Originally posted by Chessack COH has so much content (even leaving aside the user-made stuff) that you now can't play it all on a single character on a single play-through.
Nonsense. I'm really tired of hearing this "more content" stuff.
Yes, at any given level CO only gives you 1 or 2 opportunities to kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You can choose one, the other, or do both.
CoX, otoh, gives you 10 different opportunities. Big deal. It's still kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You just have a choice of graphics, potentially.
It's just a new coat of paint on the same-old, same-old.
FWIW, I find champs missions to have a bit more oomph to them; just a touch more than click the glowie or kill all, than CoX. Not much, but occasionally something a bit more interesting.
I was in the beta for champions, reached max level a couple times, and wanted them to make a number of changes along with a large number of the community, but they never listened.
I did not buy the game on launch, but ended up buying it for 10 dollars off of steam a couple months later. I quit shortly after. About a month ago I was looking for a game to jump back into, so I resubbed to CO. I played through the game up to MI, I was amazed I got that far. The combat is just so simply 1 note. The idea is good, but the execution STILL between the melee and ranged disparity though better, still exists. PvP is and always has been a joke. You don't need a single skill after about your mid 20s depending on the skill set chosen. Endurance builders never made sense even in Beta, but its their star mechanic. The game always touted there was no auto attack, yet there was an auto attack from the first day I played the game.
The content was dreadfully shallow and the best Cryptic could do was add paid content packs within their first 6 months of launch.
I'll be the first to say CO is a good game, at least for what I paid for it. 10 Dollars, and a month of your time before you reach burn out. theres nothing to keep you going except building alts and going through the light content. Overall though the game is just unbalanced, and gets boring very quickly for anyone that chances to play it for more than an hour a day. If this game was on a console, I'd chance that I'd play it longer with my xbox live friends, but it falls dreadfully short as a long term PC title for me.
COH has so much content (even leaving aside the user-made stuff) that you now can't play it all on a single character on a single play-through.
Nonsense. I'm really tired of hearing this "more content" stuff.
Yes, at any given level CO only gives you 1 or 2 opportunities to kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You can choose one, the other, or do both.
CoX, otoh, gives you 10 different opportunities. Big deal. It's still kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You just have a choice of graphics, potentially.
It's just a new coat of paint on the same-old, same-old.
FWIW, I find champs missions to have a bit more oomph to them; just a touch more than click the glowie or kill all, than CoX. Not much, but occasionally something a bit more interesting.
-Jeff
True but some people like to read the text and like it to be a new story.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
COH has so much content (even leaving aside the user-made stuff) that you now can't play it all on a single character on a single play-through.
Nonsense. I'm really tired of hearing this "more content" stuff.
Yes, at any given level CO only gives you 1 or 2 opportunities to kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You can choose one, the other, or do both.
CoX, otoh, gives you 10 different opportunities. Big deal. It's still kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You just have a choice of graphics, potentially.
It's just a new coat of paint on the same-old, same-old.
FWIW, I find champs missions to have a bit more oomph to them; just a touch more than click the glowie or kill all, than CoX. Not much, but occasionally something a bit more interesting.
-Jeff
I play CoX, CO, Warhammer, and WoW, as well as tons of other non-MMO games, and I hear this argument a lot about CoH. People always complain it only has killing or clicking missions. My counter to this is: What does WoW have? What does any other MMO have?
Click Glowies:
CoX: Glowie clicking
WoW: Click X amount of glowies/plants/mission objects
Kill a Set Number of Enemies:
CoX: Kill X amount of this enemy in [zone name here]
WoW: Kill X amount of this enemy in [area listed here]
Kill Boss(es):
CoX: Kill Boss in this instanced map
WoW: Kill Boss(es) in this instance that is always the same every time you load it
Kill All/Tons:
CoX: Kill all enemies
WoW: Kill as many enemies as it takes to collect the desired amount of items from them
(Ok, not entirely the same, but both are kill tons of stuff until the mission says done, which could take a while)
Delivery Quests:
CoX: Go talk to contact way over in that zone to tell them something I could easily call them about
WoW: Deliver this package of bug testicles to someone who will take about 15-20 minutes to get to
Escort Quests:
CoX: Lead [character name here] out of the mission to safety (or kidnap them if you are a villain)
WoW: Lead someone out of a dangerous area to safety
My point is, all MMOs and most RPGs with any sort of quest system have the same set-up. There are only so many possible mission ideas. The only difference between WoW/CO and CoX missions is the fact that WoW and CO de-instanced all but their dungeon style missions. CoH uses mostly "door missions" or instances. The downside to instanced missions is that some people see them as repetitive, whereas in WoW they feel the missions are more different just because the paint is changed every time (instead of click glowies in a jungle, it's click glowies in a desert).
The downside to de-instanced missions is that now someone else can come and kill all the bugs around so you can't collect enough testicles, then when you finally do, you run back to the guy who wants them delivered only to find a lvl 80 rogue has killed him and you have to hide and wait for 10 minutes while the contact respawns, hoping the rogue still isn't around to kill him all over again. Then you deliver the bug testicles a half hour later.
Now think back to other RPGs, like Diablo 2. Kill bosses, kill all, collect items, talk to someone/deliver items, activate all clickable map whatsits. It's just how RPGs work. FPS games even have these, albeit fewer total: kill all, kill boss, collect items/activate glowies (in some FPS games like Bioshock), escort/save some people. FPS games tend to be lacking delivery missions, but that's still the same general set of mission objectives. What I'm trying to say is that if an MMO seems to have stale mission selection, it's only because game developers the world over have refused to take it a step farther, but really, what else CAN they ask us to do?
I did not buy the game on launch, but ended up buying it for 10 dollars off of steam a couple months later. I quit shortly after. About a month ago I was looking for a game to jump back into, so I resubbed to CO. I played through the game up to MI, I was amazed I got that far. The combat is just so simply 1 note. The idea is good, but the execution STILL between the melee and ranged disparity though better, still exists. PvP is and always has been a joke. You don't need a single skill after about your mid 20s depending on the skill set chosen. Endurance builders never made sense even in Beta, but its their star mechanic. The game always touted there was no auto attack, yet there was an auto attack from the first day I played the game.
This sounds more like the learning curve issue I mentioned in an earlier post. No offense, but if that is your impression of the game, you hadn't gotten it down yet. The combat is very similar to WoW warriors. You build up energy and expend it on better moves. Warhammer Disciples of Khane and Warrior Priests use this mechanic as well. Your energy builder is mainly used like auto-attacks, but with purpose rather than mindless weak damage to fill in the gaps between other abilities like in WoW/Warhammer. You also have other methods of building energy, be it a passive ability, bonus to another move, or especially blocking, one of the best mechanics the game added (albeit a tad clumsily). It's the only game where blocking, like attacking, is an active player choice that can be used to great effect. Learning when to block is the difference between soloing 3+ player missions and dying in standard minion fights. Blocking, unless you are a DPS build, doesn't give you energy, to keep DPS players from tanking much. Instead, their offensive moves give more energy.
My best character is a melee character. He can tank 4 other players at once, while still killing them one at a time. With the advent of the Brawler role option, which is the melee version of the Avenger (which is now ranged DPS, not just all DPS), melee people can immobilize and mez you a LOT. They also tend to get better secondary effects to their attacks. Try fighting a might character and you'll rarely be on your feet. Fight a martial artist and you'll be hard-pressed to land a solid hit with all his passive dodge/avoid bonuses. Psi-blades do unbelievable damage. Melee and range are not as imbalanced as you think. Plus, melee energy builders build more energy and do more damage, since people can run from them easier.
Also, there is such a variety of moves that combat is far more complex than most MMOs, and you never know what someone will be coming at you with because of the custom build system. It's far from one-note. The trick is to have a balance of survival methods and good attacks. Most people in PvP use teleport and self-heals a lot, but that's like being mad that someone in WoW uses stealth with their rogue while having tons of potions. It's just how PvP goes.
I did not buy the game on launch, but ended up buying it for 10 dollars off of steam a couple months later. I quit shortly after. About a month ago I was looking for a game to jump back into, so I resubbed to CO. I played through the game up to MI, I was amazed I got that far. The combat is just so simply 1 note. The idea is good, but the execution STILL between the melee and ranged disparity though better, still exists. PvP is and always has been a joke. You don't need a single skill after about your mid 20s depending on the skill set chosen. Endurance builders never made sense even in Beta, but its their star mechanic. The game always touted there was no auto attack, yet there was an auto attack from the first day I played the game.
This sounds more like the learning curve issue I mentioned in an earlier post. No offense, but if that is your impression of the game, you hadn't gotten it down yet. The combat is very similar to WoW warriors. You build up energy and expend it on better moves. Warhammer Disciples of Khane and Warrior Priests use this mechanic as well. Your energy builder is mainly used like auto-attacks, but with purpose rather than mindless weak damage to fill in the gaps between other abilities like in WoW/Warhammer. You also have other methods of building energy, be it a passive ability, bonus to another move, or especially blocking, one of the best mechanics the game added (albeit a tad clumsily). It's the only game where blocking, like attacking, is an active player choice that can be used to great effect. Learning when to block is the difference between soloing 3+ player missions and dying in standard minion fights. Blocking, unless you are a DPS build, doesn't give you energy, to keep DPS players from tanking much. Instead, their offensive moves give more energy.
My best character is a melee character. He can tank 4 other players at once, while still killing them one at a time. With the advent of the Brawler role option, which is the melee version of the Avenger (which is now ranged DPS, not just all DPS), melee people can immobilize and mez you a LOT. They also tend to get better secondary effects to their attacks. Try fighting a might character and you'll rarely be on your feet. Fight a martial artist and you'll be hard-pressed to land a solid hit with all his passive dodge/avoid bonuses. Psi-blades do unbelievable damage. Melee and range are not as imbalanced as you think. Plus, melee energy builders build more energy and do more damage, since people can run from them easier.
Also, there is such a variety of moves that combat is far more complex than most MMOs, and you never know what someone will be coming at you with because of the custom build system. It's far from one-note. The trick is to have a balance of survival methods and good attacks. Most people in PvP use teleport and self-heals a lot, but that's like being mad that someone in WoW uses stealth with their rogue while having tons of potions. It's just how PvP goes.
Yeah, the complexity is what keeps me playing. had a good laugh with a friend that dueled me the other day. We were all basically sitting around in an impromptu fight club, some switching toons. He saw me duel someone (where we just had a melee wack a mole) and then challenged me. After I two shotted him out of the sky from 80 feet or so, he said "lol I thought you were a might toon and I could just range you." Its very easy to be a 2 or 5 trick pony.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
COH has so much content (even leaving aside the user-made stuff) that you now can't play it all on a single character on a single play-through.
Nonsense. I'm really tired of hearing this "more content" stuff.
Yes, at any given level CO only gives you 1 or 2 opportunities to kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You can choose one, the other, or do both.
CoX, otoh, gives you 10 different opportunities. Big deal. It's still kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You just have a choice of graphics, potentially.
It's just a new coat of paint on the same-old, same-old.
FWIW, I find champs missions to have a bit more oomph to them; just a touch more than click the glowie or kill all, than CoX. Not much, but occasionally something a bit more interesting.
-Jeff
I play CoX, CO, Warhammer, and WoW, as well as tons of other non-MMO games, and I hear this argument a lot about CoH. People always complain it only has killing or clicking missions. My counter to this is: What does WoW have? What does any other MMO have?
Click Glowies:
CoX: Glowie clicking
WoW: Click X amount of glowies/plants/mission objects
Kill a Set Number of Enemies:
CoX: Kill X amount of this enemy in [zone name here]
WoW: Kill X amount of this enemy in [area listed here]
Kill Boss(es):
CoX: Kill Boss in this instanced map
WoW: Kill Boss(es) in this instance that is always the same every time you load it
Kill All/Tons:
CoX: Kill all enemies
WoW: Kill as many enemies as it takes to collect the desired amount of items from them
(Ok, not entirely the same, but both are kill tons of stuff until the mission says done, which could take a while)
Delivery Quests:
CoX: Go talk to contact way over in that zone to tell them something I could easily call them about
WoW: Deliver this package of bug testicles to someone who will take about 15-20 minutes to get to
Escort Quests:
CoX: Lead [character name here] out of the mission to safety (or kidnap them if you are a villain)
WoW: Lead someone out of a dangerous area to safety
My point is, all MMOs and most RPGs with any sort of quest system have the same set-up. There are only so many possible mission ideas. The only difference between WoW/CO and CoX missions is the fact that WoW and CO de-instanced all but their dungeon style missions. CoH uses mostly "door missions" or instances. The downside to instanced missions is that some people see them as repetitive, whereas in WoW they feel the missions are more different just because the paint is changed every time (instead of click glowies in a jungle, it's click glowies in a desert).
The downside to de-instanced missions is that now someone else can come and kill all the bugs around so you can't collect enough testicles, then when you finally do, you run back to the guy who wants them delivered only to find a lvl 80 rogue has killed him and you have to hide and wait for 10 minutes while the contact respawns, hoping the rogue still isn't around to kill him all over again. Then you deliver the bug testicles a half hour later.
Now think back to other RPGs, like Diablo 2. Kill bosses, kill all, collect items, talk to someone/deliver items, activate all clickable map whatsits. It's just how RPGs work. FPS games even have these, albeit fewer total: kill all, kill boss, collect items/activate glowies (in some FPS games like Bioshock), escort/save some people. FPS games tend to be lacking delivery missions, but that's still the same general set of mission objectives. What I'm trying to say is that if an MMO seems to have stale mission selection, it's only because game developers the world over have refused to take it a step farther, but really, what else CAN they ask us to do?
So fundementally you are correct. If you are player who runs from mission to mission to rush to level cap this is all very true. The difference is in the lore and dialogue. Both CO and COX have good story lines. If you read the missions for CO they are well done and have lots of funny pop culture references, etc. I mean, until something revolutionary happens you can only slice and dice fantasy/ Super hero MMOs so many ways.
I do think the fast paced combat in CO is more appealing TO ME than the tactical (you go, then I go) slower paced combat of COX.
My point is, all MMOs and most RPGs with any sort of quest system have the same set-up. There are only so many possible mission ideas. The only difference between WoW/CO and CoX missions is the fact that WoW and CO de-instanced all but their dungeon style missions. CoH uses mostly "door missions" or instances. The downside to instanced missions is that some people see them as repetitive, whereas in WoW they feel the missions are more different just because the paint is changed every time (instead of click glowies in a jungle, it's click glowies in a desert).
It's about the "metagame". Not sure what the real word is.
In WoW and most other games of its ilk, it's not the text or the glowies you click, it's about raids, solving puzzles, and getting better gear to show for it. Note that the "puzzles" are not rubick's cubes and such, they are figuring out socially and tactically how to conquer ever more increasing challenges in the raid environment. How do you get the right mix of people on your team? How do you get them geared so they can all participate? How do you share the spoils? How do you beat this particular boss with this choice of players?
That's not my personal cup of tea, but I appreciate the depth of that game. It can be engrossing and fun for those who get involved. At that point, the fresh coats of paint do make a difference, but it's the icing, not the cake. Other game have other end-games (e.g. eve, DAoC). I won't go into depth because most readers know them, but those PvP endgames were successful as well (and still are, to some degree).
So the problem with CoX and CO is not that one has a few extra story lines. That's not a big deal. The problem is that neither game has much of a metagame, so they rely entirely on their gameplay and customization (both powers and costumes) to sell.
Finally, please don't read me as a "hater". I had fun with CoX, and I'm having fun with CO right now. But a bit of extra text to read and a few extra graphics really isn't that big of a deal. Until there's more purpose, it's just more repetition.
I did not buy the game on launch, but ended up buying it for 10 dollars off of steam a couple months later. I quit shortly after. About a month ago I was looking for a game to jump back into, so I resubbed to CO. I played through the game up to MI, I was amazed I got that far. The combat is just so simply 1 note. The idea is good, but the execution STILL between the melee and ranged disparity though better, still exists. PvP is and always has been a joke. You don't need a single skill after about your mid 20s depending on the skill set chosen. Endurance builders never made sense even in Beta, but its their star mechanic. The game always touted there was no auto attack, yet there was an auto attack from the first day I played the game.
This sounds more like the learning curve issue I mentioned in an earlier post. No offense, but if that is your impression of the game, you hadn't gotten it down yet. The combat is very similar to WoW warriors. You build up energy and expend it on better moves. Warhammer Disciples of Khane and Warrior Priests use this mechanic as well. Your energy builder is mainly used like auto-attacks, but with purpose rather than mindless weak damage to fill in the gaps between other abilities like in WoW/Warhammer. You also have other methods of building energy, be it a passive ability, bonus to another move, or especially blocking, one of the best mechanics the game added (albeit a tad clumsily). It's the only game where blocking, like attacking, is an active player choice that can be used to great effect. Learning when to block is the difference between soloing 3+ player missions and dying in standard minion fights. Blocking, unless you are a DPS build, doesn't give you energy, to keep DPS players from tanking much. Instead, their offensive moves give more energy.
My best character is a melee character. He can tank 4 other players at once, while still killing them one at a time. With the advent of the Brawler role option, which is the melee version of the Avenger (which is now ranged DPS, not just all DPS), melee people can immobilize and mez you a LOT. They also tend to get better secondary effects to their attacks. Try fighting a might character and you'll rarely be on your feet. Fight a martial artist and you'll be hard-pressed to land a solid hit with all his passive dodge/avoid bonuses. Psi-blades do unbelievable damage. Melee and range are not as imbalanced as you think. Plus, melee energy builders build more energy and do more damage, since people can run from them easier.
Also, there is such a variety of moves that combat is far more complex than most MMOs, and you never know what someone will be coming at you with because of the custom build system. It's far from one-note. The trick is to have a balance of survival methods and good attacks. Most people in PvP use teleport and self-heals a lot, but that's like being mad that someone in WoW uses stealth with their rogue while having tons of potions. It's just how PvP goes.
The main difference between characters like the WP and WH was that you still had skills you COULD use before your end builder, and it didn't disappear just seconds after the battle was over. The whole endurance system is flawed. You get many great skills, but most of them you don't get to start out with, you get to peg at them with a measly end builder first.
Eventually with many classes you can remove the end builder, but its just rinse and repeat. The travel powers are great because they're varied, but some of them just aren't prudent for some of the areas, and even worse for PvP - especially at the lower levels. Melee and Ranged balance has gotten "better" but its only because they had to change the game drastically with their new melee rage or whatever they call it, technique. Cryptic has been spending a lot of time trying to balance the skills, but its worthless to even try with their cherry picking system. They should have created a solely PvE game, then try and balance PvP and change the powers the way they did.
I bet I could hop in to PvP even now and see at least a few FOTM builds with players utlizing specific combinations that increase their chance of success 10 fold.
In the end it doesn't matter, the game is very one-note. You have tap attacks, charged attacks, single shot, and aoe, and everything else is minor variations of knockback, heal, DoT. You end up just spamming whatever one works for your situation in PvE, and that leaves you with only needing a few attacks and a passive. Everything else is pretty much fluff that looks different to accomplish the same thing. Cherry picking powers sounded like a great idea, until they realized people wanted some sort of balance, and they had just thrown it out the window. They've been trying to fix it ever since. If the combat didn't get so boring after a couple weeks, I may even continue resubbing every now and then, but the last time I resubbed I barely logged in at all after the first week.
The learning curve on this game is next to nil once you learn the ebb and flow of the end builder or your "classes" substitution for it. Everything else just gets tedious. The game is great for first timers or casuals that are looking for a PvE experience with more "action oriented" combat. It holds no sway in the mainstream MMO market. CoH runs circles around it as far as longevity and content is concerned, with its major difference being the combat, and the dated graphics.
We'll see what happens when DCUO launches, but I have a feeling CO won't suddenly get a resurgence of players.
I understand where you are coming from; a lot of people I know had the same complaints about the game, but one of the problems with designing a game for PvE first, then developing PvP is what City of Heroes had issues with when introducing City of Villains. Powers designed and balanced for PvE never work out well unless you immediately start the game from a PvP PLUS PvE standpoint. There were massive nerfs across the board when CoV was in beta and when it went live. I remember all the Issue 5 changes that had tanks screaming bloody murder, namely the fire tank changes. I remember how most of the power sets made fresh for CoV were simply designed better, and the classes were more balanced and capable of soloing. This is because CoV was made after PvP content was tested with the arena. They needed to see how their powers worked out in a PvP environment, and the answer was "not that well". So nerf after nerf, and one change after another eventually ended up with all kinds of changes, many of which ticked off the original fans. For a game to succeed at PvP, it has to be built in from the ground up. Otherwise you are left with the Statesman's ever famous philosophy: "Sorry, but the game was never designed to do that." (kinda glad he left for Cryptic so that Positron could take over, lol).
I hope I didn't sound like I was calling you a noob at the game or anything, because I realize looking back "lack of experience" kinda sounded like bad wording on my part. What I was getting at is that the free-form nature of character building, and the unique stat system, meant that some stuff just doesn't work together. A tank with heals is rarely all that effective, and a crit-heavy tank (Constitution/Dexterity) would be a terrible choice for the Regeneration passive. Getting the hang of what powers go with what stats, so that you mix power sets effectively, as well as learning how to maximize the potential of your stats while still surviving/dealing damage took a little while for most players. I remember my first 2 characters sucked miserably, lol, but one day it just clicked, and I made one of the best tanks ever, and actually can kill very effectively. He wasn't a FotM build, and was completely concept driven instead of formed around game mechanics. All of his moves are simply parts of his story, and I meshed them in great with his stats and powers, and made a truly impressive and fun character. Not everyone stuck with the game long enough to actually get to that point where they fully grasp it's mechanics, and that's where a lot of the hate comes from. Not all, but a lot. Most people I know who hate WoW quit before level 10, when they would actually get the powers that make them feel like their class, so again, it's just that not everyone got to experience the game at it's finest and gave up too fast.
My point is, all MMOs and most RPGs with any sort of quest system have the same set-up. There are only so many possible mission ideas. The only difference between WoW/CO and CoX missions is the fact that WoW and CO de-instanced all but their dungeon style missions. CoH uses mostly "door missions" or instances. The downside to instanced missions is that some people see them as repetitive, whereas in WoW they feel the missions are more different just because the paint is changed every time (instead of click glowies in a jungle, it's click glowies in a desert).
It's about the "metagame". Not sure what the real word is.
In WoW and most other games of its ilk, it's not the text or the glowies you click, it's about raids, solving puzzles, and getting better gear to show for it. Note that the "puzzles" are not rubick's cubes and such, they are figuring out socially and tactically how to conquer ever more increasing challenges in the raid environment. How do you get the right mix of people on your team? How do you get them geared so they can all participate? How do you share the spoils? How do you beat this particular boss with this choice of players?
That's not my personal cup of tea, but I appreciate the depth of that game. It can be engrossing and fun for those who get involved. At that point, the fresh coats of paint do make a difference, but it's the icing, not the cake.
Other game have other end-games (e.g. eve, DAoC). I won't go into depth because most readers know them, but those PvP endgames were successful as well (and still are, to some degree).
So the problem with CoX and CO is not that one has a few extra story lines. That's not a big deal. The problem is that neither game has much of a metagame, so they rely entirely on their gameplay and customization (both powers and costumes) to sell.
Finally, please don't read me as a "hater". I had fun with CoX, and I'm having fun with CO right now. But a bit of extra text to read and a few extra graphics really isn't that big of a deal. Until there's more purpose, it's just more repetition.
-Jeff
I see your point, late game raids kinda are lacking in the hero games so far, lol. The thing is, I was more interested in the journey than the stuff I could do when I got to the destination. Raid players love end-game content, and for me it's kinda just a rat race to scrape up new gear that will make me leaps and bounds better than anyone else who doesn't have it too. That bores me. I prefer the actual level-up process. I'm an altaholic and proud of it. I would rather take a lvl 30 to 35 in a few hours than spend that time trying to get a new pair of underwear for my lvl 80 or something, heh. That's why I like games like Champions and City of Heroes. They give you lots of options and customization so that I will never be short of a character to level up. It's that feeling of acheivement at getting my next power, and looking forward to the next one, that keeps me playing these games, and end-game content is where all that ends for me.
To those who love it, that's great. To each their own, but I just never could get into it much.
I understand where you are coming from; a lot of people I know had the same complaints about the game, but one of the problems with designing a game for PvE first, then developing PvP is what City of Heroes had issues with when introducing City of Villains. Powers designed and balanced for PvE never work out well unless you immediately start the game from a PvP PLUS PvE standpoint. There were massive nerfs across the board when CoV was in beta and when it went live. I remember all the Issue 5 changes that had tanks screaming bloody murder, namely the fire tank changes. I remember how most of the power sets made fresh for CoV were simply designed better, and the classes were more balanced and capable of soloing. This is because CoV was made after PvP content was tested with the arena. They needed to see how their powers worked out in a PvP environment, and the answer was "not that well". So nerf after nerf, and one change after another eventually ended up with all kinds of changes, many of which ticked off the original fans. For a game to succeed at PvP, it has to be built in from the ground up. Otherwise you are left with the Statesman's ever famous philosophy: "Sorry, but the game was never designed to do that." (kinda glad he left for Cryptic so that Positron could take over, lol).
I hope I didn't sound like I was calling you a noob at the game or anything, because I realize looking back "lack of experience" kinda sounded like bad wording on my part. What I was getting at is that the free-form nature of character building, and the unique stat system, meant that some stuff just doesn't work together. A tank with heals is rarely all that effective, and a crit-heavy tank (Constitution/Dexterity) would be a terrible choice for the Regeneration passive. Getting the hang of what powers go with what stats, so that you mix power sets effectively, as well as learning how to maximize the potential of your stats while still surviving/dealing damage took a little while for most players. I remember my first 2 characters sucked miserably, lol, but one day it just clicked, and I made one of the best tanks ever, and actually can kill very effectively. He wasn't a FotM build, and was completely concept driven instead of formed around game mechanics. All of his moves are simply parts of his story, and I meshed them in great with his stats and powers, and made a truly impressive and fun character. Not everyone stuck with the game long enough to actually get to that point where they fully grasp it's mechanics, and that's where a lot of the hate comes from. Not all, but a lot. Most people I know who hate WoW quit before level 10, when they would actually get the powers that make them feel like their class, so again, it's just that not everyone got to experience the game at it's finest and gave up too fast.
I envy that you can look at the game from that point of view. You have to also understand that I played through the game in its entirety twice before the game even launched, I know easily then what i liked and what I didn't. The game was fun those first two times around, so I didn't buy it on launch and waited. When I saw the price drop I jumped on it, but it was the same game for the most part.
As much as I enjoyed it, it didn't have the staying power.. and the issues I felt brought down my enjoyment was still there. I wish there was just more variety in content and combat styles. I did notice they added some new builds, and split up supernatural, its just, not enough to bring me back yet. If they could get things moving before DCUO I might check it out once more, but I just don't see myself coming back otherwise.
For myself CO was fun for a time. But then it got boring fast to the lack of players wanted to team. You can only solo so long before you start saying not this boring stuff again and or will I ever make it to the max level and show off my stuff to others.
I personaly never saw the point of being in a MMO game where not one wants to team or work together for a common goal i.e. leveling.
I am going to cancel my account when DCUO opens up.
For myself CO was fun for a time. But then it got boring fast to the lack of players wanted to team. You can only solo so long before you start saying not this boring stuff again and or will I ever make it to the max level and show off my stuff to others.
I personaly never saw the point of being in a MMO game where not one wants to team or work together for a common goal i.e. leveling.
I am going to cancel my account when DCUO opens up.
This is one of the reasons I tend not to play CO often. I love the game, but no one I know plays it, and no one who plays it teams. :-/ Why even play an MMO if you aren't being all... you know... multiplayer-ish... Frankly, I think playing with other players is most of the purpose of online gaming, otherwise why even make the game an MMO? Just make it a single-player RPG. I think the game is great, but lacks the teaming environment of CoX.
I don't hate on Chmapions Online other thna the cryptic store BS....I in fact see a game with good potential that will enver recieve the love from it's developers to deliver ont hat potential because they sold themselves to Atari on th eprinciple of churning out games fast and cheap not running a MMORPG well after launch and are busy living up to their contract.
I resubbed about a week ago, was waiting on DCUO. And thought I'd try CO again, since it's the same genre. I also tried it from launch, but didn't like it. Got repetitive and boring pretty fast.
But guess what? Now I'm having a blast. The game is pretty boring at the start, because they want you to learn the game. And as soon as you "get it", it gets boring. But I leveled a few to ~20 now. And find it pretty fun. I just tried the Serpent Lantern instance, first boss. And it was fun and amazing, except that I dunno how to tank yet, I just stacked constitution(but I found out I guess I need presence as well) and went for it. Our group started out as three. Two DPS/tankish, last more DPSish.
This is one of the reasons I tend not to play CO often. I love the game, but no one I know plays it, and no one who plays it teams. :-/ Why even play an MMO if you aren't being all... you know... multiplayer-ish... Frankly, I think playing with other players is most of the purpose of online gaming, otherwise why even make the game an MMO? Just make it a single-player RPG. I think the game is great, but lacks the teaming environment of CoX.
Yeah this. CoX had a certain addictive quality because teaming, even easy PUG-ing, was just a lot of fun. Even though the map layouts were repetitive, it didn't really matter much. CO lacks that addictive quality. The biggest ball they dropped was the teaming ball - especially considering they had a whole potential audience of bored CoX-ers to attract.
But, I do keep coming back to CO. If you like superheroes, CO does have its charms. And the open build system is unique and fun to play around with - hunting for out of the way cool synergies and combinations of powers is in itself somewhat addictive.
And actually the graphics are pretty good maxed out, and if you like goofing off pretending to be a superhero, the "clutter" gives an overall immersive and "full" feel to the world.
I do think that the big problem with superhero MMOs is that no matter how much content and size of world devs put in, people are always going to piss and moan that the game doesn't have enough content or feels "small" - simply because a superhero MMO has to have travel powers from fairly early on. Fantasy MMOs make you work for fast travel, and that's the reason why - you grow into the game thinking the world is "big" because you've been yomping around it on foot for about a third or half of the levelling process. There was an argument recently on the CO forums about the size of the Millennium City zone, and some people saying it's tiny compared to WoW. I pointed out that you can run from Alterac to Stranglethorn in around 20 mins, someone else has run across Kalimdor in 18 mins. Someone on the forum pointed out that you can run across Millennium City in 15 mins - so yeay, WoW "continents" are a bit bigger than CO "zones", but the difference isn't like night and day, as you'd imagine from the way people talk about it. A lot of it is just psychological (similar for "lack of quests" - it's only because you can zip so quickly from quest to quest that there seem to be less of them, actually CO is somewhat content-light, but isn't all that content-light).
Ok...When Champions Online first came out of Beta And went Live...I was tottally Against it 100% cause I thought Cryptic was messin up and wasnt on accedent either....But then I had friends say to me that the game got better and Cryptic actually took time and listened to what people want and did it in Champions. Well of corse I told them No way...Didnt happen....But.....Then I went home and tried it...And i have to say..I have changed my whole opinion On Cryptic and the Champions Online MMORPG...I got back on and to my suprise it was 100% better than what it was right after the Live release...I know people Will say mean things here about this post but I rather dont care cause I see it for myself....I just wondered why people still have the Hate for the game?? Cause it has changed for the better and that tells me Cryptic is trying to work with the Gamers....
Did I miss something recently? Since when did they change english punctuation rules to change the period into '....'
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Comments
Nonsense. I'm really tired of hearing this "more content" stuff.
Yes, at any given level CO only gives you 1 or 2 opportunities to kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You can choose one, the other, or do both.
CoX, otoh, gives you 10 different opportunities. Big deal. It's still kill the boss, kill all, or click 5 glowies. You just have a choice of graphics, potentially.
It's just a new coat of paint on the same-old, same-old.
FWIW, I find champs missions to have a bit more oomph to them; just a touch more than click the glowie or kill all, than CoX. Not much, but occasionally something a bit more interesting.
-Jeff
I was in the beta for champions, reached max level a couple times, and wanted them to make a number of changes along with a large number of the community, but they never listened.
I did not buy the game on launch, but ended up buying it for 10 dollars off of steam a couple months later. I quit shortly after. About a month ago I was looking for a game to jump back into, so I resubbed to CO. I played through the game up to MI, I was amazed I got that far. The combat is just so simply 1 note. The idea is good, but the execution STILL between the melee and ranged disparity though better, still exists. PvP is and always has been a joke. You don't need a single skill after about your mid 20s depending on the skill set chosen. Endurance builders never made sense even in Beta, but its their star mechanic. The game always touted there was no auto attack, yet there was an auto attack from the first day I played the game.
The content was dreadfully shallow and the best Cryptic could do was add paid content packs within their first 6 months of launch.
I'll be the first to say CO is a good game, at least for what I paid for it. 10 Dollars, and a month of your time before you reach burn out. theres nothing to keep you going except building alts and going through the light content. Overall though the game is just unbalanced, and gets boring very quickly for anyone that chances to play it for more than an hour a day. If this game was on a console, I'd chance that I'd play it longer with my xbox live friends, but it falls dreadfully short as a long term PC title for me.
True but some people like to read the text and like it to be a new story.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I play CoX, CO, Warhammer, and WoW, as well as tons of other non-MMO games, and I hear this argument a lot about CoH. People always complain it only has killing or clicking missions. My counter to this is: What does WoW have? What does any other MMO have?
Click Glowies:
CoX: Glowie clicking
WoW: Click X amount of glowies/plants/mission objects
Kill a Set Number of Enemies:
CoX: Kill X amount of this enemy in [zone name here]
WoW: Kill X amount of this enemy in [area listed here]
Kill Boss(es):
CoX: Kill Boss in this instanced map
WoW: Kill Boss(es) in this instance that is always the same every time you load it
Kill All/Tons:
CoX: Kill all enemies
WoW: Kill as many enemies as it takes to collect the desired amount of items from them
(Ok, not entirely the same, but both are kill tons of stuff until the mission says done, which could take a while)
Delivery Quests:
CoX: Go talk to contact way over in that zone to tell them something I could easily call them about
WoW: Deliver this package of bug testicles to someone who will take about 15-20 minutes to get to
Escort Quests:
CoX: Lead [character name here] out of the mission to safety (or kidnap them if you are a villain)
WoW: Lead someone out of a dangerous area to safety
My point is, all MMOs and most RPGs with any sort of quest system have the same set-up. There are only so many possible mission ideas. The only difference between WoW/CO and CoX missions is the fact that WoW and CO de-instanced all but their dungeon style missions. CoH uses mostly "door missions" or instances. The downside to instanced missions is that some people see them as repetitive, whereas in WoW they feel the missions are more different just because the paint is changed every time (instead of click glowies in a jungle, it's click glowies in a desert).
The downside to de-instanced missions is that now someone else can come and kill all the bugs around so you can't collect enough testicles, then when you finally do, you run back to the guy who wants them delivered only to find a lvl 80 rogue has killed him and you have to hide and wait for 10 minutes while the contact respawns, hoping the rogue still isn't around to kill him all over again. Then you deliver the bug testicles a half hour later.
Now think back to other RPGs, like Diablo 2. Kill bosses, kill all, collect items, talk to someone/deliver items, activate all clickable map whatsits. It's just how RPGs work. FPS games even have these, albeit fewer total: kill all, kill boss, collect items/activate glowies (in some FPS games like Bioshock), escort/save some people. FPS games tend to be lacking delivery missions, but that's still the same general set of mission objectives. What I'm trying to say is that if an MMO seems to have stale mission selection, it's only because game developers the world over have refused to take it a step farther, but really, what else CAN they ask us to do?
This sounds more like the learning curve issue I mentioned in an earlier post. No offense, but if that is your impression of the game, you hadn't gotten it down yet. The combat is very similar to WoW warriors. You build up energy and expend it on better moves. Warhammer Disciples of Khane and Warrior Priests use this mechanic as well. Your energy builder is mainly used like auto-attacks, but with purpose rather than mindless weak damage to fill in the gaps between other abilities like in WoW/Warhammer. You also have other methods of building energy, be it a passive ability, bonus to another move, or especially blocking, one of the best mechanics the game added (albeit a tad clumsily). It's the only game where blocking, like attacking, is an active player choice that can be used to great effect. Learning when to block is the difference between soloing 3+ player missions and dying in standard minion fights. Blocking, unless you are a DPS build, doesn't give you energy, to keep DPS players from tanking much. Instead, their offensive moves give more energy.
My best character is a melee character. He can tank 4 other players at once, while still killing them one at a time. With the advent of the Brawler role option, which is the melee version of the Avenger (which is now ranged DPS, not just all DPS), melee people can immobilize and mez you a LOT. They also tend to get better secondary effects to their attacks. Try fighting a might character and you'll rarely be on your feet. Fight a martial artist and you'll be hard-pressed to land a solid hit with all his passive dodge/avoid bonuses. Psi-blades do unbelievable damage. Melee and range are not as imbalanced as you think. Plus, melee energy builders build more energy and do more damage, since people can run from them easier.
Also, there is such a variety of moves that combat is far more complex than most MMOs, and you never know what someone will be coming at you with because of the custom build system. It's far from one-note. The trick is to have a balance of survival methods and good attacks. Most people in PvP use teleport and self-heals a lot, but that's like being mad that someone in WoW uses stealth with their rogue while having tons of potions. It's just how PvP goes.
Yeah, the complexity is what keeps me playing. had a good laugh with a friend that dueled me the other day. We were all basically sitting around in an impromptu fight club, some switching toons. He saw me duel someone (where we just had a melee wack a mole) and then challenged me. After I two shotted him out of the sky from 80 feet or so, he said "lol I thought you were a might toon and I could just range you." Its very easy to be a 2 or 5 trick pony.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
So fundementally you are correct. If you are player who runs from mission to mission to rush to level cap this is all very true. The difference is in the lore and dialogue. Both CO and COX have good story lines. If you read the missions for CO they are well done and have lots of funny pop culture references, etc. I mean, until something revolutionary happens you can only slice and dice fantasy/ Super hero MMOs so many ways.
I do think the fast paced combat in CO is more appealing TO ME than the tactical (you go, then I go) slower paced combat of COX.
It's about the "metagame". Not sure what the real word is.
In WoW and most other games of its ilk, it's not the text or the glowies you click, it's about raids, solving puzzles, and getting better gear to show for it. Note that the "puzzles" are not rubick's cubes and such, they are figuring out socially and tactically how to conquer ever more increasing challenges in the raid environment. How do you get the right mix of people on your team? How do you get them geared so they can all participate? How do you share the spoils? How do you beat this particular boss with this choice of players?
That's not my personal cup of tea, but I appreciate the depth of that game. It can be engrossing and fun for those who get involved. At that point, the fresh coats of paint do make a difference, but it's the icing, not the cake.
Other game have other end-games (e.g. eve, DAoC). I won't go into depth because most readers know them, but those PvP endgames were successful as well (and still are, to some degree).
So the problem with CoX and CO is not that one has a few extra story lines. That's not a big deal. The problem is that neither game has much of a metagame, so they rely entirely on their gameplay and customization (both powers and costumes) to sell.
Finally, please don't read me as a "hater". I had fun with CoX, and I'm having fun with CO right now. But a bit of extra text to read and a few extra graphics really isn't that big of a deal. Until there's more purpose, it's just more repetition.
-Jeff
I had it down before most people even played the game. Its not hard to grasp. Read my initial review of champions once the NDA was lifted http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/247702/A-Beta-Review-for-New-Players-Warning-Long.html
The main difference between characters like the WP and WH was that you still had skills you COULD use before your end builder, and it didn't disappear just seconds after the battle was over. The whole endurance system is flawed. You get many great skills, but most of them you don't get to start out with, you get to peg at them with a measly end builder first.
Eventually with many classes you can remove the end builder, but its just rinse and repeat. The travel powers are great because they're varied, but some of them just aren't prudent for some of the areas, and even worse for PvP - especially at the lower levels. Melee and Ranged balance has gotten "better" but its only because they had to change the game drastically with their new melee rage or whatever they call it, technique. Cryptic has been spending a lot of time trying to balance the skills, but its worthless to even try with their cherry picking system. They should have created a solely PvE game, then try and balance PvP and change the powers the way they did.
I bet I could hop in to PvP even now and see at least a few FOTM builds with players utlizing specific combinations that increase their chance of success 10 fold.
In the end it doesn't matter, the game is very one-note. You have tap attacks, charged attacks, single shot, and aoe, and everything else is minor variations of knockback, heal, DoT. You end up just spamming whatever one works for your situation in PvE, and that leaves you with only needing a few attacks and a passive. Everything else is pretty much fluff that looks different to accomplish the same thing. Cherry picking powers sounded like a great idea, until they realized people wanted some sort of balance, and they had just thrown it out the window. They've been trying to fix it ever since. If the combat didn't get so boring after a couple weeks, I may even continue resubbing every now and then, but the last time I resubbed I barely logged in at all after the first week.
The learning curve on this game is next to nil once you learn the ebb and flow of the end builder or your "classes" substitution for it. Everything else just gets tedious. The game is great for first timers or casuals that are looking for a PvE experience with more "action oriented" combat. It holds no sway in the mainstream MMO market. CoH runs circles around it as far as longevity and content is concerned, with its major difference being the combat, and the dated graphics.
We'll see what happens when DCUO launches, but I have a feeling CO won't suddenly get a resurgence of players.
I understand where you are coming from; a lot of people I know had the same complaints about the game, but one of the problems with designing a game for PvE first, then developing PvP is what City of Heroes had issues with when introducing City of Villains. Powers designed and balanced for PvE never work out well unless you immediately start the game from a PvP PLUS PvE standpoint. There were massive nerfs across the board when CoV was in beta and when it went live. I remember all the Issue 5 changes that had tanks screaming bloody murder, namely the fire tank changes. I remember how most of the power sets made fresh for CoV were simply designed better, and the classes were more balanced and capable of soloing. This is because CoV was made after PvP content was tested with the arena. They needed to see how their powers worked out in a PvP environment, and the answer was "not that well". So nerf after nerf, and one change after another eventually ended up with all kinds of changes, many of which ticked off the original fans. For a game to succeed at PvP, it has to be built in from the ground up. Otherwise you are left with the Statesman's ever famous philosophy: "Sorry, but the game was never designed to do that." (kinda glad he left for Cryptic so that Positron could take over, lol).
I hope I didn't sound like I was calling you a noob at the game or anything, because I realize looking back "lack of experience" kinda sounded like bad wording on my part. What I was getting at is that the free-form nature of character building, and the unique stat system, meant that some stuff just doesn't work together. A tank with heals is rarely all that effective, and a crit-heavy tank (Constitution/Dexterity) would be a terrible choice for the Regeneration passive. Getting the hang of what powers go with what stats, so that you mix power sets effectively, as well as learning how to maximize the potential of your stats while still surviving/dealing damage took a little while for most players. I remember my first 2 characters sucked miserably, lol, but one day it just clicked, and I made one of the best tanks ever, and actually can kill very effectively. He wasn't a FotM build, and was completely concept driven instead of formed around game mechanics. All of his moves are simply parts of his story, and I meshed them in great with his stats and powers, and made a truly impressive and fun character. Not everyone stuck with the game long enough to actually get to that point where they fully grasp it's mechanics, and that's where a lot of the hate comes from. Not all, but a lot. Most people I know who hate WoW quit before level 10, when they would actually get the powers that make them feel like their class, so again, it's just that not everyone got to experience the game at it's finest and gave up too fast.
I see your point, late game raids kinda are lacking in the hero games so far, lol. The thing is, I was more interested in the journey than the stuff I could do when I got to the destination. Raid players love end-game content, and for me it's kinda just a rat race to scrape up new gear that will make me leaps and bounds better than anyone else who doesn't have it too. That bores me. I prefer the actual level-up process. I'm an altaholic and proud of it. I would rather take a lvl 30 to 35 in a few hours than spend that time trying to get a new pair of underwear for my lvl 80 or something, heh.
That's why I like games like Champions and City of Heroes. They give you lots of options and customization so that I will never be short of a character to level up. It's that feeling of acheivement at getting my next power, and looking forward to the next one, that keeps me playing these games, and end-game content is where all that ends for me.
To those who love it, that's great.
To each their own, but I just never could get into it much.
I envy that you can look at the game from that point of view. You have to also understand that I played through the game in its entirety twice before the game even launched, I know easily then what i liked and what I didn't. The game was fun those first two times around, so I didn't buy it on launch and waited. When I saw the price drop I jumped on it, but it was the same game for the most part.
As much as I enjoyed it, it didn't have the staying power.. and the issues I felt brought down my enjoyment was still there. I wish there was just more variety in content and combat styles. I did notice they added some new builds, and split up supernatural, its just, not enough to bring me back yet. If they could get things moving before DCUO I might check it out once more, but I just don't see myself coming back otherwise.
For myself CO was fun for a time. But then it got boring fast to the lack of players wanted to team. You can only solo so long before you start saying not this boring stuff again and or will I ever make it to the max level and show off my stuff to others.
I personaly never saw the point of being in a MMO game where not one wants to team or work together for a common goal i.e. leveling.
I am going to cancel my account when DCUO opens up.
This is one of the reasons I tend not to play CO often. I love the game, but no one I know plays it, and no one who plays it teams. :-/ Why even play an MMO if you aren't being all... you know... multiplayer-ish... Frankly, I think playing with other players is most of the purpose of online gaming, otherwise why even make the game an MMO? Just make it a single-player RPG. I think the game is great, but lacks the teaming environment of CoX.
I don't hate on Chmapions Online other thna the cryptic store BS....I in fact see a game with good potential that will enver recieve the love from it's developers to deliver ont hat potential because they sold themselves to Atari on th eprinciple of churning out games fast and cheap not running a MMORPG well after launch and are busy living up to their contract.
I resubbed about a week ago, was waiting on DCUO. And thought I'd try CO again, since it's the same genre. I also tried it from launch, but didn't like it. Got repetitive and boring pretty fast.
But guess what? Now I'm having a blast. The game is pretty boring at the start, because they want you to learn the game. And as soon as you "get it", it gets boring. But I leveled a few to ~20 now. And find it pretty fun. I just tried the Serpent Lantern instance, first boss. And it was fun and amazing, except that I dunno how to tank yet, I just stacked constitution(but I found out I guess I need presence as well) and went for it. Our group started out as three. Two DPS/tankish, last more DPSish.
Yeah this. CoX had a certain addictive quality because teaming, even easy PUG-ing, was just a lot of fun. Even though the map layouts were repetitive, it didn't really matter much. CO lacks that addictive quality. The biggest ball they dropped was the teaming ball - especially considering they had a whole potential audience of bored CoX-ers to attract.
But, I do keep coming back to CO. If you like superheroes, CO does have its charms. And the open build system is unique and fun to play around with - hunting for out of the way cool synergies and combinations of powers is in itself somewhat addictive.
And actually the graphics are pretty good maxed out, and if you like goofing off pretending to be a superhero, the "clutter" gives an overall immersive and "full" feel to the world.
I do think that the big problem with superhero MMOs is that no matter how much content and size of world devs put in, people are always going to piss and moan that the game doesn't have enough content or feels "small" - simply because a superhero MMO has to have travel powers from fairly early on. Fantasy MMOs make you work for fast travel, and that's the reason why - you grow into the game thinking the world is "big" because you've been yomping around it on foot for about a third or half of the levelling process. There was an argument recently on the CO forums about the size of the Millennium City zone, and some people saying it's tiny compared to WoW. I pointed out that you can run from Alterac to Stranglethorn in around 20 mins, someone else has run across Kalimdor in 18 mins. Someone on the forum pointed out that you can run across Millennium City in 15 mins - so yeay, WoW "continents" are a bit bigger than CO "zones", but the difference isn't like night and day, as you'd imagine from the way people talk about it. A lot of it is just psychological (similar for "lack of quests" - it's only because you can zip so quickly from quest to quest that there seem to be less of them, actually CO is somewhat content-light, but isn't all that content-light).
Did I miss something recently? Since when did they change english punctuation rules to change the period into '....'
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus