Hrm... My last edit was at 11:01:59. Your post is tagged at 11:24:28... You didn't post a response until 23 minutes after my reply to you, but then you say I keep editing my post. Not sure what you're getting at there.
Hmmm not that much into Your debate, but 11:24:28 is the time that he pushed post message button, not time he started to reply. That means he could start typing, made a post, then used preview and noticed that Your post has changed. Tho 23 minutes is somewhat longish to write a post. Still, wanted to point it out.
Possibly. Point is, his "suspicion" is unwarranted. If I'd gone back and changed my post *after* he posted his, then sure.. I could understand it. As that's not what happened... well... yeah... Red Herring. Just sayin'.
Anyway... It's clear to me by now that there are some around here who are intent on completely ignoring or twisting the context of what I said, and why I posted it, despite my specific and deliberate effort to point it out in my OP and in subsequent posts.
My point's been made. People with enough intellectual honesty to read it as a whole, and not cherry-pick the bits they want to pick-apart will understand the point of it.
Some of you are clearly looking for a debate where none need exist.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Considering how you argue and construct your posts, I'd say he, and the poster that you quoted a few posts above, aren't too far off, really. It's not as though you would ever concede to something like that though, so whatever.
Okay, so what language shall I explain it to you in, then, since Plain English doesn't seem to get through?
Maybe if I type it more slowly that'll help?
I've said not every post that says "fail!" should be given equal consideration because while some do raise valid criticisms, others don't. I have never said that no criticism of XIV is valid... as much as some of you are intent on painting it that way.
Again... some of you are reallllllly reaching looking for a fight here, and it's really quite sad.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Anyway... It's clear to me by now that there are some around here who are intent on completely ignoring or twisting the context of what I said, and why I posted it, despite my specific and deliberate effort to point it out in my OP and in subsequent posts.
My point's been made. People with enough intellectual honesty to read it as a whole, and not cherry-pick the bits they want to pick-apart will understand the point of it.
Some of you are clearly looking for a debate where none need exist.
Well I for one appreciate your post Mike, and have been directing all of my non-daily-forum-visiting friends to it (without the replies) who are worried about all the negative posts.
I also agree with you, seems the people who are responding negatively or critically to your post are just trying to start a fight for no apparent reason. I guess maybe they are the ones that dislike FFXIV and hate to see someone put their ravings about how the game sucks into context?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
WSIMIKE, your not going to get your message through on these forums.
As numerous people have stated the worst part of an MMO is probably the forums that people dwell in, whether official, fansites, or media ones.
The internet gave everyone a voice, and at some point, everyone wants to say something that is pissing them off. Whether its a bad day in real life that equates to them coming here, or they truely are just upset the game is not for them, they will find faults whether they are true or not, again is subjective to each person. People who have a lot of post, or even only a few but in only one game, are passionate about their stance on a game, regardless of loving or disliking it. That emotion that swells is probably brought on by numerous things, but to see something you have been hoping to be what you wanted come to end in failure in your eyes, just burns people the wrong way.
Anyway... It's clear to me by now that there are some around here who are intent on completely ignoring or twisting the context of what I said, and why I posted it, despite my specific and deliberate effort to point it out in my OP and in subsequent posts.
My point's been made. People with enough intellectual honesty to read it as a whole, and not cherry-pick the bits they want to pick-apart will understand the point of it.
Some of you are clearly looking for a debate where none need exist.
Well I for one appreciate your post Mike, and have been directing all of my non-daily-forum-visiting friends to it (without the replies) who are worried about all the negative posts.
I also agree with you, seems the people who are responding negatively or critically to your post are just trying to start a fight for no apparent reason. I guess maybe they are the ones that dislike FFXIV and hate to see someone put their ravings about how the game sucks into context?
Heheh.. I really have no idea what their goal is... Well, I do have an idea... but whatever.
My post was not aimed at the people who've already made up their mind about the game either way. It wasn't aimed at people who already spend a lot of time on forums. It's for those who don't follow forums a lot but might happen across here (and elsewhere) and see a lot of such posts, thinking them an accurate representation of what *everyone* thinks, or giving them all equal credibility... when some certainly do not deserve it. There are many valid criticisms. But there's also a lot of noise.
I'm not even specifically defending XIV so much as I'm saying, "this is par for the course.. It happens with every new MMO to come along... FFXIV was just the next in line... Once FFXIV launches and all the hubbub has settled down, the "fail" crowd will move on to the next big one to come along... be it GW2, ToR, TERA, Rift... you name it. They'll be there repeating the same mantra. The bigger the game, the louder the noise will be. ToR should be deafening. In that context, don't take every "fail" post you see to heart... much of it is just noise"
That's really all it boils down to and, again, I really don't get what people are picking a fight for lol.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Considering how you argue and construct your posts, I'd say he, and the poster that you quoted a few posts above, aren't too far off, really. It's not as though you would ever concede to something like that though, so whatever.
Okay, so what language shall I explain it to you in, then, since Plain English doesn't seem to get through?
Maybe if I type it more slowly that'll help?
I've said not every post that says "fail!" should be given equal consideration because while some do raise valid criticisms, others don't. I have never said that no criticism of XIV is valid... as much as some of you are intent on painting it that way.
Again... some of you are reallllllly reaching looking for a fight here, and it's really quite sad.
Despite the childish personal attacks, I'll bite.
So what is your point exactly? That every gaming community in this history of time has had vigilante groups of sorts hell-bent on claiming that the game fails, despite the actual state of the game? Yeah, no shit - as if this isn't something that the majority of people already understand. The thing is, I've read many, many, MANY threads on multiple forums about this game, and I've spent days wading through it myself, and the complaints and/or criticism is usually the same and usually merited. What exactly have you been seeing that's more in the "blowing smoke" category? You didn't list any examples in your post, so you don't really elaborate on the point you're trying to make.
When you see a vast number of complaints pop-up in such a relatively small time frame, some of which from some of the most devoted fans of the series, it's pretty clear there are some genuine concerns. Sure, these issues obviously don't bother everyone and to some, they're not even issues at all, but to imply that the majority of the complaints around here and other forums are mainly just trolls with nothing better to do is a bit far-fetched, From what I've seen, most of the complaints seem reasonable.
Why anyone would base their decision to play or not on some forum posts is beyond me. The OP made an obvious observation that anyone with half a brain would understand, and in that regard shouldn't even need to be said.
To quote the great TV personality Mr. Terry Tate: "that ain't nothing new baby".
The problem this time of course and with this game is that most of "those" posts are legitimate concerns stemming from 8 years of stubbornness from SE. We all know the game will be "ok", that doesn't even need to be said. That still doesn't change the fact that i'm disappointed at what this game is as apposed to what it could have been.
When something is really good and devs had made a really serious effort despice ppl's taste they accept its succeess..some exceptions are always but the majority wont deny a good product is good.
I would have to agree with the OP on the point that with every upcoming launch there is a rash of threads stating that said game is "Fail" a large number of which do not give detailed explanation and many of those that do give details are deliberately giving misinformation and put things in the worst light possible.
Stating this does not in any way invalidate all criticism of a game, there are threads that can and do constructively point out issues and concerns and even just likes and dislike without pronouncing a game as "Fail", these criticisms tend to be more thought out and presented in a way that in the very least gives valid explanations as to why they see an issue.
On the flip side, nearing release there are also a large number of the "this is the best game ever" sort of threads or the "this is the WoW killer" threads and these are usually equally as biased as the Fail threads though not quite as common.
really both of these types of threads are misleading and in both cases deliberately so, while most people who frequent these sites know this and can take these threads for what they are, nearing a release of a game there are many people who do not often come to these sites and potentially take these types of posts at face value, it is an unfortunate fact that this does have an effect on sales to at least a small extent, so in theory an "epic fail" thread could be a self fulfilling prophecy.
Considering how you argue and construct your posts, I'd say he, and the poster that you quoted a few posts above, aren't too far off, really. It's not as though you would ever concede to something like that though, so whatever.
Despite the childish personal attacks, I'll bite.
Excuse me? Please refer to the bit I highlighted in orange... Those are your words, and looks an awful lot like a personal jab at my integrity... and you dare call me out on "personal attacks"? Nice job, hypocrite.
So what is your point exactly? That every gaming community in this history of time has had vigilante groups of sorts hell-bent on claiming that the game fails, despite the actual state of the game? Yeah, no shit - as if this isn't something that the majority of people already understand. The thing is, I've read many, many, MANY threads on multiple forums about this game, and I've spent days wading through it myself, and the complaints and/or criticism is usually the same and usually merited. What exactly have you been seeing that's more in the "blowing smoke" category? You didn't list any examples in your post, so you don't really elaborate on the point you're trying to make.
When you see a vast number of complaints pop-up in such a relatively small time frame, some of which from some of the most devoted fans of the series, it's pretty clear there are some genuine concerns. Sure, these issues obviously don't bother everyone and to some, they're not even issues at all, but to imply that the majority of the complaints around here and other forums are mainly just trolls with nothing better to do is a bit far-fetched, From what I've seen, most of the complaints seem reasonable.
I have *acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid*. Those are not the posts I'm talking about. Good grief. I literally can not make that point any clearer, and you still don't get it.
Honestly, if I still have to explain the point of my post to you and to whom it was addressed - yet again - after all the times I have already reitterated, then it's beyond pointless attempting to any further. I've explained myself well enough already. If you "don't get it" by now, I'll just assume you never will.
Personally, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying, why I'm saying it, and to whom I'm saying it and are just persisting for the sake of being obnoxious. Congratulations... you've got "obnoxious" down pat.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Why anyone would base their decision to play or not on some forum posts is beyond me. The OP made an obvious observation that anyone with half a brain would understand, and in that regard shouldn't even need to be said.
To quote the great TV personality Mr. Terry Tate: "that ain't nothing new baby".
The problem this time of course and with this game is that most of "those" posts are legitimate concerns stemming from 8 years of stubbornness from SE. We all know the game will be "ok", that doesn't even need to be said. That still doesn't change the fact that i'm disappointed at what this game is as apposed to what it could have been.
To someone who doesn't visit forums a lot, isn't familiar with the goings-on in said forums and takes everything they see at face value, you'd be surprised how influenced they can be...
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I would have to agree with the OP on the point that with every upcoming launch there is a rash of threads stating that said game is "Fail" a large number of which do not give detailed explanation and many of those that do give details are deliberately giving misinformation and put things in the worst light possible.
Stating this does not in any way invalidate all criticism of a game, there are threads that can and do constructively point out issues and concerns and even just likes and dislike without pronouncing a game as "Fail", these criticisms tend to be more thought out and presented in a way that in the very least gives valid explanations as to why they see an issue.
Bingo. My point exactly. Some criticism is valid. Not all of it is and should not be given equal consideration. That was my point. So there's at least a few people in this thread who understand what I'm getting at... which means I'm conveying myself just fine, at least to those attentive enough to pay attention to what I'm saying.
On the flip side, nearing release there are also a large number of the "this is the best game ever" sort of threads or the "this is the WoW killer" threads and these are usually equally as biased as the Fail threads though not quite as common.
really both of these types of threads are misleading and in both cases deliberately so, while most people who frequent these sites know this and can take these threads for what they are, nearing a release of a game there are many people who do not often come to these sites and potentially take these types of posts at face value, it is an unfortunate fact that this does have an effect on sales to at least a small extent, so in theory an "epic fail" thread could be a self fulfilling prophecy.
Ultimately, in an ideal world, I believe most people would make up their own mind. Again... I'm talking in an ideal world. However, word-of-mouth *is* a powerful and influential thing. So when you see thread after thread and post after post of people crying "fail!", it seems *really* damning, particularly to someone who doesn't frequent forums enough to readily separate the noise from the valid criticism. They see it as "mostly bad" and leave it at that.
Again, I've had conversations with these people.. on MSN. In FFXI... with people who simply don't spend much time even reading forums... much less posting on them. They reviewed some forums to get a "pulse" on the game, and came away thinking "man, so many people are saying this game is going to fail... maybe I should stay way from it?". It's these such conversations that prompted me to make my OP.... which some in this thread are dead-set now on attempting to derail and spin into something it isn't.
It's those people I am attempting to reach, by pointing out that what they're seeing with FFXIV is no different than they would see with any new MMO coming out and to not take it all to heart. There's some good criticism, and then there's a lot of crap. Both should not be treated equally.
As for the claims of "this game will be a WoW killer" and other such praise. Absolutely. There are people who say those kinds of things without basis, and they're equally off in their arguments. However, by far, the negative outweighs the positive. For every positive post I see, there are 10 others tearing it down.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
First off, I want to say another fine post Mike, always like reading your objective concerns and honest comments. One thing I would like to add to it though is the point that most if not all comments on forums prior to a games launch are based on minimal actual facts and first (albeit short) impressions.
Anyone who reads the forums should look at most posts as if they were done by a media review personality, the guy who rates every movie he sees and goes about telling the world how they should like it before/if they go see it themselves. The biggest difference is that on a movie review, the person wrting the review actually sat through 100% of what it had to offer before writing it. In the game world thats not entirely true, some review the game based on 1-2 hours of time spent looking, and most not looking very hard or far before they come back with the review.
Take for example this post I made a couple of days ago.
The entire thread was made to bring 'to light' a good blog about FFXIV which was not exactly a good blog afterall. Both the blog author and the thread opener didn't spend enough time in game before they felt they had enough facts to write thier review. A majority of the time too, forum negative reviewers have already stated the same thing in thier previous posts prior to them trying it out and coming back with 'what they seen'. I've actually seen a couple here that have posted saying the UI was terrible weeks before they actually got an open beta key to go try it themselves. Some say the same based off what they see in youtube videos.
The key isn't to outright ignore comments made by everyone on a game, but to read what they have and find out if what they say is true or not. Do the research and find out for yourself what the game is like, and usually best to go in objectively without bias because bias is usually the one thing that leads to a bad review in the first place. Dont base your own opinions on the opinions of another. Dont pull one reviewer viewpoint from the past and call it fact today unless it was in fact, a fact back then.
It goes along the same thing you said in your opening post, every game has and will have people who think it is fail and some go out of thier way to try and prove thier viewpoint to others over and over. Some of these people decide on thier view of the game long before it every comes to them to test it themselves. To them, a game could be good or bad based solely on the name of it, and that is when they decide to come up with 'the facts' of why it fails. They will move on no doubt, they always do.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Considering how you argue and construct your posts, I'd say he, and the poster that you quoted a few posts above, aren't too far off, really. It's not as though you would ever concede to something like that though, so whatever.
Despite the childish personal attacks, I'll bite.
Excuse me? Please refer to the bit I highlighted in orange... Those are your words, and looks an awful lot like a personal jab at my integrity... and you dare call me out on "personal attacks"? Nice job, hypocrite.
So what is your point exactly? That every gaming community in this history of time has had vigilante groups of sorts hell-bent on claiming that the game fails, despite the actual state of the game? Yeah, no shit - as if this isn't something that the majority of people already understand. The thing is, I've read many, many, MANY threads on multiple forums about this game, and I've spent days wading through it myself, and the complaints and/or criticism is usually the same and usually merited. What exactly have you been seeing that's more in the "blowing smoke" category? You didn't list any examples in your post, so you don't really elaborate on the point you're trying to make.
When you see a vast number of complaints pop-up in such a relatively small time frame, some of which from some of the most devoted fans of the series, it's pretty clear there are some genuine concerns. Sure, these issues obviously don't bother everyone and to some, they're not even issues at all, but to imply that the majority of the complaints around here and other forums are mainly just trolls with nothing better to do is a bit far-fetched, From what I've seen, most of the complaints seem reasonable.
I have *acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid*. Those are not the posts I'm talking about. Good grief. I literally can not make that point any clearer, and you still don't get it.
Honestly, if I still have to explain the point of my post to you and to whom it was addressed - yet again - after all the times I have already reitterated, then it's beyond pointless attempting to any further. I've explained myself well enough already. If you "don't get it" by now, I'll just assume you never will.
Personally, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying, why I'm saying it, and to whom I'm saying it and are just persisting for the sake of being obnoxious. Congratulations... you've got "obnoxious" down pat.
It wasn't really meant so much as a personal jab rather than an observation based on your seemingly unwavering bias for the game, but take it however you want.
Yeah, you acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid, yet you failed to provide any examples of the "posts you're talking about" that cast the game in an unfair light. Most of the complaint posts I've seen posted seem completely legitimate (aside from maybe the typical troll post here and there), so I don't really see who or what you're referring to exactly.
If you're going to make a thread like this, at least have some examples of what you're talking about.
Yeah, you acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid, yet you failed to provide any examples of the "posts you're talking about" that cast the game in an unfair light. Most of the complaint posts I've seen posted seem completely legitimate (aside from maybe the typical troll post here and there), so I don't really see who or what you're referring to exactly.
This thread wasn't started to debase the critics of the game, or to some how try and silence all of the posters that don't like the game for various reasons. It was made for non-regular forum visitors to explain (not to excuse) why there is so many negative posts here.
To the poster who said earlier that it's stupid to not buy a product based on someone else's opinion of said product. Are you serious? That's the whole point of any gaming magazine, Consumer Reports, Rotten Tomatoes, consumer reviews on Newegg, Amazon, or any other website that has end users giving their opinions on products.
Really now....
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Yeah, you acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid, yet you failed to provide any examples of the "posts you're talking about" that cast the game in an unfair light. Most of the complaint posts I've seen posted seem completely legitimate (aside from maybe the typical troll post here and there), so I don't really see who or what you're referring to exactly.
This thread wasn't started to debase the critics of the game, or to some how try and silence all of the posters that don't like the game for various reasons. It was made for non-regular forum visitors to explain (not to excuse) why there is so many negative posts here.
To the poster who said earlier that it's stupid to not buy a product based on someone else's opinion of said product. Are you serious? That's the whole point of any gaming magazine, Consumer Reports, Rotten Tomatoes, consumer reviews on Newegg, Amazon, or any other website that has end users giving their opinions on products.
Really now....
I get that, it's just, as someone who's spent many days playing the game as well, I don't really feel that many of the posters are out of line with what they're saying about the game. I'd agree with the OP's post in a second, if I thought the majority of the posters on this forums were trolling for the sake of making the game look worse than it is. I don't, however, think that's the case at all. Sure, many of the posters might be a little harsh in their critique, but considering how many of them were admittedly fervent fans of the series, it's not hard to blame them for showing some heated passion in their posts if they feel the game is under par.
I'll admit that it would be better if things weren't so heated around here, as it might scare away players that could have otherwise enjoyed the game despite what others might consider huge flaws, but what can you do? Logic and emotion aren't particularly good at coinciding together and gaming forums are great proof of that. I just try to weed out what seem like legitimate concerns/opinions from the obvious, blind-bias nonsense, just like I'd advise any novice forum user to do as well.
No reason to fight, this game is REALLY bad. That's it. End of story.
Lol, so if i understand if you dont like a game then it bad for everyone....... so all we have to do is just move along? Sorry sir but I LIKE the game so End of story.....
Hopefully most people know by now how to pull what data they can from this site and not pay attention to the overwhelming negativity that surrounds every single MMORPG here.
No reason to fight, this game is REALLY bad. That's it. End of story.
Lol, so if i understand if you dont like a game then it bad for everyone....... so all we have to do is just move along? Sorry sir but I LIKE the game so End of story.....
Well now we are two on the WE DONT LIKE side so TO BE CONTINUED...
No reason to fight, this game is REALLY bad. That's it. End of story.
Lol, so if i understand if you dont like a game then it bad for everyone....... so all we have to do is just move along? Sorry sir but I LIKE the game so End of story.....
Well now we are two on the WE DONT LIKE side so TO BE CONTINUED...
lol so just dont play.. and btw there will no TO BE CONTINUED... cause im done talking to you..
Hopefully most people know by now how to pull what data they can from this site and not pay attention to the overwhelming negativity that surrounds every single MMORPG here.
I would say the people who frequent this site do know this, however at any given time there are those who have only come here because they caught wind of some game and a Google search brought them here, and even more so nearing a launch.
even right now at 11pm PST there are over 900 guests many of which I am sure are not regular visitors.
To the OP, though I do get what you are saying, I think your point would have been better served if it was not associated with a particular game. It does give the appearance that you are attempting to counter negative opinions of FFXIV and as much as I dislike and disapprove of the "this game is Fail" type posts this thread seems almost counterproductive being posted in the FFXIV forum.
It is a great point for MMORPG.com and in fact all game forums in general, but here it pushes seeming like a fan boy trying to prove the critics invalid. which I would imagine is why you are seeing so much opposition.
Comments
Possibly. Point is, his "suspicion" is unwarranted. If I'd gone back and changed my post *after* he posted his, then sure.. I could understand it. As that's not what happened... well... yeah... Red Herring. Just sayin'.
Anyway... It's clear to me by now that there are some around here who are intent on completely ignoring or twisting the context of what I said, and why I posted it, despite my specific and deliberate effort to point it out in my OP and in subsequent posts.
My point's been made. People with enough intellectual honesty to read it as a whole, and not cherry-pick the bits they want to pick-apart will understand the point of it.
Some of you are clearly looking for a debate where none need exist.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Okay, so what language shall I explain it to you in, then, since Plain English doesn't seem to get through?
Maybe if I type it more slowly that'll help?
I've said not every post that says "fail!" should be given equal consideration because while some do raise valid criticisms, others don't. I have never said that no criticism of XIV is valid... as much as some of you are intent on painting it that way.
Again... some of you are reallllllly reaching looking for a fight here, and it's really quite sad.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well I for one appreciate your post Mike, and have been directing all of my non-daily-forum-visiting friends to it (without the replies) who are worried about all the negative posts.
I also agree with you, seems the people who are responding negatively or critically to your post are just trying to start a fight for no apparent reason. I guess maybe they are the ones that dislike FFXIV and hate to see someone put their ravings about how the game sucks into context?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
WSIMIKE, your not going to get your message through on these forums.
As numerous people have stated the worst part of an MMO is probably the forums that people dwell in, whether official, fansites, or media ones.
The internet gave everyone a voice, and at some point, everyone wants to say something that is pissing them off. Whether its a bad day in real life that equates to them coming here, or they truely are just upset the game is not for them, they will find faults whether they are true or not, again is subjective to each person. People who have a lot of post, or even only a few but in only one game, are passionate about their stance on a game, regardless of loving or disliking it. That emotion that swells is probably brought on by numerous things, but to see something you have been hoping to be what you wanted come to end in failure in your eyes, just burns people the wrong way.
Heheh.. I really have no idea what their goal is... Well, I do have an idea... but whatever.
My post was not aimed at the people who've already made up their mind about the game either way. It wasn't aimed at people who already spend a lot of time on forums. It's for those who don't follow forums a lot but might happen across here (and elsewhere) and see a lot of such posts, thinking them an accurate representation of what *everyone* thinks, or giving them all equal credibility... when some certainly do not deserve it. There are many valid criticisms. But there's also a lot of noise.
I'm not even specifically defending XIV so much as I'm saying, "this is par for the course.. It happens with every new MMO to come along... FFXIV was just the next in line... Once FFXIV launches and all the hubbub has settled down, the "fail" crowd will move on to the next big one to come along... be it GW2, ToR, TERA, Rift... you name it. They'll be there repeating the same mantra. The bigger the game, the louder the noise will be. ToR should be deafening. In that context, don't take every "fail" post you see to heart... much of it is just noise"
That's really all it boils down to and, again, I really don't get what people are picking a fight for lol.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Despite the childish personal attacks, I'll bite.
