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Enough with the monthly fees, item malls and gimmicks
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
1. Starcraft 2 - 1.5 mill units iin 48 hours and it looks like it may hit close to 4 million by the end of the year. Blizzard was surving just fine on their game sales before WoW was even thought of.
2. Halo: Reach - $200 million in 24 hours. Last time I checked Bungie has not filed for bankrupcy yet...
3. Borderlands - Sells 3 million as of Feb 2010 and still selling. Gearbox not filing for bankrupcy either anytime soon.
4. Mass Effect 2 - Sells 2 million units in a week. Bioware lasting 15 years with no monthly fees,item malls or cash shops.
5. Modern Warfare 2 - 12 million units and last I checked Activision is still surviving, barely...
All these great games outselling just about any AAA mmo on the market today and the developers last I checked the companies above are still making great games. The point here is that if you make a quality game it sells itself. No need for monthly fees, item malls or gimmicks to be successful. The only way to be successful is hard work, dedication and make quality games. Sadly most mmo developers do not even follow any of those standards. Perhaps we all should take a real hard look if monthly fees, cash shops and item malls are really needed for mmo to be successful.
Comments
All the games you listed don't require much of an upkeep.
MMOs have a longer upkeep list.
Server costs.
Constant development costs.
Constant customer service costs.
Just to name a few.
I think Blizzard spends around 50 million a year on upkeep just for WoW. Although, they make more than a billion a year.
They could actually cover costs just by charging a dollar a month.
So they could get by with a much cheaper monthly cost, but then they couldn't fill their swimming pools with cash.
I keep thinking and thinking about it - "DLCs" and Expansions should be the perfect formula for an AAA high-popularity MMO that is made to last. The rest is just greed or a slippery slope that harms the previously mentioned qualities.
We have folks against P2P and folks against F2P. But I doubt there would be anywhere close this amount of folks against a real B2P featuring nothing else.
The consumer does not need to pay to maintain his game access, and only pays when he has done the current content and is willing to play more content. It's as simple as it could get in a developer-player business relationship.
Its called a bank loan that covers the costs of tools, software and hardware, not to mention not all hardware and tools are bought, they get leased out for a fee per month. If you are saying that the $200 million that Bungie made in 1 day is not enough of money then can I have what you are smoking ? You also heard of downloadable content which sells extremely well ?
Unless you are your own publisher then publishers take care of the customer service.
50 million a year for WoW ? Please tell us in detail how that happens ?
Yes I agree mmos do cost money but there is a huge misconception that mmos cost mega million bucks to run. Also there is very little that serperates from a mmo and a non mmo. MMOs have larger land masses and persistant worlds but that doesn't mean they cost a ton more of money to make.
you are really ignorant if you think a regular game costs as much upkeep as an mmo. Just think of how much content WoW comes out with in between expansions as a perfect example.
compare guild wars 1 or diablo 1 or 2 to WoW
I don't disagree with you about subscription fees being largely a sham, but no one is going to believe you unless you address the upkeep question. And no one will believe you, despite logic and numbers, unless they see a highly successful, "AAA" MMO title, manage to do well based on a B2P model. It just won't happen.
But I do hope the proof will be along shortly though.
So, you're suggesting that MMO makers take out continual loans to keep their games running? That oughta go real well.
Sure, the game can run for a few years off the box sales, but what happens after that?
If you want to continually pay for more content... downloadable content, then what's the difference of a sub... either way, you're paying for more content. If you want to do that with a sub game, just play the current content and cancel your sub until they release more content.
Google, "Wow upkeep"
Small MMOs ie, like Darkfall, and MO can probably be run for a few thousand a month. And, we're not talking about initial development costs, we're talking continual upkeep.
*Shakes Head and Laughs*
There's a game that's already gone this route. Guild Wars. In the last 5 years it's released less content than Lord of the Rings Online did in its first year, and that's discounting the fact that LotRO at launch was like 10 times larger than Guild Wars at launch.
MMOs without monthly fees = development slowing to a crawl.
I'm not a cheapskate, I'd rather pay my monthly and get frequent content in return.
Then again I differ from your average gamer in that I'm not an ADD-riddled mutant and would PREFER to find one GOOD MMO and play it for 3-5 years as opposed to playing a new game every month.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
The games you listed are all ran on the one players computer/console during multi player. MMO's require very expensive servers to hold thousands of players at the same time, which require constant upkeep and upgrade to keep up with the jones. Which is why all MMO's have server down time every week.
While $15 a month per person is way more than they need, I'm sure at least 2-5 of those dollars are going to the server costs.
The tools Blizzard used to make vanilla WoW are the same tools they used to make BC, Lich King and Cataclysm. It did not cost them extra money to use the same tools. You are saying each espansion costs more money when they use the same tools. Who told you that myth ?
You are so wrong it's painful.
Spend less time posting random crap on the internet and MORE time reading random crap on the internet.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41586/World-of-WarCraft-Costs-200-Million-to-Maintain
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Guess what server Guild Wasr 2 is running on ? The same exact server as the original Guild Wars except they upgraded the options on the same server. Guild Wars is not a mmo. Guild Wars 2 is.
There's no doubt they add more features to the tools, plus, they have to pay their developers to use those tools.
Wrong
Blizzard keeps a team to upgrade change and maintain the tools they use for designing wow, in fact they're hiring more even... what do they get paid with? More upkeep (This job is specific to world of warcraft, not a new game.)
proof? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/careers/posting.html?id=1000073
That is $200 million since launch and it is closing in on 7 years soon. Less typing and more comprehending what you read. Blizzard made over $258 million with just retail sales alone and according to the link that number should be even higher because when WoW was released the game was $50.00. If you think WoW could not survive on downloadable content rather than subscription fees then you need to read more than I do.
http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/07/30/npd-world-of-warcraft-has-sold-8-6-million-boxes-at-retail/
Guess who makes Guild Wars...
Who makes Guild Wars has nothing to do with it.
The upkeep article was created in 2008, 4 years.. 200 million = 50 million a year.
So imagine if Blizzard charged $15 EVERY patch, aka, downloadable content. It would still cost about the same as a monthly sub.
It's simple they charge what they can get away with. Currently this is $15 a month in NA and Europe. Do the expences equal $15 a month per user? For something like WOW probably alot less in fact with alot of users in China and other Asian countries they charge alot less and still make a profit.
Box sales are basicly to cover development costs you know the 3 plus years before the game is released where the company basicly exists on loans and doesn't get any income from the product. The real profit (and I guess reason why so many MMO games can survive for years on less than 300k subscribers) is in the $15 a month per user. Will the price drop? Don't see that happening ever I figure it will stay about the same until the monthly running costs creep up to where the profit per month per user is in the cents rather than dollars then the monthly sub will probably jump up to $20 or Blizzards next MMO comes out and they charge $20 per month because more people will pay it than not.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
last time i checked arenanet, and 200 million in 6 years is better than 50 mill a year of upkeep for World of warcraft. about 30 somethingmil a year of upkeep.
Taken right from your link. - $200 million since the game launched in 2004. That is over 6 years ago who cares when the article was made because that is totally irrelevant. Either way you already proved my point that no monthly fees, item malls and cash shops are needed for mmos to run. The other point is that it is a total lie, a myth that has been spread by mmo developers just for the sake of their own greediness.
It's still to be determined if they can get by now they're making an actual MMO. Their bandwidth costs are going up for sure.
Dude... seriously, first, that wasn't my link... second... THE ARTICLE WAS POSTED IN 2008. He's saying since launch IN 2008! 4 years. When the article was made is not irrelevant... it's a difference of 2 years, which would change the yearly upkeep figure.
Who cares if I proved your point... My point is you're still being charged for content either way so who cares?
You cannot compare a single player to an MMO. A single player game has a begining and an end. And MMO is in constant evolution, that require money on a permanent basis. The 15$ you pay each month is not only for the bandwith it's for update, patches and new content.
When a single player game is released, the game is done. And if you ever get new content (DLC's) you pay for it.
So you cannot compare single player game to MMO's.
LMAO! Can't really start your morning better than with a good laugh
TOR developers/owners would have some sleepless nights ahead would they try to cover their development costs with box sales only. $150 million spend, about $50/box... tell us OP, how many boxes would they need to sell just to break even?
Of course, investors like to make a profit. Guess what this would do to people who throw money to these projects? How many AAA titles would you see in the future?
Everyone involved needs to get paid, all pre-costs before release must be paid, shipping/receiving, sales, sales reps, promotionals etc on and on as well as others stating upkeep, customer service, dev teams working on new content, servers, company employes, as well as the people who put up the money in the first place want their money back including the profit on top of what they were promised along with the original loans all must be repaid and much more through out the entire time the product is offered. Not to mention the the people at the head of the line who own the company and its products that want their money back and profits, profits and more profits.
No one makes the games to break even. They need that money to invest in new gaming products and pre-release costs, just to keep the circle going, so they can make money. The guys at the top arent worried about pleasing people, their in it for money.
Having to pay no subs, not worrying about item malls would be nice. Paying nothing would be nice.
Show me a genuine detailed business model where you can get away without charging a cent, and explain how you can afford everything/everyone to continiously release new content without collapsing your business and I'll change my stance and jump on your side.
A game is just that... a game, not an emotional crutch.