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Mandatory Features To Sell
geldonyetich
Member Posts: 1,340
Okay, "New Game Hype" is largely said and done for me. I generally like Final Fantasy XIV from my experiences during the open beta, I can cope with a console GUI no problem, and I'm not afraid of a stiff balance - heck I prefer it. Viva la core gamers! Down with the casual swine! However, though Final Fantasy XIV really fits the bill in this respect, there are a few things that really turn me off from wanting to buy this game until they are fixed:
The Marketplace is a mess. They need an auction house, or else a means to search for the item you're looking for other than manually combing through retainers. This game relies on a player economy, which is an ambitious and good thing, but that same player economy grinds to a crawl because of the severe difficulty of finding the items you need. Most crafters are doing everytihng themselves, which you technically can do thankst to the ease of job switching, but is less than ideal.
The GUI lag has got to go. I'm trying to scroll down a list of up to 80 items in my inventory and the GUI lag is apparently so bad at times that that my scrolling down apparently loops all the back up to the top of my list. I then reach for the mouse so I can scroll the window with the slider, but the mouse pointer is sticky and jumpy in the lag, making it both evade reaching the slider at first and then when I am sliding side unevenly. Repeat this exercise for each piece of equipment I need to equip/unequip; each time I'm lookin for stray items in my inventory (which cannot be sorted) to sell; every time I need to fill a box in my crafting interface with a new item. I've got a quad core processor, the game is using all four cores and not redlining them, what more do you want from my hardware? I'll need to see a severe reduction in GUI lag prior to release - some people report it's already happened, but not for me.
The difficulty with job switching would be up there too - there's no logical reason that the appropriate abilities aren't automatically equipped whenever I switch my main hand to the appropriate gear - except one can cobble together a somewhat functional workaround with macros.
However, for the two bulleted points above, I'm going to try to resist my impulses to buy the game unless I witness them added during the open beta or hear they're in the release-client. Maybe if they're added during the first few weeks of the game's release. Until then, I'd rather dump my $49.99 (plus tax) upgrading my F2P Lord of the Ring Online account, considering the only things FFXIV has that LOTRO doesn't are better graphics and job ability mixing (which, as an altaholic, I like a lot).
So, as long as I opened up the topic, anyone else have some mandatory features need by release to want to buy this game?
Comments
theres no auction house for a reason, youll have to socialize and befriend crafters, retainers will require labeling when they are buying and selling certain things, or label them random junk if thats indeed what they have. if you cant be bothered to go looking for what you want, or making nice with known crafters, thats your fault, not the games.
as far as lag goes, game still needs optimization passes, should shine up nicely soon enough.
No. This isn't opinion, this thing you have wrote, it is simply wrong.
It's a problem of severity that has disqualified it from being a valid opinion. The possibility walked out that door at about the point where you realize you can get the same thing done in roughly 30 seconds in Final Fantasy XI that will take you roughly two hours in FInal Fantasy XIV. Lets do the math: (60 * 60 * 2) / 30 = 240. Now, if it were maybe eight times as hard, no problem, I can respect our differences. However, it's two-hundred and fourty times harder. At this level of severity, reason dictates the sentiment is well outside the realm of a difference of perspective.
Maybe they had an ideal that this would encourage socialization. However, that ideal has failed, because you don't have to look far to see that crafters are avoiding eachother anyway, and trying to do everything themselves. It's not hard to see why: because trying to find another crafter to work along with them is almost insurmountably too hard. I know flow theory, when challenge exceeds a certain level you fall outside of flow and are frustrated, this i game design 101. In Final Fantasy XIV's marketplace, it's so far outside of the flow level that the chart would have to be 500 times bigger to accomidate the relative level of challenge.
No, they don't get to use socialization as an excuse here. They just threw a bunch of NPCs in a room and expect you go through them one at a time like you're searching for a Bronze Needle +2 out of a bunch of retainers mostly selling Straw. It's just bad, lackluster implementaiton. We're left with something that undermines the efficiency of the entire player economy. If you care about that economy, you will stop supporting what undermines it.
That's why it's on my list of things in which I draw the line. I need some kind of feature to eliminate this completely pointless chore, or this would be a rueful purchase, at best.
I've been thinking about this user interface lag for a while now and I don't believe I have seen any other MMORPG suffer from this particular problem. I doubt its related to any technical problem but rather a design decision. Unfortunately I don’t have any facts but my theory revolves on the fact that these UI delays are intentional as they are processed from the server rather than being managed through the user client. If this holds true then I'm afraid we won’t be seeing any IU improvements anytime soon unless SE decides to shift the UI to the client side.
Why the hell would they do that? Intentionally gimping a core feature of your game, not to say the most important feature coz its the one that lets you interact with the world.
(just to let you know, I'm postponing acquisition of this game until the whole ui/control issue has been delt with accordingly, as of now its a mess ==> IMO)
The GUI delay I mentioned in the example in the original post, where the inventory actually screws up and warps as you try to scroll through it, is definately not intentional. Yes, I know modern art is very open to interpretation. The inventory GUI malfunctioning because it's so badly lagged it can no longer keep track of where your cursor is not a matter of artistic interpretation, it's a certifiably and universally recognized technical problem.
I should clarify about that some more. The UI delay (the time delay when transitioning between certain menus such as selling in bazaars and initiating crafting) is just as intentioanl as the software mouse. They are both design decisions with the intent of preventing/tracking botters and possible gold farmers.
I really hope everyone's desires to see this game come through become true. I really do. There isn't much time left in the OB. I saw this in the beta site not too long ago. Hopefully they can "fix" these issues out by then.
"We would like to thank everyone who has participated in the FINAL FANTASY XIV Open Beta Test.
The open beta test currently being conducted is scheduled to end at 5:00 p.m. on September 19, 2010 (PDT). Following the end of the open beta test, the beta test site will close at 12:00 a.m. on September 20, 2010 (PDT).
*Client downloads will cease simultaneously with the end of the open beta test.
*The bug report form will be closed simultaneously with the beta test site.
There isn’t much time left in the open beta test, but we would like to thank everyone for their cooperation and support."
Stop cramming the end of the beta down our throats like some kind of argument-ending bludgeon. Although what you wrote there was about 2 days earlier than I thought they'd end the open beta, considering the beta test form says they're preparing for a Sept 21st launch, we all knew when the beta was going to end that weekend.
Regardless, it's my hope that these are release-day features. Maybe the release client has one or both features, considering this open beta client supposedly held back so much. Crossing my fingers, but I'll need to hear that from you guys, because I'm not dropping the cash to find out myself until I hear otherwise.
Personally I like the market place system, its very old school. Sure right now it might be annoying because no one probably has any good items (I havnt actually found the area with the vendors so I havnt been able to check) but think about the future there will be "known" vendors that everyone goes to because these crafters will always keep everything in stock. It pretty much leads to a very in depth and developed player-run economy by using this kind of market system (assuming it works the way I think it does, i.e. a player owns a vendor that they stock with items and people can buy things from it right?).
all your points form the op is correct, i tried so hard to love ffxvi in the end the user interface lag dug me in an early grave.
i forced myself to cancel 2 ffxvi collector's edition, since im such a big fan of ffxi and square.....BUT
Im not hardcore fan enough to not see flaws in this game....
IMAGINE trying to sell stacks and stacks of items from your inventory with mouse and user interface lag.....
Holy crap i mean jesus i spend almost 2 hours trying to sell my inventories in open beta....
IF they dont fix this crap, there is no way ill buy ffxvi period no way. im sick and tire of this crap that square threw at us its unacceptable!
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
That optimism wore thin after the upteenth time to the marketplace, wading through so many retainers that 5 more clip into view every time I take 3 steps forward, trying to find the few things I actually want in a pile of harvested garbage. Often discovering, 200 open market dialogues later, that none of them had what I wanted.
So bear in mind what I'm referring to is more of a long-term perspective of my tolerance for the thing, after the novelty has run thin.
It's a solid base/core game like FFXI was at launch. They will be constantly building on it. They have already said in an interview that they are looking into making it easier to find specific items, and possibily adding a search for market wards. Of course they will be working on UI lag constantly. I believe they said by launch it should be greatly reduced.
It will still be rough around the edges. It is a launch MMO. May be best to wait a few months if you are on the fence.
I like where they are going with this new market system. I believe the main gripe a lot of people have with this new market is that there is currently no way to search for items directly (ex. AH search). The only search function right now in terms of looking for a specific item requires your character to communicate to your retainer and asking them to search for items on your behalf. However, this entails that you to have to have the item to begin with or else they cannot perform the search for you. I'm not participating in the OB for personal reasons so anyone with more knowledge about how this works is free to add in.
You're right about needing to have the item on hand in order to use the "purchase" function from your retainer, which is another bothersome limitation but one not quite dire enough for me to put on the list of my "must have" features.
However, the retainer doesn't go out and find the item. What actually happens is the retainer sits there with the purchase order you created and the money you've given it for the offer (the cash might even take up another of the retainer's limited (8 or 10) bazaar slots but I'm not sure). Now, having put the purchase order on your retainer, you have to wait and hope the following happens:
That some player comes by...
Finds your retainer buried admist the others...
Browses the market on your retainer and notices your offer...
Has in his 80-slot inventory of potentially thousands of different items the specific item you want (or willingness to go get and bring it back from wherever he or she stashed it)...
Agrees to the price you are offering and sells it to your retainer...
Where it sits in your retainer's inventory, without notifying you the sale as done, for you to remember to find the next time you visit your retainer.
In the end, there's not only zero respite for you from having to wade through a room with 200 retainers trying to find the one that may actually have what you want, but some other player has to overcome it in order to get to the offer you left on your retainer.
It wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't completely reliant on the player economy to furnish all the stuff you need to progress in the game... but you are. A pure player economy is cool and ambitious, I like that. Furthermore, in the current state, it works, I'm not going to say it has halted. However, without a better way to search through what's being offered, it's lurching forward needlessly slowly and painfully, like a wagon on square wheels.
In my personal experience of how the player economy is shaking up, the beta has been going on for over a week, I've been playing more or less nonstop during all that time, and I've still yet to get my hands on a better than rank 1 piece of main-hand equipment. (I could have purchased a rank 8 bow from than NPC vendor, but any other class would have to get their weapon from another player.)
In the week of play, I saw another player selling Maple Canes, a rank 7 weapon, but passed on purchasing them because they seemed too highly priced for me. In the end, I decided to craft a Maple Cane, myself. This will merely require I get about rank 7 in Carpentry and a very basic level of alchemy. That's getting off really easy. If I were trying to craft my own armor, I'd probably need good levels in 3 or 4 different crafting disciplines. Consider what this guy would have to do to get a rank-9 harpoon.
Make no mistake, whatever other criticism you hear about Final Fantasy XIV, this one is beyond debate: there is a dire need to add sometihng to make it easier to find what you need out of what the other players have to offer.
What you have to understand is what you see as a negative many others may see as a positive. What is mandatory to you may be detrimental to others. I really like this system. I pray they don't add an auction house, but instead expand on searchability of market wards. Maybe have a list of unique items per ward, and some kind of built in features with the mog house when it is added.
It is a rough system right now but I really do enjoy going shopping. Over time I think it will turn into something pretty special and unique.
Oh, I understand perfectly, because I was once of like mind with you. What you need to understand is this: while combing through 200 retainers to find what you want seems like a "positive" system to you now, you'll be singing a different tune a few days after the novelty wears off.
I don't hate Final Fantasy XIV, but this problem is every bit as bad as I'm explaining it to be, and it doesn't get better over time. Quite the opposite: the longer you need deal with it, the more you come to regret the necessity.
Bad design remains bad design, it's physically incapable of being anything else. If it turns into a "special and unique" experience for you, mark my words, it will be in much the same light as a mysterious and unusually painful rash could be. Considering any "social" aspect this was designed to attract seemed to have failed (see earlier posts along these lines) a bad design is all that's left (that is, as pertains to this idea of a player marketplace).
Well they are working on something to make it better. I am fine with it for now until they expand on it. If it is a must have for you then you can always wait for it to be updated.
I never said otherwise. Whether or not the gaming landscape of this future time favors I bother to purchase the game by the time they get around to it, however, it yet to be determined. Better much sooner than later for them, at least where my $50 is concerned.
Yeah who knows how long it will take. I think SE should have probably released in Japan and then done a global PS3/PC release in the West. Gamers over here don't accept stripped down games at launch, but whatever.
If you want 1-3 specific items just go to the market wards and ask around. Many crafters know each other and who works with what. I have found specific stuff doing this every time and pretty fast. Market Wards are more for browsing/shopping, but you should still be interacting with crafters. In CB I had at least 1 friend of every craft. I have been playing for 3 months now and the market wards are still a lot of fun for me, but yeah I don't go in trying to find 1 specific item. That would be madness.
If this is key for you then probably just wait till the PS3 launch and content update. I bet we will see something with this by then. Maybe another game will be launching by then and you won't care, and maybe one day down the line you will give FFXIV a fair shot as a released game with some updates and it will live up to your expectations.
I'm buying the game, despite the issues.
My hope for the marketplace is this...
Crafters will figure out a system in which to logical place retainers. There are 6 or 8 trade districts. Savvy crafters will probably try to create a system in which each district would sell certain types of equipment and or supplies.
Lets say...level 1 would sell consumables on one side of it and the supplies to make said consumables on the other side.
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The GUI lag is the killer for me. If it isn't resolved in a few months, I would definitely abandon the game. As it is now, I"ll probably just avoid anything to do with inventory management
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
It will be like any other game without an auction house. You will either buy from within your linkshell/guild or browse the forums to find people advertising.
But nobody is gonna waste their time browsing through retainers once they realize how inefficient and time consuming it is.
I would agree with your statement. If they want to make harvesting and crafting challenging, then finding raw materials has to be made relatively easy. FFXI had a superb AH and just needs to be copy+pasted over.
UI lag is due to the fact that this game basically requires the player to use a gamepad and not a keyboard.
The old-school feel and difficulty is a respectable approach. I've played EQ 1 and beyond to see many different styles, but coupled with the cumbersome menu system (6 keystrokes to see your journal and exit it....), lack of tool-tips, and having to macro my skills (macroing item swap is fine, but it should at the very least remember your skill bar) This game is just too offputting for me and I would wager to say a majority of your average players as well. You really have to be a huge FF fan or MMO addict to truly appreciate it.
Plus, I feel like the PC version is basically a testing ground for their actual product, the PS3 version. The game feels and plays like a console port. So, when the PC version suffers and releases without certain features just because the PS3 version cannot support them, the concession is too great for me to play.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
just a small comment: "Mandatory Features To Sell" - there are none. every player has different preferences and everyone is willing to put up with different amount of bugs and bad features. only "Mandatory Features To Sell" is that the game runs
No, it happens on gamepad too. It is slightly better in some places, but you'll still be dragging your way painfully slowly down an up-to-80-slot inventory many times, whether you're on gamepad or keyboard. Heck, the mouse even has an advantage when it comes to dragging through the inventory.
On the contrary, there's certainly mandatory features to sell if you look at it from a subjective perspective of what each individual player is willing to put up with before they drop their dosh on the game. I had initially intended for this to be a thread where players can express their individual preferences along these lines. However, on Internet forums, I guess being reactionary is just easier.
What I expressed in the original message, I think it's fair to say this reflects the overwhelming majority's opinion. The GUI lag, and lack of means to find what you want from the player economy which is so pivotal to the game, are about 98% of the way towards being game breaking. You can survive on the remaining 2%, but not comfortably. However, it's rather difficult to prove that anything I believe applies to the majority.
Truth be told, I may just buy the damn thing anyway, just so I don't miss out on that fresh MMORPG experience. However, I hope that these issuse are fixed promptly, because they really are beyond the realm of comfort for a greater body for players. I don't really care about popularity, I find that many casual-friendly games comprimise good game design in their desire to be accessible. However, in the case of resolving GUI lag and the difficulty of exchanging items through the player economy, it's not popularity I'm catering to, it's common sense.