Any review is suspect. They all have a bias, trying to determine what that is can be tricky:)
As to how this site and the opinions of posters here hold up? Well, actually, it is mostly pertty good if you are a "hard core" gamer.
The majority of people here seem to get heavliy into games. And spend quite a bit of hours every week playing. If you keep that in mind as you read any reviews of players here, you can get an idea of the over all game.
I don't know exactly what you mean with 'hardcore', if you mean the powerleveler and hardcore raider or the 'MMO vets', the MMO gamers who have been playing all kinds of MMO's for years now.
I'd say that the MMO gamers visiting and posting here are the very opinionated and - by the impressions when reading the forums - jaded and easily bored MMO gamers with a considerable number of years of MMO gaming under the belt. Possibly jaded and more intolerant than the average MMO gamer bc of the many years of playing MMO's.
Personally I don't mind people being critical towards MMO games or game companies, but that's not the same as cynical; what you often see and especially here on mmorpg.com's forums is that objectivity and perspective quickly gets lost, debates get polarised, namecalling with all kinds of tags as 'fanboi' and 'hater' and 'troll' tags fly around, and in the emotionally heated up discussions and rants you rarely see people conceding to sensible arguments made by the other party (parties). Which is a shame, because truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I suspect that a large amount of the negativity towards the game comes from people who are upset that their magical gaming computer doesn't run the game very well ("but it runs WoW just fine at max settings!")....
I consider these forums entertainment, not a source of information. ^.^
As for reviews, though...I try games for myself, since everybody's tastes are different.
There are negative articles out there waiting to be released, but they can't put them up as SE still can legally take those down with a request. Come launch day though, I'm sure we'll see plenty of the flip side.
How can any site review an MMO in open beta? MMO's should not be reviewed for at least 3 months if not 6 after release date. This is why the MMO industry is having problems people expect release date to be a final product. We are way to hard on MMO developers right now.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
SE HAD TO HAVE paid them off. Move along fanboi, everyone with a half a brain knows this is the worst mmo in the history of mmos. Stop embarassing yourself.
You wrong, that honor went to STO.
They need to get their money back, STO got horrible reviews.
How can any site review an MMO in open beta? MMO's should not be reviewed for at least 3 months if not 6 after release date. This is why the MMO industry is having problems people expect release date to be a final product. We are way to hard on MMO developers right now.
Any decent reviewer will state up front that MMO games change quite a bit as time goes along. But, really, saying that MMO games should not be reviewed on launch is just ..naive?
If the game is being sold and has a sub/cash shop to it, then it can and should be reviewed and let the chips fall where they may.
I will agree that reviewing games in Beta is pushing it a bit. But once they go to market and expect cash from customers, then they should be held to the same standard as any other product, or service.
How can any site review an MMO in open beta? MMO's should not be reviewed for at least 3 months if not 6 after release date. This is why the MMO industry is having problems people expect release date to be a final product. We are way to hard on MMO developers right now.
Any decent reviewer will state up front that MMO games change quite a bit as time goes along. But, really, saying that MMO games should not be reviewed on launch is just ..naive?
If the game is being sold and has a sub/cash shop to it, then it can and should be reviewed and let the chips fall where they may.
I will agree that reviewing games in Beta is pushing it a bit. But once they go to market and expect cash from customers, then they should be held to the same standard as any other product, or service.
Yep. It's exactly why these same reviewers will rate large patch updates and expansions.
Things like UI lag...the good reviewers won't rate the game down because we all know it's an issue SE will eventually have to resolve. But it's free game for other things, like the interface system. I can see many reviewers being on the negative side on a menu heavy UI. Things like those are free game, cause they ain't changing any time soon.
Don't you think a 6 on UI is a...little high even for the fanboy? I mean "at least it has a UI" is not exactly a pro. Given all your cons regarding UI I would think you would find 5 as an average rating on a scale of 1-10 and from your informatoin it would appear that this game is not...standard.
The other overt fanboyism shows when you provide informatoin regarding PC specs and needed fixes (UI,Lag,ect) then state, "Overall i think that this game is going to do quite well." Considering the need of a high rig along with mentioned cons, do you really believe this game will flurish the first year of release? Indicating that SE is capable of fixing the problems within a year is just agreeing that they decided to OB a game that they wanted everyone to see as...unfinished. A good fanboy would at the least add something on the pro's to make it look...playable.
I am also confused by your statement, "The game has some great features, like Leves. (quests that you can take to get money and experience, sometimes items)." I mean, is such a feature that provide these items a little...carryed away?
I understand that negative threads can be unsetting but, to give new players an idea that this game is anywhere near WoW is a little...deceptive. Facts of the game are facts and if they are there it is important to share them.
Overall, what I see is a hater who is trying to troll out to the fanboys who would agree that FFXIV will be ready for release and the ultimate...game to play.
Hey, mate, easy on the wrist slitting remarks, no need for that
Originally posted by seabeast
Don't you think a 6 on UI is a...little high even for the fanboy? I mean "at least it has a UI" is not exactly a pro. Given all your cons regarding UI I would think you would find 5 as an average rating on a scale of 1-10 and from your informatoin it would appear that this game is not...standard.
(snips)
I understand that negative threads can be unsetting but, to give new players an idea that this game is anywhere near WoW is a little...deceptive. Facts of the game are facts and if they are there it is important to share them.
Overall, what I see is a hater who is trying to troll out to the fanboys who would agree that FFXIV will be ready for release and the ultimate...game to play.
I've said it in another post here, these reviews/impressions I posted in the OP were actually the very first 3 I found in searching for previews/impressions articles outside of the mmorpg.com site. I haven't edited it, just copy pasted it as the original article writers posted it.
The phenomenon I encountered was actually by accident, that FFXIV previews/impressions on other sites tend to pay more attention to the positive aspects of the game, and previews/impressions on mmorpg.com tend to pay more attention to the negative aspects of the game. Which was a surprise that I found funny; I generally am of the opinion that posters on mmorpg.com are on average more focused on the negative aspects of MMORPG games and gaming than on the positive aspects, not just here in the FFXIV section but regarding all kinds of games.
I intend to make a composite review, sort of a meta review with impressions and opinions from all kinds of sources, when there is more actual data at hand than now, and then see how reviews on mmorpg.com generally measure up with equally thorough (and more objective?) reviews from other sources in their reviewing of the several gameplay aspects. Will be interesting to see any differences when laid next to eachother.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personnally anyone who claims their review is dead on and 100% correct, while implying others are simply wrong, aren't producing quaility reviews. It simply screems its coming from either a fanboi or hater.
Lol just like your opinions on the game from your may posts you have made, clearly puts you in 1 of those categories.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
I don't get it, I saw no reviews linked in the original post. I saw a couple links to non-paid anonymous gamers impressions of beta and a hands on preview (those are always glowing). Real reviews come from ign, gamespot, EGM, game informer, gamepro, etc. Nothing else is worth more than a single person's 2 cents. But the fact of the matter is, most of the 2 cent negative reviews are adding up to some serious change.
what the OP doesnt tell us is that all those 8's and 9s were on a scale of 1 to 900,000!
Awww, whats wrong, don't like that somebody has a different Unbias opinion.
For a guy with a user name of professor, you sure are an idiot.
EVERYONE's opinion is biased moron, biased to their own personal preferences. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, it's an oxymoron. And God only knows why in the hell you capitalized the word unbias in the middle of a sentence.
I think all those reviews were pretty generous, considering the scant amount of content in the game. I mean the story quests are cool but that's probably 5-10 hours of total content if they are all about the same length. All the grinding in between them really doesn't excuse or make up for however good or bad those story quests might be. Frankly i found the level one quest kinda confusing like most JRPG's. I kept sitting there going, wtf is going on here?
Let's face it, every person's review is biased, some people are more biased to the extreme ends, some people are less biased, but there is a personal subjectivity in all of them. You only have to look up a site like rottentomatoes.com how opinions can differ, and those are people who do reviews continuously for a living.
This makes the beta reviews/impressions I posted in the OP as valid as the other reviews posted in this FFXIV forumsection.
Besides, there can't be reviews of FFXIV yet, no matter how much ppl yell 'review' in their thread title (which I shamelessly, tongue-in-cheekly, copied) in other opinion threads here in the FFXIV section.
The game isn't out yet; so it's all just impressions so far as the beta permitted people to see or test.
In the impressions of some people the good aspects defeated the bad aspects of the game in beta in the end, and for other people it was vice versa.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't get it, I saw no reviews linked in the original post. I saw a couple links to non-paid anonymous gamers impressions of beta and a hands on preview (those are always glowing). Real reviews come from ign, gamespot, EGM, game informer, gamepro, etc. Nothing else is worth more than a single person's 2 cents. But the fact of the matter is, most of the 2 cent negative reviews are adding up to some serious change.
You're right that negative chatter leads to improvements. However, I highly doubt it's the insightful ramblings you read here that have anything to do with it. That's what beta is for, as well as beta forums and support sites.
This site is not the best place to gather valuable information, far to much negative focus in general on every topic. People here tend to seek out negative information, only for the purpose of plastering it all over to enrage fanbois and draw their fire. It works much in the same way the old saying about crying wolf does. People here tend to cry wolf at the sight of a mouse. Meaning its hard to tell whether there's an actual issue, or it's just more of the same MMORPG hyperbole and doom.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There was a preview written by obvious fanboi in mmosite. I guess all the hatertrolls from the depths of mmorpg.com went there to make evil comments and all the real testers had the day off or something.
Well i'm still playing OB tho i actually wanna stop...just can't...looks so good. In all seriousness game is pissing me off in all aspects. it's getting more laggy, mouse still feels heavy when u're scrolling and UI is HORRIBLE, it's soooo slooooow...selling items, buying, opening quests/stat/inventory window...everything is slow and i mean around 3-10 second. It get's really frustrating sometimes and i just don't see this game going final this month, it looks more like begging of CB. Like i said before game looks amazing and that's the only thing keeping me playing! Worse is when final version is out, only way to feel changes will be to buy the game...which sucks lol..wouldn't wanna buy the game in this state.
what the OP doesnt tell us is that all those 8's and 9s were on a scale of 1 to 900,000!
Awww, whats wrong, don't like that somebody has a different Unbias opinion.
For a guy with a user name of professor, you sure are an idiot.
Thats very biased of you!
EVERYONE's opinion is biased moron, biased to their own personal preferences. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, it's an oxymoron. And God only knows why in the hell you capitalized the word unbias in the middle of a sentence. Why not, did i miss the forum rules about punctuation, who is to say I don't have dyslexia? You abviously missed them in regard to personal attacks.
I was using the word unbiased to emphazise a point to the obviously biased post, using the word "Impartial" would not have had the same effect.
I think all those reviews were pretty generous, considering the scant amount of content in the game. I mean the story quests are cool but that's probably 5-10 hours of total content if they are all about the same length. All the grinding in between them really doesn't excuse or make up for however good or bad those story quests might be. Frankly i found the level one quest kinda confusing like most JRPG's. I kept sitting there going, wtf is going on here?
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
Comments
I don't know exactly what you mean with 'hardcore', if you mean the powerleveler and hardcore raider or the 'MMO vets', the MMO gamers who have been playing all kinds of MMO's for years now.
I'd say that the MMO gamers visiting and posting here are the very opinionated and - by the impressions when reading the forums - jaded and easily bored MMO gamers with a considerable number of years of MMO gaming under the belt. Possibly jaded and more intolerant than the average MMO gamer bc of the many years of playing MMO's.
Personally I don't mind people being critical towards MMO games or game companies, but that's not the same as cynical; what you often see and especially here on mmorpg.com's forums is that objectivity and perspective quickly gets lost, debates get polarised, namecalling with all kinds of tags as 'fanboi' and 'hater' and 'troll' tags fly around, and in the emotionally heated up discussions and rants you rarely see people conceding to sensible arguments made by the other party (parties). Which is a shame, because truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I suspect that a large amount of the negativity towards the game comes from people who are upset that their magical gaming computer doesn't run the game very well ("but it runs WoW just fine at max settings!")....
I consider these forums entertainment, not a source of information. ^.^
As for reviews, though...I try games for myself, since everybody's tastes are different.
There are negative articles out there waiting to be released, but they can't put them up as SE still can legally take those down with a request. Come launch day though, I'm sure we'll see plenty of the flip side.
How can any site review an MMO in open beta? MMO's should not be reviewed for at least 3 months if not 6 after release date. This is why the MMO industry is having problems people expect release date to be a final product. We are way to hard on MMO developers right now.
--John Ruskin
How can you review a game community in open beta? There is no game community.
They need to get their money back, STO got horrible reviews.
Any decent reviewer will state up front that MMO games change quite a bit as time goes along. But, really, saying that MMO games should not be reviewed on launch is just ..naive?
If the game is being sold and has a sub/cash shop to it, then it can and should be reviewed and let the chips fall where they may.
I will agree that reviewing games in Beta is pushing it a bit. But once they go to market and expect cash from customers, then they should be held to the same standard as any other product, or service.
Yep. It's exactly why these same reviewers will rate large patch updates and expansions.
Things like UI lag...the good reviewers won't rate the game down because we all know it's an issue SE will eventually have to resolve. But it's free game for other things, like the interface system. I can see many reviewers being on the negative side on a menu heavy UI. Things like those are free game, cause they ain't changing any time soon.
Don't you think a 6 on UI is a...little high even for the fanboy? I mean "at least it has a UI" is not exactly a pro. Given all your cons regarding UI I would think you would find 5 as an average rating on a scale of 1-10 and from your informatoin it would appear that this game is not...standard.
The other overt fanboyism shows when you provide informatoin regarding PC specs and needed fixes (UI,Lag,ect) then state, "Overall i think that this game is going to do quite well." Considering the need of a high rig along with mentioned cons, do you really believe this game will flurish the first year of release? Indicating that SE is capable of fixing the problems within a year is just agreeing that they decided to OB a game that they wanted everyone to see as...unfinished. A good fanboy would at the least add something on the pro's to make it look...playable.
I am also confused by your statement, "The game has some great features, like Leves. (quests that you can take to get money and experience, sometimes items)." I mean, is such a feature that provide these items a little...carryed away?
I understand that negative threads can be unsetting but, to give new players an idea that this game is anywhere near WoW is a little...deceptive. Facts of the game are facts and if they are there it is important to share them.
Overall, what I see is a hater who is trying to troll out to the fanboys who would agree that FFXIV will be ready for release and the ultimate...game to play.
Awww, what's wrong? Don't like that somebody has a different opinion than you on the internet? GTFO and /wrists pl0x.
Hey, mate, easy on the wrist slitting remarks, no need for that
I've said it in another post here, these reviews/impressions I posted in the OP were actually the very first 3 I found in searching for previews/impressions articles outside of the mmorpg.com site. I haven't edited it, just copy pasted it as the original article writers posted it.
The phenomenon I encountered was actually by accident, that FFXIV previews/impressions on other sites tend to pay more attention to the positive aspects of the game, and previews/impressions on mmorpg.com tend to pay more attention to the negative aspects of the game. Which was a surprise that I found funny; I generally am of the opinion that posters on mmorpg.com are on average more focused on the negative aspects of MMORPG games and gaming than on the positive aspects, not just here in the FFXIV section but regarding all kinds of games.
I intend to make a composite review, sort of a meta review with impressions and opinions from all kinds of sources, when there is more actual data at hand than now, and then see how reviews on mmorpg.com generally measure up with equally thorough (and more objective?) reviews from other sources in their reviewing of the several gameplay aspects. Will be interesting to see any differences when laid next to eachother.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Lol just like your opinions on the game from your may posts you have made, clearly puts you in 1 of those categories.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
Lol at fail post. It sums you up nicely.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
I don't get it, I saw no reviews linked in the original post. I saw a couple links to non-paid anonymous gamers impressions of beta and a hands on preview (those are always glowing). Real reviews come from ign, gamespot, EGM, game informer, gamepro, etc. Nothing else is worth more than a single person's 2 cents. But the fact of the matter is, most of the 2 cent negative reviews are adding up to some serious change.
For a guy with a user name of professor, you sure are an idiot.
EVERYONE's opinion is biased moron, biased to their own personal preferences. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion, it's an oxymoron. And God only knows why in the hell you capitalized the word unbias in the middle of a sentence.
I think all those reviews were pretty generous, considering the scant amount of content in the game. I mean the story quests are cool but that's probably 5-10 hours of total content if they are all about the same length. All the grinding in between them really doesn't excuse or make up for however good or bad those story quests might be. Frankly i found the level one quest kinda confusing like most JRPG's. I kept sitting there going, wtf is going on here?
Let's face it, every person's review is biased, some people are more biased to the extreme ends, some people are less biased, but there is a personal subjectivity in all of them. You only have to look up a site like rottentomatoes.com how opinions can differ, and those are people who do reviews continuously for a living.
This makes the beta reviews/impressions I posted in the OP as valid as the other reviews posted in this FFXIV forumsection.
Besides, there can't be reviews of FFXIV yet, no matter how much ppl yell 'review' in their thread title (which I shamelessly, tongue-in-cheekly, copied) in other opinion threads here in the FFXIV section.
The game isn't out yet; so it's all just impressions so far as the beta permitted people to see or test.
In the impressions of some people the good aspects defeated the bad aspects of the game in beta in the end, and for other people it was vice versa.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You're right that negative chatter leads to improvements. However, I highly doubt it's the insightful ramblings you read here that have anything to do with it. That's what beta is for, as well as beta forums and support sites.
This site is not the best place to gather valuable information, far to much negative focus in general on every topic. People here tend to seek out negative information, only for the purpose of plastering it all over to enrage fanbois and draw their fire. It works much in the same way the old saying about crying wolf does. People here tend to cry wolf at the sight of a mouse. Meaning its hard to tell whether there's an actual issue, or it's just more of the same MMORPG hyperbole and doom.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There was a preview written by obvious fanboi in mmosite. I guess all the hatertrolls from the depths of mmorpg.com went there to make evil comments and all the real testers had the day off or something.
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-09-13/ffxiv_a_replay_of_tradition_or_no_better,1.shtml
Here's one:
Well i'm still playing OB tho i actually wanna stop...just can't...looks so good. In all seriousness game is pissing me off in all aspects. it's getting more laggy, mouse still feels heavy when u're scrolling and UI is HORRIBLE, it's soooo slooooow...selling items, buying, opening quests/stat/inventory window...everything is slow and i mean around 3-10 second. It get's really frustrating sometimes and i just don't see this game going final this month, it looks more like begging of CB. Like i said before game looks amazing and that's the only thing keeping me playing! Worse is when final version is out, only way to feel changes will be to buy the game...which sucks lol..wouldn't wanna buy the game in this state.
said on 2010-09-13 17:56:42X
Obvious hatertroll amirite?
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard