that by adding extra meaningless steps actually improves the interface. You can't tell me that not letting the user assign a ton of different actions or system functions to any key/button they want in an intuitive way improves the interface.
I'm not saying the game is bad. I'm actually starting to like it some. The game, not the interface. I've grown used to the interface. I know how to use it. I know how to do everything I need to. But I don't like it. Not once have I said to myself, "Wow, I wish other games would do it this way." Not once have I said, "Holy crap, doing it this way is so much faster and easier than any other game I've played!"
All I know is if I was the person/team in charge of creating the interface I would be hanging my head in shame for creating such a lowsy product. If I created something similar to this at my job I know my boss would be calling me into his office right now and asking me what the heck I was doing and that I better fix it two days ago.
So basically people are complaining that the controls force you to not click skills to play? I'm sorry I don't see the problem here because everyone is being too vague
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Lol the controls of this game are just awful it feel like eating cereal with a fork.
i play the gmae fienw ith mouse except only issue si have is with the ui lag but i can control my character and camara and stuf fliek that fine with keyboard and mouse
yea you have to use 123456 dont know what the problem is
Controls (especially during combat) is a bit iffy with Keyboard+Mouse from what I've experienced. Combat mechanic isn't quite intuitive either because of the multiple clicks needed (unlike most mmos where you can just tab+123456, you have to press "Enter" between every action, etc). Personally, it felt weird on the first day, but then I switch to keyboard-only and it's a lot better/easier to use. As I mentionned in a different thread, it's definitively a console port.
You're just trying to be difficult. Bottom line is that many people feel the UI is being different for the sake of being different.
You may like the different controls and UI, but many people feel the tried and true method is better. SE should at least have full keyboard and mouse support so people can do whatever they want.
I'm not saying I should be able to play FFXIV with a Wiimote, and a Guitar Hero drumset (I could if I wanted to), but every PC has a keyboard and mouse, and as a PC game it should have full support of those at the very least. Not having a hardware mouse isn't a feature, it's the lack of a feature.
If SE came out with a patch that gave keyboard and mouse users more functionally, and the ability to skip through the menu system, would it make the game worse? No.
There's pretty much no PvP, would this affect gamepad users in any way. No.
More functionality is better.
i agree 100%
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Yep, idiots trying to use a mouse and keyboard for this game being tested on PCs.....
deez nutz?
im not having any issues mouse and keying this game, the only thing ive found tedious that might have been much better with the controller was in crafting and mining i keep having to move all over the screen to click where it seems the controller might do it with a button press without puttin the curser over things.
So a poor port of a console UI to a PC is the bar by which loving FF players measure any new player. If you can adapt to one of worst UI's in the gaming world that cannot even adhere to basic conventions that have existed since Windows 3.1, you must be smart enough to hang with these cats.
That's some really messed up logic. You must have had time to think and write that post in between clicking through menu options in FF.
Here's another thought. I game with a CONFIGURABLE UI. Crazy talk, ain't it? There is actually more than one way to do something, some games have figured this out.
It took the horrible controls in this game to make me actually post my first response on this site in the many years I've been coming here(have forgotten my account access info and re-registered at least 3 times). I think it is absolutely absurd to see some people defending the control scheme they've implemented. I've had access to the beta for a while now and can tell you there has never been an mmo with such a horribly designed interface. Even FFXI had a better system and it was universally panned when it came out(for the u.i. that is).
Square Enix does NOT need to "dumb down" the scheme, it's already as dumb as it can possibly get, you are talking a single week's worth of coding to fix these problems. You have to download a freaking patch just to get hardware mouse support, created by a beta player mind you(not SE). I'm running a top of the line pc system here and even I can't render that mouse without serious input lag.
The ui isn't even a step back as far as ui's go, they NEVER were this bad: I've been playing mmos since they 80's when you had to dial up directly into a network to play a mud and I've seen the best and worst of them. This game has, without a doubt, the crappiest interface of all time and it's an utter shame, so much love went into almost every other aspect of the game.
