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Will dynamic events reward people based on how much they contributed?
mrmeloni
Member UncommonPosts: 236
Will players who do exceptionally good in dynamic events earn better rewards than those who slacked?
Like in warhammer public quests, the top scoring players earned better equipment rewards and more xp if i remember correctly.
In the recent dynamic event interview they stated all players would be rewarded the same, and that there would be no loot to pick up. Yet the shatterer video shows the player being assigned silver for his level of contribution - Then there's the huge chest of loot that spawned when the shatterer was defeated.
If all players are rewarded equally, it removes the fun from the event, there's no incentive to try - Many players will just stand around doing nothing and doing the bare minimum to complete the event. When there's great rewards for the top achievers there is something to work for, and in a sense, it's a kind of pvp, you're competing with other players for rewards, just not directly. I found this fun in warhammer public quests.
Comments
i agree with you. and i think they will do it with some events...but not with all.
It's kinda cruel to kill the innocent monsters standing in the fields picking daisies. -GW2-
Hmmm, as far as I've seen there were only 3 stages of rewards with DE's so far, bronze, silver and gold, that depended upon the level of participation in the event you had.
But this was only to prevent that people just would stand there, doing nothing and still be rewarded equally, or people who dropped by in the last minute to get the same reward as people who had been there the whole time.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bad idea... completely hated it in WAR. The support classes especially healers always get screwed on the "contributed the most" reward system.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
What they meant was that everyone who gets a gold participation reward, would earn the same amount of karma, gold, and exp, same with silver and bronze.
There arent any item drops cause they dont want players to manipulate events to either pass or fail so they can get a specific item from one of the events in the chain.
The game checks if people are or arent participating in the event and not only rewards accordingly but also scales the event. Really though why would anyone stay in an event and not do anything anyway, sounds kinda boring to me.
I do see a problem though with people doing nothing in an event as a form of griefing, like the dynamic event scales up, they keep out of the heat of combat making it harder for you to survive it. Won't happen that often though, I guess.
The WAR topscorer thing, hmm, I don't know, sounds like this goes against the 'community building' idea that ANet folks have in mind with DE's and such: because if topscorers get better rewards in events, it creates strife and competition and people not wanting other competing folks around in a DE, in order for them to get the best reward possible. Maybe when it's just karma and only a minor difference. Still, it doesn't seem to fit ANet's non-exclusive philosophy for the DE's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There are 3 tiers of rewards -- Bronze, Silver, and Gold. The tier is determined by your level of participation. Everyone on the bronze tier gets the same reward, silver gets the same reward, and gold gets the same reward as everyone else on the same tier. You cannot grief an event by just standing around. You have to be actively engaged in the event in order for it to scale up, to prevent griefing. Anet stated in an interview at GC or PAX that it only takes a couple seconds before the event starts to scale down, depending on the event. If the event happens in waves, the event will be scaled down the next wave.
There's three levels of participation like someone else said. Bronze, silver, and gold. The game checks to see if you're doing support as well, so it isn't based solely on the amount of damage you do. From what it looks like, it's easy to get the maximum reward as long as you're participating through about 75%+ of the event.
As to the people scaling it up and then going afk to grief people and make the event impossible to beat, Anet has already addressed this issue by making the event scale back down if people stop participating.
Edit: Ninja'd. Agree with the above.
Book and Link's posts above me are exactly correct. Anet has forsaw that issue and designed the system to automatically check for activity levels from players - so you won't be struggling solo against a beefed up boss while 20 people sit there afk. The requirements for getting gold and silver levels of participation are high enough that you basically need to be at your keyboard, trying to help somehow.
To give a rough example:
Bronze: Maybe you wandered by toward the end of the event, or tossed in a couple spells/rezzed a couple people between eating a sandwich and watching a movie.
Silver: You came in partway through the event but participated fully until it was over or you came in at the beginning and did a notable amount, but then afked the last third of it.
Gold: You were present the whole event, or the vast majority of it, and fully participated the whole time you were there.
Right, but that was in WAR. They could change that by having it so damage you heal that was done to players by enemies from the event would count toward contribution.
I'd like to point something out.
Healers have it the easiest in the system war has for renown, influence, xp, and contribution.
The system mythic uses for contribution is totally and completely messed up. There really isn't a way to always do well at it as any class or doing anything specifc. It's just broke.
The other three systems, since they are working, healers easily get the most of the three easily, while classes that rely on melee damage and can't take much punishment (melee dps), get hosed.
If GW2 uses a contribution system, it needs to work. There should be a way that people can understand how to contribute more, and not just "hope for the best".
Basically is like this.
Gold
Silver
Bronze
Everyone that gets gold will get's the top amount
Silver the medium amount
And Bronze the lowest amount
Its completely different than the ramdom number generator of the PQ's
The only reward to DE is money, experience and karma.
You trade Karma for Items.
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
So the tiered system works, but it could be more fun if there was more levels of tiers. Perhaps the No.1 scoring player is rewarded with something a bit more? Another tier would be good too, like diamond, if you earn diamond it means you came in the top 3 to 5 players for contribution and get a better reward.
This gets you something to shoot for other than just playing averagely at each event knowing you'll get gold no matter what.
When you have loads of random players completing an event together, there really has got to be incentive for players to try hard, else people are going to get bored. The dynamic events will soon become boring and repetitive like this. It's no fun if all you can earn is gold and most people earn tnat title just by being there for the whole event and playing averagely.
Well I think that will end up being based on the type of event, and if the event is successful. I suppose players could show up, play averagely and lose, but still get gold rewards, but that doesn't mean that they are successful in playing the game.
I think that is a good point, having something to strive for other then just "being there". You want to make sure the game is challenging so that players who are there are doing their best, and not just doing whats required to get their reward. You have to WANT to push back the raiders, not just fight them until the event is over.
I think it will all depend on the event, and the type of people you find yourself being around. It would also depend on the classes you find with you I suppose. This is where I see balancing the Dynamic events by scaling them to be pretty tough. Sometimes you may find a player whos just not good at their class and causes more harm then good on the field. This is just something we'll have to see once the game is up and in full swing.
I think that's something Anet is trying to avoid. Creating that "elitist" group. In fact, I think it goes against Anets philosophy. They don't want to reward you because you put the most time in. They want to reward you because of your skill. They don't want other players to have an unfair advantage over someone else just because they got in the 'top scorer" group. I like the sounds of the current system. It rewards you based on your level of participation, but does not give one player in the same tier an unfair advantage. Everyone gets the same thing as everyone else in that tier.
It's not really a title, just a level of reward. It resets as soon as you start a new event.
Wont be any dedicated healers in GW2. Each char will have their OWN healing spells. Up to you to take care of that.
My opinion is that they're taking a serious risk of making their game too boring. These dynamic events will be fun for a short while at best the way they're taking it. It's actually very easy to see that this is exactly how it will pan out. Dynamic events are just a slightly better public quest, minus the reason to actually put more than an average at best amount of effort in - Boring is all I can say. (easily fixed if they wern't so stubborn on this everyone should be equal crap - we're supposed to be playing a competitive game for christ sake, remove the competitiveness, and you have a very boring game.
I don't see how questing in other MMORPG's is competitive, unless you consider those other MMORPG's boring too.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If what they say in this thread about gold, silver and bronze is true, then there may be hope for this dynamic system. Being there for at least 75% of the fight and fully contributing the entire (regardless of job in the party) you get a gold share of the loot is fair. The only problem is see is the epic loot that drops. Is it just one or two epic pieces of loot that drops and hope for the best, or is it a smallish percentage that everyone who qualified gold gets said epic item for their character? I think everyone who was gold against a certain open field boss should get equal piece of the action. Save the really really epic gears where only one person gets a drop piece for the long dungeon raids.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I do consider those other games boring. In Warhammer public quests were one of my favourite things but only when they involved a lot of people and there was some good reward to compete for. It's the public quests with rewards not worth trying for that were boring. I quit Warhammer long ago.
Good point here.
DE's seem like a good solution to solve usual quest problems by:
1. Equal rewards for proportional contribution 2. Scaling for player numbers & damage output and scaling back down very responsively.
But how do DE's scale for player perfomance? ie above quote...
There has been mention that the Energy mechanic is part of this feedback for the player's prowess in combat, so maybe dissociating reward from "proportional to performance" so that the above outcomes reduces farming/player manipulation of events for rewards is achieved and players can still take individual contentment from their combat (damage, support, control) by looking at their health ball and energy surplus? Maybe that is part of the answer, there?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
There is no epic loot, events don't reward equipment, just points that you use to buy equipment, xp, and money.
Most people are going to get gold, all you need to do is be present and use your skills and you'll get gold, it sounds quite pathetic really. It will be fun for all of 5 minutes. The idea behind what they are doing is good, but without some incentive to try hard, which would add some spice to each event it will soon get old.
If you like PvP and usually play on PvP servers, then it's good to know that you're essentially be playing on a PvE server. For those who like PvP, there'll be the PvP arenas and of course the World vs World PvP that spreads out over several areas (at least 5), of which they said that you could level all the way up to level cap in there.
Regarding the gold reward, they stated that everyone gets the same to prevent the problems you see in other MMORPG's, that only maybe a few get the best reward while the rest who worked as hard are left with not much.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That makes no sense, if you have a system designed to reward the people who did the most work with better rewards, then how can the rest claim they worked as hard when they obviously didn't? Just because the system Warhammer used was bugged it doesn't mean it will be in GW2.
I didn't like GW so I won't be playing GW2. I don't buy this whole "every thing you do, every decision you make" will have permanent and lasting affects in the game world. It's an MMORPG, in two hours after launch, the entire server's NPC population would be destroyed. Then what? Saying that, the dynamic loot system sounds very interesting and I can see the potential. I would love to see how it pans out. If it succeeds, I can see other games implementing something like it.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am wondering how they will get the right proportionality between: Skill α Challenge
Maybe player cooperation is the side-step answer? Or will there be some harder DEs than others?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem