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Video Game, and MMORPGs, Are Not Mainstream.
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
I'm lifting this from a blog that you can read here. The whole thing is kinda long so I'm just going to post the most pertenent parts.
Gamer Culture Is Not As Big As You Think It Is
It may seem to you that everyone is gaming these days, but that really depends on who you surround yourself with. The internet’s most vocal and prominent denizens are naturally tech-savvy, and because of that, are likely no strangers to games. If you visit a bunch of gaming sites (you had to find this article somehow, no?), seek out a bunch of gamers to hang out with, etc, you’re going to feel surrounded by gamers. But the broader world is still fairly games-ignorant.
Is your boss a gamer? His boss? If you work for an indie game developer, maybe, but even if you work for a major games company (hi, Bobby Kotick!) the answer is probably no. Does the sales force play games? Marketing? Finance? Maybe. Probably not. When the NES and Genesis were around, most kids at school still didn’t play games regularly. Even in college, where a Playstation or N64 was always connected to a common TV, most people weren’t playing games.
You may be thinking that everyone you know plays games. Personally, out of all the people that I know from meeting face to face (i.e. not over the internet), about ten are gamers. I’m not just talking about members of an older generation that isn’t gaming; this includes people my age who still think gaming is a waste of time, or something for kids that they’ve given up long ago. They can talk the balls off a brass monkey about the upcoming football season, or that week’s episode of Lost/True Blood/Dexter/whatever, but bring up games and you get honest blank stares. Not because they play games, but games aren’t “cool” to talk about. Because they really don’t know what you’re referring to.
Here’s a totally unscientific video of a guy asking random people on the street about Final Fantasy‘s (one of gaming’s longest-running series) most popular mascot (the chocobo). It goes as you would expect. But maybe that’s just Cleveland though? Wark!
Ok, how about women gamers? What’s the rule about the internet? “Men are boys, women are men,” etc etc. Gamers make a tremendously stupid deal about girl gamers. Finding one is apparently as rare as a double rainbow. If they were around in regular numbers, it wouldn’t even register a thought. That’s almost exactly half the world’s population right there that apparently isn’t playing many games.
Let’s try some real-life situations. It’s date night with a girl you don’t know well. Do you take her to the movies, or somewhere to play games? You’re meeting a new group of people at some kind of social function. Would you feel more comfortable talking about books or movies before you bring up games? It’s Friday night – are you going to talk about your plans to see the new movie, or your plans to go home and play games all night? Being a “gamer” stillcarries a negative connotation in most situations.
Even if you personally aren’t, there are plenty of people who aren’t totally honest about their gaming habits. Even if you don’t lie about being a gamer, have you ever lied to someone about how much time you spend gaming? Why the shame? What’s to hide if it’s mainstream and totally accepted? But you’d never lie about games right? Fuck the haters! Well… would you admit in a job interview how many hours you play WoW? On a date that’s going well? Your convictions might change when it’s important!
How about this – who is the Roger Ebert of video game reviews? Who is an equivalently respected, published, cited authority on the subject? (I don’t know of one) When the mainstream media does a video game story, is it positive or sensationalist; treating video games as deviant, quirky, or a kid’s toy? I shouldn’t even need to link to examples for that one. Did you know that The Wall Street Journal does book and movie reviews for some incomprehensible reason, but not video games? In fact, while just about every major publication keeps a film or book critic around, you still have to go to a “game” website or magazine to get opinions on video games.
How about some numbers then? Statistics are easily cherry-picked and manipulated, but I’ll throw a few quick ones in here so it’s not just my personal experiences and rhetorical questions.
Modern Warfare 2 famously raked in the “the biggest launch in history across all forms of entertainment” with 4.7 million units sold in the US and UK the first 24 hours. That claimdidn’t hold water. The Dark Knight pulled an estimated 9.2 million moviegoers in the U.S. alone. But hey, many of The Dark Knight‘s viewers were probably gamers too, so how about something where the audiences aren’t likely to overlap? Twilight: Eclipse drew in about 3.75 million viewers (assuming an $8 ticket) in ONE MIDNIGHT SHOWING. It would go on to bring in over 17.8 million eyeballs for that opening weekend (assuming the same ticket price). Remember, we’re not talking revenue here (games are far more expensive per unit), we’re talking tickets sold/units moved/eyes on the screen.
What about those Asian nations where people play games until they die from them? Like China, where there are a whole lot of people (1.3 billion). Game consoles are banned in China, but online games are not affected and have flourished accordingly. Still, estimates put only 68 million online gamers in China for 2009 (some of which, I’m assuming, are gold farmers). That’s not a lot by comparison.
69% of all Americans go to movies, according to Nielsen’s 2009 American Moviegoing report. (It’s not free, so no links for this one.) According to U.S. Census estimates for 2009 (305 million) that’s about 210 million moviegoers in 2009.
Television viewership has been steadily declining, but Nielsen still estimates 114.9 million TV-watching homes in the U.S. alone. That just counts homes, not multiple people living in them.
Exact statistics for books sold are apparently somewhere between difficult and impossible to get, but I can tell you that 2009 sales were somewhere between $13.5 and 26.6 billion dollars. And print’s dead, right? I mean, who do you know that still reads books?
The most successful game around, FarmVille boasts 63 million active users worldwide. That’s getting up there. ButFarmVille‘s not a “real game,” right gamers? That’s something the secretary plays at work when the boss isn’t watching. It certainly hasn’t been proven to be a gateway to more hardcore titles, and very doubtful that many of those players come home to PS3s or Xbox360s.
The ESA finds that 64% of American households play games – a number which seems to put it directly against cinema attendance (though remember, that’s just theater attendance – the total cultural impact of movies also includes DVDs, TV rebroadcasts, online streaming; additional markets that the games industry doesn’t have). However, the ESA’s report doesn’t mention what they consider to be games, or how many hours are spent playing them. Aside from sales figures I’ve already referenced (showing a skew toward casual party/family games), the only real clue is the statistic of 42% of online game time being devoted to “Puzzle, Board Game, Game Show, Trivia, Card Games,” i.e. “casual games.” Which leads back to games being seen as simple diversions instead of frequently-consumed, respected, universally-enjoyed media.
You probably have a board game somewhere in your house or apartment. This means you’ve bought a board game. You’ve played a board game. You count as a statistic of board gaming households, but would you consider yourself a “board gamer?” If you’re like most people I know, you bust that board game out maybe once a year, but it hardly factors into your daily routine like movies, TV, or books do.
That’s why it’s hard to count casual gamers as proponents for, or examples of, mainstream gaming. Games for them are temporary diversions. Certainly not something they do often. Certainly not a lifestyle. Certainly not a passionate hobby.
Certainly not up there with established “mainstream” media.
Comments
I have to respectfully disagree and say the Video Games have become Mainsteam, based on facts.
I also hang out on WSJ and they have a entertainment section, something the blogger might have missed.
Ignoring how hugh this industry has grown even passed movie revenue nobody should or could deny that video games have become mainstream.
Internet has also become mainstream which is why video games have become more mainstream, where it used to be a select group of people into games, these day's games are availeble to the public and the public is more then ever confronted with video games in our daily lives regardless if one is a gamer or not. So Video Games Are In Fact Mainstream.
I don't think they are mainstream. I think they are known to the mainstream.
There are more people who play them, true, but one is still looked at a bit odd when you say you play an online game. I think they will become mainstream eventually but at the moment I dont' really talk about my gaming as my work cohorts usually just politely smile. Same with my friends.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I experienced the opposite at my previous job outside the industry, but that's probably because I worked in networking and software support. It was very common to hear people talking about pre-ordering Oblivion or getting ready for WOW raids or the latest thing they heard about the upcoming Lord of the Rings online game. Again, it could very well be because I was in a techie environment and not a good exampleof the norm.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Very true. People at work know I do online gaming, but a majority of them are not really familiar with the culture. In time as more younger folks advance in the workforce I'm sure it will become more mainstream, but right now despite the numbers we're still a pretty small niche in society.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
certanly not in many countries, but the rich one it´s becoming quite mainstream. The day i see a game comercial on my TV i may shit my pants, but with all this "Wee-Wee" crap surely it´s starting to grab more attention of the masses.
... quality being turned down but... another subject
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Ignoring whether I think Video Games are mainstream or not. This guy threw a lot of links around to random crap without proving his point with any factual information.
Also he blatantly confused the MW2 biggest entertainment launch with over sales by saying the Dark Knight beat it. Dark Knight's LAUNCH didn't beat MW2's LAUNCH I believe, which is how many units/tickets you sell in the first day or few days (whatever term they're specifically using to define the launch time frame). It is not a measure of how many total units/tickets are sold over the life of the game/movie.
This is just a random blogger trying to randomly stick information together to not prove a point.
Also at what point do you define mainstream? Is it when 50% of the population or greater use it? Is it when 50% of the population or greater know of it? It is a term that is sure to have many opinions on the definition.
With how many people played facebook games, how many console get sold, how many hand held gaming units (psp DS) get sold, how many iphone/andriod game aps get sold, I would say that gaming is mainstream. Does that mean everyone plays games? no just like there are still people who don't have internet, cable/satellite tv, or cell phones. The gaming market is also shown to be growing every year. So whoever decides their opinion is that it is not currently mainstream, will likely have to change their opinion in a couple years.
I've seen lots of game commercials, how have you not ever seen one? Years ago at a movie theatre one of the "trailers" was either a WoW or EQ2 trailer (can't remember which now, I just remember being surprised they shelled out the money to do that).
here's my take on this subject...I don't care...I enjoy games...I play games....that's all that matters to me.It's nice tha tmore poepel are discoveirng gaming and that game companies making moeny so that they cna keep making me games to play but I've bene gaming since space invaders hit skate rinks and street corners in the 80s and wil continue to tdo so for the foreseeable future regardless if it becomes truyl mainstream or not.
"Modern Warfare 2 famously raked in the “the biggest launch in history across all forms of entertainment” with 4.7 million units sold in the US and UK the first 24 hours. That claimdidn’t hold water. The Dark Knight pulled an estimated 9.2 million moviegoers in the U.S. alone. But hey, many of The Dark Knight‘s viewers were probably gamers too, so how about something where the audiences aren’t likely to overlap? Twilight: Eclipse drew in about 3.75 million viewers (assuming an $8 ticket) in ONE MIDNIGHT SHOWING. It would go on to bring in over 17.8 million eyeballs for that opening weekend (assuming the same ticket price). Remember, we’re not talking revenue here (games are far more expensive per unit), we’re talking tickets sold/units moved/eyes on the screen.
What about those Asian nations where people play games until they die from them? Like China, where there are a whole lot of people (1.3 billion). Game consoles are banned in China, but online games are not affected and have flourished accordingly. Still, estimates put only 68 million online gamers in China for 2009 (some of which, I’m assuming, are gold farmers). That’s not a lot by comparison."
Modern Warfare was a retail release, not a one off viewing as is the case in going to see a movie. You need to compare like for like if you are going to make a real stab at the debate. According to a press release by Summit Entertainment 3 million copies of Twighlight sold in the first 24 hours, which is less then MW. You are essentially comparing the wrong statistics..
Again in the Asian example, the statistics you have used are somewhat misleading. For a start the majority of the chinese population live in rural/remote areas, with a large number of them living under the poverty line (or at least not wealthy enough to spend money on any form of e-entertainment). You need to look at the 68 million in terms of how many Chinese have access to and funds for gaming/entertainment.
I can see what you are getting at but you really need to be a little more careful with your usage of comparable statistics.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Here is a merely a report on sales. The article deal mostly with consoles, but it illustrates the amount of money video games can generate.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10435516-52.html
I seem to recall that in 2007 video game sales exceeded motion picture sales in the US. Games are mainstream in the US.
Sure, you still have some folks who cling to the old notion that only basement dwelling geeks play games, but then again, there are some who still claim Rock and Roll is the work of the devil-- after some 60 years.
What I find interesting about the OP's article, is that it discounts so many things that most people consider video games. Take Farmville for instance. Love it or hate it, it is a video game just as Pacman or WoW is. Sure, the subject matter is different but Farmville is not the first game about farming (nor will it be the last).
I am curious what the OP deems as "mainstream." How many sales or units in households is enough to earn the mainstream label?
Being mainstream has never been an ambition of mine.
I do not set off into the frontiers of imaginary worlds with the hope that everyone else will be there waiting.
I think the OP would have been better served if he pondered whether MMOs are mainstream or not, as opposed to all video games in general.
Now that could be one heck of a discusion depending on one's point of view.
Warren Spector disagrees with your statement http://pax.gamespot.com/video/6275271/
I think he has a little more clout than anyone here...Lol
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I thought I made it clear in the original post that I didn't write the article that I quoted. I do agree with much that is in the article though. I totally agree that video games are a niche market that is being sucked into the same vortex that comic books seemed to have disappeared into. And by "vortex" I mean a total sausage fest subculture devoted to licking the jackboot heels of hollywood.
The comparison to Dark Knight and Twilght was solid. Video games are going to draw more money (overall) than movie tickets because video games cost more. The question is about the number of people that went to the theater to see these two movies as opposed to the number of people that bought MW2 at launch. It's $8 a ticket to see a movie and $60 for MW2 at launch. You do the math. I'm also pretty sure that if we added in rental/pay-per-view numbers into the mix that we'd see more people grabbing the movies rather than MW2.
As for casual/social games also being vidoe games....
I'm cool with that as long as the "hardcore" and "elite" know their rightful place as the absolute bottom of the shit barrel and STFU every now and again.
i don't think they're mainstream. there's a good amount of gamers, but i'm sure a lot of them are casual. i'm having a hard time finding somebody to play with actually....so many people think games are a waste of time, yet they're fine with watching 3 hours of TV a day. my non-gamer friends parents say they rot your brain, yet i'm smarter then all my non-gamer friends. go figure. =/
Video games are a billion dollar industry. Like rock music and rap. Of course it is mainstream then.
It is still not common high up in the ages, people over 40 tend to play less (my dad is 65 and have been hooked on FPS games since Doom.
Everyone and their mother still don't play but it is getting more every year and there will be a time in the near future when most bosses, politicians and so on will play too.
I am pretty sure Casual gamers are gamers too. Exactly how you play differs but gaming as such is mainstream now.
You are not exactly a rebel if you play Wow or the Sims.
I'm like you. I resort to games (and occasional television and movies via the internet) to escape the redundancy of everyday life. My marks clearly indicate I'm head and shoulders above the rest of my school, yet I probably spend more time than anyone stuck to the computer screen playing WoW. I just don't like talking about WoW or other games with non-gamers, it holds a negative connotation to most non-gamers unfortunately.
I believe video games are the new rock and roll. 60 years ago parents used to hate RnR simply because it was new, foreign and the "punks" liked it. Video games are they same way. Older generations simply don't understand our culture as youth generally, and fear it's imposing on their older lifestyle.
Over the next decades it is going to be very interesting to see where video games evolve into.
But yes I'll admit when I was single I didn't reveal my gamer side to every woman I dated for fear of being pegged. My fianc
That's a great question. I'm not sure what to say but I wonder if one can look at a certain demographic of people and infer from that whether it's mainstream.
All I know is that a lot of people are playing games but in my experience they are mostly computer people, younger people. Oh and me. ; )
When I get people at work asking me "do adults really do that?" and my friends all (in good fun) chide me for vanishing into my imaginary worlds, it doesn't feel as mainstream as tv or movies or, er.. radio.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I got my first C-64 in '85. It wasn't mainstream then. But rock n roll might have been the music for rebels in the 60s but it sure isn't now. But video games has been around since the 80s, parents play them too. It is grandparents that don't play so much.
Video games do evolve, there wasn't much in common with my C-64 games and the ones today and they will continue to change. But computers are getting into most generations now, and as time goes everyone will use computers.
A computer is not that different from a TV in my book, it is just better since I can use it for many things instead of just watch what's on. But more people play already than people go and watch a movie so saying that it isn't mainstream is just fooling yourself. It is the same way some people seems to think Rock N roll and Rap isn't mainstream, today it is.
Been avoiding this post all day because I thought it would be some BS about gaming...glad I finally clicked on it because I agree with the premise - gaming is more common than people think.
While I agree that gaming is much more "mainstream" than people give it credit for, you also need to look at the actual sales for each market.
A video game sell for $50 ($49.99).
A movie ticket for a new release goes for $10.
In 2009, the numbers were roughly $20 billion for video game sales and about $10 billion in box office sales.
That "looks" like gaming is twice the size...but dig a little deeper and you'll see it doesn't quite work that way. Those numbers break down to be roughly 1 billion people seeing a movie and only 400 million buying a video game.
Therefore, you are STILL better off talking about movies vs. video games when looking for commonality in conversation.
I would really have to disagree with the OP, at least in the us, most people in the US have played a video game, all are aware of videogames, and a large percentage I am sure play a video game on occasion.
as an example,
I walked into the break room at bank I used to work for, I noticed sitting at the table closest to the door my CEO staring intently at his cell phone. after a moment he glanced up an noticed me and with a wry smile flipped the phone around to show me the little maze/puzzle game he was playing. after talking for awhile, He is not a gamer, he does not own a console but on occasion when bored does play this on his cell, and on occasion solitaire on his PC
My mother plays Chainzs, my grandfather plays Wii Bowling, most anyone how has or works on a PC has played a video game even if just the ones that ship with the OS. how many people in the US have played Tetris, or PacMan?
to the Point of " would you admit in a job interview how many hours you play WoW?" I'll answer that question with a question, If you watched TV for 8+ hours a day every day would you admit that in an interview? why the shame?
if someone brought up the topic of "all my Children" (thats a soap opera) how many people at work would just stare blankly?
Are all genres of games mainstream, no, but neither are all types of music, or all types of movies or all shows on TV. are video games mainstream? yes.
The first time I knew games went mainstream happened when I was on a business trip to Washington (I live in Texas) and I was at a conference for -basically- a financial institution which also went over security and technology (which is why I was there). I was asked to come to a business lunch with a group of people, mostly in the business of finances. I was sitting there and people were talking about financial planning, and recovery, and stocks. Out of the blue this one guy brought up World of Warcraft. It wasn't just him talking about the business model, he was talking about the character he played and all that jazz.
Me being the youngest one at the table, I knew what he was talking about, but I looked around and saw everyone looking at him like he was some weirdo. Moments later another person at the table spoke up about it as well, and they were exchanging handles. I didn't say I thing, I hate WoW, and kind of thought it was inappropriate, but it dawned on me how gaming culture, and games themselves, have kind of weaseled themeselves into society.
Thats why I have to respectfully disagree with the first part of the .. blog?
Well I can't say for society as a whole but from my own person experience I'd have to say that video games are definitely not in the mainstream. Out of everyone I know, from work, friends, family, teammates from my sports teams, players from the sports leagues that I run, out of all of them very few actually play video games (they might have played once or twice in their life, but certainly not a regular occurance). I think I know of one other person, besides myself, that plays video games on a regular basis.