What they are going to have server stability and crashing problems as well???? Because that was WARs only problem
Server stability and crashing were WAR's only problems?
LOL!
Are you talking about Warhammer Online? It had a slew more hardcore problems. Order being lackluster compared to Destruction. DPS uber alles. Nobody doing RvR despite the PvP emphasis of the game and everyone sitting inside of scenarios. Nobody doing Public Quests. And that's just for starters.
Maybe they fixed things by now, but those were some of the major issues when the game came out. If they did fix it, well, not as many people are there anymore.
You were talking about WAR, right? lol!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Look in 40k lore does 3 factions make any more sence than 2 factions? If you have 3 factions how are you going to break them up? Either way there is going to be an alliance of some sort weather it's Chaos and Orks versus Imperium of man versus Eldar. Nope if your going the multiple seperate server route 2 playable factions make sence with maybe a 3rd NPC faction of Nids and Necros that wouldn't really co-operate but would be attacking from different parts at different times maybe. On such server setups more than 3 factions would spread the playerbase to thinly and all kinds of weird player made alliances would be created anyway which could end up being worse.
To illistrate take a server population. Now divide that in half to represent how many can play at any one time. Now divide that by however many factions your thinking of. Thats the best case senerio of how many people you have playing your faction while your online. So with a 20,000 server population 3 faction system your best case senerio for potential team mates is 3333. With 4 factions it's 2500 and so on and so forth. Of those potential team mates though alot don't want to do what your doing, alot arn't at a high enough level, alot are to high a level and some are complete idiots on your ignore list.
The obvious solution to this is to have everyone on 1 server but it would appear that only a couple of small niche game developers have the technology to do this. Then again these guys also arn't looking for 1 million customers straight off the bat like THQ is. It would also appear evan the most advanced dev team on this sort of set up (CCP) runs into problems with around 350,000 accounts when over 30,000 want to try and play at once. So it would appear that the infrastructure and server technology isn't up to the task to handle a single sever with the kind of numbers the big devhouses want/need to justify the expence of developing a MMO.
The next solution would be some kind of lobby type system. However recent experiments in such systems wouldn't seem to support this solution. APB is struggling financially, Global Adgenda has been forced to drop the sub and now runs a GW type setup and still doesn't seem that popular. Crimecraft is FTP and dropped off most peoples radar not that it registered much of a blip on them anyways. Not exactly the kind of results you can take to the investors and expect to make it through the presentation let alone getting to the point where you can ask them for money.
Nope the best of a bunch of poor options remains multiple seperate servers and that means low numbers of factions of which at least in this case 2 playable ones makes as sence as 3 while leaving room to add more races in future expansions.
Ok I see where your going with this post. I have played my fair share of MMO's were ive spent two to three hours a time in game without even coming into contact with another player.
This usually happens three to for month after release after all the hype has passed and the die hard fanboys are the onlyones left still clinging onto the idea that somehow there going to get the problem fixed and then some how pople are going to notice that its been fixed and sub again in their droves to give the game a second chance. one thing ive notice about every release of a new game is that the player numbers that the bigwigs acount for when lanching a triple A title are usually massivly under estimated leading to servere server lag and instability. i remember Blizzard scratching their heads as to were exactly they found the several million player base that seemed to popo up out of no were. With an IP like WH40k the problem of the millions of willing players wanting to transfer their passion from the table top to the mmo game. The problem is the tech. Now I could belive that the tech issue was a Problem if there wernt allready mmo title's out there allready using the multifaction model and has and is doing successfully allready.
Man am i disappointed. Two factions? Imps + Elder + Chaos + Orcs and your telling me your story will somehow make sense with two factions?
I think they totally lost it, sorry. But what makes Warhammer 40k great is the immersion, the fact that its not about good or evil but about kicking ass. I can totally see myself playing a ork and walking up to some chaos cultist to receive my orders, yeah thats totally what being a orc is all about. Or how about a spacemarine taking orders from a elder? It made little sense in fantasy Warhammers world, but it actually makes zero sense in W40ks world. I'll bet i cant even randomly slaughter people on my side(atleast the NPCs? No? *sigh*), you might be able to play orks or eldar or space marines there but its obvious the heart of it is already dead.
Its not enough to get a little bit of fluff thrown our way in the questtexts, or have some funky differently starting zones. If you make orks play the same as chaos marines, or eldar the same as imperial guards, just with different questtexts you already lost 90% of your customers. It will be just another case of playing reskinned generalized guys, doing the same quests maybe with individualized starting zones. Makes me a bit sad.
Especially as orks would have made such an awesome 3rd faction. Its well known they outnumber both chaos and imps together, and care little for sides or causes. Why couldnt they just make them into some sort of player/npc hybrid race that more or less randomly raids whichever faction holds enough ground(or crashes the party by mixing things up in a nice 3 way battle)? The orks could have been kept in check by randomly turning different clans hostile to each other when the other factions refuse to fight them, it would have made sense and would have been very funny to watch when that ork WB that was about to crush your resistance suddenly turns on itself.
I know how the IP is set up but more than 2 faction will just not work in a 40k mmo.
People just need to think the mechanics of it and will see that in RACE based mmo only 2 factions work.
Just imagine this simple scenario of 40k mmo coming out with 2+ factions:
The general player base (not the ~5% of the mmo players that plays the tabletop and has tau/necron/dark eldar miniature armies) could turn out like this:
50% space marines (because for most people 40k = space marines)
30% chaos marines (because some want to play 'evil')
5% Ork (because some people always play ork)
5% inquisition (because they are awesome :P)
9% eldar/dark eldar/tau etc (table top players)
1% IG (lol)
You may not believe that it would turn out like that (that's only my opinion) but with separate factions it's a possibility so the game has to be designed with a scenario like that in mind.
What's gonna happen then in the server if chaos/orc and the rest have friendly fire on cause they are separate factions but the 50% space marines have friendly fire off? who would even bother playing some obscure race like dark eldar when they could never form a single raid?
Only 3 factions then? How does that fit 40k lore? The 2 factions would have to be Imperium and chaos so who would 3rd faction be out of all the above and how could they stand against 90% of the server?
Under separate factions and a distribution like the above soon the small races would beg to be able to join the big ones for raids or reroll one of those so that's practically 2 big races fighting for the server and a ton of unused PVE content at the leveling zones of the rest because no-one plays them.
So the natural solution is to group every race under 2 factions from the beggining and pray that one side doesn't get too large (also use queues etc). Nothing else works in race based games simple as that unless you want alliance/guild based warfare like eve or darkfall but that doesn't work in 40k for obvious reasons.
Just a last observation: In my opinion 2 sided RvR failed in WAR not because it had 2 factions but because the class balance and looks favoured Destruction. Since 40k doesnt have pansy elves and stupid dwarves and no clear-cut 'good' side I think it will be ok with 2 factions.
I know how the IP is set up but more than 2 faction will just not work in a 40k mmo.
People just need to think the mechanics of it and will see that in RACE based mmo only 2 factions work.
Just imagine this simple scenario of 40k mmo coming out with 2+ factions:
The general player base (not the ~5% of the mmo players that plays the tabletop and has tau/necron/dark eldar miniature armies) could turn out like this:
50% space marines (because for most people 40k = space marines)
30% chaos marines (because some want to play 'evil')
5% Ork (because some people always play ork)
5% inquisition (because they are awesome :P)
9% eldar/dark eldar/tau etc (table top players)
1% IG (lol)
You may not believe that it would turn out like that (that's only my opinion) but with separate factions it's a possibility so the game has to be designed with a scenario like that in mind.
What's gonna happen then in the server if chaos/orc and the rest have friendly fire on cause they are separate factions but the 50% space marines have friendly fire off? who would even bother playing some obscure race like dark eldar when they could never form a single raid?
Only 3 factions then? How does that fit 40k lore? The 2 factions would have to be Imperium and chaos so who would 3rd faction be out of all the above and how could they stand against 90% of the server?
Under separate factions and a distribution like the above soon the small races would beg to be able to join the big ones for raids or reroll one of those so that's practically 2 big races fighting for the server and a ton of unused PVE content at the leveling zones of the rest because no-one plays them.
So the natural solution is to group every race under 2 factions from the beggining and pray that one side doesn't get too large (also use queues etc). Nothing else works in race based games simple as that unless you want alliance/guild based warfare like eve or darkfall but that doesn't work in 40k for obvious reasons.
Just a last observation: In my opinion 2 sided RvR failed in WAR not because it had 2 factions but because the class balance and looks favoured Destruction. Since 40k doesnt have pansy elves and stupid dwarves and no clear-cut 'good' side I think it will be ok with 2 factions.
I understand the problems of over tilt on factions in rvr but the problems that you pointed out here arnt actualy solved by having just 2 factions as you will still enevitably get a tilt towards one faction or another reguardless of the number of factios available. The only simple solution to this problem is to have just one faction. There are more complex solutions for example ,low population bonuses, and npc intervetion ect. which usualy work reguardless of the number of factions implamented.
I know how the IP is set up but more than 2 faction will just not work in a 40k mmo.
People just need to think the mechanics of it and will see that in RACE based mmo only 2 factions work.
Just imagine this simple scenario of 40k mmo coming out with 2+ factions:
The general player base (not the ~5% of the mmo players that plays the tabletop and has tau/necron/dark eldar miniature armies) could turn out like this:
50% space marines (because for most people 40k = space marines)
30% chaos marines (because some want to play 'evil')
5% Ork (because some people always play ork)
5% inquisition (because they are awesome :P)
9% eldar/dark eldar/tau etc (table top players)
1% IG (lol)
You may not believe that it would turn out like that (that's only my opinion) but with separate factions it's a possibility so the game has to be designed with a scenario like that in mind.
What's gonna happen then in the server if chaos/orc and the rest have friendly fire on cause they are separate factions but the 50% space marines have friendly fire off? who would even bother playing some obscure race like dark eldar when they could never form a single raid?
Only 3 factions then? How does that fit 40k lore? The 2 factions would have to be Imperium and chaos so who would 3rd faction be out of all the above and how could they stand against 90% of the server?
Under separate factions and a distribution like the above soon the small races would beg to be able to join the big ones for raids or reroll one of those so that's practically 2 big races fighting for the server and a ton of unused PVE content at the leveling zones of the rest because no-one plays them.
So the natural solution is to group every race under 2 factions from the beggining and pray that one side doesn't get too large (also use queues etc). Nothing else works in race based games simple as that unless you want alliance/guild based warfare like eve or darkfall but that doesn't work in 40k for obvious reasons.
Just a last observation: In my opinion 2 sided RvR failed in WAR not because it had 2 factions but because the class balance and looks favoured Destruction. Since 40k doesnt have pansy elves and stupid dwarves and no clear-cut 'good' side I think it will be ok with 2 factions.
I understand the problems of over tilt on factions in rvr but the problems that you pointed out here arnt actualy solved by having just 2 factions as you will still enevitably get a tilt towards one faction or another reguardless of the number of factios available. The only simple solution to this problem is to have just one faction. There are more complex solutions for example ,low population bonuses, and npc intervetion ect. which usualy work reguardless of the number of factions implamented.
just thought id point out that your are most likely very short sighted with you 9% for table top players. I think you will find that this figue will be more in line with the space marine 50% figure. but i guess those figuers were just a meens of shwing you example.
SO many people making assumptions about what 2 factions in tis game means cuase other games have 2 factions. Just becuase WAR has 2 factions it doesnt mean that in DMO, you are going to be a space marine visiting the Eldar to get orders. It may mean that there is a cease fire between sides cuase thier is a greater common threat from the other. shoot, the 2 factions may not even work directly with each other, the may just have a truce which allows one faction to combat the other.
The way I would do a 2 faction ssytem is this.
Each side has truces with the race it is associated with. These truces are fragile but allow the order races to not kill eachother and concentrate on th common enemy and vice versa for the destruction side.
However, based upon certain game states and events, I would allow for the truces that are there to be broken for a short time wherein there could be combat between the factions of order and between the factions of destruction. Then after certain conditions are met, the game returns back to an icy truce between sides..
As far as the "wow this game looks like lollypop pastel" etc etc etc. Go to games workshops website, look at all the tabletop models and see how they are painted. that is GWs sanctioned LOOK for thier games. Everything is very colorful, that hasnt changed in the 23+ years I have been involved in the hobby. They, s mentioned in interviews are striving for a comon ground between the table top look and the lore and art look and I think they are achieving tat.
SO many people making assumptions about what 2 factions in tis game means cuase other games have 2 factions. Just becuase WAR has 2 factions it doesnt mean that in DMO, you are going to be a space marine visiting the Eldar to get orders. It may mean that there is a cease fire between sides cuase thier is a greater common threat from the other. shoot, the 2 factions may not even work directly with each other, the may just have a truce which allows one faction to combat the other.
The way I would do a 2 faction ssytem is this.
Each side has truces with the race it is associated with. These truces are fragile but allow the order races to not kill eachother and concentrate on th common enemy and vice versa for the destruction side.
However, based upon certain game states and events, I would allow for the truces that are there to be broken for a short time wherein there could be combat between the factions of order and between the factions of destruction. Then after certain conditions are met, the game returns back to an icy truce between sides..
As far as the "wow this game looks like lollypop pastel" etc etc etc. Go to games workshops website, look at all the tabletop models and see how they are painted. that is GWs sanctioned LOOK for thier games. Everything is very colorful, that hasnt changed in the 23+ years I have been involved in the hobby. They, s mentioned in interviews are striving for a comon ground between the table top look and the lore and art look and I think they are achieving tat.
chaosboy walks upto da boss nd says " can we have a truse"da bos jus shouts WAAAAAAAGH! and knock ten shades of SH*@ outa da chaosboy
chaosboy walks upto da boss nd says " can we have a truse"da bos jus shouts WAAAAAAAGH! and knock ten shades of SH*@ outa da chaosboy
text appears on ork warboss screen" you cannot engage in pvp with this race at this time. resolve greater threat from imperium of man to enable pvp with this race"
The idea behind multifaction balance is that no faction can ever get bigger than all other factions combined. Thats impossible with 2 factions, but gets increasingly more likely the more factions you get. Gamemechanics and graphics aside, this worked wonderfully in DaoC. Every time one side got too powerful the other two sides got into an more or less unofficial cease fire and ganged up on the stronger one.
Also while your right insofar as human races usually end up dominating in MMOs, you ignore that with chaos and imperium we obviously have human races on both sides. Also tabletop playerbase is of little concern, its not as if only W40k fans would play such a mmo if it was wellmade. If your really worried about chaos being underrepresented just give them better racials, cooler emotes and kickass fighting animations aswell as a bunch of halfnekkid toons with boobs fighting in g-strings. Worked every time so far. Just ... not with the orks ok ... omg the visual ...
Warhammer 40k is not colorfull, if you have ever actually read a codex or seen a book cover or a profesionally painted figurine its detailed for sure, but if you have ever painted a tabletop figurine its not done with pastel crayons as it looks now it done with very deep colored paint, some higlights and ofcourse the secret of modelpainting, dark inks for the shading.
The artwork i have seen so far has no shading whatsoever, look at a chaos space marine figurine and they look nasty and scary not like a alice in wonderland character that the game developers have made for this, its just silly and really insulting for the tabletop fans.
Warhammer 40k is not colorfull, if you have ever actually read a codex or seen a book cover or a profesionally painted figurine its detailed for sure, but if you have ever painted a tabletop figurine its not done with pastel crayons as it looks now it done with very deep colored paint, some higlights and ofcourse the secret of modelpainting, dark inks for the shading.
The artwork i have seen so far has no shading whatsoever, look at a chaos space marine figurine and they look nasty and scary not like a alice in wonderland character that the game developers have made for this, its just silly and really insulting for the tabletop fans.
go look at the games workshop models currently displayed on the games workshop site to represent thier game to their customers, then get back to me... Your vision of WH40k isnt colorful, my 23 years of experience with the hobby says otherwise... but like I said, go check out the models on the site, dont take my word for it. The disingers of this game are trying to achieve a balance between both sides.
SO many people making assumptions about what 2 factions in tis game means cuase other games have 2 factions. Just becuase WAR has 2 factions it doesnt mean that in DMO, you are going to be a space marine visiting the Eldar to get orders. It may mean that there is a cease fire between sides cuase thier is a greater common threat from the other. shoot, the 2 factions may not even work directly with each other, the may just have a truce which allows one faction to combat the other.
The way I would do a 2 faction ssytem is this.
Each side has truces with the race it is associated with. These truces are fragile but allow the order races to not kill eachother and concentrate on th common enemy and vice versa for the destruction side.
However, based upon certain game states and events, I would allow for the truces that are there to be broken for a short time wherein there could be combat between the factions of order and between the factions of destruction. Then after certain conditions are met, the game returns back to an icy truce between sides..
As far as the "wow this game looks like lollypop pastel" etc etc etc. Go to games workshops website, look at all the tabletop models and see how they are painted. that is GWs sanctioned LOOK for thier games. Everything is very colorful, that hasnt changed in the 23+ years I have been involved in the hobby. They, s mentioned in interviews are striving for a comon ground between the table top look and the lore and art look and I think they are achieving tat.
chaosboy walks upto da boss nd says " can we have a truse"da bos jus shouts WAAAAAAAGH! and knock ten shades of SH*@ outa da chaosboy
of course you know this game could be designed where any sort of interaction as you have just pointed out is irrelevant.
Black Templars are an odd choice... With them you can't stay true to lore in anyway and only have 2 factions, as black Templars will not ally with anything with psyhic powers, Tau, eldar and even Librarians.
Personally I would like them to start with 3.
Choas(chaos marines and demons), the imperium of men(Space Marines, IG, Inquistions, etc..), and the Tau(with the Koots).
But they will probably want Eldar... not sure why people like Eldar over the Tau, because the Tau are WAY cooler and have alot more options.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Warhammer 40k is not colorfull, if you have ever actually read a codex or seen a book cover or a profesionally painted figurine its detailed for sure, but if you have ever painted a tabletop figurine its not done with pastel crayons as it looks now it done with very deep colored paint, some higlights and ofcourse the secret of modelpainting, dark inks for the shading.
The artwork i have seen so far has no shading whatsoever, look at a chaos space marine figurine and they look nasty and scary not like a alice in wonderland character that the game developers have made for this, its just silly and really insulting for the tabletop fans.
indeed i have painted a gw model or 2. quite a substatial number infact. i have pritty much all the codexe's, old and new, and have read them front to back several times, aswell as having read a sizable chunk of the black library books on 40k.
of course you know this game could be designed where any sort of interaction as you have just pointed out is irrelevant.
Well you have justed summed up what people are saying about the effort vigil games have taken to the ip in this game. Irrelevant!
You can not say this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ look even remotely like the screenshots of the game. I guess its not really a W40k game just a spinoff for the kids...
And Black Templars that don't even have there weapons chained to there armor??? ROFL! yeah they have studied the lore, only not the one Games Workshop wrote...
I love the 40k IP, but everytime these guys open their mouths, I die a little inside. I'm almost to the point of having no hope for this game. When they say crap like: "we know that the fans are going to love it. How could they not when Games Workshop is closely working with us on making sure that the game stays true to the lore and the IP!"
Oh well, it's a long way off.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Black Templars are an odd choice... With them you can't stay true to lore in anyway and only have 2 factions, as black Templars will not ally with anything with psyhic powers, Tau, eldar and even Librarians.
Personally I would like them to start with 3.
Choas(chaos marines and demons), the imperium of men(Space Marines, IG, Inquistions, etc..), and the Tau(with the Koots).
But they will probably want Eldar... not sure why people like Eldar over the Tau, because the Tau are WAY cooler and have alot more options.
The reason why you will see Eldar first before some of the other races in WH40k is that they are one of the original races / factions. They have a long intricate history with the IP. I recall back in my Tabletop days there were some pretty good, hardcore Eldar players in decent quantity. Back in the Rogue Trader rulebook for WH40k, the 3 races shown prominently were: Humans, Orks, Eldar.
It's like a big multiplayer Star Trek game having the Federation and Dominion, but not the Klingons or Romulans. You'd be missing some fundamental things about the setting of the IP, because the Klingons and Romulans have long been major players in the franchise, ever since The Original Series days.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
I love the 40k IP, but everytime these guys open their mouths, I die a little inside. I'm almost to the point of having no hope for this game. When they say crap like: "we know that the fans are going to love it. How could they not when Games Workshop is closely working with us on making sure that the game stays true to the lore and the IP!"
Oh well, it's a long way off.
Yeah, that quote you brought up annoyed me. They must be expecting alot of blind faith. I've been careful about WH/WH40k video games for years (since late 90s), since games based off them are very hit or miss. When they're good, they're great fun. But it's either that or they suck balls tremendously. No in-between results.
I'm trashing WH40k DM alot these days, but I'm hoping the devs prove me wrong and give a good MMORPG as well as respect the IP and setting. The MMORPG genre could use another good non-fantasy based game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Am I the only one that felt like the questions were answered in a Politician style, IE-not answering at all.
MMORPG Interviewer "How is this certain detail of the game going to be handled?"
War40K "Well thats a very good question but I cannot discuss those details present, but let me assure you this game will be great and this game will be epic!"
= I didnt learn anything I didnt already know. What a complete waste of time.
thats actually called an NDA (non disclosure agreement) the want to release information at thier own pace... especially when the game is still 2 years off.
Warhammer 40k is not colorfull, if you have ever actually read a codex or seen a book cover or a profesionally painted figurine its detailed for sure, but if you have ever painted a tabletop figurine its not done with pastel crayons as it looks now it done with very deep colored paint, some higlights and ofcourse the secret of modelpainting, dark inks for the shading.
The artwork i have seen so far has no shading whatsoever, look at a chaos space marine figurine and they look nasty and scary not like a alice in wonderland character that the game developers have made for this, its just silly and really insulting for the tabletop fans.
indeed i have painted a gw model or 2. quite a substatial number infact. i have pritty much all the codexe's, old and new, and have read them front to back several times, aswell as having read a sizable chunk of the black library books on 40k.
of course you know this game could be designed where any sort of interaction as you have just pointed out is irrelevant.
Well you have justed summed up what people are saying about the effort vigil games have taken to the ip in this game. Irrelevant!
LOL... ok whatever, nerd rage is fun.
second, I thought Id show you the colorful tabletop of the warhammer world. go ahead, follow the links, look at all the figures. dont be shy.
Comments
Server stability and crashing were WAR's only problems?
LOL!
Are you talking about Warhammer Online? It had a slew more hardcore problems. Order being lackluster compared to Destruction. DPS uber alles. Nobody doing RvR despite the PvP emphasis of the game and everyone sitting inside of scenarios. Nobody doing Public Quests. And that's just for starters.
Maybe they fixed things by now, but those were some of the major issues when the game came out. If they did fix it, well, not as many people are there anymore.
You were talking about WAR, right? lol!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Ok I see where your going with this post. I have played my fair share of MMO's were ive spent two to three hours a time in game without even coming into contact with another player.
This usually happens three to for month after release after all the hype has passed and the die hard fanboys are the onlyones left still clinging onto the idea that somehow there going to get the problem fixed and then some how pople are going to notice that its been fixed and sub again in their droves to give the game a second chance. one thing ive notice about every release of a new game is that the player numbers that the bigwigs acount for when lanching a triple A title are usually massivly under estimated leading to servere server lag and instability. i remember Blizzard scratching their heads as to were exactly they found the several million player base that seemed to popo up out of no were. With an IP like WH40k the problem of the millions of willing players wanting to transfer their passion from the table top to the mmo game. The problem is the tech. Now I could belive that the tech issue was a Problem if there wernt allready mmo title's out there allready using the multifaction model and has and is doing successfully allready.
Man am i disappointed. Two factions? Imps + Elder + Chaos + Orcs and your telling me your story will somehow make sense with two factions?
I think they totally lost it, sorry. But what makes Warhammer 40k great is the immersion, the fact that its not about good or evil but about kicking ass. I can totally see myself playing a ork and walking up to some chaos cultist to receive my orders, yeah thats totally what being a orc is all about. Or how about a spacemarine taking orders from a elder? It made little sense in fantasy Warhammers world, but it actually makes zero sense in W40ks world. I'll bet i cant even randomly slaughter people on my side(atleast the NPCs? No? *sigh*), you might be able to play orks or eldar or space marines there but its obvious the heart of it is already dead.
Its not enough to get a little bit of fluff thrown our way in the questtexts, or have some funky differently starting zones. If you make orks play the same as chaos marines, or eldar the same as imperial guards, just with different questtexts you already lost 90% of your customers. It will be just another case of playing reskinned generalized guys, doing the same quests maybe with individualized starting zones. Makes me a bit sad.
Especially as orks would have made such an awesome 3rd faction. Its well known they outnumber both chaos and imps together, and care little for sides or causes. Why couldnt they just make them into some sort of player/npc hybrid race that more or less randomly raids whichever faction holds enough ground(or crashes the party by mixing things up in a nice 3 way battle)? The orks could have been kept in check by randomly turning different clans hostile to each other when the other factions refuse to fight them, it would have made sense and would have been very funny to watch when that ork WB that was about to crush your resistance suddenly turns on itself.
I know how the IP is set up but more than 2 faction will just not work in a 40k mmo.
People just need to think the mechanics of it and will see that in RACE based mmo only 2 factions work.