So what is your point exactly? That every gaming community in this history of time has had vigilante groups of sorts hell-bent on claiming that the game fails, despite the actual state of the game? Yeah, no shit - as if this isn't something that the majority of people already understand. The thing is, I've read many, many, MANY threads on multiple forums about this game, and I've spent days wading through it myself, and the complaints and/or criticism is usually the same and usually merited. What exactly have you been seeing that's more in the "blowing smoke" category? You didn't list any examples in your post, so you don't really elaborate on the point you're trying to make.
When you see a vast number of complaints pop-up in such a relatively small time frame, some of which from some of the most devoted fans of the series, it's pretty clear there are some genuine concerns. Sure, these issues obviously don't bother everyone and to some, they're not even issues at all, but to imply that the majority of the complaints around here and other forums are mainly just trolls with nothing better to do is a bit far-fetched, From what I've seen, most of the complaints seem reasonable.
Why anyone would base their decision to play or not on some forum posts is beyond me. The OP made an obvious observation that anyone with half a brain would understand, and in that regard shouldn't even need to be said.
To quote the great TV personality Mr. Terry Tate: "that ain't nothing new baby".
The problem this time of course and with this game is that most of "those" posts are legitimate concerns stemming from 8 years of stubbornness from SE. We all know the game will be "ok", that doesn't even need to be said. That still doesn't change the fact that i'm disappointed at what this game is as apposed to what it could have been.
News Flash: This thread needs a timeline illustration.
When something is really good and devs had made a really serious effort despice ppl's taste they accept its succeess..some exceptions are always but the majority wont deny a good product is good.
I would have to agree with the OP on the point that with every upcoming launch there is a rash of threads stating that said game is "Fail" a large number of which do not give detailed explanation and many of those that do give details are deliberately giving misinformation and put things in the worst light possible.
Stating this does not in any way invalidate all criticism of a game, there are threads that can and do constructively point out issues and concerns and even just likes and dislike without pronouncing a game as "Fail", these criticisms tend to be more thought out and presented in a way that in the very least gives valid explanations as to why they see an issue.
On the flip side, nearing release there are also a large number of the "this is the best game ever" sort of threads or the "this is the WoW killer" threads and these are usually equally as biased as the Fail threads though not quite as common.
really both of these types of threads are misleading and in both cases deliberately so, while most people who frequent these sites know this and can take these threads for what they are, nearing a release of a game there are many people who do not often come to these sites and potentially take these types of posts at face value, it is an unfortunate fact that this does have an effect on sales to at least a small extent, so in theory an "epic fail" thread could be a self fulfilling prophecy.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To someone who doesn't visit forums a lot, isn't familiar with the goings-on in said forums and takes everything they see at face value, you'd be surprised how influenced they can be...
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
First off, I want to say another fine post Mike, always like reading your objective concerns and honest comments. One thing I would like to add to it though is the point that most if not all comments on forums prior to a games launch are based on minimal actual facts and first (albeit short) impressions.
Anyone who reads the forums should look at most posts as if they were done by a media review personality, the guy who rates every movie he sees and goes about telling the world how they should like it before/if they go see it themselves. The biggest difference is that on a movie review, the person wrting the review actually sat through 100% of what it had to offer before writing it. In the game world thats not entirely true, some review the game based on 1-2 hours of time spent looking, and most not looking very hard or far before they come back with the review.
Take for example this post I made a couple of days ago.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3776734#3776734
The entire thread was made to bring 'to light' a good blog about FFXIV which was not exactly a good blog afterall. Both the blog author and the thread opener didn't spend enough time in game before they felt they had enough facts to write thier review. A majority of the time too, forum negative reviewers have already stated the same thing in thier previous posts prior to them trying it out and coming back with 'what they seen'. I've actually seen a couple here that have posted saying the UI was terrible weeks before they actually got an open beta key to go try it themselves. Some say the same based off what they see in youtube videos.
The key isn't to outright ignore comments made by everyone on a game, but to read what they have and find out if what they say is true or not. Do the research and find out for yourself what the game is like, and usually best to go in objectively without bias because bias is usually the one thing that leads to a bad review in the first place. Dont base your own opinions on the opinions of another. Dont pull one reviewer viewpoint from the past and call it fact today unless it was in fact, a fact back then.
It goes along the same thing you said in your opening post, every game has and will have people who think it is fail and some go out of thier way to try and prove thier viewpoint to others over and over. Some of these people decide on thier view of the game long before it every comes to them to test it themselves. To them, a game could be good or bad based solely on the name of it, and that is when they decide to come up with 'the facts' of why it fails. They will move on no doubt, they always do.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
It wasn't really meant so much as a personal jab rather than an observation based on your seemingly unwavering bias for the game, but take it however you want.
Yeah, you acknowledged that some of the criticism is valid, yet you failed to provide any examples of the "posts you're talking about" that cast the game in an unfair light. Most of the complaint posts I've seen posted seem completely legitimate (aside from maybe the typical troll post here and there), so I don't really see who or what you're referring to exactly.
If you're going to make a thread like this, at least have some examples of what you're talking about.
This thread wasn't started to debase the critics of the game, or to some how try and silence all of the posters that don't like the game for various reasons. It was made for non-regular forum visitors to explain (not to excuse) why there is so many negative posts here.
To the poster who said earlier that it's stupid to not buy a product based on someone else's opinion of said product. Are you serious? That's the whole point of any gaming magazine, Consumer Reports, Rotten Tomatoes, consumer reviews on Newegg, Amazon, or any other website that has end users giving their opinions on products.
Really now....
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
basing off one opinion = bad, basing off many opinions=good *thumbs up sign*
I get that, it's just, as someone who's spent many days playing the game as well, I don't really feel that many of the posters are out of line with what they're saying about the game. I'd agree with the OP's post in a second, if I thought the majority of the posters on this forums were trolling for the sake of making the game look worse than it is. I don't, however, think that's the case at all. Sure, many of the posters might be a little harsh in their critique, but considering how many of them were admittedly fervent fans of the series, it's not hard to blame them for showing some heated passion in their posts if they feel the game is under par.
I'll admit that it would be better if things weren't so heated around here, as it might scare away players that could have otherwise enjoyed the game despite what others might consider huge flaws, but what can you do? Logic and emotion aren't particularly good at coinciding together and gaming forums are great proof of that. I just try to weed out what seem like legitimate concerns/opinions from the obvious, blind-bias nonsense, just like I'd advise any novice forum user to do as well.
Lol, so if i understand if you dont like a game then it bad for everyone....... so all we have to do is just move along? Sorry sir but I LIKE the game so End of story.....
Hopefully most people know by now how to pull what data they can from this site and not pay attention to the overwhelming negativity that surrounds every single MMORPG here.
Please dont compare FF14 to Eve, Because Eve had made its experience and his loyal player base, not FF14. Dont mix up IP fanbase and game fanbase.
And i do agree with point 1 to 6. especially point 1... UI made for console always sucks when u play on PC.
Well now we are two on the WE DONT LIKE side so TO BE CONTINUED...
lol so just dont play.. and btw there will no TO BE CONTINUED... cause im done talking to you..
That explains EVERYTHING.
Entropia? *shudder* talk about niche.
Shadus
I would say the people who frequent this site do know this, however at any given time there are those who have only come here because they caught wind of some game and a Google search brought them here, and even more so nearing a launch.
even right now at 11pm PST there are over 900 guests many of which I am sure are not regular visitors.
To the OP, though I do get what you are saying, I think your point would have been better served if it was not associated with a particular game. It does give the appearance that you are attempting to counter negative opinions of FFXIV and as much as I dislike and disapprove of the "this game is Fail" type posts this thread seems almost counterproductive being posted in the FFXIV forum.
It is a great point for MMORPG.com and in fact all game forums in general, but here it pushes seeming like a fan boy trying to prove the critics invalid. which I would imagine is why you are seeing so much opposition.