DAoC had the best PvE of any game I ever played. People seem to forget that it has a dedicated PvE server that was cooperative throughout the 3 realms. Like Mordred, one toon to see it all, but all PvE. The grouping combinations were awesome, and character roles became very interesting especially in the epic dungeons. There is also the /duel option to stem some bloodlust.
after getting the mmorpg news letter and seeing the last statement
If you love PvP and can put up with a purely one dimensional experience then absolutely try this game out. If you are however looking for an immersive MMORPG with great PvE, then ultimately this is not the game for you
I had to wonder how stupid the reviewer is, he clearly did not do a proper job on his research for this review since as others have stated there is a server dedicated to PvE, this reviewer will soon be working for a small town news paper doing movie reviews that he has obviously not seen. and while the leveling curve for DAoC has been made a flat line almost if the player chooses to actually level up a toon the old fashioned way they can, and there are players that still believe in playing a toon to 50 and doing the MLs and getting the arty credits instead of just buying them from the merchants in ToA.
It took me all of five days to reach level 50 with a mixture of questing, solo grind and also grouping with level 50's.
I took my time--I love alts--and didn't get my first level 50 until after a year playing DAoC back in the early days of the game. I love the "grind" that was spread all over the world--find a spot and kill mobs. Get tired of that spot then go exploring until you find other mobs at an appropriate level and kill them. You even got an XP bonus for not camping a spot too long. It made exploring the world an intregal part of the game. My guild wasn't really into PvP'ing when we played. Even though the frontier was always fun to peek into now and then. To this day DAoC is still my all time favorite MMORPG. And this re-review is temping me to try it again after all these years.
DAoC was the game that pulled me away from EQ1. Really enjoyed it until the fiasco that was Trials of Atlantis. After Catacombs came out I tried to get back in to it, but they still hadn't fixed the Necromancer durability bug. I think once EA absorbed Mythic, they decided to just maintain status quo.
Still think it had the best pvp system of any mmo I've played.
It is arguably the greatest MMO ever made; others have copied this and that from it but somehow never equalled the totality. The PvP is still the best you'll find in an MMO. It is a magnificent, deep, awesome game.
But if one is used to and prefers easy-to-play button mashers, this won't be the rightgame. It's a skill-based game, and it's challenging. Not way too challlenging -- I had only played one MMO before it, and I found it exhilaratingly challenging, not frustrating in a this-is-too-hard-to-be-fun way. But then I like to learn. And it is a game where there is always more to learn -- not necessary to play the game, but it is a superb simulation of war, and is like war in that one can learn to be a good field soldier and stop there, or to advance learn small-group tactics and how to attack a defended position, how to defend one, how to use the terrain to advantage, how to get intel and why, how to rally and gather a full-scale army and then organize it and win a battle with 100s fighting on either side; how to travel solo in hostile territory and how to work as a member of a team, when to push and when not to overextend; all that and more. You don't have to learn it all, but the game is deep and real enough that you can stay a competent fighter at or below the non-com level, or you can aim to be the in-game equivalent of Alexander the Great (who was a fearsome hand-to-hand fighter who led from the front line as well as a general of such genius, he conquered the known world of his day with a tiny army without ever losing a single battle -- not campaign, BATTLE.) There was only one Alexander, but my point is there is a lot to master. You don't have to do more than learn how to play your own character adequately and follow orders if you don't want, and you'll still be able to play perfectly viably; but you can also learn the arts of war, which are many and require dedication, practice, intelligence, and study (from a mentor, from guides, to, I don't know, U.S. Army manuals on how to get a 12-man Spec. Forces ODA into and out of hostile territory undetected, alive, and mission accomplished.
It is a deep game. It is a great game. It has a great community. The lore is deep. The developers made the game better than it had to be; they obviously put heart and soul into it, and built in quality that 5 in a hundred gamers might recognize, for quality's own sake. (Example: In Albion, the England-equivalent, there are ghostly legionnaries in the Roman aqueducts and ruins of Roman forts. These are just NPC monsters to be killed. Yet they are named with a wide and even obscure range of historically authentic rank-titles of the real Roman Legions, and appropriately -- a decurion is easier to kill than a centurion than a primus pilus. Hibernian helmets are typically the Celtic jockey-styled helmets that a warrior in Dark-Ages Ireland would indeed have worn. The housing in Hibernia features are round-houses with a central hearth and roof supported by roof-trees. The housing in Midgaard looks like Norse longhouses. Stuff like that. Finn Mac Cool's name is spelled the Gaelic way, and he is id'd correctly as the leader of the Fianna, and if a Hib you can meet and say hello to him. Stuff like that. Takes loving care, and few would notice or wuit the game if corners had been cut, but the corners were not cut; the developers were craftsmen and wrought as though excellence mattered, not just rushing a game out and marketing it successfully to the masses and making sure it wasn't too hard for 12-year-olds and their grandmothers to play, or took them out of the comfort zone of the familiar and known by historical and cultural accuracy like the presence of Roman forts in England and what a trebuchet vs. a catapult is good for in a siege.)
It is not for children, extremely casual gamers, people who don't want to have do more in combat than press one or two buttons, people who dislike having to take time to master skills, or anyone who has a need to be good immediately and whose self-esteem will be crushed if they get killed a lot for a while if they choose to PvP in the Frontiers, where they risk running into players who have gotten so good with their characters, they'll have you dead in an embarrassingly short time. It's not a WoW clone, it's not cartoony, it's not a button-masher, you can't watch porn while you're in combat and come back and found you've won, female avatars do not have breasts that IRL would pull them into a permanent forward stoop, and female chest armor does not leave the breasts exposed.
Oh, and I think the graphics are beautiful. But you do need a video card, not the integrated graphics baloney that comes in an off-the shelf, standard, nongaming desktop/laptop from Dell, etc. Not an expensive one -- I popped a $55 Radeon 4570 from New Egg into my Dell 530s (very standard -- dual core, 3 G's RAM, only fits low-profile cards or I would have gotten a 4670 for $60 instead) and it handles the graphics for this and most games fine. And the game looks good enough that I've literally stopped in my tracks and backed my horse up to ride forward over the same ground just to repeat the experience of seeing over the crest of a mountain at a moment when the sun happened to be exactly where its light on the far side made the houses and trees and dirt road look more luminous than the sky, gloriously beautiful. And I love to scuba-dive, and travel to Atlantis sometimes just to look at the coral reefs and kelp gardens and underwater ruins while I kill mobs for XP. It's not Crysis, but it beats the heck out of WoW.
DAoC. The MMO that is so much better than it had to be, nobody has successfully bested it or even copied it to the same standard in 9 years of frenetic MMO development.
Not for everyone. For others, the best gaming experience they'll ever have. Try the free trial and see if it's for you.
DAoC, Parabellum, Sudden Attack occasionally, APB beta (though the driving controls are driving me so nuts, I may quit)
DAoC is a great game, even by today's standards. It should be more popular than it currently is though and i believe there are two major factors that scare new players away.
1. The Interface. When a player who has played WoW or EQ2 comes and tries DAoC they are going to be downright disgusted at the terrible interface. In my opinion the interface has cost DAoC countless potential subscribers. After so many expansions and content that's been added in the years i am really surprised they haven't updated what is, in my opinion, DAoC's weakest feature.
2. The subsription fee. It's just too high. It's the same as the big MMO's like WoW. It's no wonder new players don't want to stick around. Personally i think the cost is worth it, but when you consider how old the game is and it's low playerbase it makes you wonder why Mythic hasn't reduced the fee.
It's probably too late to think about re-vitalizing DAoC, but re-designing the UI could go a long way to attracting new players.
You can't figure out how to quit the game? I know it is a lot to ask someone to actually read, however, did you ever think of at least reading the slash commands at the herald? ... The command is /q And, you are complaining that it took you 5 days to reach level 50? Good luck doing that when the game first came out. Remember the junk drops? Except for crafting that is all we had.
With a few game breaks I have played DAoC since it came out.
It is an old game, however, it still has a great deal to offer, and as you pointed out, graphics have been upgraded. In my mind the two things that detract from it is SOME people on the VN boards whine too much [because they are too lazy to learn their class or simply want to kill other realm members easier] and Mythic is stupid enough listen and respond with nerfs, again and again.
An example of a nerf that impacted one class more than others was maximum shield block rate, it was dropped from 100% to 60%. To help make up the difference tanks can parry and can simply retrain to put more points into parry. Scouts cannot parry and therefore have to re-template gear in an effort to make an adjustment to improve ranged attacks; an expensive and time consuming proposition.
Another turn-off for me is the crafting system, although it has improved greatly since the game came out, I believe crafted items should provide some of the best magical abilities of any dropped or quest item. It takes a great deal of time to skill highly every craft in the game, and costly. While many people were killing and gaining realm points in RvR, I and others spent hour upon hour, day after day, week after week, getting skilled up in crafting.
I am a legendary grand master in EVERY craft. Should not those of us that sacrificed the time to craft, PvE for more platnum, to keep crafting, be rewarded in the same manner as those who spent time in RvR? Crafters and players should be rewarded with outstanding crafted gear. Crafted gear is very good, but not the best. Most people use it to round out templates.
As to needing the latest and greatest gear, such as needed in WoW, that is not true. One of my best characters is wearing a breast piece that I quested for after the release of the first expansion, and he still does very well in RvR. And, to be honest, Molvic toons can do well with nothing but crafted armor and weapons. Many people stayed in Molvic for years because it was a lot like the original game, simple.
I know that a lot of people got turned off when early expansions began changing the game, however, they could have accepted it for what it was, an opportunity for more exploration and better gear for taking the time to group and explore, and Master Levels were also achieved in the process.
Among the veterans there are basically two schools of thought, let people learn to level themselvs up with minimum help and the other camp is will to give a great deal to help new people.
I believe that people should learn to play their character and not be power leveled. I also believe new people should be given direction, where to hunt, what to hunt, why, and so on. I normally take time out from time to time and look for new people, usually not in a player created guild, to help and give free armor away up to level 20. New people do not know things, such as it is easier to level up a caster with crummy gear as opposed to a tank.
There are still places to explore and guilds to join. If a person is not in a guild they should visit www.camelotherald.com and find slash commands. There they will find lots of help, including how to locate people to group with. It is a good idea to find people 4 levels lower to 4 levels higher than you to join a group. For example if you are a level 20 to find someone to group with you could use the command /who 16 24 and then start sending /tell to players and ask if he or she can group.
What you stated in your review is true, many people simply stand around to be joined by higher level players so they can be power leveled. Keep in mind though, some may be waiting for the rest of the group to show up. Note that most dungeons/instances are level specific, if it is too high above or below your level you cannot get in.
Mytic could have a lot more people playing if they had a clue as to how to maintain and market a game. Dark Ages of Camelot is free - no charge for the expansions, but it is a huge download, so a fast connection is needed unless you are patient. After the download the fee is $14.95 a month, after your 14 day free trial period is up. I think Mythic recently had a 10 free period for reterning players.
As to the problem you mentioned, not having second account for a buff bot in New Frontiers, the NPC that gives buffs provide yellow buffs. Not the greatest, but still very good. Many people find that they get yellow buffs if there is only one cleric or one friar and one cleric in a group, for example.
You will find that many groups now let new people in, but you had better listen and learn. No group wants to keep a smart mouth or someone that does not listen. Thankfully most people that play DAoC are more mature than that.
Thank you for taking the time to take another look at this old classic and give us your views.
The game needs more people. Give it a try, many of you will like what you see.
EDIT: Sorry folks, I forgot to provide the link to the 14 day trial http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/ Note that you cannot use your old CDs to install this game, Mythic made a change in the game code when it began giving away the game, including all expansions. To my knowledge this issue has never been fixed.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5 SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
Even in it's heyday, DAoC had one of the best communities around. I'll forever remember my guild on Merlin/Hib, from our raids on the dragon in Sheeroe Hills to the frontiers where we'd join a massive group of people to take down an Albion or Midgard raid on our relic. There has been nothing as special as Dark Age of Camelot in the 10 years since it's launch, so I'm glad to know the player base is still strong even after all this time. Had my guild not left for EQ2, I'd still be there myself, happily grinding in Muire Tomb or on water beetles for hours on end. As it stands, I've killed the last five years with World of Warcraft, waiting for someone to successfully recreate the magic that was DAoC. It has to happen some day.
Originally posted by gravija01 Even in it's heyday, DAoC had one of the best communities around ... I've killed the last five years with World of Warcraft, waiting for someone to successfully recreate the magic that was DAoC. It has to happen some day.
I hope it happens as well, and I suspect that so do many others.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5 SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
If SOE/Mythic would just spend some $$ advertising this game in the gamer mags and online sites such as this one, I think they could revitalize this game with new players and make it viable again. A lot of what the author says is true. This game is all about RvR. The reason players still do PvE raids is to obtain gear for RvR, period. It's a shame really. I've returned to this game more times than I want to admit. I seem to always return to DAoC at some point after playing some other MMO.
The excitement of Thidranki is just too compelling, the thought of huning in Darkness Falls too enticing. *sigh* I am one of those that likes to experience the game however. Like the author mentioned, there is scant population in the grind area to give a meaningful leveling experience.
I've played MMO's with a certain group of people for years and only a few have even tried DAoC, much less given it a sufficient try to get to lvl 50. If we, as a group were to get together in this game I am certain that we would be able to have some high level excitement and have memorable experiences such as those we all had in my other favorite PvP game - Shadowbane.
After trying a few times, I just don't feel I can generate enough interest in DAoC. It's too bad because this is - overall - one of the very best games ever made.
DAoC was the first MMO I truly loved, and was thinking about giving it another go. A question though: if I no longer have my expansion CDs, can I download them somewhere or must I repurchase them?
You will redownload all the expensions, and even get a few new one for free (I think all expension are free now)... so have fun Now it's in the default installer.
If SOE/Mythic would just spend some $$ advertising this game in the gamer mags and online sites such as this one, I think they could revitalize this game with new players and make it viable again.
I really dont think SOE is in the habit of advertising for there competitions games, because, you know it makes no sense.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
All expansions are free and I will provide a link below.
Mythic has changed things up quite a bit ih the past year or two. Old CDs will no longer work, you need to download the client which will permit you to download the game. I suggest you do this over night while you are asleep, it ia a large download. No use wasting time while you are awake waiting for the download to complete.
All expansions are free, no cost for the game, just a monthly fee. New accounts get to play free for 14 days.
If you have an old account and remember your user name and password you can create a master account with that, or reactivate it.
People with characters on old servers may not be able to transfer to the new ones [required] Command is /freexfer ywain#
It may be too late to transfer. People here or on VN boards may be able to tell you.
For its unmatched alchemy between some very important aspects a MMO can have.
Think about one thing amongst others: equipment. When in (almost) all curent MMO, everybody is looking for the same ultimate equipment, DAoC succeded in having nobody with the same equipment. There is even a dedicated name for that in the game: spellcraft, or its short name, sc. The idea there is to think the equipment suiting your needs, by mixing loots from mobs, loots from quests, artifacts and crafted equipement with customized crafted enchantments to complete the whole thing. Yes, you read it right, all of them, at the end game. That is the true beauty of the game in my opinion. When you see games such like WoW where loots are king (nothing else matters) or Everquest where craft is king (nothing else matters), you start to see the accomplishment DAoC made in the equipment area, and more importantly in my opinion, in the customization area. I mean, we are speaking about (MMO)RPG, right? Where customization should help the gamer plays his/her role. Not about Everybody-Looks-For-The-Same-Equipment game, where the gamer has no real choice.
Another aspect where DAoC really shines in my opinion is the end game. As far as I can tell, it is the only game where the level cap is not the cap level. Let me explain. When you reach the max level, you can still advance your character with RvR ranks (PvP). I mean those ranks give you access to talents/skills which boost your character permanently. Somewhat like a regular level then. That boost is independant from your equipement, and consequently add another dimension to the customization area.
As opposed to what some people said in this thread, DAoC has never been a quest game. It is a grinding game, which favors leveling in group and is consequently not solo-friendly. By the way, at least DAoC is consistent in this area: always in group. Not like Wow, where the quest-based leveling system forces the gamer to level up solo, and later, the raid-based farming system forces the gamer to play in group. Go figure the logic...
In my opinion, Mythic failed in 2006. They should have worked on a new graphic engine to counter WoW and worked on a missing quest system, even basic, in order to offer an alternative to the grinding system.
Getting to level 50 is not nearly as difficult as it used to be. I recall one game reviewer that said a person would probably NEVER make it to level 50.
As to grind, if a person wants to solo through all of the champion levels [outside of RvR] it is not much fun. ML raids can still be found, but, not daily like they used to be.
Today most people use spellcrafting to round out a full set of gear. Some people run with every piece of high level dropped gear they can get their hands on, not everyone wants to go that route, so spellcrafting is still usefull. And, because there is a bonus cap on gear now, most people below level 50 have much of a choice but to have some spellcrafted gear.
I dissagree with Mythic, the best gear in the game should be crafted. If people want to slay dragons, that is fine with me, however, many people put hour after hour, day after day, week after week, and month after month getting all crafts in the game to legendary. I would rather be in a group bashing heads in RvR, thank you very much. And, busy crafters do not get to RvR as much, which forces them to lose realm points, not to mention the fun.
Yes, there are many things still right in DAoC. Unfortunately, Mythic has never figured out how great a product they made and they never figured out why people left the game. Then came their ultimate, Warhammer Online ... please, that game proves thay still have no clue.
Go back to DAoC where the real game is, give it a new UI [to satisfy picky players], and may be a little better graphics.
As to graphics, I was in a fight just a few days ago [been sick a few days] taking a keep and there was so much graphics [explosions, etc] that I could not see. I already had player names turned off, because there was a sea of names. I also had to turn off "effects" [explosions, etc], because I could not see anything once I got close enough to the hibs or mids that were trapped in the lord's room.
Anyway, lots of people do not know what they are missing by not playing DAoC.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5 SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
I played the game from 2003 to 2007 and went back to it on a couple of events since (all my mates left the game).
Today most people use spellcrafting to round out a full set of gear.
That was the case already for me and it is what I tried to say with "customized enchantments to complete the whole thing" (English is not my native language). Sure you don't have a full crafted equipment at the end of the game, but you need some to round it out. That is the important thing for me, meaning, craft is not useless at the end game (as opposed to so many MMO) but still it is not king (like some others). Perfect balance in my opinion.
most people below level 50 have much of a choice but to have some spellcrafted gear
That was the case already. I leveled up many alts and each was geared with full sc during the leveling phase. That plus the couple of crafted pieces in any end game gear is enough for me to make the craft worthwhile. But sure enough, reaching legendary was a very (very) long process.
busy crafters do not get to RvR as much, which forces them to lose realm points, not to mention the fun
You know, from my own experience, crafters are usually not the most hardcore PvPers. I mean, they don't want to be it in the first place. And if you think I'm wrong here, well, I would say you have to make choices: you can't do everything at the same time. In any case, that has never been a problem for me, and I was mainly a crafter (and a moderate PvPer, still enjoying the unmatched RvR world).
Yes, there are many things still right in DAoC. Unfortunately, Mythic has never figured out how great a product they made and they never figured out why people left the game. Then came their ultimate, Warhammer Online ... please, that game proves thay still have no clue.
You are so true! I think exactly the same. Actually I suspect there is no one from the DAoC team in the WAR team. Well, I should say I hope so. I can't imagine how blind they are otherwise.
Edit: sorry for the ugly quote format, but I have not been able to do multiple quotes properly with the provided forum editor.
Change the frontiers - Keep NF castles and such, no bridges leave that for bg's. Delete boat travel and bring back the Gothis (teleporters for mids) bring back the giant teleport pad (memories i swear). Delete agramon. Delete laby, thats what DF is for + its a lot more fun. Battlegrounds was the sh*t, its what introduced me to RvR which in turn made me fall inlove with the addicting game I spent countless memorable hours on, Still miss it.
Update the PVE system for new players - No quest quest quest quest ect ect ect.... Spread them out like they did epic quests and make each quest a lot more fun, longer, and better for the most part. Maybe an instance/quest as if your playing a great rpg (MASS Effect) with co-op, make it so people actually read or better yet make cut-scenes with dialog so you are drawn into your epic story or some type of story (Thats where BIOware comes in !!) ect... And instead of one big chunck of exp for that long entertaining and fun instance/quest, you give them an item with an xp boost that they can wear or whatever for a couple of days so that they are encouraged to grind with your group of friends, cuz all grind and no play makes me go crazy (although the boring grind brought up some very interesting and or funny convos lololo!), which in turn brings them to their next fun/entertaining epic quest/instance a bit faster and repeat. I guess some small quests in between to upgrade your gear and items... Improve combat maybe? Delete everything after SI, including classes and races. Maybe keep artifacts but make them a bit easyer to get, example; no scrolls!!! And having some classes being useless at some but very good at certain things is brilliant! it encourages and almost forces grouping!!! And having 3 factions 1vs1vs1 is also brilliant for a couple of reasons!! A lot of other stuff on my mind but this is long enough as it is. Sh*t.. this probably wont even be read! but its okay.
All in all, im sure almost all agree, DAoC was a great great game for the most part, I played it for 5-6yrs off and on even after trying other mmo's, but thats the thing, it WAS a great game, was....
Elementzero berserker rr6 7 or 8, Shadowblast suppression (funnest caster i have ever played btw) runemaster rr7 or 8. and Elementxero rr7 or 8 champ + countless low rr alts.
TOA ruined the game. I now play a version of DAOC that has the classic frontier zone and no TOA crap. Has great RvR, a more compelling PvE (no instances), no buff bots and a far better monthly price
Comments
It still amazes (and slightly depresses) me that DAoC looks so much better (to me, visually) than WAR. What happened, Mythic?
DAoC had the best PvE of any game I ever played. People seem to forget that it has a dedicated PvE server that was cooperative throughout the 3 realms. Like Mordred, one toon to see it all, but all PvE. The grouping combinations were awesome, and character roles became very interesting especially in the epic dungeons. There is also the /duel option to stem some bloodlust.
after getting the mmorpg news letter and seeing the last statement
If you love PvP and can put up with a purely one dimensional experience then absolutely try this game out. If you are however looking for an immersive MMORPG with great PvE, then ultimately this is not the game for you
I had to wonder how stupid the reviewer is, he clearly did not do a proper job on his research for this review since as others have stated there is a server dedicated to PvE, this reviewer will soon be working for a small town news paper doing movie reviews that he has obviously not seen. and while the leveling curve for DAoC has been made a flat line almost if the player chooses to actually level up a toon the old fashioned way they can, and there are players that still believe in playing a toon to 50 and doing the MLs and getting the arty credits instead of just buying them from the merchants in ToA.
Adam Tingle said:
It took me all of five days to reach level 50 with a mixture of questing, solo grind and also grouping with level 50's.
I took my time--I love alts--and didn't get my first level 50 until after a year playing DAoC back in the early days of the game. I love the "grind" that was spread all over the world--find a spot and kill mobs. Get tired of that spot then go exploring until you find other mobs at an appropriate level and kill them. You even got an XP bonus for not camping a spot too long. It made exploring the world an intregal part of the game. My guild wasn't really into PvP'ing when we played. Even though the frontier was always fun to peek into now and then. To this day DAoC is still my all time favorite MMORPG. And this re-review is temping me to try it again after all these years.
DAoC was the game that pulled me away from EQ1. Really enjoyed it until the fiasco that was Trials of Atlantis. After Catacombs came out I tried to get back in to it, but they still hadn't fixed the Necromancer durability bug. I think once EA absorbed Mythic, they decided to just maintain status quo.
Still think it had the best pvp system of any mmo I've played.
So, if I'm looking for a MMORPG to play, is this the one?
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.
DAoC, Parabellum, Sudden Attack occasionally, APB beta (though the driving controls are driving me so nuts, I may quit)
Odd, my comment disappeared.
DAoC, Parabellum, Sudden Attack occasionally, APB beta (though the driving controls are driving me so nuts, I may quit)
Depends.
It is arguably the greatest MMO ever made; others have copied this and that from it but somehow never equalled the totality. The PvP is still the best you'll find in an MMO. It is a magnificent, deep, awesome game.
But if one is used to and prefers easy-to-play button mashers, this won't be the rightgame. It's a skill-based game, and it's challenging. Not way too challlenging -- I had only played one MMO before it, and I found it exhilaratingly challenging, not frustrating in a this-is-too-hard-to-be-fun way. But then I like to learn. And it is a game where there is always more to learn -- not necessary to play the game, but it is a superb simulation of war, and is like war in that one can learn to be a good field soldier and stop there, or to advance learn small-group tactics and how to attack a defended position, how to defend one, how to use the terrain to advantage, how to get intel and why, how to rally and gather a full-scale army and then organize it and win a battle with 100s fighting on either side; how to travel solo in hostile territory and how to work as a member of a team, when to push and when not to overextend; all that and more. You don't have to learn it all, but the game is deep and real enough that you can stay a competent fighter at or below the non-com level, or you can aim to be the in-game equivalent of Alexander the Great (who was a fearsome hand-to-hand fighter who led from the front line as well as a general of such genius, he conquered the known world of his day with a tiny army without ever losing a single battle -- not campaign, BATTLE.) There was only one Alexander, but my point is there is a lot to master. You don't have to do more than learn how to play your own character adequately and follow orders if you don't want, and you'll still be able to play perfectly viably; but you can also learn the arts of war, which are many and require dedication, practice, intelligence, and study (from a mentor, from guides, to, I don't know, U.S. Army manuals on how to get a 12-man Spec. Forces ODA into and out of hostile territory undetected, alive, and mission accomplished.
It is a deep game. It is a great game. It has a great community. The lore is deep. The developers made the game better than it had to be; they obviously put heart and soul into it, and built in quality that 5 in a hundred gamers might recognize, for quality's own sake. (Example: In Albion, the England-equivalent, there are ghostly legionnaries in the Roman aqueducts and ruins of Roman forts. These are just NPC monsters to be killed. Yet they are named with a wide and even obscure range of historically authentic rank-titles of the real Roman Legions, and appropriately -- a decurion is easier to kill than a centurion than a primus pilus. Hibernian helmets are typically the Celtic jockey-styled helmets that a warrior in Dark-Ages Ireland would indeed have worn. The housing in Hibernia features are round-houses with a central hearth and roof supported by roof-trees. The housing in Midgaard looks like Norse longhouses. Stuff like that. Finn Mac Cool's name is spelled the Gaelic way, and he is id'd correctly as the leader of the Fianna, and if a Hib you can meet and say hello to him. Stuff like that. Takes loving care, and few would notice or wuit the game if corners had been cut, but the corners were not cut; the developers were craftsmen and wrought as though excellence mattered, not just rushing a game out and marketing it successfully to the masses and making sure it wasn't too hard for 12-year-olds and their grandmothers to play, or took them out of the comfort zone of the familiar and known by historical and cultural accuracy like the presence of Roman forts in England and what a trebuchet vs. a catapult is good for in a siege.)
It is not for children, extremely casual gamers, people who don't want to have do more in combat than press one or two buttons, people who dislike having to take time to master skills, or anyone who has a need to be good immediately and whose self-esteem will be crushed if they get killed a lot for a while if they choose to PvP in the Frontiers, where they risk running into players who have gotten so good with their characters, they'll have you dead in an embarrassingly short time. It's not a WoW clone, it's not cartoony, it's not a button-masher, you can't watch porn while you're in combat and come back and found you've won, female avatars do not have breasts that IRL would pull them into a permanent forward stoop, and female chest armor does not leave the breasts exposed.
Oh, and I think the graphics are beautiful. But you do need a video card, not the integrated graphics baloney that comes in an off-the shelf, standard, nongaming desktop/laptop from Dell, etc. Not an expensive one -- I popped a $55 Radeon 4570 from New Egg into my Dell 530s (very standard -- dual core, 3 G's RAM, only fits low-profile cards or I would have gotten a 4670 for $60 instead) and it handles the graphics for this and most games fine. And the game looks good enough that I've literally stopped in my tracks and backed my horse up to ride forward over the same ground just to repeat the experience of seeing over the crest of a mountain at a moment when the sun happened to be exactly where its light on the far side made the houses and trees and dirt road look more luminous than the sky, gloriously beautiful. And I love to scuba-dive, and travel to Atlantis sometimes just to look at the coral reefs and kelp gardens and underwater ruins while I kill mobs for XP. It's not Crysis, but it beats the heck out of WoW.
DAoC. The MMO that is so much better than it had to be, nobody has successfully bested it or even copied it to the same standard in 9 years of frenetic MMO development.
Not for everyone. For others, the best gaming experience they'll ever have. Try the free trial and see if it's for you.
DAoC, Parabellum, Sudden Attack occasionally, APB beta (though the driving controls are driving me so nuts, I may quit)
DAoC is a great game, even by today's standards. It should be more popular than it currently is though and i believe there are two major factors that scare new players away.
1. The Interface. When a player who has played WoW or EQ2 comes and tries DAoC they are going to be downright disgusted at the terrible interface. In my opinion the interface has cost DAoC countless potential subscribers. After so many expansions and content that's been added in the years i am really surprised they haven't updated what is, in my opinion, DAoC's weakest feature.
2. The subsription fee. It's just too high. It's the same as the big MMO's like WoW. It's no wonder new players don't want to stick around. Personally i think the cost is worth it, but when you consider how old the game is and it's low playerbase it makes you wonder why Mythic hasn't reduced the fee.
It's probably too late to think about re-vitalizing DAoC, but re-designing the UI could go a long way to attracting new players.
You can't figure out how to quit the game? I know it is a lot to ask someone to actually read, however, did you ever think of at least reading the slash commands at the herald? ... The command is /q And, you are complaining that it took you 5 days to reach level 50? Good luck doing that when the game first came out. Remember the junk drops? Except for crafting that is all we had.
With a few game breaks I have played DAoC since it came out.
It is an old game, however, it still has a great deal to offer, and as you pointed out, graphics have been upgraded. In my mind the two things that detract from it is SOME people on the VN boards whine too much [because they are too lazy to learn their class or simply want to kill other realm members easier] and Mythic is stupid enough listen and respond with nerfs, again and again.
An example of a nerf that impacted one class more than others was maximum shield block rate, it was dropped from 100% to 60%. To help make up the difference tanks can parry and can simply retrain to put more points into parry. Scouts cannot parry and therefore have to re-template gear in an effort to make an adjustment to improve ranged attacks; an expensive and time consuming proposition.
Another turn-off for me is the crafting system, although it has improved greatly since the game came out, I believe crafted items should provide some of the best magical abilities of any dropped or quest item. It takes a great deal of time to skill highly every craft in the game, and costly. While many people were killing and gaining realm points in RvR, I and others spent hour upon hour, day after day, week after week, getting skilled up in crafting.
I am a legendary grand master in EVERY craft. Should not those of us that sacrificed the time to craft, PvE for more platnum, to keep crafting, be rewarded in the same manner as those who spent time in RvR? Crafters and players should be rewarded with outstanding crafted gear. Crafted gear is very good, but not the best. Most people use it to round out templates.
As to needing the latest and greatest gear, such as needed in WoW, that is not true. One of my best characters is wearing a breast piece that I quested for after the release of the first expansion, and he still does very well in RvR. And, to be honest, Molvic toons can do well with nothing but crafted armor and weapons. Many people stayed in Molvic for years because it was a lot like the original game, simple.
I know that a lot of people got turned off when early expansions began changing the game, however, they could have accepted it for what it was, an opportunity for more exploration and better gear for taking the time to group and explore, and Master Levels were also achieved in the process.
Among the veterans there are basically two schools of thought, let people learn to level themselvs up with minimum help and the other camp is will to give a great deal to help new people.
I believe that people should learn to play their character and not be power leveled. I also believe new people should be given direction, where to hunt, what to hunt, why, and so on. I normally take time out from time to time and look for new people, usually not in a player created guild, to help and give free armor away up to level 20. New people do not know things, such as it is easier to level up a caster with crummy gear as opposed to a tank.
There are still places to explore and guilds to join. If a person is not in a guild they should visit www.camelotherald.com and find slash commands. There they will find lots of help, including how to locate people to group with. It is a good idea to find people 4 levels lower to 4 levels higher than you to join a group. For example if you are a level 20 to find someone to group with you could use the command /who 16 24 and then start sending /tell to players and ask if he or she can group.
What you stated in your review is true, many people simply stand around to be joined by higher level players so they can be power leveled. Keep in mind though, some may be waiting for the rest of the group to show up. Note that most dungeons/instances are level specific, if it is too high above or below your level you cannot get in.
Mytic could have a lot more people playing if they had a clue as to how to maintain and market a game. Dark Ages of Camelot is free - no charge for the expansions, but it is a huge download, so a fast connection is needed unless you are patient. After the download the fee is $14.95 a month, after your 14 day free trial period is up. I think Mythic recently had a 10 free period for reterning players.
As to the problem you mentioned, not having second account for a buff bot in New Frontiers, the NPC that gives buffs provide yellow buffs. Not the greatest, but still very good. Many people find that they get yellow buffs if there is only one cleric or one friar and one cleric in a group, for example.
You will find that many groups now let new people in, but you had better listen and learn. No group wants to keep a smart mouth or someone that does not listen. Thankfully most people that play DAoC are more mature than that.
Thank you for taking the time to take another look at this old classic and give us your views.
The game needs more people. Give it a try, many of you will like what you see.
EDIT: Sorry folks, I forgot to provide the link to the 14 day trial http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/ Note that you cannot use your old CDs to install this game, Mythic made a change in the game code when it began giving away the game, including all expansions. To my knowledge this issue has never been fixed.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
Even in it's heyday, DAoC had one of the best communities around. I'll forever remember my guild on Merlin/Hib, from our raids on the dragon in Sheeroe Hills to the frontiers where we'd join a massive group of people to take down an Albion or Midgard raid on our relic. There has been nothing as special as Dark Age of Camelot in the 10 years since it's launch, so I'm glad to know the player base is still strong even after all this time. Had my guild not left for EQ2, I'd still be there myself, happily grinding in Muire Tomb or on water beetles for hours on end. As it stands, I've killed the last five years with World of Warcraft, waiting for someone to successfully recreate the magic that was DAoC. It has to happen some day.
I hope it happens as well, and I suspect that so do many others.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
If SOE/Mythic would just spend some $$ advertising this game in the gamer mags and online sites such as this one, I think they could revitalize this game with new players and make it viable again. A lot of what the author says is true. This game is all about RvR. The reason players still do PvE raids is to obtain gear for RvR, period. It's a shame really. I've returned to this game more times than I want to admit. I seem to always return to DAoC at some point after playing some other MMO.
The excitement of Thidranki is just too compelling, the thought of huning in Darkness Falls too enticing. *sigh* I am one of those that likes to experience the game however. Like the author mentioned, there is scant population in the grind area to give a meaningful leveling experience.
I've played MMO's with a certain group of people for years and only a few have even tried DAoC, much less given it a sufficient try to get to lvl 50. If we, as a group were to get together in this game I am certain that we would be able to have some high level excitement and have memorable experiences such as those we all had in my other favorite PvP game - Shadowbane.
After trying a few times, I just don't feel I can generate enough interest in DAoC. It's too bad because this is - overall - one of the very best games ever made.
You will redownload all the expensions, and even get a few new one for free (I think all expension are free now)... so have fun
Now it's in the default installer.
I really dont think SOE is in the habit of advertising for there competitions games, because, you know it makes no sense.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
All expansions are free and I will provide a link below.
Mythic has changed things up quite a bit ih the past year or two. Old CDs will no longer work, you need to download the client which will permit you to download the game. I suggest you do this over night while you are asleep, it ia a large download. No use wasting time while you are awake waiting for the download to complete.
All expansions are free, no cost for the game, just a monthly fee. New accounts get to play free for 14 days.
If you have an old account and remember your user name and password you can create a master account with that, or reactivate it.
People with characters on old servers may not be able to transfer to the new ones [required] Command is /freexfer ywain#
It may be too late to transfer. People here or on VN boards may be able to tell you.
Download at
http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
Best MMO ever in my opinion.
For its unmatched alchemy between some very important aspects a MMO can have.
Think about one thing amongst others: equipment. When in (almost) all curent MMO, everybody is looking for the same ultimate equipment, DAoC succeded in having nobody with the same equipment. There is even a dedicated name for that in the game: spellcraft, or its short name, sc. The idea there is to think the equipment suiting your needs, by mixing loots from mobs, loots from quests, artifacts and crafted equipement with customized crafted enchantments to complete the whole thing. Yes, you read it right, all of them, at the end game. That is the true beauty of the game in my opinion. When you see games such like WoW where loots are king (nothing else matters) or Everquest where craft is king (nothing else matters), you start to see the accomplishment DAoC made in the equipment area, and more importantly in my opinion, in the customization area. I mean, we are speaking about (MMO)RPG, right? Where customization should help the gamer plays his/her role. Not about Everybody-Looks-For-The-Same-Equipment game, where the gamer has no real choice.
Another aspect where DAoC really shines in my opinion is the end game. As far as I can tell, it is the only game where the level cap is not the cap level. Let me explain. When you reach the max level, you can still advance your character with RvR ranks (PvP). I mean those ranks give you access to talents/skills which boost your character permanently. Somewhat like a regular level then. That boost is independant from your equipement, and consequently add another dimension to the customization area.
As opposed to what some people said in this thread, DAoC has never been a quest game. It is a grinding game, which favors leveling in group and is consequently not solo-friendly. By the way, at least DAoC is consistent in this area: always in group. Not like Wow, where the quest-based leveling system forces the gamer to level up solo, and later, the raid-based farming system forces the gamer to play in group. Go figure the logic...
In my opinion, Mythic failed in 2006. They should have worked on a new graphic engine to counter WoW and worked on a missing quest system, even basic, in order to offer an alternative to the grinding system.
Has it been a while since you played DAoC?
Getting to level 50 is not nearly as difficult as it used to be. I recall one game reviewer that said a person would probably NEVER make it to level 50.
As to grind, if a person wants to solo through all of the champion levels [outside of RvR] it is not much fun. ML raids can still be found, but, not daily like they used to be.
Today most people use spellcrafting to round out a full set of gear. Some people run with every piece of high level dropped gear they can get their hands on, not everyone wants to go that route, so spellcrafting is still usefull. And, because there is a bonus cap on gear now, most people below level 50 have much of a choice but to have some spellcrafted gear.
I dissagree with Mythic, the best gear in the game should be crafted. If people want to slay dragons, that is fine with me, however, many people put hour after hour, day after day, week after week, and month after month getting all crafts in the game to legendary. I would rather be in a group bashing heads in RvR, thank you very much. And, busy crafters do not get to RvR as much, which forces them to lose realm points, not to mention the fun.
Yes, there are many things still right in DAoC. Unfortunately, Mythic has never figured out how great a product they made and they never figured out why people left the game. Then came their ultimate, Warhammer Online ... please, that game proves thay still have no clue.
Go back to DAoC where the real game is, give it a new UI [to satisfy picky players], and may be a little better graphics.
As to graphics, I was in a fight just a few days ago [been sick a few days] taking a keep and there was so much graphics [explosions, etc] that I could not see. I already had player names turned off, because there was a sea of names. I also had to turn off "effects" [explosions, etc], because I could not see anything once I got close enough to the hibs or mids that were trapped in the lord's room.
Anyway, lots of people do not know what they are missing by not playing DAoC.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
From swing848
Has it been a while since you played DAoC?
I played the game from 2003 to 2007 and went back to it on a couple of events since (all my mates left the game).
Today most people use spellcrafting to round out a full set of gear.
That was the case already for me and it is what I tried to say with "customized enchantments to complete the whole thing" (English is not my native language). Sure you don't have a full crafted equipment at the end of the game, but you need some to round it out. That is the important thing for me, meaning, craft is not useless at the end game (as opposed to so many MMO) but still it is not king (like some others). Perfect balance in my opinion.
most people below level 50 have much of a choice but to have some spellcrafted gear
That was the case already. I leveled up many alts and each was geared with full sc during the leveling phase. That plus the couple of crafted pieces in any end game gear is enough for me to make the craft worthwhile. But sure enough, reaching legendary was a very (very) long process.
busy crafters do not get to RvR as much, which forces them to lose realm points, not to mention the fun
You know, from my own experience, crafters are usually not the most hardcore PvPers. I mean, they don't want to be it in the first place. And if you think I'm wrong here, well, I would say you have to make choices: you can't do everything at the same time. In any case, that has never been a problem for me, and I was mainly a crafter (and a moderate PvPer, still enjoying the unmatched RvR world).
Yes, there are many things still right in DAoC. Unfortunately, Mythic has never figured out how great a product they made and they never figured out why people left the game. Then came their ultimate, Warhammer Online ... please, that game proves thay still have no clue.
You are so true! I think exactly the same. Actually I suspect there is no one from the DAoC team in the WAR team. Well, I should say I hope so. I can't imagine how blind they are otherwise.
Edit: sorry for the ugly quote format, but I have not been able to do multiple quotes properly with the provided forum editor.
I say no to DAoC2, instead revamp DAoC1
From what I remember.
Change the frontiers - Keep NF castles and such, no bridges leave that for bg's. Delete boat travel and bring back the Gothis (teleporters for mids) bring back the giant teleport pad (memories i swear). Delete agramon. Delete laby, thats what DF is for + its a lot more fun. Battlegrounds was the sh*t, its what introduced me to RvR which in turn made me fall inlove with the addicting game I spent countless memorable hours on, Still miss it.
Update the PVE system for new players - No quest quest quest quest ect ect ect.... Spread them out like they did epic quests and make each quest a lot more fun, longer, and better for the most part. Maybe an instance/quest as if your playing a great rpg (MASS Effect) with co-op, make it so people actually read or better yet make cut-scenes with dialog so you are drawn into your epic story or some type of story (Thats where BIOware comes in !!) ect... And instead of one big chunck of exp for that long entertaining and fun instance/quest, you give them an item with an xp boost that they can wear or whatever for a couple of days so that they are encouraged to grind with your group of friends, cuz all grind and no play makes me go crazy (although the boring grind brought up some very interesting and or funny convos lololo!), which in turn brings them to their next fun/entertaining epic quest/instance a bit faster and repeat. I guess some small quests in between to upgrade your gear and items... Improve combat maybe? Delete everything after SI, including classes and races. Maybe keep artifacts but make them a bit easyer to get, example; no scrolls!!! And having some classes being useless at some but very good at certain things is brilliant! it encourages and almost forces grouping!!! And having 3 factions 1vs1vs1 is also brilliant for a couple of reasons!! A lot of other stuff on my mind but this is long enough as it is. Sh*t.. this probably wont even be read! but its okay.
All in all, im sure almost all agree, DAoC was a great great game for the most part, I played it for 5-6yrs off and on even after trying other mmo's, but thats the thing, it WAS a great game, was....
Elementzero berserker rr6 7 or 8, Shadowblast suppression (funnest caster i have ever played btw) runemaster rr7 or 8. and Elementxero rr7 or 8 champ + countless low rr alts.
TOA ruined the game. I now play a version of DAOC that has the classic frontier zone and no TOA crap. Has great RvR, a more compelling PvE (no instances), no buff bots and a far better monthly price