Just imagine this simple scenario of 40k mmo coming out with 2+ factions:
The general player base (not the ~5% of the mmo players that plays the tabletop and has tau/necron/dark eldar miniature armies) could turn out like this:
50% space marines (because for most people 40k = space marines)
30% chaos marines (because some want to play 'evil')
5% Ork (because some people always play ork)
5% inquisition (because they are awesome :P)
9% eldar/dark eldar/tau etc (table top players)
1% IG (lol)
You may not believe that it would turn out like that (that's only my opinion) but with separate factions it's a possibility so the game has to be designed with a scenario like that in mind.
What's gonna happen then in the server if chaos/orc and the rest have friendly fire on cause they are separate factions but the 50% space marines have friendly fire off? who would even bother playing some obscure race like dark eldar when they could never form a single raid?
Only 3 factions then? How does that fit 40k lore? The 2 factions would have to be Imperium and chaos so who would 3rd faction be out of all the above and how could they stand against 90% of the server?
Under separate factions and a distribution like the above soon the small races would beg to be able to join the big ones for raids or reroll one of those so that's practically 2 big races fighting for the server and a ton of unused PVE content at the leveling zones of the rest because no-one plays them.
So the natural solution is to group every race under 2 factions from the beggining and pray that one side doesn't get too large (also use queues etc). Nothing else works in race based games simple as that unless you want alliance/guild based warfare like eve or darkfall but that doesn't work in 40k for obvious reasons.
Just a last observation: In my opinion 2 sided RvR failed in WAR not because it had 2 factions but because the class balance and looks favoured Destruction. Since 40k doesnt have pansy elves and stupid dwarves and no clear-cut 'good' side I think it will be ok with 2 factions.
I understand the problems of over tilt on factions in rvr but the problems that you pointed out here arnt actualy solved by having just 2 factions as you will still enevitably get a tilt towards one faction or another reguardless of the number of factios available. The only simple solution to this problem is to have just one faction. There are more complex solutions for example ,low population bonuses, and npc intervetion ect. which usualy work reguardless of the number of factions implamented.
just thought id point out that your are most likely very short sighted with you 9% for table top players. I think you will find that this figue will be more in line with the space marine 50% figure. but i guess those figuers were just a meens of shwing you example.
i seem to be having a major stint on the typos today i will apologise now
SO many people making assumptions about what 2 factions in tis game means cuase other games have 2 factions. Just becuase WAR has 2 factions it doesnt mean that in DMO, you are going to be a space marine visiting the Eldar to get orders. It may mean that there is a cease fire between sides cuase thier is a greater common threat from the other. shoot, the 2 factions may not even work directly with each other, the may just have a truce which allows one faction to combat the other.
The way I would do a 2 faction ssytem is this.
Each side has truces with the race it is associated with. These truces are fragile but allow the order races to not kill eachother and concentrate on th common enemy and vice versa for the destruction side.
However, based upon certain game states and events, I would allow for the truces that are there to be broken for a short time wherein there could be combat between the factions of order and between the factions of destruction. Then after certain conditions are met, the game returns back to an icy truce between sides..
As far as the "wow this game looks like lollypop pastel" etc etc etc. Go to games workshops website, look at all the tabletop models and see how they are painted. that is GWs sanctioned LOOK for thier games. Everything is very colorful, that hasnt changed in the 23+ years I have been involved in the hobby. They, s mentioned in interviews are striving for a comon ground between the table top look and the lore and art look and I think they are achieving tat.
chaosboy walks upto da boss nd says " can we have a truse"da bos jus shouts WAAAAAAAGH! and knock ten shades of SH*@ outa da chaosboy
text appears on ork warboss screen" you cannot engage in pvp with this race at this time. resolve greater threat from imperium of man to enable pvp with this race"
The idea behind multifaction balance is that no faction can ever get bigger than all other factions combined. Thats impossible with 2 factions, but gets increasingly more likely the more factions you get. Gamemechanics and graphics aside, this worked wonderfully in DaoC. Every time one side got too powerful the other two sides got into an more or less unofficial cease fire and ganged up on the stronger one.
Also while your right insofar as human races usually end up dominating in MMOs, you ignore that with chaos and imperium we obviously have human races on both sides. Also tabletop playerbase is of little concern, its not as if only W40k fans would play such a mmo if it was wellmade. If your really worried about chaos being underrepresented just give them better racials, cooler emotes and kickass fighting animations aswell as a bunch of halfnekkid toons with boobs fighting in g-strings. Worked every time so far. Just ... not with the orks ok ... omg the visual ...
@ ;MESS14H
Warhammer 40k is not colorfull, if you have ever actually read a codex or seen a book cover or a profesionally painted figurine its detailed for sure, but if you have ever painted a tabletop figurine its not done with pastel crayons as it looks now it done with very deep colored paint, some higlights and ofcourse the secret of modelpainting, dark inks for the shading.
The artwork i have seen so far has no shading whatsoever, look at a chaos space marine figurine and they look nasty and scary not like a alice in wonderland character that the game developers have made for this, its just silly and really insulting for the tabletop fans.
LOL 2 factions only, especially in WAR 40k!
Next game plz.
go look at the games workshop models currently displayed on the games workshop site to represent thier game to their customers, then get back to me... Your vision of WH40k isnt colorful, my 23 years of experience with the hobby says otherwise... but like I said, go check out the models on the site, dont take my word for it. The disingers of this game are trying to achieve a balance between both sides.
of course you know this game could be designed where any sort of interaction as you have just pointed out is irrelevant.
Hopefully this turns out to be awesome. Surely games workshop wouldnt the second of their biggest franchises to FAIL hard like Warhammer Online did.
Black Templars are an odd choice... With them you can't stay true to lore in anyway and only have 2 factions, as black Templars will not ally with anything with psyhic powers, Tau, eldar and even Librarians.
Personally I would like them to start with 3.
Choas(chaos marines and demons), the imperium of men(Space Marines, IG, Inquistions, etc..), and the Tau(with the Koots).
But they will probably want Eldar... not sure why people like Eldar over the Tau, because the Tau are WAY cooler and have alot more options.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
indeed i have painted a gw model or 2. quite a substatial number infact. i have pritty much all the codexe's, old and new, and have read them front to back several times, aswell as having read a sizable chunk of the black library books on 40k.
of course you know this game could be designed where any sort of interaction as you have just pointed out is irrelevant.
Well you have justed summed up what people are saying about the effort vigil games have taken to the ip in this game. Irrelevant!
You can not say this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ look even remotely like the screenshots of the game. I guess its not really a W40k game just a spinoff for the kids...
And Black Templars that don't even have there weapons chained to there armor??? ROFL! yeah they have studied the lore, only not the one Games Workshop wrote...
Its gonna be a long wait
I love the 40k IP, but everytime these guys open their mouths, I die a little inside. I'm almost to the point of having no hope for this game. When they say crap like: "we know that the fans are going to love it. How could they not when Games Workshop is closely working with us on making sure that the game stays true to the lore and the IP!"
Oh well, it's a long way off.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
The reason why you will see Eldar first before some of the other races in WH40k is that they are one of the original races / factions. They have a long intricate history with the IP. I recall back in my Tabletop days there were some pretty good, hardcore Eldar players in decent quantity. Back in the Rogue Trader rulebook for WH40k, the 3 races shown prominently were: Humans, Orks, Eldar.
It's like a big multiplayer Star Trek game having the Federation and Dominion, but not the Klingons or Romulans. You'd be missing some fundamental things about the setting of the IP, because the Klingons and Romulans have long been major players in the franchise, ever since The Original Series days.
Yeah, that quote you brought up annoyed me. They must be expecting alot of blind faith. I've been careful about WH/WH40k video games for years (since late 90s), since games based off them are very hit or miss. When they're good, they're great fun. But it's either that or they suck balls tremendously. No in-between results.
I'm trashing WH40k DM alot these days, but I'm hoping the devs prove me wrong and give a good MMORPG as well as respect the IP and setting. The MMORPG genre could use another good non-fantasy based game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Am I the only one that felt like the questions were answered in a Politician style, IE-not answering at all.
MMORPG Interviewer "How is this certain detail of the game going to be handled?"
War40K "Well thats a very good question but I cannot discuss those details present, but let me assure you this game will be great and this game will be epic!"
= I didnt learn anything I didnt already know. What a complete waste of time.
thats actually called an NDA (non disclosure agreement) the want to release information at thier own pace... especially when the game is still 2 years off.
LOL... ok whatever, nerd rage is fun.
second, I thought Id show you the colorful tabletop of the warhammer world. go ahead, follow the links, look at all the figures. dont be shy.
here are the eldar elites.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440240a&rootCatGameStyle=
here are the chaos elites.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440208a&rootCatGameStyle=
Look at all those bright reds, blues, golds and oranges!!!!!!!! wow... these almost look like WoW models ;-)
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440248a&rootCatGameStyle=
even the imperial guard adorned in vibrant reds, greens and blues ?!!?