The icons, menus and energy bars don't scale to resolution, you have close to no mouse support, no options for customization, a ridiculous menu system that requires navigating multiple menus to get to do something incredibly simple and an outrageous amount of ui lag. I really did love FFXI, played it for a year, but there is no way I can recommend this game to anyone. It may well be the only game I've ever played where it's the control mechanics, not the game mechanics that make me shout at the screen.
And as you can see from this thread, there are an awful lot of fanboys, people who are so emotionally invested into seeing this game succeed that they write up insults in poorly spelt/worded English in an attempt to defend the game. I know it's really hard to get into the open beta with the key denial, 4 day downloads and system crashes but please, don't buy it before you try it.
As I mentioned in my original post, these are my personal views of the UI in this game. Its truly a console game. I have given up playing it and deinstalled the beta today.
- I will not play this game with a controller on my PC, Im a mouse/Keyboard user
- I will not buy a PS3 to play this game as I already have a Xbox360
Talk about alienating a huge group of consumers. It might be cool to play it on my 52" Television set but nope.
Lets see what happens closer to release
PS! I like the game, not the UI hehe
I tried to pick out a single persons post here to quote, but there are just so many that are 100% biased and negative based solely on thier own hatred for anything that doesn't work as THEY feel it should. This game works perfectly fine with just the keyboard, leave the mouse out of it ,100%....period.
All these hot headed freaks who feel this UI sucks because they can't click shit, well just stop trying to click shit already. If you can't do that, then just move on. You honestly are doing nothing by posting all this crap but showing everyone how your unable to learn anything new. No, I'm not a fanboi of FF or SE, dont really care either way. Yes I do like this game, simply because I spent a day learning how to play it without the mouse, and I dont have the issues many here do which allows me to see far more of what this game has to offer. I am not blinded by my own frustration with the UI not being compatible with ME. This singular belief that a game MUST have a mouse control or it sucks, well thats your opinion, one which I do not agree with. I can do it just fine without using the mouse, and had you the will to try it yourself instead of standing up biatching about it, you probably could too.
Play this game with a gamepad or the keyboard, not with a mouse. This is NOT a clickers game UI, sorry so many of you out there are clickers and have no ability to adapt to something else, really I am, but stop trying to say this game sucks simply because of your own inability to do something different than you are used to. Everyone screaming 'oh my god!! why didnt they put in hardware mouse support, they must be stupid!", umm no, isn't it obvious yet? They didnt put in hardware mouse support because the UI was never designed with the use of the mouse in mind, end of discussion. They added software mouse support just to try and appease the people who can't play any other way. Honestly I think they should have left that out too, all it has done is piss off people more than it appeased them.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
pretty much right on the spot, you can adapt becouse the game itself is worth it, or feel is not worth the time.
I dont see the big issue here, the controls sux, they will be optimised , maybe , but right now they sux,(i myself havent seen mayor improvments since patch , but i dont play with mouse that much anyways , keyboard and controler, randomly) doing 100 macros make the game 100% better, whatever set up you use.
It all come down to , do you feel everythin else is appeling to you ?Saying you dont play if you cant play with K/M set up is just being close minded.FFXI is the perfect example of this. Look at the ui. Is how ffxiv down the road is going to be. Trying to say it will be better is just liying to yourself, but by no means it will be worst, is just a matter to give the devs time to test/fix thins.Maybe is an old way of doing thins but is how SE is doing it , this will have no effect on the final outcome, it will still be the same.
Now that i think about it , they do have hardware mouse on the client , just not enabled it, ever tought they do it server side now to trace the problems better ?. Im no pc genious but everythin right now is done server side. So is only natural later on the load on the servers will be adjusted.
^ This
While I've had no real trouble adapting to the control scheme in this game, IMO it is entirely idiotic to think that slow and cumbersome = smart, while fast and efficient = dumbed down. Regardless of whether or not you prefer this design to that of the majority of the other MMOs out there, there is no question it is archaic and less efficient.
I myself find it stupid to go through a menu of buttons to perform an action when I can push one and be done.
Your fail comment, failed.